Temperature and pace - questions

[antelope]

Hi

I'm intending to walk from St Jean to Santiago starting sometime shortly after mid April.

I read widely that it's a good thing to walk at one's own pace. Certainly I'm unfit, and anyway I want to walk and ponder and enjoy where I am rather than rush. But I don't see how this aoproach is possible if I'm obliged to cover a given distance in order to make the next Albergue, or if, as everyone seems to say, you need to hack along in order to get space. SO first question is...how do I reconcile a desire to 'walk in a relaxed manner' [as the book would have it] with a need to cover distance between Albergues and in order to get to them on time?

Secondly, I'm a bit baffled about sleeping bags. I hate these 'mummy' bags as I cannot stand my legs being forced together. So I want a square or 'envelope' shaped bag. However, I'm having trouble finding one...it would help though if I knew what temperature specification to get. Given the range of altitudes on the Camino, and therefore presumably temperatures, how do I cover all requirements? 1 season, 2 season or 3 season? Most square bags are 1 season.

Finally, there is an aspect that brings these two points together...namely that I'm interested in camping out [using a bivouac tent and a mat/bag], if I get caught between albergues especially. Is this realistic? What time does it get dark? [could be pretty tedious sitting alone in the dark from 6pm onwards!] And if it is a goer, what are the implications for sleeping bag choice?

Many thanks for advice.
David

 

[Deleted member 3000]

You can see distances here:
http://www.godesalco.com/plan/frances

It is virtually impossible to get caught between stopping points. The only possibility is that accommodations will be full, which is a rare occurrence. Other topics will show you the incredible number of facilities along the way.

You will sleep indoors unless really plan to camp outdoors, so spring-fall-autumn temperatures indoors will rarely be below 60 degrees, and may be close to 100 degrees in the summer. A nylon or silk sleep sack is usually sufficient unless you are generally cold at night. Cold albergues have blankets if you ever need them. If you think you need an actual sleeping bag, go for something light weight that is rated 40 degrees or above. Lafuma has some goods ones, but they are mostly mummy shaped.

I am good for a 4-5 kph pace when walking (Europeans are more like 6-7 kph), but average about 3.5 kph with stops. Everyone passes me.

Have fun!

 

[antelope]

Thanks. That chart is useful. I hadn't realised that there were so many stops.

I would like to camp out under the stars..!

 

[Sojourner47]

On a similar note, I would like to avoid the morning rush to get going in the dark, and the resulting 1pm or 2pm rush to queue for a bed.
My preferred walking style is start around 7am, walk for 4 or 5 hours, eat/drink/rest for an hour or two, then carry on walking for another 4 hours or so.
This would mean arriving at an alberque around 6 or 7 pm -much too late, I suspect, to get a bed - in April - even avoiding the main stopping places, and aiming for the "in-between" ones???

 

[Deleted member 3000]

My preferred walking style is start around 7am, walk for 4 or 5 hours, eat/drink/rest for an hour or two, then carry on walking for another 4 hours or so.

You can control what you do, but you cannot control what the Camino delivers. Your desires may be at odds with reality. If that becomes the case, and many pilgrims do what you want to do, which do you expect to be able to change -- you or the Camino? It might be prudent to consider the disharmony before you start, and have a plan.

 

[Finisterre]

vango do a squarish lightweight down sleeping bag.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VANGO-VENOM-2 ... 45e9dfbd95

the mrs has one, it was more than adequate (unzipped much of the time) in May a couple of years ago

 

[antelope]

I don't think I'm going to plan anything...just take it as it comes.

Thanks for that Finsterre..it led to a pretty extensive google session. Seems there are two versions of that bag available..one may be an old version. Anyway, I've a much better idea of whats available. And if I take a bag line i should be able to boost very lightweight bags like this if I choose to sleep outside.

 

[micbook]

I walked last year from mid June to mid July and was surprised at the number of albergues and stops along the way. There was always room, and April is supposedly less crowded than June, so you're not likely to run into problems.

I walked by myself and also wanted to take my time to enjoy and mostly go at my own pace. You certainly get to learn a lot about your pace and rhythm...

Buen Camino!
Michal
--
http://michalrinkevich.wordpress.com/tag/camino-de-santiago/

 

[dougfitz]

David,
I travelled with a +5 deg Celcius rectangular sleeping bag, the Paddy Pallin Wollemi 300. It might only be available here in Australia but I am sure you will find something similar. It weighs about 880 gm, and I used a Kathmandu liner, which brought the weight up to just a bit over 1kg.

It was warm enough to cope with the unheated gym at Zubiri in early Apr, and the barely heated downstairs hall at the church in Granon later in the month. Elsewhere, I would open it out and use it like a quilt. A similar mummy bag would have been lighter, but I don't sleep well in them either.

I'm not sure how well I would have coped using it in a tent - you might need something rated around zero deg Celcius for that, even later in Apr.

In 2010 I walked the Camino Frances when there was a group of young people camping when they could. I left SJPP at the end of Mar, just a bit earlier than you are planning to walk. This seemed to be a money saving measure, as most of the time they were camping in the grounds of an albergue or close by, and often ate with us when we prepared meals for ourselves.

I never heard of them camping 'in the wild' between villages, although that doesn't mean they didn't at some stage.

Regards,

 

[antelope]

Thanks Dougf, that bag's definitely aussie only. But I've found a couple of similar ones here - the vango venom 200 [half way down zip only, and the Deuter trek lite sq [expensive], the research continues.

What's the fuss about silk liners? Why not cotton or fleece?

 

[jemitch65]

Hello David:

I like you am walking the Camino for the first time this year. I will be doing it late May through June. Although, I cannot add much in the way of Camino experience to give you advice, I am an avid hiker. Most recently, I carried a 36 lb. backpack 125 miles through the 100 Mile Wilderness in Maine last August. With regard to hiking speed, hike only so fast as your body feels comfortable. Avoid other pilgrims' paces if they are not suitable to what your body will allow. Injuries happen when this occurs. It is your body talking to you which brings me to my next topic. With just 5 or 10 minutes of "light stretching" you can avoid many problems. Warming the body up prior to a 15 mile walk will help you avoid problems you probably would not have anticipated. With regard to the sleeping bag, keep two things in mind. Buy a down and 3 season bag. I like your idea about bring a tent, but the added weight may also make your walking experience more difficult. Buen Camino. John

 

[dougfitz]

What's the fuss about silk liners? Why not cotton or fleece?

Don't really know. I used one I have had for years, it wasn't bought specifically for the Camino.

One of the German's walking at the same time as me just carried a fleece sleeping bag, and was always looking for extra blankets! The ones that I have seen here in Australia weigh the same or a little more than my down bag, and are only rated to +10 C compared to the +5 deg C for my sleeping bag. That said, they are a fraction of the price and are probably much easier to care for.

Regards,

 

[Arn]

Antelope wrote:

What's the fuss about silk liners? Why not cotton or fleece?

Two main things: Cotton retains many things...among them are sweat and odor.

Both cotton and fleece absorb water...and that adds weight.

Under many circumstances: Your body heat cannot dry cotton. Therefore, NO COTTON ANYTHING! Rather consider something made of either 100% polypro, or if you need it...something 50/50 cotton and polypro. The less cotton...the better.

A silk liner weight much less than both cotton or fleece and washes and dries quickly.

Buen Camino

Arn

 

[antelope]

Hi Jemitch. I'm surprised that you favour a 3 season. I'd have thought northern SPain would be quite warm at that time of year, although there are changes in altitude - presumably it can get chilly at the top of the hills. Anyway, this is my approach at this point, remembering that it's very much open to debate!:

A 2 season sleeping bag, probably either the Vango Venom 200 [ http://www.e-outdoor.co.uk/3477/product ... g_bag.aspx although this only zips down half way] or the Deuter Trek Lite 250 SQ [ http://www.trek-king.co.uk/deutertrek-l ... two-season - 850gr]

A silk liner [ http://www.terrevistatrails.com/index.p ... qqp21qul56 - 163 gr]

A base layer..maybe something from this range, merino or synthetic: [ http://www.escape2.co.uk/LSWS2/index.php?c=83 400gr]

A bivouac [ http://www.webtogs.co.uk/Marmot_Home_Al ... 02021.html - 0.76 kg ]

A mat, maybe this but I'll try and find something lighter: [ http://www.escape2.co.uk/LSWS2/index.ph ... +0842&c=55 - 910gr ]

This lot should provide for anything from a hot Albergue to sleeping out cold.

A backpack. I'll be using one from the Osprey range, about 1.4kg. [ http://www.escape2.co.uk/LSWS2/index.php?c=127 ]

This makes about 4.4kg in total, leaving about 3.6kg for clothes and stuff, given that I'm aiming for 8kg in total. Bearing in mind that at any one time, I'll be wearing about a third of the clothes.

Oh, and I want a pillow. Yes ok, snigger if you must. So another 320 gr approx. Can I get everything else into 3.3kg??

 

[antelope]

Am, there's always this as an alternative to silk: http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/index.cf ... 79/level/3

Wicking.

 

[jemitch65]

Hello David:

I choose a 3 season bag because it offers more versatility than a 2 season bag. You mentioned that you are walking in mid-April and want to bring a tent for camping outside? My recommendation is that a 3 season sleeping bag will be a better accomodation for you. If it gets too warm, open up the zipper and vice-versa. I have looked at your camping gear, specifically your back packs. You are choosing Osprey? I used to have the Osprey Aether 70 backpack but did "not" like the cheap chest strap for it. The clasp on it is a plastic piece that is not part of the strap and can come off. There is nothing more uncomfortable than to have the weight hanging off your shoulders because you lost the plastic part to your chest strap somewhere. Not all Ospreys have this deficiency so check it out in the store. I now use a Gregory Baltoro, in my mind a superior pack to my Osprey Aether. If you think the 2 season bag is more than you require for warmth, I would not waste the money on a liner for it. Liners are used to increase warmth. Regards, John

 

[sulu]

Weather in Spain in April! Warm days mean clear skies which mean frosts at night. Weather is unpredictable but where I am in Galicia the locals expect frosts at night until mid May!
I have a square sleeping bag because it was cheap and I don't like 'mummy bags' either, it was good because, mostly, it was warm enough in March and April, though I sometimes I needed a blanket as well, sometimes I stuffed a jumper down the bag to keep my legs warm!
I am sure that you will have no problems finding room in the albergues and it is unusual to find people getting up really early in April as it is still dark early in the mornings. Early April it won't be light until 7.30 to 8ish.
If you really want to sleep out you will need penty of warmth! Albergues are really not that bad, just take ear plugs, after a few days you get so tired you can sleep through anything as long as you have ear plugs.

 

[antelope]

Chaps..thanks for this. My approach on gear thus far is to try and have a range of lightweight pieces that between them offer a range of permutations that cover all eventualities. I actively want to be able to sleep out under the stars...it's not just about smelly albergues - I'm sure they offer their own experience and that many are very pleasant. But if the mood, or the circumstances, suggest that sleeping out would be good, I'd like to have that option available too. So by having the range of stuff listed above, I could sleep in just a liner [hot albergue] or bag [cool albergue] or bag and liner [cold alberegue / warm outside] or base layer / bag / liner [cold outside], etc, etc,...and a bivi for all outside. That's the theory anyway.

I may be very wrong in this approach. And I'm not sure about the 3.3kg for everything else! But I reckon it may be possible...just need to define what else I need.

I do know that I don't want to plan this trip to much, beyond trying to allow for flexibility. I want the experience to evolve of it's own accord, according to the Camino, and to be able to respond in any way.

I'll probably end up discarding my bivi and mat and staying in albergues only! I don't know.

 

[antelope]

Sulu, can I ask what rating your square bag was?

 

[jemitch65]

One last bit of advice on gear if you are looking for ultra-light. I know you said you do not like mummy bags, but Marmot makes a great 850 fill down bag called the Helium that weighs only 2 lbs. 2 oz. I use this bag and it packs light and small. I purchased the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core pad which provides 2 1/2 inches of cushion to sleep on and weighs only 1 lb. I also chose the Big Agnes Copper Spur 1 ultra light tent which is more practical because if it rains you can pull your pack, boots and any other gear under your vestibule. With a Bivvy that you are thinking about, you cannot do this and are subject to the elements. The Copper Spur 1 tent weighs in at only 3 lbs. One of the best and lightest on the market. One last thought also, because I did not see this in your calculations for packweight, but presumably, you will be walking/hiking with water. If you choose a 2 liter camelback, Osprey makes a good one. Remember that each liter of water weighs 2 lbs. so that full this will weigh a total of 4 lbs. Check this site out for lists of things that you will want to bring also. You will be surprised at how much a camera, blister kit etc. adds to pack weight, but take only what is necessary. Remember, anything you need extra, you can buy in a village along the way.

 

[sulu]

Sulu, can I ask what rating your square bag was?

Hi Antelope,
You can ask, I don't think I can answer. It is a 'Eurohike Voyager', the cheapest bag I could find in Millets. I bought it without any thought to weight or warmth, I was very naive! In fact weight wise it isn't bad but it is bulky, of course that reduces what else I can squeeze into my backpack There is a label on it saying 'any Temperature ratings are a guide only' but I can't see any ratings given.
I'm very attached to it now, after 3 caminos I'm not planning to change it.
Buen 'planning', buen Camino
Sue

 

[antelope]

Thanks for that Jemitch. Some useful stuff in there, although I'm afraid I'm years past thinking in terms of pounds and ounces and keep having to use an online converter!

The only problem with that tent is that it's almost twice as heavy as the bivvy, although I can see what you're saying re keeping stuff dry. I'm going to have to ponder that one. I like the look of that mat though. Lighter than the Therma rest ones.

I like the look of those Gregory packs too. A little heavier than the Ospreys, but not by too much. If I can find a stockist near me, I'll go and take a look [as I think it's important to try a pack on]...there's an Osprey supplier near me, hence my interest as they're lighter than any other pack I can find locally.

 

[jemitch65]

Hi David:

Whatever you decide upon, I'm sure your walk on the Camino will be better for all the research you are doing. What is the old saying? "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Sorry for using American measures for weight again. That did occur to me when I was writing posts for you, but I also had a hard time converting pounds to kilograms. In short...go light! Best wishes to you on your camino walk in April. I will be starting my own about the time you finish. John

 

[walkingtotheend]

On walking the Camino in may 2009 we came across some graffiti that read "good speed is your speed"
I think every walker would agree

 

[antelope]

Thanks to all for very helpful comments. Things are starting to come together. I recognise that I'm loading my weight somewhat by wanting to sleep outside at least occasionally, but I think this is crucial [mind you all the bivouacs seem at assume a mummy bag, and I want a square one!]. And also a crucial part of being able to walk carefree at one's own pace....although I need to clarify what the situation is re just bunking down anywhere.

One issue that's stumping me is the age old and much discussed one about footware. I have a pair of extremely light and flexible Clarks gore-tex walking boots that are comfortable with just one pair of ordinary thin socks...but I have a problem: I have a trapped nerve somewhere that manifests as bad pain in my right foot if there's any [and I mean any] lateral squeeze on the foot. The foot needs to be able to spread out completely. So, when I put warmer socks, or 1000 mile socks, or socks plus liners on my foot, and put the boots on, I get the problem, as it only takes that tiny bit of takeup in the width of the shoe to generate the requisite lateral squeeze.

I could walk for miles in my old deck shoes, or indeed in an old pair of suede Timberland shoes that I love, but neither of these are going to be suitable - the Timberlands are to old now. And anyway neither are waterproof.

So, can anyone recommend a brand or make of boot that's extremely wide? And also, I see there's a debate about whether to use walking shoes [which are very lightweight] or boots. Any comments on this?

 

[Arn]

I've done long distance hikes and many, many less than 100 mile walks. I've worn heavy leather Merrell boots and their lighter weight Gortex low tops.

My most recent Camino Portuguese, I wore these:

http://www.shopnewbalance.com/men/shoes ... ry/MW967BR

They were comfortable, come in WIDE (2E for me), the motion bar stabilized my stride and were good for up and down hills

Take a look...I'm sure you will check all the options.

Arn

 

[Deleted member 3000]

New Balance has width sizing up to 4E. I have used their low-cut boots several times in a narrow width, and they have been excellent. I don't think you should worry too much about "waterproof" boots. They can be hot when it is not raining, which may be the entire pilgrimage. Even waterproof boots can fill with water either from rain or stepping in a puddle. Treat your footwear with some waterproofing before you leave, and use gaiters if you really are concerned. Long pants or rain pants can help, and a poncho acts as an umbrella for light rain. Expect your feet to get wet. Plan foot care accordingly by starting with water repellent like petrolatum, silicone, or talc. Dry your feet along the way, and change socks. Renew the Vaseline. At night, remove the insoles, stuff with newspaper, and let them dry. Avoid severe heat, such as the hearth in front of a fire or a radiator, which may ruin the boots.

 

[antelope]

Thanks for this. I've located a local supplier of New Balance shoes and will go and take a look this week. Waterproof angle noted...thanks.

 

[antelope]

Found this chart that you can print out and which allows you to measure your own foot size and, crucially, foot width.

http://www.widefitshoes.co.uk/measure/W ... t_mens.pdf

 

[antelope]

Actually, treat with caution. Not sure it works now I've tried it..

 

[Chignecto]

I walked from SJPP to Santiago starting last May 18th. I took forty two days to do the pilgrimage so I walked varying distances daily depending on how I felt. These distances ranged from a short day of 10km to a long day of 30km. I used the John Brierely guide book and made a point of stopping at mid stage points because the alberques seemed to be less crowded and I like stopping in the smaller villages. For me this was where the Camino was strongest. I usually started at about 6:45am just as the sun was coming up. The first two hours each morning were my favourite time. I usually purchased food the day before for my first breakfast at about 8:30am. It was usually some combination of fruit, bread, cheese, and yogurt. I would then stop for my second breakfast at around 10:30am when the bars had opened and I could get my cafe con leche. I had a truly amazing experience and I learned to make the pilgrimage "my pilgrimage". Mid May was a great time to do the Camino. The temperatures were in the high teens to low twenties celcius until mid June and in the forty two days of walking I encountered only two days of rain. On several days it rained after I had already reached the alberque I was staying in.

 

[antelope]

Thanks for that Chignecto. That sounds pretty much how I intend to walk it. I don't have a time limit.

I am starting to think it would make more sense to leave early/mid May rather than mid/late April, to try and avoid the range of temperatures that I'm having trouble equipping myself for.