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Stupid question?

V

VALERIE SIBSON

Guest
Hi Everyone,
Starting from SJPDP on 9th Sept. And going all the way to SdC so last minute prep well underway! But here's the thing - I intend to use Nikwax spray on waterproofing for my backpack, but also note the suggestion to treat it with permethrin against the (potential) bed bugs; but which comes first?
Thanks for all the great advice on here which has assisted greatly with my planning. Feeling anxious but soooo excited to be starting in 20 days. Yikes!!! Hope to meet many of you along the way. Buen Camino everyone.
 
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Waterproofing first.
 
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Cover for back pack , first and foremost
You will be very unlucky if you encounter bedbugs.
250,000 people walk per annum........how many have complained ?
You will get rain however , at the start not likely.........Galicia in October....1000%
Have a great time and when the worst happens think of the kids in hospital .
Buen Camino
 
Don't expect much from waterproofing. In heavy rain you will need a pack cover or poncho. In light rain most packs are already waterproof. Regardless, pack items that need to stay dry in ziplok bags. Moisture can build up from your back or inside a poncho, and items may become damp.
 
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I agree, 'water-proofing' your backpack will not do much and the interaction between the two products is an unknown. Buen Camino, SY
 

Having owned various pack over the years. I will at some point have washed them in the bath to keep them clean and from experience you general can fill a pack full of water with either no or minimum leakage. I have never used a pack cover and have successfully used plastic shopping bags for gear storage and have never suffered from wet or damp gear. I would say you are better of with a pack liner either shop bought or a bin liner.
 
Last edited:
Hi Valerie, as already stated use a pack cover.
Wish you a wonderful journey and a Buen Camino, Peter.
 
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You can also find liners for your bag which I used, together with a built-in pack cover. Everything stayed dry. Wish you Buen Camino.
 
Hi All,
Many thanks for all of your replies. What I should have pointed out is that the waterproofing is for the straps that won't be covered by my pack cover but I was intending to go belt and braces and give the whole pack the 'once over'. I do have dry sacks for gear stowing also. And permethrin is also an extra layer of protection - ain't no sucker hitching a ride from me no way no how!!! However, your responses have reassured me more that all will be well so thank you all. See you on the way. Buen Camino x
 
Sounds like you're all set Valerie - Buen Camino. I'll be starting from Burgos a couple of weeks after you - let's hope that we don't need our rain protection or our bed bug defences
 
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VALERIE SIBSON said:
And permethrin is also an extra layer of protection - ain't no sucker hitching a ride from me no way no how!!!
Click to expand...
A large airtight bag (plastic garbage bag, or a big dry bag) is better protection for your pack in the albergue. Shake it or brush it off in the morning and put it in a ziplock bag. Most important is to do the heat treatments at the end of your camino as outlined by @SYates in this thread.
 
Yes, I wanted to thank SYates for the great information regarding DE-Bed-Bugging once you get home. That really had not crossed my mind; I mean really, did I just think if those little leeches had hitched a ride with me someplace along the way, that they would just say good bye at the airport?? Yes, a "newbie" for sure. I have printed out her tips, my bag will hit the balcony in its extra bag when I get home, and I will stand in the shower, shoes and all. However, being optimistic and hoping for no hitch hikers. Does the permethrin really work? Been Camino
 
Permethrin is considered a bed bug repellent (scaring them away) but will only, probably, kill them when they are sprayed directly with it. Also reports of permethrin resistance (aka not much bothered by it) bed bug 'tribes' are on the increase worldwide. So, Permethrin is a tool against bed bugs but it will not work always and everywhere.
Plus - It is a neurotoxin for cats and aquatic life and some people (humans) might be allergic to it. Personally I don't use it and had a couple of bad experiences of Permethrin being used around me (I have a hyper-reactive bronchial system).
If you (general, nobody meant specifically) do intend to use it - please be considerate about the people around you. I shared a small dorm in Ponferrada once with a peregrina that sprayed her belongings several times and I nearly choked because of the fumes ...
Buen Camino sin chinches, SY
 
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I can relate to you having had bad experiences with permethrin; my husband suffered terribly from allergies; one plane trip in particular sent him to hospital after arrival; the culprit being perfume. I think I will go with the flow, say my prayers and follow your advice upon returning home. thanks again
 
SYates said:
Permethrin is considered a bed bug repellent (scaring them away) but will only, probably, kill them when they are sprayed directly with it.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I believe this is not correct . There is little or no evidence that permethrin functions as a repellent (scaring them away). There is evidence that it kills bedbugs on direct contact (unless they are resistant).

Permethrin has been studied and used on clothing as protection against mosquitoes, but its effectiveness is questionable. This article describes a review by Consumer Reports of treated clothes, and also explains a bit about how permethrin works.

I expect that permethrin sprayed in advance on my sheet, and dried, will not likely kill a bedbug before it walks across the sheet to have a last supper on me. Sure it might get bedbug cancer and die in a few days, (thus leading to survival of resistant species?) but I will have already been bitten. Here is a study by Ohio State University that tends to support this conclusion. (I note that the study was specifically conducted to evaluate a commercial fabric treatment, and I suspect that they were hoping the evidence would get better support for their product!)

Since bedbugs do like me, and I do react to them, and have been bitten at least once on every camino, I have given the matter quite a bit of thought! My approach now is to use a large bag to isolate things in the albergue, isolate my sleeping bag in my pack during the day, and spray Deet (as a proven insect repellent) on a bedsheet that I carry. I do the spraying outside. Sometimes I apply Deet to my exposed skin as well. I then try to relax and not scratch too much. Finally I debug according to SYates's good instructions.
 
Is bug spray (mosquito repelkant) still needed mid September to end of October? Or is it just extra weight ?
 
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The materials used to make backpacks don't usually absorb much water. You pretty much have to dunk it in a bathtub and hold it under for a few minutes.

I use waterproof bags intended for kayaking as added protection for my sleeping bag and a set of dry clothes. Documents get kept in a ziploc.

I used to use garbage bags and I don't recall anything getting wet. The dry bags tend to last a lot longer so its more economical ... I wouldn't go buying them unless you know you will have a use after the camino.

I wouldn't put any chemical treatments on the pack, neither nikiwax nor permethin. All that you are likely to do is cause colours to run and fabrics to weaken prematurely. This is particularly true for the foam padding in the straps. When its time to wash the pack the chemicals get added to the eco-system where they do wreak havoc.
 
M. McNabb said:
Is bug spray (mosquito repelkant) still needed mid September to end of October? Or is it just extra weight ?
Click to expand...
I never encountered mosquitoes in October. I used repellent at night in hopes it would repel bedbugs as well. It is readily available in farmacias along the way.
 
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@VALERIE SIBSON
Hola Valerie - first rule of this Camino Forum - "There are no Stupid Questions"- if you do not know and do not ask - then you will NEVER know. As for waterproof v bed bug spray. I go with the waterproof pack cover, although if its REALLY raining then my best advice, find somewhere out of the rain (church, bar, cafe, small shop). It is very unlikely that you will be asked to "move on unless buying". As for the bed bugs - here prevention is definitely far, far better than the cure. Cure - means very thorough washing (in hot water) - YOU; your back pack; sleeping bag (although 30-45 mins in a hot drier will achieve a reasonable result) and ALL YOUR CLOTHES. The one rule about bed bugs is: if you suspect you have them TELL the management of the Albergue/Casa Rural/Hotel - BEFORE you check in. That way they can keep you isolated and arrange for the washing/cleaning BEFORE there is a chance of spreading the bugs throughout the establishment.
I did spray all my gear - packs, sleeping bag; liner before I left Oz for Spain last year. I also (for the most part) stayed away from the municipal/donativo albergues (the ones more likely to get infected and unfortunately remain infected.). Buen Camio
PS - one last rule - do not put you backpack on ANY bed; check the floor around your bed; if you are suspicious - spray the matress with inspect repellent - wait 10 mins, if the little black specks appear tell the management - and consider moving to alternative accommodation. Cheers
 
@C clearly Have a look here: https://sawyer.com/sawyer-u/faqs/insect-repellents/ under "Does Permethrin work against bed bugs" and also this video that shows how the bed bugs try to escape the treated fabric that covers the container.
I guess we both mean the same thing (bed bugs don't like permethrin and if they can't escape it and are not resistant, they die because of it) we just use different words/emphasis ;-)

Buen Camino, SY
 
St Mike ll,

Thanks so much for you response and all the advice contained in it. Pack cover sorted. Spraying before I go planned. Like the 'getting out of the rain' idea very much! And am mindful of the treatment prescribed. Here's hoping it will all be OTT and I won't encounter any BBs and not much rain!!!

Best regards
Val
 
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SYates said:
I guess we both mean the same thing (bed bugs don't like permethrin and if they can't escape it and are not resistant, they die because of it)
Click to expand...
Yes I agree with that!

I realize I get a bit pedantic when it comes to this topic! And since you are considered one of the gurus of bedbug control, I wanted to clarify the differences between insecticide and repellent. I have no doubt that there is some overlap in their effects, so I think it is quite reasonable for people to use an insecticide (permethrin) and expect some repellent effect as well.

The website promoting Sawyer products was carefully worded not to answer the question "Does Permethrin work against bed bugs?" I'm sure that it does, on contact, but they avoided any claims about its effectiveness for travelers.

I had to laugh at their answer to the question, "Does Permethrin on clothing contribute to making super bugs?" Their answer was very carefully worded and evasive: "Permethrin does not increase the biting behavior or aggressiveness of the target insects (arthropods) it is intended to repel or kill."

I am just so glad that bedbugs succomb to heat, without doubt!
 
M. McNabb said:
Did it repel bedbugs???
Click to expand...
I didn't use it every night, but I was not bitten when I used it. However, there were more nights when I wasn't bitten even when I did not use Deet. I haven't done enough experimentation to prove anything! Maybe after a dozen more caminos.
 
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Good morning
While they serve the purpose of keeping your clothes and equipment semi-dry grocery bags make an awesome racket if you require their contents in the wee hours. I highly recommend dry bags that can be found in sport shops. They won't tear, they are waterproof and have a positive seal. Their use generates minimal disruption to fellow pilgrims.
Cheers
Jim
 
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