Looking for a pilgrim

[Anik2001]

Radio Camino, we are looking for a pilgrim walking on the Portuguese from Lisbonne/ Fatima/Porto. He’s a Canadian from Quebec named Jean-Marc (moderator edited out last name).
His wife Monique had no contact with him since the 1st of June. He was supposed to start on the 2nd of June from Lisbonne to Fatima, then Porto to Santiago.

It’s not his first camino, but he has never been so long without giving some news to his wife and she is very worried. If anyone has met him on the way, can you let us know where and how he was doing, please?
Thank you and Buen camino.
Anik

 

[wisepilgrim]

What is the correct procedure in cases like this?
I ask because I can envision a scenario, however uncommon it might be, that a pilgrim does not want to share their whereabouts. If we see Jean-Marc, Do we always contact the person that reported him as out of contact? Or do we remind him to call home instead?

 

[Anik2001]

What is the correct procedure in cases like this?
I ask because I can envision a scenario, however uncommon it might be, that a pilgrim does not want to share their whereabouts. If we see Jean-Marc, Do we always contact the person that reported him as out of contact? Or do we remind him to call home instead?

I guess letting him know that people are worried at home would be a good start, but letting his family know that he is doing fine would maybe stop them from calling the authorities and starting a big search for nothing?

 

[MinaKamina]

What is the correct procedure in cases like this?
I ask because I can envision a scenario, however uncommon it might be, that a pilgrim does not want to share their whereabouts. If we see Jean-Marc, Do we always contact the person that reported him as out of contact? Or do we remind him to call home instead?

Somewhere in Canada, a woman worries about her husband, and you set out to make life more complicated for her.

Please, be the reason someone smiles today.

 

[dougfitz]

What is the correct procedure in cases like this?
I ask because I can envision a scenario, however uncommon it might be, that a pilgrim does not want to share their whereabouts. If we see Jean-Marc, Do we always contact the person that reported him as out of contact? Or do we remind him to call home instead?

Somewhere in Canada, a woman worries about her husband, and you set out to make life more complicated for her.

I think, it is perfectly reasonable to be cautious about sharing information about another pilgrim with someone whose bona fides haven't been clearly established. My view would be to let the pilgrim, Jean-Marc in this case, know that there are people trying to contact him. He could be asked if he wants information about his location, etc shared on this forum.

I don't buy the argument that the authorities shouldn't be involved. All nations have consular services that are there to help their citizens when they are travelling, and their families. This is likely to bring into action a more widespread and consistent effort to locate the person than we could muster as forum members. He might be found quickly, which would be great. If something untoward has happened to him, getting the authorities involved early might lead to a far better outcome than we could muster.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Perhaps he wants his own space.
I suspect he is a big boy and can look after himself. I am sure he will contact his wife in the fullness of time.

 

[wisepilgrim]

Somewhere in Canada, a woman worries about her husband, and you set out to make life more complicated for her.

Please, be the reason someone smiles today.

Or perhaps, somewhere in Portugal a man seeks solitude or escape from a difficult life situation and we are interfering. I am glad to see @dougfitz agree, and his comment about involving the authorities is spot on... if it is a real worry, contact the real helpers.

 

[Lhollo]

Not trying to cause trouble here because I see both sides well. I do think the response might be different if it were a woman who had not made contact, and probably with good reason. I mention this view of the matter only as something to consider.

 

[dougfitz]

Not trying to cause trouble here because I see both sides well. I do think the response might be different if it were a woman who had not made contact, and probably with good reason. I mention this view of the matter only as something to consider.

I don't think so, at least not on my part. I have made the same or nearly identical response to this issue before, and I will do so again should someone ask us to pass on information about the location or well-being of another pilgrim.

It is certainly appropriate to help by letting the pilgrim in question know that there have been inquiries about them. Perhaps one might even suggest that they contact their family, although that is clearly their personal choice, and I wouldn't be pressing anyone in that regard.

 

[Bristle Boy]

I don't think so, at least not on my part. I have made the same or nearly identical response to this issue before, and I will do so again should someone ask us to pass on information about the location or well-being of another pilgrim.

It is certainly appropriate to help by letting the pilgrim in question know that there have been inquiries about them. Perhaps one might even suggest that they contact their family, although that is clearly their personal choice, and I wouldn't be pressing anyone in that regard.

I would agree. I think most pilgrims from other countries carry sufficient identification on them should anything serious happen that would allow notification to the next of kin.
Your point is well made whether male or female. Just a gentle message would suffice and then leave it.

 

[Lhollo]

Yes, I agree that people need to be left in peace on the Camino, and that if this person is found, I quiet word is all that’d be needed. But isn’t this a case of someone potentially having disappeared? Am I misunderstanding it? If my partner thought I was in a good frame of mind when I went off on a Camino alone, and I then went uncharacteristically silent… well, he’d probably have contacted the police within 24 hours, tbh! I’m not sure why there’s been a delay with that procedure in this case, but maybe it’s suggestive of the partner in question not actually being very worried. By contrast, an uncharacteristically off-radar woman would be a huge concern normally, which is why I came at it from that angle as well as others.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

But isn’t this a case of someone potentially having disappeared? Am I misunderstanding it? If my partner thought I was in a good frame of mind when I went off on a Camino alone, and I then went uncharacteristically silent… well, he’d probably have contacted the police within 24 hours,

This is the angle I come from as well and agree.
No problem leaving said person alone, male or female, if you happen upon them in walking.
It is the disappearance factor that can cause worry to the one at home...how much time that loved one decides to wait to contact authorities will vary as it is subjective in each situation.

 

[Anik2001]

Since I am not his wife, only a fellow member of the same group (Association Du Quebec à Compostelle), I will let her know your suggestions and she will decide what she wants to do from here. Thank you all.

 

[wayfarer]

Not trying to cause trouble here because I see both sides well. I do think the response might be different if it were a woman who had not made contact, and probably with good reason. I mention this view of the matter only as something to consider.

We had similar responses as above when Denise Thiem went missing and her brother contacted the forum, did she want her own space, was her brother really her brother etc etc, and we all saw how that ended.
If you see Jean Marc tell him to contact home asap before he has the authorities searching for him, his wife's worry trumps his space IMO. Don't overthink the situation with political correctness. Only someone who has had family missing will understand the gut gripping worry this causes.

 

[Lhollo]

We had similar responses as above when Denise Thiem went missing and her brother contacted the forum, did she want her own space, was her brother really her brother etc etc, and we all saw how that ended.
If you see Jean Marc tell him to contact home asap before he has the authorities searching for him, his wife's worry trumps his space IMO. Don't overthink the situation with political correctness. Only someone who has had family missing will understand the gut gripping worry this causes.

The more I think about this, the more concerning I find it. I didn’t know that Denise’s brother tried to contact her through this forum (before going to the police?).

Maybe there’s a natural tendency to think a pilgrim may just need space, and therefore to not act, when in other situations one would do so? I do know that the flip side is that, hopefully in most cases, the concern would not be warranted. I think there should be some caution used in buying into the idea that a man is a ‘big boy’ and probably fine. A quick scan of recent posts here should put paid to that generalisation.

Might there be an easily addressed problem with relatives abroad not knowing how to contact the relevant Spanish authorities? I know the info is available elsewhere here but, as far as I can see, the lady in question hasn’t been given that information in this thread?

I’d be looking at AlertCops, but also wondering what best to do in terms of whether Regional/National/Guardia Civil would be best. If I didn’t know any Spanish, that would be a concern as well.

Perhaps someone else could clarify this?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

The fact is most missing people turn up on their own and probably have their own reasons for taking time out. It's fine to say hello and mention it if you see this guy, but if he doesn't want to contact his family that's his business.

 

[wayfarer]

If a family member of mine dropped off the radar and their excuse was that they just didn't want to bother to make contact I'd be telling them to stay on Camino.

 

[Lhollo]

For the record: if ever a family member of mine comes on here and says I’m on Camino and have gone radio silent, it means I am in trouble, so please please help that person. Again, I find this a troubling thread. Sorry, but I do, and that comes from a place of having been assaulted by a stranger in the past.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

If a family member of mine dropped off the radar and their excuse was that they just didn't want to bother to make contact I'd be telling them to stay on Camino.

Fair enough. I make a point of not contacting people because I don't like the expectation that you have to stay in touch all the time.

I remember a case of an "elderly" British couple who were reported missing by their family a few years ago and were quite perturbed at having their holidays interrupted.

No-one should have to keep in touch if they don't want to.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

No-one should have to keep in touch if they don't want to.

True, for adults, but they should still inform loved ones or family before they leave of their intentions to disconnect while they are away...it's not difficult to do that.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

True, for adults, but they should still inform loved ones or family before they leave of their intentions to disconnect while they are away...it's not difficult to do that.

OK, but my reading of the OP (I may be wrong) is that the alleged missing person was often out of contact for several days - just not this long.

 

[Theatregal]

OK, but my reading of the OP (I may be wrong) is that the alleged missing person was often out of contact for several days - just not this long.

The OP doesn't say that at all. It says... "he has never been so long without giving some news to his wife and she is very worried."

We had similar responses as above when Denise Thiem went missing and her brother contacted the forum, did she want her own space, was her brother really her brother etc etc, and we all saw how that ended.
If you see Jean Marc tell him to contact home asap before he has the authorities searching for him, his wife's worry trumps his space IMO. Don't overthink the situation with political correctness. Only someone who has had family missing will understand the gut gripping worry this causes.

Absolutely! I have been in this situation and we would have been so grateful to have a possible lifeline like the Radio Camino. Just someone along the way who saw our family member and could say "hey, you should call home - folks are worried about you". Maybe things would have turned out differently.

Personally I think the family of this man should be contacting the authorities ASAP. It's been over two weeks since contact.

 

[dougfitz]

We had similar responses as above when Denise Thiem went missing and her brother contacted the forum, did she want her own space, was her brother really her brother etc etc, and we all saw how that ended.

Indeed, but at the start, it took some time for the brother's bona fides to be established. IIRC, @natefaith from Pilgrim House did that and they and others provided local support to the family in their grief. The involvement of the forum would have made little difference to that horrible outcome for Denise, but I think supporting her family would have.

Here, @Anik2001 has been a member for a few years, and in post #13, did establish her connection with the wife who has this concern. Nonetheless, the task of establishing someone's bona fides is on best left to authorities like the police or one's national consular services, along with any international coordination that would clearly be involved to pass that information to local police in Portugal or Spain.

I understand that family members will reach out on social media and forums like this. That won't stop. I don't think we should act individually or collectively as some de-facto pro-bono private detective agency.

his wife's worry trumps his space IMO

I don't agree. If as a couple, they haven't worked through their communications arrangements, and agreed on when the person remaining at home should contact authorities, that is not a good reason for us to be involved. Having said that, letting him know that someone is looking for him is a reasonable compromise.

If you see Jean Marc tell him to contact home asap

This might be a matter of tone, but I think I would be reluctant to do any more than let him know that someone is looking for him. It's entirely up to him whether he contacts his family.

 

[Anik2001]

Thank you all for your answers. From a fellow pilgrim, we had some news that Jean-Marc has been seen alive and well a few days ago near Fatima. He will try to see him again and let him know his wife is worried. That’s all she needs for now.

 

[wayfarer]

Indeed, but at the start, it took some time for the brother's bona fides to be established. IIRC, @natefaith from Pilgrim House did that and they and others provided local support to the family in their grief. The involvement of the forum would have made little difference to that horrible outcome for Denise, but I think supporting her family would have.

Here, @Anik2001 has been a member for a few years, and in post #13, did establish her connection with the wife who has this concern. Nonetheless, the task of establishing someone's bona fides is on best left to authorities like the police or one's national consular services, along with any international coordination that would clearly be involved to pass that information to local police in Portugal or Spain.

I understand that family members will reach out on social media and forums like this. That won't stop. I don't think we should act individually or collectively as some de-facto pro-bono private detective agency.


I don't agree. If as a couple, they haven't worked through their communications arrangements, and agreed on when the person remaining at home should contact authorities, that is not a good reason for us to be involved. Having said that, letting him know that someone is looking for him is a reasonable compromise.

This might be a matter of tone, but I think I would be reluctant to do any more than let him know that someone is looking for him. It's entirely up to him whether he contacts his family.

So what you are saying Doug is that even if we can help we shouldn't because it's none of our business.
Sorry, but I tend to take things at face value.

 

[dougfitz]

So what you are saying Doug is that even if we can help we shouldn't because it's none of our business.
Sorry, but I tend to take things at face value.

No, I am not saying that, and I don't think what I have said lends itself to this interpretation.

It should be relatively clear from what I have said that I think:

• we could let someone know that their family is looking for them
• if they want us to let someone know where they are and their state of well-being, we might do that too, and
• we might provide support to each other and other pilgrims and their families when they need that.

That is far from doing nothing, and it is very unkind of you to represent my comments as suggesting we do do nothing.

As for whether it is or isn't any of our business, let me say that we all have an interest in some way or another in the welfare of other pilgrims. But that doesn't give us the right to be busybodies and to intervene in ways that a pilgrim might not want, nor does it give us the right to intervene on behalf of someone whose bona fides have not been clearly established.

On this latter point, I have seen instances in my working life where the release of information about an individual to someone who claimed to have a legitimate right, but didn't, has torn families apart or damaged relationships. There were only a couple, but the impacts were so significant that they will be difficult instances to forget. The lesson for me was that one needs to clearly establish the bona fides of someone seeking information about an individual before giving that to them.

I have also met pilgrims who have suggested that they were avoiding particular people by walking the Camino. I reserved judgement on their claims. If I had been asked by an appropriate authority, like the police, I would have been honest about any knowledge I had about them. Otherwise, they were entitled to expect me to remain silent about when and where I might have seen them, irrespective of any personal view about the veracity of their stories.

 

[C clearly]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that pilgrims or forum members not help. With a missing person, there are two possibilities:

1. The person is not really missing, but has not communicated. (This accounts for almost all cases.) With a few facts outlined on the forum, we pilgrims can keep an eye out for such a person, ask them if they are that person, and tell them of the concern. This scenario has played out many times. I think we all support doing that.
2. The person is in trouble and needs help. If this is the case, and we see it, surely we would help whether or not it was the reported person. There have been cases where mental health issues have been significant, and that has been considered in the communication and the suggested response. This needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

In either case, any methodical search should be led by people who have the resources, experience and authority to do it properly.

For the record: if ever a family member of mine comes on here and says I’m on Camino and have gone radio silent, it means I am in trouble, so please please help that person. Again, I find this a troubling thread.

Given what you say, I would expect that your family would have reported to the authorities. Maybe they would post something on the forum as well, so "Camino Radio" can do what it can. Members would be happy to keep an eye out and provide any information to the family and the authorities. However, the search would be led by the authorities. I don't really see what additional useful "help" we could provide independent of the official search.

 

[Lhollo]

Might there be an easily addressed problem with relatives abroad not knowing how to contact the relevant Spanish authorities? I know the info is available elsewhere here but, as far as I can see, the lady in question hasn’t been given that information in this thread?

Given what you say, I would expect that your family would have reported to the authorities. Maybe they would post something on the forum as well, so "Camino Radio" can do what it can. Members would be happy to keep an eye out and provide any information to the family and the authorities. However, the search would be led by the authorities. I don't really see what additional useful "help" we could provide independent of the official search.

I was mostly referring to my above comment, which I don’t think was addressed. There’s a presumption that people do know exactly what to do. In my case, my partner knows I use this forum and that you’d know what to do. He has no Spanish and finds Spain’s systems confusing so it’s actually quite possible he’d ask here first. (Edit: I mean also, that if he did then come here to ask and found a thread like this one develop, that wouldn’t be helpful and would be traumatic. I would like to think simple help would be given. There’d be the obvious help of keeping a lookout too, and spreading the word, which would be wanted).

 

[Bristle Boy]

Whilst I am a believer in being helpful I am not supportive of anything intrusive. I was able to imagine a lot of different scenarios (the vast majority would have been wrong) and the different dynamics that exist in relationships.
It is natural in some people to hope for the best and to fear the worst.
I have seen similar posts to this in the past whereby the wishes of one family member might (and do) counteract the wishes of another and I have long felt it isn't the place of members of this forum to get involved. I do not know Jean-Marc and I do not know his wife.
The parameters (and regularity) of communication should have been set out long before this between the two of them.
Beyond there being a notice board to request he ring his wife to put her mind at rest there should be no further involvement as aceeding to the request of one might be counter active to the wishes of another.
I did notice that the onus, and ability, had been placed on him regularly contacting his wife but not the other way around should something have happened at home.
I am glad that nothing has happened to Jean-Marc (I never thought it did).and I wish him continued privacy in his travels.

 

[Lhollo]

Whilst I am a believer in being helpful I am not supportive of anything intrusive. I was able to imagine a lot of different scenarios (the vast majority would have been wrong) and the different dynamics that exist in relationships.
It is natural in some people to hope for the best and to fear the worst.
I have seen similar posts to this in the past whereby the wishes of one family member might (and do) counteract the wishes of another and I have long felt it isn't the place of members of this forum to get involved. I do not know Jean-Marc and I do not know his wife.
The parameters (and regularity) of communication should have been set out long before this between the two of them.
Beyond there being a notice board to request he ring his wife to put her mind at rest there should be no further involvement as aceeding to the request of one might be counter active to the wishes of another.
I did notice that the onus, and ability, had been placed on him regularly contacting his wife but not the other way around should something have happened at home.
I am glad that nothing has happened to Jean-Marc (I never thought it did).and I wish him continued privacy in his travels.

I too am able to imagine many scenarios, including for example that of manipulative partners who have agendas that don’t fit well with pilgrimages.

My sense of unease about this thread came from my initial understanding that the couple had a prior agreement to keep in touch, as they usually did during his Caminos. I understood that it was because of a change in this usual system—an unusual prolonged silence—that the wife was so concerned. I think it’s fine to not hear from someone, if they haven’t said they’ll regularly be in touch! Absolutely!

 

[SEB2]

May I offer another perspective and apologies for repeating this information from a post way many years ago? Back in 2015 (and in my sixties) I set out from SJPdP aiming to reach SdC but really not sure if that would be possible as I had never walked more than 12 miles in a day before. My daughter was kindly looking after everything back home. I called on several occasions to let her know all was okay but she told me that there was no need to get in touch (unless it was an emergency) and that I was on pilgrimage and should just focus on the journey.

 

[Bristle Boy]

May I offer another perspective and apologies for repeating this information from a post way many years ago? Back in 2015 (and in my sixties) I set out from SJPdP aiming to reach SdC but really not sure if that would be possible as I had never walked more than 12 miles in a day before. My daughter was kindly looking after everything back home. I called on several occasions to let her know all was okay but she told me that there was no need to get in touch (unless it was an emergency) and that I was on pilgrimage and should just focus on the journey.

A very mature, trusting and loving response from your daughter @SEB2
There are so many "perspectives" with regard to this thread for me to get involved beyond which I and @dougfitz have posted.
To engage in the forum equivalent of "Where's Waldo" or to put out an APB on the assumption that something bad might have happened appears to be unfounded and usually is.
The assumptions for the lack of contact are probably as numerous as the blossoms of Spring.
I'm pleased that the message has got through that he is safe and sound and I am sure that he will also have many tales of his experience of which, by the sound of it, he has done many times before.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

There is no hard and fast rule that applies to this thread no matter how passionate each of us are with our personal opinions. I am one who can fear the worst pre-maturely, as my emotional make-up leans that way, and no words from others has much bearing when in the midst of a perceived crisis, whether real or not. Hoping for the best falls in second place until the situation is resolved and puts my angst to rest. I have experienced a couple of rather undesireable outcomes to my worries in the past, although most situations have been needless worrying on my part, thankfully.

 

[C clearly]

There’s a presumption that people do know exactly what to do. In my case, my partner knows I use this forum and that you’d know what to do. He has no Spanish and finds Spain’s systems confusing so it’s actually quite possible he’d ask here first.

Yes, of course we would provide advice in such a case. My advice would be for the family member to contact their own local police for advice. I would expect that if one called the Spanish police (or 112) they would need to go through some verification procedure anyway, and that would probably involve checking with your local police. Calling 112 in the first place would probably get to the same point.

Most of the discussion on this thread relates to the situation where someone is worried, but knows that most probably everything is fine and they are not ready to file an official report. (Everyone who has raised teenagers has experienced this scenario.) This is the situation where one must balance privacy against safety.

My sense of unease about this thread came from my initial understanding that the couple had a prior agreement to keep in touch, as they usually did during his Caminos. I understood that it was because of a change in this usual system—an unusual prolonged silence—that the wife was so concerned.

Yes, this is good reason for unease. But we are not even talking to the woman directly, so for us to start reporting back on a rumour mill (Radio Camino) about someone we see on the Camino would cause different unease!