bobotron801
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Oct 2016, Oct-Nov 2017, April-May 2019, Oct 2019
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims.
I'm obviously not Catholic and this is absolutely not the Camino I know. It's not the Camino you know either, @bobotron801 - you say this is really different.Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
So maybe the reaction you are feeling is a “gift” from them (see Rumi – Guest House) to help you figure something out about yourself? And maybe not. Maybe it's just about the composition of pilgrims on the camino at this time.
Those who you feel have ridiculed you and tried to make you feel small are not Catholics either. They may think they are but they are not. To engage them in their hate is a fools errand.I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
Those who you feel have ridiculed you and tried to make you feel small are not Catholics either. They may think they are but they are not. To engage them in their hate is a fools errand.
On my very first camino, I slept in an Albergue where (If I remember correctly, was on the Meseta. I believe there was a communal meal and we ate downstairs and the sleeping area was upstairs). There was a room where in the back where a young priest held a meditation after dinner. We all sat in a circle and we all spoke in our own languages for a minute about who we were and said whatever we wanted to say at that moment about why we were on the Camino or how we were feeling in the moment.
The priest asked each of us about our spiritual or religious beliefs. When he got to me I told him I was Jewish. He smiled and said how wonderful it was to have a Jewish person here because as we all know Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew. He then said that he would say a prayer that Jesus would probably say because if Jesus was with us he would care little of a person's religious identification because he would be feeling for the love and generosity of our hearts. I was the first person in our small group that did not identify themselves a Christian, practicing, fallen or otherwise. One or two others spoke up as Atheists. The priest continued and said that the Camino is here to help fill our spiritual needs and not our religious needs. We are all welcome and any good soul walking is making the Camino richer. Someone else said something about a few really judgmental people she had met. He said that, of course just love them and hopefully the goodness of the Camino will enter their hearts too. We than all prayed or meditated while he said one lovely prayer in 3 or 4 languages. If someone knows which Albergue this was I would love to know.
That night really captures the heart, spirit and soul of why we walk.
I know that Albergue. I had heard of it and had heard how wonderful it was. I stopped there and they were fantastic. We went upstairs to the sleeping area and when I saw the mats I said whoops!!!! If I try to sleep on that mat I will need a chiropractor in the morning when I wake up! We laughed and I thanked them and was off! But everyone I have met who has stayed there loved it. Thanks anyway.Wonderful story. Sounds like San Jaun Bautista in Granon? Not on the Meseta though. Did you sleep on mats on the floor? If so it was probably Granon. If not I have no idea!
Davey
Perhaps it was the parochial albergue at Tosantos? I had a similar experience there...I know that Albergue. I had heard of it and had heard how wonderful it was. I stopped there and they were fantastic. We went upstairs to the sleeping area and when I saw the mats I said whoops!!!! If I try to sleep on that mat I will need a chiropractor in the morning when I wake up! We laughed and I thanked them and was off! But everyone I have met who has stayed there loved it. Thanks anyway.
I don’t get it you a obviously not Catholic? I would never intrude into your believe system but I am wondering is there an obvious way to be anything. I like the saying your deeds follow you like a shadow.I'm obviously not Catholic and this is absolutely not the Camino I know. It's not the Camino you know either, @bobotron801 - you say this is really different.
So as Davey suggests, try dropping back a day to give yourself some space from those who are probably just a few 'bad apples.'
There are people in the world right now who have the impression that it is now OK to openly ridicule others who are different than they are. Kindness is the best and most disarming defense against that...but when you're the one being ridiculed it's also the hardest to genuinely feel and produce.
Heartfelt buen camino...may you find better company!
Hola BobotronI’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
Hola Bobotron:I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
The behaviors I disliked about them never changed but I started to question if they were dropped into my Camino experience for a reason. Ultimately my humanity softened and I found some things to like about each of them and then they disappeared.
Some of us can't avoid that, but hopefully we wear it lightly on the heart.I would suggest not wearing your religiosity, or lack of same, on your proverbial sleeve.
Well, this is an interesting sharing, no harm done...Maybe we should get back to gear questions and where is the next waterhole.
That works. 20 days walking in January and February from Puerto de Bejar to Santiago on the VdlP. Total number of other pilgrims encountered was 5. Shared albergue accommodation on 3 nights out of the 20. Very little scope for argument thereMy personal solution to minimize the problem is for my next Camino to be the VdlP in late winter....sometime.
Love your nicknameOh,
On what Camino may I ask? I have never experienced that. I have always had the impression that super religious people are a minority on the Camino.
/BP
I agree with you that is the way I was raised also. I see society being less polite and very intolerant to others beliefs and practices. I have been yelled at and called names by people I don't even know because I am a follower of Jesus and they call me intolerant. I still avoid talking religion and politics unless I know the person.Back in the day, I was raised to believe that, in polite society, one did not discuss sex, religion or politics. This advice has served me well when meeting new people, for more than 60 years. It may also apply to people one meets on Camino, at least until you know them and they know you much better.
I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
Well, I suppose wearing clerical garb or a robe / cassock, might be a giveaway....
It is all good...
Ah, the proverbial bad apple...and the Irish peregrina was there to affirm the opposite. It's good you (and she) now have some space from this person.Apparently we ran into the same pilgrim that day.
Thanks for your follow-up post. In many cases, aggression comes out and lands on unsuspecting souls who have nothing to do with the source of the emotion in the aggressor. During my long life, I have seen that played out many times. I recall now a cartoon of a series of drawings where there is a man, his wife, his child, the dog, the boss. I think the sequence went like this: the boss gave out to the man, who gave out to the wife, who gave out to the child, and the child to the dog,...Thank you everyone for the quality advice and support. I had dinner with an Irish woman woman opened up a similar encounter she’d had. Apparently we ran into the same pilgrim that day.
I’ve taken a rest day to create space, rain has started again on the Frances so days are going to be a bit slower.
Thanks again
If it is your perception then it is your truth. Forgive those who made you feel unwelcome and remind yourself of who you are in the Christ. Take a deep breath, rest, refocus and walk the path set before you.I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
This was also an important experience for me at my first camino. I met people who, at first sight, I did not like very much. In normal life I probably would choose to ignore them or avoid contact with them. As we walked the same pace, I kept meeting them and getting to know them better. Allthough the things that bothered me still were present, I saw other things that I liked about them, they became far more important. Some of these people I see still and I consider them to be friends. This experience reinforced the thought that it is best to look for positive aspects in people and situations.Bobotron, sorry to hear that you are feeling like you don’t belong. That’s the last emotion one would expect to encounter during the Camino experience.
Feeling this way when you are expecting the typical love and acceptance emotions can be devastating. Davebugg went through this last fall when he encountered an outspoken individual in a group setting that rudely “expressed” his anti-american political sentiments to Dave.
I like the idea the others have proposed. Change your travel group by speeding up your pace for a few days or slowing down and then resuming your normal pace so you are free of this negative vibe around this particular group you are currently bumping into too frequently. And if religion along with language is the primary circumstance where you feel you are getting disconnected I think Kathar1na offers a very insightful explanation.
I had three relatively minor disappointments regarding people interactions along my Camino last year. I could write a couple of pages about each one but I’ll spare you. Somehow, by fate?...all 3 of these people at different times ended up sticking to me for 3 or 4 days after my initial negative encounter with them. They were repeatedly, like it was a plan from then on, in the same room, or the next bunk or across from me at a group dinner or in the same bar for lunch. The behaviors I disliked about them never changed but I started to question if they were dropped into my Camino experience for a reason. Ultimately my humanity softened and I found some things to like about each of them and then they disappeared. So I took it as a lesson or reminder I needed regarding judgment of others. It reminded me of the poem by Rumi – “The Guest House”.
So maybe the reaction you are feeling is a “gift” from them (see Rumi – Guest House) to help you figure something out about yourself? And maybe not. Maybe it's just about the composition of pilgrims on the camino at this time.
Good luck with the rest of your Camino. I’m sure there are dozens of wonderful people near by that you will soon connect with.
You were very kind and good to that guy, or lady. If that happened to me I would have probably left him/her speechless, to say the least.Thank you everyone for the quality advice and support. I had dinner with an Irish woman woman opened up a similar encounter she’d had. Apparently we ran into the same pilgrim that day.
I’ve taken a rest day to create space, rain has started again on the Frances so days are going to be a bit slower.
Thanks again
And then back up the chain? LolThanks for your follow-up post. In many cases, aggression comes out and lands on unsuspecting souls who have nothing to do with the source of the emotion in the aggressor. During my long life, I have seen that played out many times. I recall now a cartoon of a series of drawings where there is a man, his wife, his child, the dog, the boss. I think the sequence went like this: the boss gave out to the man, who gave out to the wife, who gave out to the child, and the child to the dog,...
Whether you are Catholic or not is irrelevant. It only matters what is in your heart when you walk the Camino. If you want a religious experience, you can find it on the Camino if you are open to it. I have a new religious experience each time I walk the Camino. If that is not your thing, that does not matter, but you should know why you are walking it.I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
I go on Camino because I'd rather be there than anywhere else.If that is not your thing, that does not matter, but you should know why you are walking it
I am very sorry for what you are going through. It must be very disappointing. However, aren't you doing it for yourself? I have learned over the years if my contentment is depends on what other people think of me or how they react to me, then I am allowing others to let me down and feel unhappy. Of course I desire to be accepted and loved but I am comfortable enough with myself albeit having countless shortcomings, I am happy on my own. I am sure you have many greatness and some failings as we all do. Please don't allow others make you feel sad or disappointed for they don't even know you. Hope you can raise your sprit up and enjoy the Camino. Only a few of us, considering how many people live on earth, are fortunate enough to do the Camino. How can we allow ourselves to be disappointed?I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
I have, but they were imports, not Europeans.I live in secular Europe. Personally, I've actually never encountered a religious (Christian) zealot
Yeah. Ditto. Both versions of absolute rightness are pretty tiresome.I was sometimes taken aback by the strength of their feelings.
Likewise, I feel strongly compelled too walk without fully understanding why and that's ok for me and I don't care what others think...it no one else business.@c0484 -
"...but you should know why you are walking it."
I do not believe (hope) that you mean that as literal as it reads.
My first time out, I had not the vaguest idea of why I was walking but was strongly compelled (called?) to do so. I believe that there are many who share this experience.
Subsequent walks were predicated on different "whys" at the outset but, by the time I finished, there was so many more and better reasons revealed.
YMMV
B
On my last 4 Camino "expeditions" I walked with International Brigades flag (from Spanish Civil War) patch on my castro cap and it was quite obvious that I'm rather the leftist politically than you know what. So people were intrigued by that and I was asked few times (even by Catholic priest, very nice and polite person) why then walking the Christian Camino. I answered with question if they prey and how they prey. You already know the answer: with my hands. And I answered that while being pagan I prey with my feet.Likewise, I feel strongly compelled too walk without fully understanding why and that's ok for me and I don't care what others think...it no one else business.
It was really interesting for me to be asked by the Hospiteliero at Fuenterroble on the VLDP 'why are you walking'. I had no answer and have been thinking about it ever since. I have appreciated the question although I did find it confronting at the time.
Who cares what other pilgrims think, especially judgmental ones?I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
First time I went to the Camino I was worried -honest- that in Roncesvalles I would have to approve some kind of religiosity test. Not really, although there is a line about "religion" in the registry form.
On my first Camino I was refused a credencial in SJPDP. The woman who issued them decided after speaking with me that I was not sufficiently religious or serious enough to be a genuine pilgrim and would not give me a credencial. She did say that the canons at Roncesvalles were less strict about it and probably would give me one when I got there. And so they did.
A previous one. Summer 1990 to be more precise.Holy cow…! In what century was that?? :Oo
On my first Camino I was refused a credencial in SJPDP. The woman who issued them decided after speaking with me that I was not sufficiently religious or serious enough to be a genuine pilgrim and would not give me a credencial. She did say that the canons at Roncesvalles were less strict about it and probably would give me one when I got there. And so they did.
This should have been the legendary madame Débril.
And yes, she had an attitude...
Obviously, fate was inspiring me to start my Camino in Roncesvalles at about the same time. I'm sure I would have been refused in SJPdP, too.On my first Camino I was refused a credencial in SJPDP. The woman who issued them decided after speaking with me that I was not sufficiently religious or serious enough to be a genuine pilgrim and would not give me a credencial. She did say that the canons at Roncesvalles were less strict about it and probably would give me one when I got there. And so they did.
Have no idea why you feel like this. I have walked 3 Caminos and never once had this. I would say at least 75% of walkers are not catholic. Think this is your mind.I’m on my 3rd Camino right now, feeling a bit down. Maybe it was just a long hot day of walking. I myself am not Catholic and have my own reasons for being here. But over the last few weeks I’ve dealt with ridicule and off putting comments from other pilgrims. Possibly it’s my natural stance to feel defensive. Maybe it’s the language barriers. Starting to feel that I don’t belong here. This is far different from what I’ve experienced in the past.
I have walked several times with priests over the years and engaged in some wonderful conversations. They are normally inclined to dress like other pilgrims and not let on that they are priests, but many nights they disappear to a church to spend the night.We met a Polish Priest at the wine fountain at 7.30 in the morning.
No common language, a brief encounter, a joint goal, vino tinto and never meeting again.
All this combined with a robe, a scallop shell and a small back pack.
How good is this
I have walked several times with priests over the years and engaged in some wonderful conversations. They are normally inclined to dress like other pilgrims and not let on that they are priests, but many nights they disappear to a church to spend the night.
My favorite memory was walking with a nun from Bordeaux on the CP. She was on a two week holiday from her convent and enjoying her life away from her normal routine with the small group we had formed. it wasn't until a few days before we arrived in Santiago that she told us she was a "sister." A day later she completely disappeared.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?