Single Greatest Threat to Failure

[LoneStar]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

 

[Bajaracer]

I realize that some are pressed for time, it was amazing to see how the ones who walked from SJPDP to Pamplona in two days, then a few days later they would start falling back due to injuries, it takes a few days for your body to adjust, if you don't hammer your body early on, your fitness will improve and so will the distances.

 

[Annette london]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

Thank you for this. Excellent advice. Unfortunately when we did our first Camino in 2005 and although we were experienced hill and mountain walkers, I for one know now that the Camino is a totally different kettle of fish so to speak, mainly because of the terrain and the distance covered. We walked from jpdp to Santiago in 24 days, not because we were in a rush or anything but because we were so excited and so full of adrenaline to be walking it. 4 days into the journey I got blisters and they only got worse as time progressed. By the time we reached Santiago I was hobbling and have never suffered so much pain ,even losing 2 toe nails. In fact lucky not to have sustained other injuries such as tendinitis or ankle injuries as so many we met had from walking too far and too fast. Maybe looking back we should have hopped a bus now and then but wanted to do it all! All our other caminos were more sensibly undertaken!! So yes thank you for this advice for the newbies starting off. A great thread started.best wishes Annette

 

[spursfan]

I would disagree - I'd rank carrying way too much jointly top with wearing unsuitable shoes

Certainly the first day from SJPP to Roncesvalles is tough but after that is relatively straightforward - at first, I stuck to the Brierley stages but after arriving at Los Arcos after walking for only 3hr 40m I then decided to walk in the afternoons as well and ended up taking 20 days to Santiago

If you can walk for 4 hours before you start in SJPP then you should be able to reduce the pace by 10-15% and double the time spent walking each day

 

[Kanga]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible - shorter distances until the body is trail fit. What are those distances will vary from person to person.

On my first Camino (unfit, not a great walker, heavy pack) I aimed to start by doing less than 15km a day. That worked for me and over two weeks I became fitter. I was gradually able to walk longer distances without injury but 8 caminos later I still like to keep the kilometres down under 20km per day for the first couple of weeks. That's me.

I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

 

[grayland]

I totally agree with Kanga that John Brierley and the others do folks a real disservice with the arbitrary "stages" in the guides.
I had not thought about it before as I have no problems with the distances.
But..after thinking about what Kanga posted..I can see how it would be a real source of discouragement and overdoing by newer pilgrims.
Guides without "expected" or " normal" stopping points would be a good thing.

 

[spursfan]

Point taken, Kanga

But surely everyone who hopes to walk 800km across a country up and down hills should acquire some trail fitness beforehand in the weeks and months before their Camino - so perhaps lack of preparation should be also viewed as an important threat to failure - at home is also a good place to see what works and protect against what doesn't work rather than finding out problems in the first hours and days out of SJPP

 

[alexwalker]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible - shorter distances until the body is trail fit. What are those distances will vary from person to person.

On my first Camino (unfit, not a great walker, heavy pack) I aimed to start by doing less than 15km a day. That worked for me and over two weeks I became fitter. I was gradually able to walk longer distances without injury but 8 caminos later I still like to keep the kilometres down under 20km per day for the first couple of weeks. That's me.

I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

Completely agree. I take it veeery easy the first few days, and it works just nicely. I have read the Brierley guide (but I use the CSJ guides: Much lighter and sufficient info): Some of the day's distances in the Brierley guide are simply idiotic. But by all means: It (that guide) tells you where many will stop for the day. Then, stay in between, and you will not have any problems finding a bed

 

[bystander]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

But for some time my proposed walking schedule for the first ten days, to avoid injury and to build up stamina, has been as below. You will see it is only after Puenta la Reina that I would crank up the daily distances. Also bear in mind I will have no time restrictions.

SJPdP – Valcarlos - 12km
Valcarlos - Roncevalles - 13
Roncevalles – Viskarret, Corazon Puro - 10
Viskarret - Akerreta - 17
Akerreta - Pamplona - 15
Rest day in Pamplona
Pamplona – Zariquiegui - 14
or
Pamplona – Uterga - 14
Zariquiegui - Puenta la Reina - 16
Puenta la Reina – Estella - 22

 

[Kanga]

Looks good @bystander ! Can I come too?
Yes @spursfan doing some training will help enormously. Realistically for some people it just does not happen. In that case the only thing to do is shorten the kilometres initially.

 

[VSB]

I haven't ever prepared and I'm not fit, but I've tended to walk long, slow days of around 35 to 40km. I also did shorter days but they just didn't feel right to me. It's very much a case of each to their own!

 

[Aidan21]

I think Kanga is right 'Humanity is infinitely varied'. Unfortunately we as humans tend to look for the normal and are much to quick to compare ourselves with the 'norm'. Having made the comparison we can then sometimes judge ourselves (and frequently harshly). I think we need to accept that we are unique and that one size does not fit all. Guides are just that, guides, they are not rule books. Each of us must listen to our bodies, use our good sense and amble/walk/hike our Camino. If we are to learn something along the way, meet someone or just have the experience of our lives then the Camino will take care of it, we just need to take care of ourselves.

 

[galliano]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

But for some time my proposed walking schedule for the first ten days, to avoid injury and to build up stamina, has been as below. You will see it is only after Puenta la Reina that I would crank up the daily distances. Also bear in mind I will have no time restrictions.

SJPdP – Valcarlos - 12km
Valcarlos - Roncevalles - 13
Roncevalles – Viskarret, Corazon Puro - 10
Viskarret - Akerreta - 17
Akerreta - Pamplona - 15
Rest day in Pamplona
Pamplona – Zariquiegui - 14
Pamplona – Uterga - 14
Zariquiegui - Puenta la Reina - 16
Puenta la Reina – Estella - 22

Seems to me You have a really good plan there.

 

[fraluchi]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible [...] I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

Of the various "long" Caminos I once walked with a small group from Sarria to Santiago at 7 km a day. We were called "los caracoles". It was superb

 

[Sailor]

A paso de caracol! That's the way I like it. Start slow, then ease off. Que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Bajaracer]

I noticed some of the more athletic types were plagued with blisters just like everybody else, I figured they would have the least amount of issues with them since they are "conditioned" and in better shape than myself.

 

[JennyH94]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

But for some time my proposed walking schedule for the first ten days, to avoid injury and to build up stamina, has been as below. You will see it is only after Puenta la Reina that I would crank up the daily distances. Also bear in mind I will have no time restrictions.

SJPdP – Valcarlos - 12km
Valcarlos - Roncevalles - 13
Roncevalles – Viskarret, Corazon Puro - 10
Viskarret - Akerreta - 17
Akerreta - Pamplona - 15
Rest day in Pamplona
Pamplona – Zariquiegui - 14
Pamplona – Uterga - 14
Zariquiegui - Puenta la Reina - 16
Puenta la Reina – Estella - 22

Greetings bystander - I was sorry to hear that you have not been well and hope that your rate of recovery increases now. Best, best wishes for a wonderful Camino the year after next - it will be here before you know it and, as you know so well, there is much joy in the training - imagining yourself out on those ancient and magical paths.

Thank you so much for the information you've shared on your daily distances for the first 10 days - these shorter distances make so much sense and I firmly believe, by really taking your time at the beginning - feeling the excitement of being on the Camino, beginning to make connections with other pilgrims and drinking in the changing landscape, that you get into that incomparable Camino mode more quickly. Ah! that feeling!!!

Cheers - Jenny

 

[alexwalker]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

But for some time my proposed walking schedule for the first ten days, to avoid injury and to build up stamina, has been as below. You will see it is only after Puenta la Reina that I would crank up the daily distances. Also bear in mind I will have no time restrictions.

SJPdP – Valcarlos - 12km
Valcarlos - Roncevalles - 13
Roncevalles – Viskarret, Corazon Puro - 10
Viskarret - Akerreta - 17
Akerreta - Pamplona - 15
Rest day in Pamplona
Pamplona – Zariquiegui - 14
Pamplona – Uterga - 14
Zariquiegui - Puenta la Reina - 16
Puenta la Reina – Estella - 22

A very sensible itinerary, since you (like me) have no time constraints. Better enjoy the journey than rush one's Camino: It will end too soon, anyway

 

[Dutchwalk53]

as you know so well, there is much joy in the training - imagining yourself out on those ancient and magical paths.

THAT is for me almost just as important as the time in Spain itself. I just need that motivation to keep walking here at home interesting enough . I almost want to say....it keeps me in shape all year round when I have the Camino to look forward to I was going to skip 2016 due to the fact I simply cannot take 5 weeks off again but am planning now to go just 2 weeks in 2016. During those 2 weeks I'm just going to take it easy distance wise there I won't end up in Santiago anyways. Last Camino I was on a mission with my son to get there. This one will be to "smell the roses" a bit more and pay more attention to the journey itself.

 

[noway]

I see a lot of people who are planning their camino being afraid of "failing". And there are so many tips coming from everyone who wants to help that the number#1 focus point sometimes gets lost.

Is it the dreaded blisters, the heavy backpack or the wrong shoees?

I walked the Camino Frances in 22 days (including 2 rest days). I'm not very fit 38 year old, I smoked sigarets, drank beer and wine every day. I never did much sports as a kid, I was the chess and piano playing geek. How did I do it?

2 months of dedicated pre-camino training.

You skip this and your failure rate increases by over 100% in my opinion.

What do you need to train and for how long?

Core: Walking with a backpack for so long is a strain on your back. The best way to avoide back pains is to strengthen your belly. Two months with some kind of sit-up/core regiment will do wonders. Youtube will help you find some exercises. Training core is especially important if you are +40 and do not consider yourself to be in form

Legs/feet/stamina: Get the shoes you plan to walk the camino in and start walking with a 8kg backpack (this is the absolute maximum you should carry with you) at least 8 weeks before departure. In this time you should have walked half the actual distance you plan to walk during the camino.

In order to count km during the training period you should only count the extra walking you do (not counting walking to and back from the sub-way) and only count stretches above 10km. The point of this training is to activate your smaller musceles and ligaments so that you don’t get inflammation etc in these.

Another huge advantage is that your back and feet gets used to carrying that weight and your feet gets used to your shoees.

Lets say you plan to walk 800km in 32 days. That is about 25km per day. Your training should consist of walking 400km over 8 weeks. Week#1 your goal is to walk an average dayly stage of 25km, then you gradually increase each weeks stretch with a fixed percentage so that you total 400km in 8 weeks. For this particular example that would be a weekly increase of 20%. It is up to you how you spread out those km for each week, but remember to only count walks that are above 10km.

Example of total km per week for a 8 week traning program for the Camino Frances:

1. 25km
2. 30km
3. 36km
4. 42km
5. 50km
6. 60km
7. 72km
8. 85km

So the first week you could do 1 day of 10km and 1 day of 15km
The last week you would have to do 10km every day from monday to friday to saturday and then maybe a 25km on sunday.

If this sounds like much then just start 10 weeks in advanced and your weekly increase is 10%:

1. 25km
2. 28km
3. 30km
4. 33km
5. 37km
6. 40km
7. 45km
8. 49km
9. 54km
10. 59km

So this post got a bit longer that i planned, but I really atribute my "success" last year to a strict pre-camino walking schedule. I really hope anyone who is planning their first camino takes my advice on this.

kind regards,
nowere

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

A very sensible itinerary, since you (like me) have no time constraints. Better enjoy the journey than rush one's Camino: It will end too soon, anyway

I have an old(er) friend and mentor who swears by the adage: start slow and then taper

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I am part of the group who does not train, and I am short and heavy so you might think it would be mandatory for me to train. And perhaps if you have a specific goal in mind, such as "must walk the whole thing in 20 days" you do, but I just put a foot in front of the other and also plan to make what is "supposed to be" a 15 etapa walk kn 18.

On my second CF this tall, young, thin creature asked me one morning if I was going all the way to X town, and I said no, I'm stopping in Y, X is too much for me. Her response: oh, you can do it, just try. .... Never saw her again until the morning walking into Santiago, by the airport, knees bandaged. Turns put she had to take a number of days off to nurse her knees. Not me !

On the Primi last fall I stopped in Esclampero (10km) and took the time to visit the Naranco monuments, instead of pushing to Grado (20?) or San Juan (27?). Didn't say at Alejandro's Albergue despite how amazing the experience is said to be because I passed it at 10 am because I chose a shorter day the day before, but so be it.

And if I may, I don't think the etapas suggested in the guides are arbitrary, I think they are based on where the greatest number of beds and services can be found, which for the vast majority is important. Poor Brierly. But right, it doesn't make these mandatory, far from it.

So, back to waht will ensure failure: not drinking enough, not getting sun protection, not visiting your podiatrist to make sure your chosen footwear is well suited to you and get orthotics if needed, not "oiling" your feet in the am to prevent blisters, as well as other areas prone to chaffing, trying to keep up with people you've met who are not walking at your pace. Not having enough Cafe con leche and too much wine

 

[joeboybollo]

I just did the Ingles- not very far,I know but I just ambled along,enjoyed the scenery,stopped when I fancied it,took 7 days instead of 4 (plus 2 days in Santiago) and really enjoyed it. What is the rush? I would not mind doing 3 or 4 weeks next year but if it happens it will be at MY pace ,not Mr.Brierley's.
Joe

 

[jimabfalter]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

I started training for our camino almost a year ahead of time. I started drinking Spanish reds! My wife and I walked the camino in Sept. and finished Oct. 9th. We had a wonderful life changing experience and plan to do other walks. We just walked as far as we felt comfortable and then grabbed a taxi towards where we would spend the night. A lot of times we walked the whole way, but we never stressed over our distances and if either of us were hurting we rode.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Point taken, Kanga

But surely everyone who hopes to walk 800km across a country up and down hills should acquire some trail fitness beforehand in the weeks and months before their Camino - so perhaps lack of preparation should be also viewed as an important threat to failure - at home is also a good place to see what works and protect against what doesn't work rather than finding out problems in the first hours and days out of SJPP

Not really.
We call that (in our house) the Great God ShouldaWouldaCoulda (pronounced Shud-a-wuduck'-ida).
In a perfect world, maybe.
However, MOST people I've talked to train while on the Camino.
Perhaps they have good intentions while at home, but it never seems to happen.
So they get on the Camino and either start slow, as advised in this excellent post by the OP,
or they hurt themselves.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

This is a very sensible plan - and one I'd suggest to people who are not in shape.

I do this myself every year when I return to the Camino - start out slow...

 

[spursfan]

I think that you're being too pessimistic about the possibility of getting hurt - over time I've learned what combination of shoes and socks give me no blisters, made my pack super-light and perfected my diet of chocolate and Aquarius - I walk for an hour at home most days and can walk for up to four hours without thinking - so I don't do anything special and start walking my target distance once I start my Camino - as long as I trim my overall pace I can then walk 8-10 hours per day without any problems

 

[Annette london]

I noticed some of the more athletic types were plagued with blisters just like everybody else, I figured they would have the least amount of issues with them since they are "conditioned" and in better shape than myself.

Yes I agree and it would seem so As we were quiet fit on the first Camino even though we had never "trained" as such but just used to walk a lot.even though I had the correct shoes and only carried 8 km. I was well hydrated with water and wine!! I did learn a lot after that first one and really believe it was the heat that made my feet sweat so much and I did not have the "cop on" to change my socks during the day. NOW on any long distance walk and Camino, the socks are changed at least 5 times a day and the wet ones adorn the backpack to dry!! Since that first time I have never again had a blister thank god. Now if it's hot as it was this year we try and start very early to beat the heat,stop when we want and just relax in a cafe and watch the world go by. Also stop a lot lot more now for cafe or whatnot and taking off the footwear even for a while helps. Seeing people now with bad blisters makes me feel so bad as I remember that first Camino so well but for mainly for the blisters!!

 

[Robo]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible - shorter distances until the body is trail fit. What are those distances will vary from person to person.

On my first Camino (unfit, not a great walker, heavy pack) I aimed to start by doing less than 15km a day. That worked for me and over two weeks I became fitter. I was gradually able to walk longer distances without injury but 8 caminos later I still like to keep the kilometres down under 20km per day for the first couple of weeks. That's me.

I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

Great advice from the OP I think. That was certainly how I tackled my first Camino this year.

Also regarding the Brierley Guide, it does actually need to be broken into stages. Otherwise you would be reading it like a roll of toilet paper!

I probably stopped at the Brierley 'halts' 50% of the time. The positive was ... that there were lots of other Pilgrims to socialise with. The negative of course was that the path was more crowded. Certainly in the early days I was often stopping between stages as I couldn't cope with the distances. I think that often made for a far more pleasant, less crowded walk.

And in the 'final 100' I was often between stages, which meant far less crowds.

I met a fair number of 'racers'. Most of whom were injured at some stage.....

 

[Bajaracer]

You have people of varying levels of fitness, not everyone will have the luxury of getting fit before they go, each person is different and so is their fitness. Listen to your body, there has to be some form of balance in how much you can push yourself, you don't want to create injuries that will plague you long after you complete the Camino.

 

[waveprof]

We broke in our boots, trained a lot (mostly on city streets in New Orleans), wore a new pair of socks every day (sometimes two), had a pedicure to soften our feet before starting, kept our feet dry, sometimes put vasoline or other jelly on feet to keep them soft.....

and out of our entire group not a single blister the entire way....... in spite of the fact we were all carrying too much weight because we had a baby with us (which 1), made the person carrying him carry TONS of weight, and, 2) meant the other two adults had to carry enough clothes/food/etc to cover for the person carrying the baby and the baby).


Not saying we've perfected blisters (watch us get some on our next camino), nor that our strategy would work for everybody.....but worth noting.

 

[pilgrim b]

I met a fair number of 'racers'. Most of whom were injured at some stage.....

Yes Rob, on my first Camino the racers were refered to as White Rabbits (Alice in Wonderland) " Can't wait got appointments to keep!!"
Mind you I think quite a few were racing for beds and finishing at about one O clock for the day.

 

[NavyBlue]

Hello,

start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week.

A good rule of thumb is : walk not more than 100 km in total during the first 6 days, and rest on the 7th.

Unless you are fully trained à la Noway, your body needs time to adapt itself to the unusual efforts you demand. From my experience, about the good old "Listen to your body" stuff : in some cases (especially a stress fracture) the only "message" you get from your body is "Well, I think I'm broken...". Bad news when your have no blisters, no muscular pain, no tendonitis signs.

In a nutshcll : as you don't really know your limits, don't push your body too hard. Better safe than sorry.

 

[waveprof]

Hello,



A good rule of thumb is : walk not more than 100 km in total during the first 6 days, and rest on the 7th.

Unless you are fully trained à la Noway, your body needs time to adapt itself to the unusual efforts you demand. From my experience, about the good old "Listen to your body" stuff : in some cases (especially a stress fracture) the only "message" you get from your body is "Well, I think I'm broken...". Bad news when your have no blisters, no muscular pain, no tendonitis signs.

In a nutshcll : as you don't really know your limits, don't push your body too hard. Better safe than sorry.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of starting slow, I think that averaging 16 km a day for 6 days might be slower than even a lot of out of shape people would need. Also, realize a lot of people feel (and have experiences to back it up) that "off" days make things worse. I realize other people are big believers in off days (and have experiences to back it up), but it's at least worth pointing out that everyone's body is different and an "off" day may be a very, very bad idea for some.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I have never taken a full day off, nope, not true, did in Bilbao. I really prefer shorter days, and after all, how much rest do you get when walking through towns, museums, etc? And you can get a good glimpds of these cities hilights in the afternoon and evening.

I feel no shame waltzing in at 2 pm in San Juan de Villapanada and being the first one in whole others do so while the rest of us are asleep at 10pm.

After all, why put more stress on your joints standing on marble floors. Oh the pain at the end of my Primi when visiting the Prado. No matter how fascinating the Bosco, Goya's dog paintings and Picasso's work were, I was in sooo much pain, just standing. (Which btw is why my advice is, if you are tourisming before or after, you do so before the Camino).

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Excellent suggestin to stretch. I never dis until this fall, to manage my plantar fasciitis. It doesn't require much, a lot of it can be done in bed, certainly foot stretches. A 30 min. Consult can teach you all you need to keep the Camino aches away.

 

[waveprof]

I have never taken a full day off, nope, not true, did in Bilbao. I really prefer shorter days, and after all, how much rest do you get when walking through towns, museums, etc? And you can get a good glimpds of these cities hilights in the afternoon and evening.

I feel no shame waltzing in at 2 pm in San Juan de Villapanada and being the first one in whole others do so while the rest of us are asleep at 10pm.

After all, why put more stress on your joints standing on marble floors. Oh the pain at the end of my Primi when visiting the Prado. No matter how fascinating the Bosco, Goya's dog paintings and Picasso's work were, I was in sooo much pain, just standing. (Which btw is why my advice is, if you are tourisming before or after, you do so before the Camino).

Precisely. We had a 7 km day in the first week (Lorca to Estella) and another pretty short one out of Burgos (Burgos to Rabe de las Calzados)......both had the effect of a restful day, but it kept our bodies and joints moving. Leaving Burgos after noon also allowed me to stock up on baby supplies

I don't think staying in one spot an entire day would have been nearly as well received by our bodies as those two super short days were.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

And that is how you get to spnd the night in wonderful places by passed by many guides since they are not "real" etapas.

 

[Annette london]

Precisely. We had a 7 km day in the first week (Lorca to Estella) and another pretty short one out of Burgos (Burgos to Rabe de las Calzados)......both had the effect of a restful day, but it kept our bodies and joints moving. Leaving Burgos after noon also allowed me to stock up on baby supplies

I don't think staying in one spot an entire day would have been nearly as well received by our bodies as those two super short days were.

So lovely taking the baby with you! I must admit we have never taken a "Rest" day either by stopping for a day or just doing short distances We also tend to avoid the big cities.We tend to do about 25 km a day but with lots of cafe stops. Then we just rest at day's end at more cafes and just read or write.we don't do any cultural visits as these things have been done years ago and now we just want to walk!! I do however understand why many of those on the Camino wish to see museums etc but for us I'm afraid resting our limbs and feet is more important for us at this stage and I think that this, for us is why we have managed to avoid injury and blisters. Whatever floats the boat I suppose!!!

 

[Lmsundaze]

I have been held back from starting my camino by illness.....
,,,,,whilst, now recovering, complications have followed and 2017 will, hopefully, be my camino year.

But for some time my proposed walking schedule for the first ten days, to avoid injury and to build up stamina, has been as below. You will see it is only after Puenta la Reina that I would crank up the daily distances. Also bear in mind I will have no time restrictions.

SJPdP – Valcarlos - 12km
Valcarlos - Roncevalles - 13
Roncevalles – Viskarret, Corazon Puro - 10
Viskarret - Akerreta - 17
Akerreta - Pamplona - 15
Rest day in Pamplona
Pamplona – Zariquiegui - 14
or
Pamplona – Uterga - 14
Zariquiegui - Puenta la Reina - 16
Puenta la Reina – Estella - 22

Bystander, I like your schedule so much I copied it for myself -- sounds like perfect start.

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible - shorter distances until the body is trail fit. What are those distances will vary from person to person.

On my first Camino (unfit, not a great walker, heavy pack) I aimed to start by doing less than 15km a day. That worked for me and over two weeks I became fitter. I was gradually able to walk longer distances without injury but 8 caminos later I still like to keep the kilometres down under 20km per day for the first couple of weeks. That's me.

I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

Menace is right! Brierly is bet suited to lighting fires and in a pinch, toilet paper.

 

[vegoodrich]

I second everyone who thinks following pre-determined stages is a bit like everyone trying to wear the same size pants! Some walk fast, some walk slow. Neither is 'right' or 'wrong' or 'better' or 'worse'. Someone walking 50km in a day might be smelling more roses than someone walking 10km and vice versa. Walk your own walk!!!!

I say this as one of the people that some here say were 'racers'. I think saying this about people who walk fast/long is as bad as someone saying someone only walking 10km should walk further/faster. I didn't walk fast or long for a bed or to get to a certain pre-determined location. I walked at my own pace and I liked walking the whole day (nice weather of October permitted this!). I met and talked to so many very different and beautiful people along the way, spent time in every open iglesia, and drank LOTS of cafe con leche. I'm still having withdrawal 2 weeks later

I met more than one peregrino who explained how I was doing it 'wrong' because I was walking 50km a day. I hope everyone remembers there is no wrong or right way to walk a trail.

Buen Camino!

 

[waveprof]

So lovely taking the baby with you! I must admit we have never taken a "Rest" day either by stopping for a day or just doing short distances We also tend to avoid the big cities.We tend to do about 25 km a day but with lots of cafe stops. Then we just rest at day's end at more cafes and just read or write.we don't do any cultural visits as these things have been done years ago and now we just want to walk!! I do however understand why many of those on the Camino wish to see museums etc but for us I'm afraid resting our limbs and feet is more important for us at this stage and I think that this, for us is why we have managed to avoid injury and blisters. Whatever floats the boat I suppose!!!

To be clear, we did museums and spent time in cities.....we just planned super short days into cities or out of cities (so that we didn't have to leave until afternoon)

 

[joe g texas aggies]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

Very good point about the daily wear and tear on one's body. Now I know why professional athletes, such as baseball players, have such a difficult time at the end of the season. Walking the Camino with a heavy pack is a grind.
When I went to sleep each night while on the Camino, I was sure that I would not be able to arise the next morning. But, I did.
My advice. Cut down on the weight you carry - to the maximum extent. Strengthen the muscles in your feet - all 152 of them in each foot. Pay a lot of attention to your shoes. I walked with custom orthotics in my shoes and I think that was a mistake. They were very hard. Parts of the Camino are very rocky and the orthotics transmitted the sharp pain straight into my feet and legs.

 

[Saint Mike II]

There are (imho) about as many opinions on "Camino Failure" as there are pilgrims. As one "who failed to complete - not Fail" I now believe to "over walking" on the early stages contributed to my problems. The first post by "bystander" I think nails the question of building up "Camino Fitness". Pack weight is also an issue but can be solved by reducing the weight (and sending stuff on ahead).
Due to my foot problems I recently completed the Frances Camino by cycle, however I would still like to return in (say) 2017 and try to walk some of "special stages" that I missed on the bike. But that plan is still a long way ahead. Buen Camino

 

[spursfan]

It should also be pointed out that you can avoid a lot of injury if you stretch before, during and after your walking (training, the Camino, post-Camino)! By doing only specific activity (walking) for so many hours in a day and for so many days (of walking so many hours in a day), the leg and thigh muscles get overused (and all the muscles and joints and ligaments connected to the legs...the whole body...OK, maybe not the arms!). Overused muscles can create an imbalance and injuries can then occur. Stretch for 10-15 minutes after a short warm up walk and a good amount of injuries will be bypassed.)

I seem to avoid injuries without doing any stretching - my idea of a warm-up is to start walking and my idea of a warm-down is to keep walking

Perhaps the real secret is to do lots of sleeping on top of the walking and almost nothing else during the Camino apart from a lunchtime break to change socks/shirt and get more liquid and an evening trip to the supermercado to fill up for the next day - no need for rest days either but maybe a slightly shorter day on Sundays

 

[bystander]

Bystander, I like your schedule so much I copied it for myself -- sounds like perfect start.

Imsundaze, I am flattered. Please let me know, if you use my schedule, how you get on and if you thereafter have recommendations or alterations to suggest.

My plan for getting to SJPdP is to get to Pamplona train station (I'm getting there from England by train via Barcelona) and then use the much recommended Corazon Puro taxi service (see: http://www.corazonpuro.es/Enghome.html ) to get there.

As to those who are against predetermined stopping points. I have deliberately for those first ten days decided to make myself stop at those places regardless of how easy I might be finding the first few days; i.e. without that schedule I might fool myself in to thinking I can go further and then land up blistering, spraining, over-exerting, etc myself and wreck my later progress. As said in my original post after the first ten days I will then go ad lib as to how far and where I will stop and stay.

 

[Lmsundaze]

Imsundaze, I am flattered. Please let me know, if you use my schedule, how you get on and if you thereafter have recommendations or alterations to suggest.

My plan for getting to SJPdP is to get to Pamplona train station (I'm getting there from England by train via Barcelona) and then use the much recommended Corazon Puro taxi service (see: http://www.corazonpuro.es/Enghome.html ) to get there.

As to those who are against predetermined stopping points. I have deliberately for those first ten days decided to make myself stop at those places regardless of how easy I might be finding the first few days; i.e. without that schedule I might fool myself in to thinking I can go further and then land up blistering, spraining, over-exerting, etc myself and wreck my later progress. As said in my original post after the first ten days I will then go ad lib as to how far and where I will stop and stay.

Bystander, I will let you know for sure. I am starting in April 2016. I also have the idea to make myself stop no matter how I feel. I live in a very flat place with no opportunity to train on hills (except for treadmills which can't simulate downhills.) I want to complete the camino, not get injured at the beginning. Thank you for your plan!

 

[jpflavin1]

A pre - Camino training regime will definitely help condition your feet and acclimate you to carry a pack. That said, it is not necessary and probably will not prepare you for the steep inclines and declines unless you are in a very hilly area.

My best advice, no better than anyone else's, is to start slowly and ease your body into walking shape. Pack as if there was a penalty for weight. That said, people should bring with them stuff that makes them comfortable even though you will learn you do not need it. Finally, just go with the flow of the Camino, listening to your body and enjoying the peace provided by the Camino environment.

In regards to Brierley's guide. I believe He wrote a guidebook that looks at a variety of conditions (accommodation, tradition, historical sites etc.) but mostly based on the Philosophy of walking the route in 33 days. One day for each year Jesus walked the Earth. This guide like all the others is just a suggestion.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Deise]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

Excellent advice - it is easy to get carried away early in the walk. I would not use the word "failure" though

 

[noway]

I see some resentment towards the racers – those kids just flying by, walking fast, walking long days and then you catch up with them at some point because they overdid it. You stroll by them quietly thinking “told you so”.

I would like to defend them (and my self a bit).

Remember those who you see that don’t make it of the racers, is probably significantly smaller sample size of the entire population of “racers”. Most of them pass you once, while you are sitting at café and you never see them again.

The other point is that people have vastly different reasons for walking the camino, and you should be careful about judging people on your values. I’ve heard countless people telling me that “you’ve missed the point of the camino”. Who are you to say? Walking fast, feeling alive and present in the humble act of walking, is that really worse than any other reason to walk the camino?

Also, not everyone has the luxury of talking 30-50 days off


So back to my previous post in this thread:

Failure reasons for Racers:
*Walking fast and long means that you might spend +12 hours from one Albergue to the next. That means that you get much more strain, than slower walkers. Long days also means less restitution during the night.
*Again the remedy is pre-camino training. You have to get several perpetual long days of pre-camino walking before you leave home, so that your body gets used to this kind of walking
*Instead of walking fast for 22 days, consider walking 10% longer each day for 20 days, and take to whole days of rest. That will help a lot with your body recovering.
*The 3 fast walkers that I met and that I had to leave (not sure if they made it), all did the same huge mistake. They took painkillers during the day. NEVER TO THAT! It does not solve the problem, just stops your body from sending the signal.

Failure for slower walkers:
*I still believe that pre-camino walking is the key. Walking is great! I saw many new things in my local walks. It wasn’t a hassle – I loved it. If you choose not to walk in advance, then you have to do as the original poster advocates: walk slow in the beginning. Gradually getting your body used to it.

 

[Annette london]

I see some resentment towards the racers – those kids just flying by, walking fast, walking long days and then you catch up with them at some point because they overdid it. You stroll by them quietly thinking “told you so”.

I would like to defend them (and my self a bit).

Remember those who you see that don’t make it of the racers, is probably significantly smaller sample size of the entire population of “racers”. Most of them pass you once, while you are sitting at café and you never see them again.

The other point is that people have vastly different reasons for walking the camino, and you should be careful about judging people on your values. I’ve heard countless people telling me that “you’ve missed the point of the camino”. Who are you to say? Walking fast, feeling alive and present in the humble act of walking, is that really worse than any other reason to walk the camino?

Also, not everyone has the luxury of talking 30-50 days off


So back to my previous post in this thread:

Failure reasons for Racers:
*Walking fast and long means that you might spend +12 hours from one Albergue to the next. That means that you get much more strain, than slower walkers. Long days also means less restitution during the night.
*Again the remedy is pre-camino training. You have to get several perpetual long days of pre-camino walking before you leave home, so that your body gets used to this kind of walking
*Instead of walking fast for 22 days, consider walking 10% longer each day for 20 days, and take to whole days of rest. That will help a lot with your body recovering.
*The 3 fast walkers that I met and that I had to leave (not sure if they made it), all did the same huge mistake. They took painkillers during the day. NEVER TO THAT! It does not solve the problem, just stops your body from sending the signal.

Failure for slower walkers:
*I still believe that pre-camino walking is the key. Walking is great! I saw many new things in my local walks. It wasn’t a hassle – I loved it. If you choose not to walk in advance, then you have to do as the original poster advocates: walk slow in the beginning. Gradually getting your body used to it.

Yes I certainly agree with your new second post and that people walk the Camino for different reasons and not everybody walks as a pilgrim but for the sheer joy of walking as you say.we just love to walk and the Camino France's in particular. As for the " racers" well I am about 5 ft in height and with a bit more weight than I would like but I walk very fast, not because I am in a rush but because I am comfortable with that especially when listening to the music that gives a spring in the step. We never met then with any disapprovalor at least we were not aware of it and most people passed us out time and time again anyway as we liked to have so many cafe con leches! so it would become a running joke so to speak. So yes I do get tired of people judging re " the point of the Camino". It's each individual's own business as to why and how they walk the way. So now everyone--- quick,slow,quick,quick slow!!

 

[MTtoCamino]

The OP like most of you is making a very good point. It is better to start slow with no pain. I was 2 days ahead of him in 2014. We kept in touch as we walked for the first couple weeks. I agree I saw more folks having issues by simply not slowing down.
I also agree that if you can train before you leave your body will thank you & you will have a much more enjoyable time.
Buen Camino
Keith

 

[MTtoCamino]

I see some resentment towards the racers – those kids just flying by, walking fast, walking long days and then you catch up with them at some point because they overdid it. You stroll by them quietly thinking “told you so”.

I would like to defend them (and my self a bit).

Remember those who you see that don’t make it of the racers, is probably significantly smaller sample size of the entire population of “racers”. Most of them pass you once, while you are sitting at café and you never see them again.

The other point is that people have vastly different reasons for walking the camino, and you should be careful about judging people on your values. I’ve heard countless people telling me that “you’ve missed the point of the camino”. Who are you to say? Walking fast, feeling alive and present in the humble act of walking, is that really worse than any other reason to walk the camino?

Also, not everyone has the luxury of talking 30-50 days off


So back to my previous post in this thread:

Failure reasons for Racers:
*Walking fast and long means that you might spend +12 hours from one Albergue to the next. That means that you get much more strain, than slower walkers. Long days also means less restitution during the night.
*Again the remedy is pre-camino training. You have to get several perpetual long days of pre-camino walking before you leave home, so that your body gets used to this kind of walking
*Instead of walking fast for 22 days, consider walking 10% longer each day for 20 days, and take to whole days of rest. That will help a lot with your body recovering.
*The 3 fast walkers that I met and that I had to leave (not sure if they made it), all did the same huge mistake. They took painkillers during the day. NEVER TO THAT! It does not solve the problem, just stops your body from sending the signal.

Failure for slower walkers:
*I still believe that pre-camino walking is the key. Walking is great! I saw many new things in my local walks. It wasn’t a hassle – I loved it. If you choose not to walk in advance, then you have to do as the original poster advocates: walk slow in the beginning. Gradually getting your body used to it.

I think if you know your body & your limits all is good. You remind me of a 30 something Welshman who was walking 50k a day. Had a 30L day pack, it was his 3rd Camino Francis & basically ran marathons to train for his yearly pilgrimage. He could only get 14 days off so it was his way, his faith that pushed him along what seemed effortless distance. He was an exceptional person.
For the rest of us we simply do the best we can. Slow down & have a cervasa energy drink.
Keith

 

[MTtoCamino]

I totally agree with Kanga that John Brierley and the others do folks a real disservice with the arbitrary "stages" in the guides.
I had not thought about it before as I have no problems with the distances.
But..after thinking about what Kanga posted..I can see how it would be a real source of discouragement and overdoing by newer pilgrims.
Guides without "expected" or " normal" stopping points would be a good thing.

Unfortunately the guide is the only reference many have. I used it as new walker to determine what minimum distance on average was needed to complete the walk from SJPDP to Finnesterre then onto Madrid by whatever means found 46 days. I figured I had to walk 25k a day & I would take days off. So I trained for 25 k per day. The part no one can figure in is what a person will do. As in life we never can predict our future. Same as the walk. So do the best you can, some folks take 60 days, bottom line just do the best you can with no pain. Fix as you go.
Some like me get done 10 days ahead of what was expected some later than expected. None of that is important. The Camino continues after you arrive at your destination please enjoy it with no pain
Keith

 

[grayland]

Actually, I think the problem is that many people read the guide with the suggested stages and think that they are expected to do those distances.
Many are simply not able to do this. Others can do the distances with great effort and discomfort. A huge amount of discouragement and sense of failure is involved with false expectations.
Most pilgrims are not on this forum and do not benefit from the advice here to disregard the suggested stages.
I say we should have a book burning!! Get the pitchforks and torches out!!

 

[JennyH94]

I say we should have a book burning!! Get the pitchforks and torches out!!

Hi grayland - your suggestion is most timely! Guy Fawkes Night is only a couple of nights away! If there's a community Bonfire happening locally, it's a great opportunity to swing by and do some guidebook de-cluttering while enjoying the spectacle at the same time! Note to self: no toasting of marshmallows near the burning guidebooks!
Cheers!

 

[newfydog]

It should also be pointed out that you can avoid a lot of injury if you stretch before, during and after your walking

The Injury Factor
In 2004, a report published by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) questioned the efficacy of stretching, noting that more than 350 studies conducted over four decades had failed to establish that stretching prior to activity prevents injury. To date, studies have also failed to prove that stretching after exercise prevents muscle soreness.
----------------------------------------------------------
In a study published in 2000, Dr. Herbert Pope concluded that stretching before physical activity had no effect on injury frequency in athletes (Med Sci Sports Exercise, 2000; 32 (2): 271-277).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stretching does not live up to its reputation as an injury preventer, a study has found.

“We could not find a benefit,” said Stephen B. Thacker, director of the epidemiology program office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Athletes who stretch might feel more limber, but they shouldn’t count on stretching to keep them healthy, he said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stretching before exercising could actually CAUSE an injury - and make you slower

• Static stretching – where limbs are extended and held in a position for a period of time – is particularly bad
• Stretching loosens the muscles and tendons, making them less powerful and more prone to injury

 

[Annette london]

The Injury Factor
In 2004, a report published by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) questioned the efficacy of stretching, noting that more than 350 studies conducted over four decades had failed to establish that stretching prior to activity prevents injury. To date, studies have also failed to prove that stretching after exercise prevents muscle soreness.
----------------------------------------------------------
In a study published in 2000, Dr. Herbert Pope concluded that stretching before physical activity had no effect on injury frequency in athletes (Med Sci Sports Exercise, 2000; 32 (2): 271-277).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stretching does not live up to its reputation as an injury preventer, a study has found.

“We could not find a benefit,” said Stephen B. Thacker, director of the epidemiology program office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Athletes who stretch might feel more limber, but they shouldn’t count on stretching to keep them healthy, he said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stretching before exercising could actually CAUSE an injury - and make you slower

• Static stretching – where limbs are extended and held in a position for a period of time – is particularly bad
• Stretching loosens the muscles and tendons, making them less powerful and more prone to injury

Read this many years ago in various journals and apart from the finances, we have never stretched in 40 years of walking " up hill and down dale" and so far so good.

 

[NavyBlue]

In 2004, a report published by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) [...]

Hello,

ACSM look to have changed their recommendations in the mean time (2012) :
https://www.acsm.org/public-information/articles/2012/02/02/improving-your-flexibility-and-balance

"ACSM guidelines recommend that stretching activities be done at least two days per week."

BTW, I have never seen a difference between the days I stretch or not after walking. Maybe I don't do it well enough ??

 

[jpflavin1]

Actually, I think the problem is that many people read the guide with the suggested stages and think that they are expected to do those distances.
Many are simply not able to do this. Others can do the distances with great effort and discomfort. A huge amount of discouragement and sense of failure is involved with false expectations.
Most pilgrims are not on this forum and do not benefit from the advice here to disregard the suggested stages.
I say we should have a book burning!! Get the pitchforks and torches out!!

Grayland:

Burning books is a slippery slope.

Joe

 

[MTtoCamino]

It is quite interesting how we know there are issues with the Brierley guide yet it still is not something I would choose to part with. I was wishing I had the Finnesterre version when leaving Santiago. I understand the German guide will be available soon in English so it will be fun to compare. I think overall it still beats other forms of information such as maps alone. The only notes I kept are in it. Burning is not even a consideration.

 

[newfydog]

Hello,

ACSM look to have changed their recommendations in the mean time (2012) :
https://www.acsm.org/public-information/articles/2012/02/02/improving-your-flexibility-and-balance

"ACSM guidelines recommend that stretching activities be done at least two days per week."

BTW, I have never seen a difference between the days I stretch or not after walking. Maybe I don't do it well enough ??

Yeah, but for reasons other than injury prevention, which was the urban legend I was refuting.

I have friend, a physician who worked at the US Olympic training center, who definitely acknowledges that no scientific, double blind study has shown stretching to prevent injuries, but he still does some stretching simply because it makes him feel better.

Anyway, I've enjoyed several Caminos with no stretching or Brierley guide!

 

[spursfan]

Happy to defend the Brierley book - as his defined stages do end in the places with the most facilities - and, as some have posted, allows one to choose a contrary approach - his detailed maps, including some town plans, and stage profiles plus dstances adjust for climbs are really valuable ingredients for all pilgrims

But you can take contrariness of stage endings to extremes - the red German guide for the Norte has a stage ending in Sebrayu with an albergue and very little else

For those of us who have a limited number of days to walk and hence do need to plan stages ahead the red German guide for the Norte also has intermediate distances and suggested timings - even if you don't follow these timings you can scale them by your walking pace to see how long each stage will take at your chosen walking pace

 

[Robo]

Happy to defend the Brierley book - as his defined stages do end in the places with the most facilities - and, as some have posted, allows one to choose a contrary approach - his detailed maps, including some town plans, and stage profiles plus dstances adjust for climbs are really valuable ingredients for all pilgrims

I agree. I found the guide very useful. It allowed me to plan my days according to my ability at the time. Though I found Miam Miam Dodo much better for 'non Albergue' accommodation listings. (But its maps are of little use). I scanned both guides and had them on my phone. (Large screen Galaxy Note) and I carried the fold out 'cover' of the Brierly guide for planning purposes. It's nice to be able to fold it out and see the whole route.

 

[Annette london]

I agree. I found the guide very useful. It allowed me to plan my days according to my ability at the time. Though I found Miam Miam Dodo much better for 'non Albergue' accommodation listings. (But its maps are of little use). I scanned both guides and had them on my phone. (Large screen Galaxy Note) and I carried the fold out 'cover' of the Brierly guide for planning purposes. It's nice to be able to fold it out and see the whole route.

Yes we did the same thing.We just photocopied the profile pages for heights etc and general mileage but found the Miam Miam much better re accommodation. It was also not too diffucilt to work out the mileage on the Miami Miami do do. It's always better to get a new yearly one as so many albergues are opening each year and all are listed in this. It was good for us as a few places were full once or twice and we had the phone nos on the Miam to move on a few km. found a few real eccentric places too in tiny hamlets. We try to cut down on guidebooks anyway as everything is "weight"

 

[J F Gregory]

This is an interesting thread. I walk 15 miles Monday-Friday. and my wife works out and is in fit condition. I am not young and in a hurry even though we have 36 days to complete our walk. I have learned not too get too excited about distance, as long as we average about 21 km a day and if we don't we have a taxi or bus to the next albergue. My Camino is about a change of life journey for me and if I complete the entire thing or not is not important. Yes I want Santiago to part of my journey as the destination lies further down my road. Be safe my friends.
Ultreya
Buen Camino

 

[tploomis]

It was easy in the beginning for me to push myself further than was good for me. I was a slower walker, and frequently had the sensation of the pack of people behind me surging over me like a wave. I got anxious and started thinking I needed to go faster and further. Nothing was further from the truth. What I really needed was to know myself and hike within my comfort zone. Fortunately, I learned that lesson on the Camino in time to slow down and walk my walk, not someone else's. Now that the Camino is long over, I find the same applies to other aspects of my life as well.

 

[november_moon]

Its just a guide, not a procedure

We started in Leon and were "off-stage" by day 2. I read through the Bierley guide before walking and decided that some of those stages were nuts. We figured that averaging 20-25 km/day was sufficient, and where we ended up was where we ended up.

 

[JohnMcM]

Its just a guide, not a procedure

....................................where we ended up was where we ended up.

Just loving this attitude.
Buen (do it your way) Camino

 

[Botaivica]

I am part of the group who does not train, and I am short and heavy so you might think it would be mandatory for me to train. And perhaps if you have a specific goal in mind, such as "must walk the whole thing in 20 days" you do, but I just put a foot in front of the other and also plan to make what is "supposed to be" a 15 etapa walk kn 18.
So, back to waht will ensure failure: not drinking enough, not getting sun protection, not visiting your podiatrist to make sure your chosen footwear is well suited to you and get orthotics if needed, not "oiling" your feet in the am to prevent blisters, as well as other areas prone to chaffing, trying to keep up with people you've met who are not walking at your pace. Not having enough Cafe con leche and too much wine

Hi Anemone

I am also supporter going to the Camino without training.
Why do I must have to train 2 months, walk 1000 km in that two months and after that go walking Camino?
I will go to the Camino and walk every day as far as I can.
On Camino I do not want any pressure, I do not want stress, I do not want anything that begins with "I must ...."
Even, I have to drink a beer

 

[Kanga]

Ah, the beer. Now that is something I could enjoy training for.

 

[Botaivica]

Ah, the beer. Now that is something I could enjoy training for.

I prefer wine but I read this that Spanish beer is great. Even if they have dark beer I will certainly have to think over.

 

[alexwalker]

Ah, the beer. Now that is something I could enjoy training for.

I must admit: The morning coffee is a great startup for me. But being in Spain, and when the heat sets in, at 11-ish, sitting down outside a cafe with my backpack and shoes off, enjoying an ice cold cerveza (occationally two, and a cigarette, I must admit) and then move on in peace, is a treat. Will get me going effortlessly for another 6-10 kms.

 

[Kanga]

I know this is mentally disturbing for some (including my husband) but on my last camino, on hot days, I developed a taste for "cerveza limón".

I think we have completely derailed this thread. It may be that the "single greatest threat to failure" is our taste for wine, beer and other alcoholic concoctions.

Back to the OP's very sensible information and advice.

 

[november_moon]

I think that it is important to train, but others disagree, and that's totally fine. To me, the physical fitness part of training is only half the story. The other half is about making sure you know what works for you and what doesn't, such as with your shoes and socks. Everybody has different feet with different needs, but if you haven't trained (assuming you aren't a hiker to begin with), how would you know what works for you? Same with your pack - you might get lucky right off the bat, but you might not. Some people are fine with just going and letting it happen. Others are more comfortable doing some field testing first.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The other half is about making sure you know what works for you and what doesn't, such as with your shoes and socks. Everybody has different feet with different needs, but if you haven't trained (assuming you aren't a hiker to begin with), how would you know what works for you?.

It really matters little if you walk 10 km twice a week for months "training" because it simply will never compare to the day, afater day, after day, after day, walking twice, or thrice the distance. Also equipment you start waering out while "training" may get damge then and let you down when you need it. The only way, imo, to test what works for you on a Camino is to walk one.

Now, regarding strange tastes while on route, @Kanga , the only time I crave for a beer is at the end of a rest of the time I cannot stand it!

 

[Urban Trekker]

I have an old(er) friend and mentor who swears by the adage: start slow and then taper

 

[november_moon]

It really matters little if you walk 10 km twice a week for months "training" because it simply will never compare to the day, afater day, after day, after day, walking twice, or thrice the distance.

Of course not. I didn't mean to imply that it did. I still maintain that some amount of field testing of equipment is better than none at all. You disagree, which is fine. Its just a different approach.

Also equipment you start waering out while "training" may get damge then and let you down when you need it.

Or you could have an infant mortality failure with your equipment that could have been discovered during training before arriving on the Camino. Most outdoor equipment is pretty hearty though - as long as it is in good shape before you go, you're probably going to be fine. Shoes and socks have a finite life, so if your shoes and socks are worn from training, then get new ones before you go - but you'll already know what works and can replace them in kind. Again, its just a different approach.

The only way, imo, to test what works for you on a Camino is to walk one.

While there are some things you can't predict ahead of time or sort out through training, there are quite a few things that you can - which means fewer issues to deal with on the Camino. This is the approach that I prefer. Everybody should do what works for them.

 

[Botaivica]

I must admit: The morning coffee is a great startup for me. But being in Spain, and when the heat sets in, at 11-ish, sitting down outside a cafe with my backpack and shoes off, enjoying an ice cold cerveza (occationally two, and a cigarette, I must admit) and then move on in peace, is a treat. Will get me going effortlessly for another 6-10 kms.

Hi alexwalker

let's made consensus, after breakfast coffee, after lunch beer and after dinner wine

 

[alexwalker]

Hi alexwalker

let's made consensus, after breakfast coffee, after lunch beer and after dinner wine

I'm in. Seriously. Reminds me of the inscription on a tombsotne once:

"He lived a long life without alcohol, tobacco and women, until death came as a relief."

PS: I love your signature.

 

[Kablois]

I think that you're being too pessimistic about the possibility of getting hurt - over time I've learned what combination of shoes and socks give me no blisters, made my pack super-light and perfected my diet of chocolate and Aquarius - I walk for an hour at home most days and can walk for up to four hours without thinking - so I don't do anything special and start walking my target distance once I start my Camino - as long as I trim my overall pace I can then walk 8-10 hours per day without any problems

It really does depend when you walk. 8 hours a day on the Meseta in August (which is when I did it) is simply not possible because of the heat. Sunstroke is a very real and dangerous threat. The camino is full of all sorts of walkers and everyone has to do what suits them best. I wholeheartedly agree with the initial advice - personally I did not exceed 17km in the first week and never exceeded 26km. I arrived in Santiago according to schedule, feeling fitter than I had in years.

 

[spursfan]

It really does depend when you walk. 8 hours a day on the Meseta in August (which is when I did it) is simply not possible because of the heat. Sunstroke is a very real and dangerous threat. The camino is full of all sorts of walkers and everyone has to do what suits them best. I wholeheartedly agree with the initial advice - personally I did not exceed 17km in the first week and never exceeded 26km. I arrived in Santiago according to schedule, feeling fitter than I had in years.

I typically walk in May and September - the day I walked into Santander it was 34C - the main problem in the previous week was not sunstroke but getting enough liquid on the Norte - I was drinking something like 0.75L per hour

 

[Christian Hiriart]

Its just a guide, not a procedure

We started in Leon and were "off-stage" by day 2. I read through the Bierley guide before walking and decided that some of those stages were nuts. We figured that averaging 20-25 km/day was sufficient, and where we ended up was where we ended up.

That is my plan as well November moon. I believe in listening to my body which normally tells me that 20 kilometres is enough, time for shower, meal and vino wherever the 20 k mark happen to be.

 

[Darlene Matheson]

Blimey people, can we get off the comparisons roller-coaster? It's obvious that some people can do the Camino in very fast time and are comfortable with it. Others are not. The OP's advice is very sensible - shorter distances until the body is trail fit. What are those distances will vary from person to person.

On my first Camino (unfit, not a great walker, heavy pack) I aimed to start by doing less than 15km a day. That worked for me and over two weeks I became fitter. I was gradually able to walk longer distances without injury but 8 caminos later I still like to keep the kilometres down under 20km per day for the first couple of weeks. That's me.

I sometimes think Brierley and other guides are a complete menace because they set expectations of "normal" stages. There are no normals! Humanity is infinitely varied.

 

[Deleted member 50230]

I wish I would have read your advice before my Camino, I ended with knee tendonisis after 1 week becasue of walking too much too fast. I am Still recovering from it two monthes after, and it should take another two for it too heal completey.

 

[Georgina77]

I went on my first Camino this year and we did only 147k in 12 days any way That may not seem like a lot to all those who have done the whole Camino but it was my limite and all I could manage with my health issues I did enjoy the Camino very much and would very much like to give the whole thing another shot But I am so glad that I had the oportunity to go with my son and do what we did this summer and that I got an idea of what it is all about and what I need to do in order for me to improve my self enough to have a fighting chance to do the whole thing should I be able to return in the future which I hope to do some time in 2017 after my 70th BD I would like to start from SJCF and see how far I get from there Hopefully my son will come with me again

 

[tpmchugh]

Got back from my second Camino Frances and thought I would share something that might help increase the chance of completing your next Camino: start out slow and doing lower mileage for at least a week. Last year I hiked with young and not so young folks who decided for whatever reason that they needed to do big miles and hike fast enough to stay with a particular group of people. A lot of them ended up with all sorts of overuse injuries. This year I hiked intermittently with folks that were strong hikers but ended up exceeding their physiologic limits; a surprisingly large number of them ended up going home, at a local Spanish medical clinic and/or taking the bus for long stretches of the Camino.
Hiking on the weekend or for an hour or two in the evenings is excellent training but it is a lot different than hiking for days on end for 6 to 8 hours a day with a pack. Be patient with yourself that first week and you will greatly increase your chances of getting to Santiago.
PS If you do not have enough time to get to Finisterre or Muxia try starting closer to Santiago instead of trying to do 10 stages in 6 days to make up the time. Some folks can pull it off but you greatly increase your chances of getting hurt.

I started out slow but unfortunately that is my usual speed. 66, overweight and minimum training, poco poco was how I went. But as you say, I saw people faster and fitter have to give up. I caught up with people who looked amazed when they seen me approach and wondered how I was doing it. They had never heard the story of the tortoise and the hare . Slow plodding mostly on my own got me to Santiago from St Jean. At Mercadoiro I teamed up with an American combat chaplain. At Monte do gozo he thanked me for slowing him down as he had learned to enjoy the last few stages more than the rest of the camino. He phoned his wife in San Diego and she thanked me too. I felt really great having actually helped someone. Took me 38 days but enjoyed every slow low mileage day and came home without a blister to my name. A slightly sore back from an injury suffered when I jarred my back when slipping of a rock while heading up to Rabanal but not bad enough to stop me

 

[trevorcc]

The only failure is not to start, oh and don't forget to smile ...

 

[Strand]

I see a lot of people who are planning their camino being afraid of "failing". And there are so many tips coming from everyone who wants to help that the number#1 focus point sometimes gets lost.

Is it the dreaded blisters, the heavy backpack or the wrong shoees?

I walked the Camino Frances in 22 days (including 2 rest days). I'm not very fit 38 year old, I smoked sigarets, drank beer and wine every day. I never did much sports as a kid, I was the chess and piano playing geek. How did I do it?

2 months of dedicated pre-camino training.

You skip this and your failure rate increases by over 100% in my opinion.

What do you need to train and for how long?

Core: Walking with a backpack for so long is a strain on your back. The best way to avoide back pains is to strengthen your belly. Two months with some kind of sit-up/core regiment will do wonders. Youtube will help you find some exercises. Training core is especially important if you are +40 and do not consider yourself to be in form

Legs/feet/stamina: Get the shoes you plan to walk the camino in and start walking with a 8kg backpack (this is the absolute maximum you should carry with you) at least 8 weeks before departure. In this time you should have walked half the actual distance you plan to walk during the camino.

In order to count km during the training period you should only count the extra walking you do (not counting walking to and back from the sub-way) and only count stretches above 10km. The point of this training is to activate your smaller musceles and ligaments so that you don’t get inflammation etc in these.

Another huge advantage is that your back and feet gets used to carrying that weight and your feet gets used to your shoees.

Lets say you plan to walk 800km in 32 days. That is about 25km per day. Your training should consist of walking 400km over 8 weeks. Week#1 your goal is to walk an average dayly stage of 25km, then you gradually increase each weeks stretch with a fixed percentage so that you total 400km in 8 weeks. For this particular example that would be a weekly increase of 20%. It is up to you how you spread out those km for each week, but remember to only count walks that are above 10km.

Example of total km per week for a 8 week traning program for the Camino Frances:

1. 25km
2. 30km
3. 36km
4. 42km
5. 50km
6. 60km
7. 72km
8. 85km

So the first week you could do 1 day of 10km and 1 day of 15km
The last week you would have to do 10km every day from monday to friday to saturday and then maybe a 25km on sunday.

If this sounds like much then just start 10 weeks in advanced and your weekly increase is 10%:

1. 25km
2. 28km
3. 30km
4. 33km
5. 37km
6. 40km
7. 45km
8. 49km
9. 54km
10. 59km

So this post got a bit longer that i planned, but I really atribute my "success" last year to a strict pre-camino walking schedule. I really hope anyone who is planning their first camino takes my advice on this.

kind regards,
nowere

WOW. This sounds scary. We walk twice per week is 7km uphill hike. obvious not the ideal preparations for our walk next year in May. We planning to upt our training from December onwards. We dont have the time to do the extensive training that you did. We can only train over weekends. We have heared that you do get fit as you going along.

 

[Kanga]

@Strand I doubt many would have prepared anywhere as much as noway - but then he only took 22 days. I often take 36 days from SJPDP to Santiago. Often I have done virtually no training and I've never failed to make it. It does mean the first few weeks are much tougher, but it can be done. Just shorten the kilometres for the first weeks. I stick to under 20 km - often only 15 km (if depends a bit on accommodation) for the first week, and slowly increase to about 25. I try to keep it at about that.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I am part of the group who does not train, and I am short and heavy so you might think it would be mandatory for me to train. And perhaps if you have a specific goal in mind, such as "must walk the whole thing in 20 days" you do, but I just put a foot in front of the other and also plan to make what is "supposed to be" a 15 etapa walk kn 18.

On my second CF this tall, young, thin creature asked me one morning if I was going all the way to X town, and I said no, I'm stopping in Y, X is too much for me. Her response: oh, you can do it, just try. .... Never saw her again until the morning walking into Santiago, by the airport, knees bandaged. Turns put she had to take a number of days off to nurse her knees. Not me !

On the Primi last fall I stopped in Esclampero (10km) and took the time to visit the Naranco monuments, instead of pushing to Grado (20?) or San Juan (27?). Didn't say at Alejandro's Albergue despite how amazing the experience is said to be because I passed it at 10 am because I chose a shorter day the day before, but so be it.

And if I may, I don't think the etapas suggested in the guides are arbitrary, I think they are based on where the greatest number of beds and services can be found, which for the vast majority is important. Poor Brierly. But right, it doesn't make these mandatory, far from it.

So, back to waht will ensure failure: not drinking enough, not getting sun protection, not visiting your podiatrist to make sure your chosen footwear is well suited to you and get orthotics if needed, not "oiling" your feet in the am to prevent blisters, as well as other areas prone to chaffing, trying to keep up with people you've met who are not walking at your pace. Not having enough Cafe con leche and too much wine

I absolutely, absolutely, absolutely agree with everything you have written here.

Sometime back on the trail, a young gentleman split off from a woman he had been walking with. She was rather angry, and felt that he was deserting her. Not at all, he said. It's that I came to walk the Camino. I didn't come to walk with another person.

Several times during my Camino, I had people who would encourage me to speed up. Nope. I told them they were welcome to move on, but that my pace was uniquely my own, and I wasn't willing to injure myself.

On a few occasions, I had some delightful people deliberately walk slowly to spend time with me. After a bit of time together, they would graciously give me a farewell and move on!

Time and again, I have seen young people with horrible blisters and injuries because they were racing. Not this old lady. Two blisters the whole trip, which healed quickly and turned into good working calluses. Not this old lady. Two blisters the whole trip, which healed quickly and turned into good working calluses. I do limp around at night, and I don't do well without shoes on.

Anyway, good thread. I think that some good hikes in three months before Camino would be helpful for most people. I did hikes with 20 pounds on my back, and I'm sure that helped a lot.

 

[NavyBlue]

I have seen young people with horrible blisters and injuries because they were racing

You're spot on, CaminoDebrita.

In fact, among the seven capital sins on the Camino :
- gluttony is tolerated, you need energy !
- Sloth ? You wouln't be there.
- Lust is not a realistic option, you're too tired.
- Etc.
- But pride is the most dangerous one, by far : it might send you directly to the hospital !

 

[Victoria_Peregrina]

I did my first Camino in April-May 2015. I allowed myself plenty of time and never had to rush. I walked from Roncesvalles to Santiago in six weeks, with the average of 18 km/day. My longest distance was 26 km; the shortest one was 5 km, by design, on the day I have arrived to Santiago.

During the first few days, my average distance was over 20 km, but later I slowed down because it was more enjoyable to take my time.

HOWEVER, on my second Camino in 2016, I would like to walk the Napoleon Route. Even if I stay in Orison, the day from Orison to Roncesvalles is brutal. How do you reconcile the need to start it easy with the Napoleonic complex?

Victoria

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I did my first Camino in April-May 2015. I allowed myself plenty of time and never had to rush. I walked from Roncesvalles to Santiago in six weeks, with the average of 18 km/day. My longest distance was 26 km; the shortest one was 5 km, by design, on the day I have arrived to Santiago.

During the first few days, my average distance was over 20 km, but later I slowed down because it was more enjoyable to take my time.

HOWEVER, on my second Camino in 2016, I would like to walk the Napoleon Route. Even if I stay in Orison, the day from Orison to Roncesvalles is brutal. How do you reconcile the need to start it easy with the Napoleonic complex?

Victoria

Hi Victoria – – the way that I worked it out, personally, and I can only speak for what worked for me – – is that I did 13 k hikes in a very mountainous and rigorous area for several months prior that specific challenge.

In fact, I trained vigorously and specifically for the walk from SJPP to Roncesvalles. If you do lots of Steep hill hikes, it will help you to prepare for that. Reconciling anything on the Camino? There's no reconciling.

Train for that specific challenge, and because you've done the Camino before, you know how to do the distances. It sounds like you know exactly how to do them.

I made sure to carry the latest pack that I could. 8 kg is what I carried over the mountains. I also carried hard candies to suck on, and made sure that my bad weather gear was readily available.

Anyway, best of luck, and I think you will do very well.

Deb

 

[Victoria_Peregrina]

Hi Victoria – – the way that I worked it out, personally, and I can only speak for what worked for me – – is that I did 13 k hikes in a very mountainous and rigorous area for several months prior that specific challenge.
...
Anyway, best of luck, and I think you will do very well.

Deb

Thank you, Deb! I did some training prior to my first Camino, but to prepare for the Napoleon route, I will need to find some steep hills.

Victoria

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Thank you, Deb! I did some training prior to my first Camino, but to prepare for the Napoleon route, I will need to find some steep hills.

Victoria

If you don't have hills or mountains in your area, you can always go to the gym and put your machine on incline, but it just isn't quite as good. You really need to walk on some really mountainous terrain as you do it, though a lot of the walk is on paved road. When you get to the cross and head onto the trail, it gets quite a bit more authentic – – in terms of feeling like you're crossing over the past – – and then, of course, the downhill into Roncesvalles can be a huge challenge. When I was just sending, it was raining pretty hard with a lot of mast, so the trail was muddy and slippery. Really watch your step on those rocks.


Walking poles were an absolute lifesaver, and those who were walking without them were wishing they had them! I'm talking about people who were giving me all sorts of reasons for not having and using them…

Also, some of the short term walkers don't want to put out the money for poles because they figure they aren't on the trail that long. One good friend of mine didn't have poles, and was stopping at Pamplona, but she was really suffering. It was hard to hear her complain about knee pain and look tentative as she walked…

However, I had trained with two poles, and I was not inclined to share on that kind of a stretch. I'm happy to be a Camino Angel, but not when it comes to gear that prevents me from getting hurt! And especially when I have a 500 mile walk going on.

So...poles, practice, great gear, your own pace, the rest step! You will love the beautiful views. The Napoleon route is definitely not to be missed!

 

[Kanga]

Eh, I think you may mean walking poles, not pools @CaminoDebrita .... unless there is some new magic I haven't tried yet! Maybe we need to start a thread; "Best predictive text on the forum". It could be fun.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

With the Comercialisation of the Camino you will find cab drivers from SJPP happy to help ypu on and off the mountain. Book an appointment for them to pick you up at Km X, drive you back down to Y, and back up the next day. That is until the statue, after that... downhill, you're on your own.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Eh, I think you may mean walking poles, not pools @CaminoDebrita .... unless there is some new magic I haven't tried yet! Maybe we need to start a thread; "Best predictive text on the forum". It could be fun.

I had to closely edit that one! I'm on 32 hours of travel and stuck in New York. No outgoing flights as their electricity is gone off, so I'm using dictation, and you know what that means! Pools pools pools !