SushiNinja
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances (2014)
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I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
Sounds like a self inflicted pain in the...The most likely result is that you would be obliged to apply for a visa to re-enter the Schengen zone rather than rely on the 90/180 day visa waiver.
Oooh, I just can't resist putting in my 2 eurocents' worth.Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
Surprisingly there is no integrated Schengen-wide system for aggregating your time in the zone. It relies on someone looking through your passport and adding up the days manually.I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
No personal experience, but one thing that might happen is you might not be allowed back into Spain.I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
AgreedI think it is a foolish thing to deliberately do, no matter what experience others might have had.
I wouldn't do it without checking first. They may have a longer tourist visa they could issue if you do it in advance.I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
I'm sure there could be an Irish granny or something if she searched hard enough.Can you get an Irish Passport?? that might help ?
Can you get an Irish Passport?? that might help ?
I'm sure there could be an Irish granny or something if she searched hard enough.
With the backlog here for passports at the moment it could be a while all right.It could take a while to apply for and receive though.
Neither are in the Schengen zone at all.Sometimes that meant doing a weekend in London or Dublin (which isn’t in the Schengen Zone for Americans)
Of no relevance to this thread, BUTWith the backlog here for passports at the moment it could be a while all right.
Yes, it took about 2 years for my mum to get hers!It could take a while to apply for and receive though.
Again, off topic.Also, the visa might be approved just in time but you receive it after your departure. I once applied 6 months in advance for permits to enter both Sikkim and Assam... when I returned from my 9 month overland trip over one year later, the unused permits were waiting for me in London !
If you know you're going to overstay get a visa. It shouldn't be difficult.
Have we put you off yet, ColeI'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
I paid much more than that for my Spanish visa under a "reciprocal agreement" with the UK! Even though that was the price displayed in the Spanish embassy in Athens where I went to collect my visa! I am a UK citizen with EU residence.
- The cost is €80 and you have to show you have €30,000 of medical insurance.
Wow. That's more complicated and expensive than I thought!The application process for Schengen visa is not insignicant...
We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?No experience. And I am happy to remain a citizen of the EU, so don't need to give it any serious thought. But if i were going to do what you suggest, I wouldn't announce it in a public place!It would be hard to say it had happened by accident thereafter.
Easier said than done, if Spain's consular service is anything like Portugal's. Unless you're a student or have some other specialized reason to be staying more than 90 days, it's not very easy to get an extended-stay visa. It sounds good, but they seem reluctant to issue these.I have to wonder given the following information copied off a government website and your proximity to Spain / Schengen countries why not just get a visa to stay over. It's not a hard process.
If you plan to stay for longer than 90 days in any 180-day period, you must contact the high commission or embassy of the country or countries to which you are travelling and obtain the appropriate visa before you travel. If you do not obtain the appropriate visa and you stay longer than the permitted 90 days in the Schengen area, you may be fined or deported.
Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone, but as far as I know there are no restrictions on the length of time Irish citizens can spend in the EU. Ireland is in exactly the same situation as the UK was before Brexit.We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?
EU citizens are allowed to spend up to three months in another EU state without further formalities. After that the right to remain has some conditions attached.Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone, but as far as I know there are no restrictions on the length of time Irish citizens can spend in the EU. Ireland is in exactly the same situation as the UK was before Brexit.
But that's 3 months in a single country. If you go to another country before the end of 3 months, the clock starts again.EU citizens are allowed to spend up to three months in another EU state without further formalities. After that the right to remain has some conditions attached.
Free movement and residence
Information on EU citizens' right to move and reside freely within the EU.commission.europa.eu
If that is true, that's great news! My husband and I would like to travel Northern Spain in September (I hope to walk the Olvidado), we have only just found out that, having an Irish passport, making us in effect EU citizens, does not allow us to extend a stay in a European country beyond 90 days, but we could go into France and than come back for another 90 days? But how do we prove travelling into France when there are no border checks between France and Spain?But that's 3 months in a single country. If you go to another country before the end of 3 months, the clock starts again.
This is the kind of question that inspires well meaning but ultimately useless answers.We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?
Check with Citizens Advice Bureau.If that is true, that's great news! My husband and I would like to travel Northern Spain in September (I hope to walk the Olvidado), we have only just found out that, having an Irish passport, making us in effect EU citizens, does not allow us to extend a stay in a European country beyond 90 days, but we could go into France and than come back for another 90 days? But how do we prove travelling into France when there are no border checks between France and Spain?
I could not agree more.This is the kind of question that inspires well meaning but ultimately useless answers.
And again, I could not agree more.Each country in the EU has different approaches to this
I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.My guess, but it is only a guess, is that the number of EU citizens who walk for 3 months on Caminos in Spain is so low that nobody cares.
How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.
I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.
Spanish immigration rules are incredibly bureaucratic and if someone finds themselves outside the rules it will most likely require legal assistance.
I think you may be missing my point.How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?
No.So, all you mean is that you live in Ireland.
OK, I'm not sure anything you said proves you are an Irish citizen from birth. I am not and never will be an Irish citizen. I lived there for 5 years and could provide all the things you describe.No.
I haven't lived in Ireland for close on 30 years.
Exactly.I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.
I’d very much hope that two people each carrying the same passport would be treated equally.I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.
I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.
Spanish immigration rules are incredibly bureaucratic and if someone finds themselves outside the rules it will most likely require legal assistance.
Sorry, when I said the clock resets when you leave the country, I wasn't really suggesting that, just that you could continue your travels in other countries almost indefinitely. So not limited to 90 days in the Schengen zone.Don’t try some pirouettes like going for a day to France and return to Spain again because that’s most certainly not foreseen in EU law.
I'm not sure why you are so focused on this?OK, I'm not sure anything you said proves you are an Irish citizen from birth. I am not and never will be an Irish citizen. I lived there for 5 years and could provide all the things you describe.
That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.by all means go to the next town hall and say what’s what and try to register.
In actual fact, it may be a simpler process to get a stamp in France to prove a visit and thus resetting the clock.Don’t try some pirouettes like going for a day to France and return to Spain again
I would hope so too. My experience, unfortunately, doesn't match such optimism. I have had various forms of ID from different EU countries and have chosen which to use depending on the occasion.I’d very much hope that two people each carrying the same passport would be treated equally.
Of course! How could I forget this - if you have an EU passport, let’s say Irish but don’t want to work, or are not looking for work, are not studying and are not retired and retiring in an EU country other than Ireland, you have a hurdle to take when you want to register at the 3 months mark as you should: you must provide convincing proof that you can support yourself and are unlikely to become a burden on the social security system … town administrations can get really mean about this.That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.
The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.
No, I don't think so. They just look at the passport. If you are an EU citizen there are no stamps.Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?
I have done this dozens of time in the past 10 years and have never got a stamp and always entered through the EU channel. I am an Irish citizen, living in a non-EU, non-Schengen country.Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?
I said can, as in may. Not will. Each municipality is different.The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.
We are now mixing up two essentially different processes: someone who does not have an EU passport and comes to work in an EU country and has a visa and a fixed abode versus someone who has an EU passport, therefore does never need a visa, does not intend to work, study or retire in an EU country other than the country of his/her passport. It is the latter category who will have problems with registration at a town hall. I am speaking from experience: members of my own family and those of friends. Municipalities have really become more restrictive and stricter in recent years in this context.The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.
Travelling for example from Ireland (a non-Schengen EU country) to the Schengen area, every EU passport holder is treated the same: passport control by Schengen border officials and no Schengen entry stamp.Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?
How about just hiking a little faster and getting there 3 days faster. Sounds kind of ridiculous for just 2 or 3 days extraI'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole
It’s probably redundant to point it out again:In the unlikely event that the OP has not run rapidly away from this thread… I rent 3 bedrooms here in NL to students, often from outside the EU, every academic year.
Many fail to complete their registrations either correctly or on time. They do indeed sometimes receive reminders and eventually threats of impending fines, but it has NEVER resulted in penalties & is always resolved.
It’s probably redundant to point it out again:
These are three different cases with different potential issues.
- non-EU passport holder who stays in the EU to study …
- EU passport holder who stays in another EU country to study …
- EU passport holder who stays in another EU country for other purposes (no study, no work) and needs to register …
Only case 3 is of actual interest to forum members.
Anectodes and references to other cases than case 3 only serve to muddle information that is of practical use.
Luckily that is something that almost never happens on this forumOnly case 3 is of actual interest to forum members.
Anectodes and references to other cases than case 3 only serve to muddle information that is of practical use.
Nor is your anecdote.Surely none of the above are relevant to the OP, a British passport holder who is not entering Spain to study ?
Surely none of the above are relevant to the OP, a British passport holder who is not entering Spain to study ? There does not appear to be a great deal of info on this thread of truly practical use to the OP.
Because you were born on the Island of Ireland and have an Irish passport.How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?
Great answer, thank youYes, indeed it doesn’t. The original question has been answered extensively and the discussion has moved on to the situation of forum members who: do not have residency in the EU; acquired an EU nationaliy (Irish) as a second nationality; want to stay/reside longer than 3 months in Spain.
Or perhaps I am too harsh in my assessment and I ought to have written that the discussion has moved on to the principle of EU freedom of movement of EU passport holders in theory, in practice and according to common belief, as well as to EU law on long-term stays of third country (non-EU) nationals in theory and practice?
The OP was last seen yesterday at 15.10. No idea if he peeked in to his own thread. I am not so sure if anyone with the experience he wanted to hear about has answered, the thread is a bit confusing with info and advice. There is plenty of sensible advice, for those who wish to conform to rules. Personally, it is unlikely I will again spend more than 90 days on the Iberian peninsula, but if I did, one of the first things I would do is register, as it gives access to municipal swimming pools at a great annual rate, for one thing!In the unlikely event that the OP has not run rapidly away from this thread… I rent 3 bedrooms here in NL to students, often from outside the EU, every academic year.
Many fail to complete their registrations either correctly or on time. They do indeed sometimes receive reminders and eventually threats of impending fines, but it has NEVER resulted in penalties & is always resolved.
But lots of people who were born elsewhere were also Irish citizens from birth.Because you were born on the Island of Ireland and have an Irish passport.
The idea that immigration officials will differentiate between "real" Irish people and Brits who just got an Irish passport because of Brexit is ridiculous.
I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.
I see only now that this link eventually leads to Spanish government sites in English. But again, they distinguish between “right to stay up for up to 3 months” (estancia) and “right to reside for more than 3 months” (residencia). What if you want to stay but not reside? That appears to be the conundrum - I at least I have not managed to wrap my mind around this …see last link on the EU website mentioned above.
Out of curiosity, I had a look on a few websites in Dutch and German because numerous citizens from these two countries travel with their mobile homes/camper vans to Spain and spend many months there, in summer as well as in winter. Still, I found no answer as to whether they have to register after 3 months or not, especially when they don’t have a fixed address, i.e. continue travelling around instead of staying at one site.
Ummmm. Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.
The first thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.
Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.
Finally, yet importantly, it does not matter if you have entered Schengen territory on a Schengen Visa, or if you are the national of a country, to which a visa waiver has been applied. You are not allowed to overstay the 90 days amount of permitted stay per 180 days, even if you belong to one of the latter. It does not also matter if you are overstaying a Schengen tourist visa or you are overstaying a student visa. There is a visa overstaying penalty for each, and if you do such a thing, you will get yours.
Thank you @Kathar1na taking the time to research and report back on this. I for one, an EU pensioner wishing to travel around Spain in a Campervan, am very grateful for your comments and links.I see only now that this link eventually leads to Spanish government sites in English. But again, they distinguish between “right to stay up for up to 3 months” (estancia) and “right to reside for more than 3 months” (residencia). What if you want to stay but not reside? That appears to be the conundrum - I at least I have not managed to wrap my mind around this ….
How lucky you non-EU guys are: you at least know for sure that you will need a long-stay visa.
https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...igaciones/ciudadanos/residencia/estancia.html
https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...udadanos/residencia/obtencion-residencia.html
In what circumstances can non EU people overstay in Spain? Thought it was definitely only maximum 90 days at the minute?Erm … how one’s own country views this is a completely different kettle of fish. And what a kettle it is. Because that is mainly national law and not EU law. If, for example you are a German national but live in another EU country and have kept your flat or house in Germany as your second residence or occasional holiday residence, German law will regard this as your main residence - there is no way around it. While the EU country where you actually live and are also registered as such has a completely different view about your main residency. Better not go there.
Also, non-EU people may overstay in Spain. EU people cannot overstay in Spain - they may fail to fulfill an administrative duty either due to ignorance or knowingly but that is not overstaying - very big differences here.
With respect, in the case we are discussing where a person is carrying an EU passport, will have received no stamp on entry, appears to be driving across the border, just how will a stay of over 90 days be caught in Spain?Ummmm. Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.
From
What Are the Consequences of Overstaying in the Schengen Area?
Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it. To many, the 90-day...www.schengenvisainfo.com
In spite of thread drift it's totally relevant. The OP is English.With respect, in the case we are discussing where a person is carrying an EU passport, will have received no stamp on entry, appears to be driving across the border, just how will a stay of over 90 days be caught in Spain?
Yes, the OP is English, has not contributed to the thread since their OP and we are now discussing the scenario of an EU passport holder planning to be in Spain for more than 90 days.It's totally relevant. The OP is English.
we are now discussing the scenario of an EU passport holder planning to be in Spain for more than 90 days.
What is relevant?
Excuse me.
But as Laineylainey just said it is relevant for anyone from Ireland, as well.
I think this is unlikely to happen to an EU passport carrying pensioner travelling around Spain in a campervan.Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.
What I posted about the Schengen Zone.What is relevant?
The big difference fir us residing in Ireland (a non schengen country but member EU state), is that we go through EU border control going and leaving Spain.
It seems a bit reckless to be saying 'No problem, it's unlikely you'll get caught.'
I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.
However, problems lie away from the authorities in cases such as insurance not being valid,
Not to mention that it is disrespectful to enter another country with the intention of breaking their laws.
Advice for these kinds of things is better sought from the experts.
Not to mention that it is disrespectful to enter another country with the intention of breaking their laws.
Absolutely.Advice for these kinds of things is better sought from the experts.
So if my interpretation isn't what you intended, I'm happy to retract what I said, with apology.I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.
They have to go through border control when entering and leaving the schengen zone, but they are not restricted to a maximum of 90 days in the Schengen zone.What I posted about the Schengen Zone.
Irish citizens are EU citzens, yes.
But.
Ireland is not in the Schengen Zone. So as Laineylainey said, Irish citizens have to go through border controls any time they enter or leave the SZ.
It may seem farfetched that an EU pensioner in a campervan would be harshly treated at that border, but it seems a bit reckless to be saying 'No problem, it's unlikely you'll get caught.'
Not to mention being ethically questionable - or is purposefully breaking the law just because it's inlikely you'll face consequences fashionable now?
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