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There is a belief that the name Somport is derived from Summus Pyreneus but it's not certain.
From a catamaran on the Ribeira Sacra. Zoom in to see the incredible patches of vines.
But HA! We have roughly the same photo, about a month apart.The vines are much clearer in your photo... and gobsmacked is just the word!
Yes, you are right.No, Somport is from Summus Portus -- Portus is Latin meaning "mountain pass". It really just means "the High Pass", perhaps in relationship to the easier, lower Valcarlos one.
The same word Portus is found in the Perthus (that's literally Portus on its own, and by FAR the easiest Roman road crossing into Iberia was there), Puigcerdà, Saint Jean Pied de Port (Saint John at the foot of the Pass), and a couple dozen or so other places on or near the top of the Pyrenees.
the summus pyreneus mentioned in antiquity
And this demand for some sort of spurious 'antiquity' and 'authenticity' also surfaces in wider debates about contemporary pilgrimage. Raise the subject of luggage transport or mobile phones or whatever and someone is very likely to chip in with the observation that "they didn't do that it in the middle ages" as if modern pilgrims are somehow obliged to conform in all respects to the practices of some mythical paradigm of a long past century. Unfortunately no one seems able to specify precisely which medieval pilgrim I am honour-bound to impersonate: age? date? nationality? social status? lay or clerical? As I have argued above I believe that the Camino revival of the late 20th and early 21st centuries is essentially a modern invention or reinvention rather than an evolutionary continuation of medieval practice. Provided that is recognised there should be no need to justify the creation of new routes or practices by doubtful statements about their ancient provenance.The first bishop to travel to Compostela, the first king that rode on his horse to Compostela, the battles about whether the Valcarlos road is older than the Napoleon route and which Pyrenees pass is the oldest - as if everyone is a scholar or a layperson with a great interest in medieval or Roman history who needs to put their feet exactly where some person that's been dead for a thousand feet put theirs ... hello?
You are right. I got a little confused there yesterday. It was late (lame excuse). ☺That just means "the top of the Pyrenees"
What in the world is wrong with that?as if everyone is a scholar or a layperson with a great interest in medieval or Roman history who needs to put their feet exactly where some person that's been dead for a thousand years put theirs ... hello?
Erm ... I don't know you personally but based on what I read from you as "online person" I think you have an interest that goes beyond "Napoleon [sic] was there and so was I".So, yes. Hello.
Now that @Tincatinker is off on his travels, and all the rest of ye who have been good enough to pay attention to his question have given time and offered serious or less so responses, I found the following link, and offer it here, whatever it may or may not add to the topic. I will read it properly later, as I have some work to prepare for tomorrow.Members will be aware that I am neither a contrarian nor a provocateur but that I do like, now and again, to ask questions a little beyond which is the best bar to discuss the best sleeping bag in.
So, as I viewed a thread started by a new member who is flying into Madrid and probably training it to Pamplona asking how to get from there to a small provincial French town in the western foothills of the Pyrenees, I wondered, again, why do people think that the Camino starts in St Jean pied de Porte?
Our new member could start walking to the shrine of Santiago from Pamplona, as many do. They could, if they were determined to travel away from Santiago before walking to Santiago, have made their way to historic Roncesvalles. They could, if they wanted to, head for Somport or Irun or even Barcelona but everyone wants to get to StJpdP and then leave it the following morning via a potentially crippling walk up and over a thumping great hill for no other reason that I can discern than "that its there" (Mallory, I forgive you) or because that is where their guide book starts.
With all due respects to @Monasp and the good folk of the Bureau des pèlerins de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Why?
EDIT: this will take me some time, it is long! However, I will enjoy it in snatches. There is interesting information for people like me - are there any?! - who know little that is fact about the origins of ‘The Camino’.
Haha. Yes, you'd be right there." I think you have an interest that goes beyond "Napoleon [sic] was there and so was I"
And maybe Brierley?Three words.
Coelho
MacLaine
Hollywood
Well, make that four.
Ignorance.
Many of us start out thinking that what we heard or read was true: that the camino means the Frances, and that the 'complete,' or 'whole' camino Frances starts in SJPP. Period.
Never mind the rich history of countless folk starting from their front steps, wherever those happened to be. The many other routes and possible starting points don't much factor in to our impoverished modern reckoning because we're so brainwashed to think otherwise.
Edit - So @davebugg, you just posted at the same time and proved my cynical reasoning wrong.
I'm actually anything but a history buff ☺. I always had a bit of a soft spot for things Roman, not all of it, far from it, and for the, to me very appealing, visual beauty of the masterpieces of Gothic architecture and it was only somewhere on the long way to Santiago that I caught the bug of wanting to know more about what these people of the 11th+ century thought. It continues to fascinate me to this day and I am eager to learn more when the occasion arises.anything to do with history
@Bradypus Thanks! This brings me back to a question I have raised before. And again I hope Tom @t2andreo may help. My question is this. Is the route from Lugo through Friol to Sobrado dos Monxes, linking the Primitivo to the Norte, "official"? And is it "recognised by the SAMI"?
I walked this route in May 2016. In the Tourist Office in Lugo, where I went to look for advice, I was told rudely - quite rudely actually - and definitively, the it was "not permitted" to do this, ie to deviate from one route on to another. I paid no heed to this gentleman and took myself off on the "Camino Verde" for the next two days, possibly my two favourite Camino days ever. And I did obtain a Compostela on that occasion.
But my question remains, if there is a requirement that one walks on a route that is recognised by the SAMI is there a list of such routes?
I find it extraordinary that one has to walk on a particular path. I am horrified by the notion that the pilgrim office might demand evidence of the actual path I have followed, while I can accept that there is a rule about 100km and about two sellos.
@JabbaPapa, I went back and corrected my earlier message and it now reads as follows: The lines on this map are often only an approximation. You may have noted that both the Somport pass and the Roncesvalles pass are called Summus Pyreneus on this interactive map. There is no unanimity about where exactly the Summus Pyreneus of the ancient Roman road was that connected Astorga and Bordeaux and went through Pamplona and Roncesvalles (Iter XXXIV in the Antonine Itinerary).You are right. I got a little confused there yesterday. It was late (lame excuse). ☺
Not sure about this Saint Jean place, but I had always assumed Jesus started in Sarria.
The net knows everything and, yes, summus pyreneus is not a place name. In the case of the Roman road number 34 that connected Pamplona with Dax it is not clear where s.p. is because the distances given in the original document generate dispute among experts.But one would need to see the actual Latin reference(s) to see how "summus pyreneus" was used in context. It's not even necessarily a place name ...
Loving your map, and contributions on star gazing. It's worth pointing out that throughout the ages people have navigated by the stars, follow the Southern Cross and your will end up on my shakey isle where I gaze at the Milky Way and a very large yellow squashed moon tonight, fascinating to think that right now on the other side of the globe some poor sods are marching their way to Santiago.Has anyone here ever walked any of these? This is a map from the Sobrarbe Tourist board, showing lesser known Pyrenees passes walked by pilgrims to Santiago and based on historical records. This is south of Lourdes and east of Somport. Note the altitude of the three passes shown on the map: 2400 m.
View attachment 64786
General spoiler alert: the ancient Roman road 34 is not exactly where you may think it was and you are not walking on it.
That was a wonderful book. That and Montaillou have been windows for me into a distant and ultimately unknowable reality. I share your fascination, @Kathar1na.Barbara Tuchman's A distant mirror,
I think you're right. We think we are, but no doubt that's mostly projection. Our own worldview ha its own distortions, which offer a very different set of rationales for walking than theirs. Wanting to be fit and youthful as long as possible, and wanting to gather as many experiences as we can in the service of trying to establish lasting happiness here and now are two that spring to mind...Do we walk in the footstep of these people? I think less and less that this is the case.
No, but that's a fascinating map.Has anyone here ever walked any of these?
It fascinates me how when roman roads are not well buried under the nearest 6-lane major artery (which makes total sense)...they can be completely forgotten not far away going through someone's field.it's still usually about 20 to 50 metres away from the original Roman route in most places
Certainly many people see SJPP that way and like to distinguish the CF after it from the three routes that converge in that area: from Paris, from Vezelay, and from Le Puy. But actually, these three routes don't converge in SJPP. If you consider the Frances proper starting at the convergence of those three routes, then to do "the whole Camino Frances" you'll want to take a taxi or a bus about 20 km further away from Santiago to Ostabat and start there. There is a gite you can stay at before setting off in the morning. Most people don't bother, though, and start at SJPP which is more convenient to get to and has more accommodations, restaurants and shops, not to mention being where their guidebooks start and where their friends started or the people in the movies they watched or the books they read.I thought that it was the starting point of the Camino Frances as the roads leading back from StJPdeP are part of other routes such as the Podiensis, Francigena, Vezelay, etc and it encompasses the whole of the Spanish path if you start from there. If you start from Ronscevalle or Pamplona, you have missed a bit of Spain.
Well, they quote from a book that quotes from another book which quotes from another book ...
More than once, I'd say. We're meandering around looking for yellow arrows and of course those old books don't ever mention them.Have we come full circle
All roads lead to Santiago, they didn't need arrows. We are far less capable than our ancestors.
More than once, I'd say. We're meandering around looking for yellow arrows and of course those old books don't ever mention them.
Hmmmm. I wonder why?
I was making a joke, and invoking a metaphor.All roads lead to Santiago, they didn't need arrows. We are far less capable than our ancestors.
I was making a joke, and invoking a metaphor.
Looking for identical routes is like looking for mention of yellow arrows in the Codex.
There were guides! Guides as in guide person, not guide book. I vaguely remember from a Luther biography that he and the other monk who travelled with him to Rome hired a guide for crossing the Alps.We're meandering around looking for yellow arrows and of course those old books don't ever mention them.
Oh, interesting.The (modern) author of a study where I found this goes on to say that there is no doubt that there were guides but we know nothing about them.
Aah, but did those guides arrange for lodgings and baggage transport? Maybe the ones who use these services are the most authentic to the medieval experience of all of us. ;-)There were guides! Guides as in guide person, not guide book. I vaguely remember from a Luther biography that he and the other monk who travelled with him to Rome hired a guide for crossing the Alps.
I was really surprised when I read a quote from someone who wrote a History of Roncesvalles and was canónigo and hospitalero there (he died in 1679) that "there are others who serve as guides for the groups of pilgrims who go to Santiago, and those whom they guide pay them a salary ... and one of these guides told me that he had been 28 times to Santiago and that the people who he had guided were 'grandes católicos' and made their pilgrimage with great devotion." The (modern) author of a study where I found this goes on to say that there is no doubt that there were guides but we know nothing about them.
Easy. If you’re French, you start from France , ie usually Saint Jean pied de port . If you’re Spanish, you start from...Spain!Members will be aware that I am neither a contrarian nor a provocateur but that I do like, now and again, to ask questions a little beyond which is the best bar to discuss the best sleeping bag in.
So, as I viewed a thread started by a new member who is flying into Madrid and probably training it to Pamplona asking how to get from there to a small provincial French town in the western foothills of the Pyrenees, I wondered, again, why do people think that the Camino starts in St Jean pied de Porte?
Our new member could start walking to the shrine of Santiago from Pamplona, as many do. They could, if they were determined to travel away from Santiago before walking to Santiago, have made their way to historic Roncesvalles. They could, if they wanted to, head for Somport or Irun or even Barcelona but everyone wants to get to StJpdP and then leave it the following morning via a potentially crippling walk up and over a thumping great hill for no other reason that I can discern than "that its there" (Mallory, I forgive you) or because that is where their guide book starts.
With all due respects to @Monasp and the good folk of the Bureau des pèlerins de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Why?
The best place to start is from your home. NOT easy for someNo. It doesn't start in SJPdP. Period.
A start in SJPdP is a recent 'invention' as explained above.
But hey, it's a nice place to start......
And are very good swimmers...The best place to start is from your home. NOT easy for someWell, most of us really... unless we have unlimited time....
If you are in a rowboat that you propel yourself, is the minimum distance 200 km? What about a sailboat without a motor?And are very good swimmers...
And are very good swimmers...
Easy. If you’re French, you start from France , ie usually Saint Jean pied de port . If you’re Spanish, you start from...Spain!
If you are in a rowboat that you propel yourself, is the minimum distance 200 km?
What about a sailboat without a motor?
For a sailboat, the requirement is about 200 km: about 185 km by boat and the last few km on foot. Don’t you guys read what‘s written in your credencialesIf you are in a rowboat that you propel yourself, is the minimum distance 200 km? What about a sailboat without a motor?
There is an article on the National Geographic BOOK "The age of Chivalry " 1969 pgs 172-198 "Pilgrimage to Compostella" (lib congress catalog card #79-79765) guess you are referring to this...Do you know which National Geographic issue this was? I have all the issues between 1957 and 1991 and would like to look it up!
There is of course the question of where does the camino on foot generally start ... what's the general idea that people have, not an individual choice or out of any historical necessity. I have no idea, no "feeling", how many people, throughout all these centuries, walked on foot and how many did part or all by other means. My guess is, however, that if we sum up all the Saint James pilgrims of all times, those on foot only - and without assisted luggage transport to boot - are in the minority.IMHO The camino starts wherever and whenever you leave home to start a camino. So I suppose in my case on my front doorstep.
Love this. That book's how I learned of the camino - it was a Christmas present. There was a photo of someone embracing the statue in the cathedral and it caught my attention. Who'd have known?There is an article on the National Geographic BOOK "The age of Chivalry " 1969 pgs 172-198 "Pilgrimage to Compostella" (lib congress catalog card #79-79765) guess you are referring to this...
This is the best answer yet.The Camino begins in your heart
Yes, it begins in your heart.The Camino begins in your heart
BTW (only picking up on this now), there is also the Puerto de Belate on the Baztanes, which rings in at only 919 mIbañeta pass: 1060 m
Lepoeder pass ("Napoleon pass" ☺): 1430 m
Somport pass: 1630 m
Pau pass: 1940 m
I did my first cammino in 2010 and started in SJPDP getting there from my home town by train because of time I "Only" had a month to reach Santiago on the 25 July Holy year ...Yes, I am a Catholic... and for me a Pilgrimage is spiritual by definition.Three words.
Coelho
MacLaine
Hollywood
Well, make that four.
Ignorance.
Many of us start out thinking that what we heard or read was true: that the camino means the Frances, and that the 'complete,' or 'whole' camino Frances starts in SJPP. Period.
Never mind the rich history of countless folk starting from their front steps, wherever those happened to be. The many other routes and possible starting points don't much factor in to our impoverished modern reckoning because we're so brainwashed to think otherwise.
Edit - So @davebugg, you just posted at the same time and proved my cynical reasoning wrong.
BTW (only picking up on this now), there is also the Puerto de Belate on the Baztanes, which rings in at only 919 m
Personally, I was undecided where to start, possibly Irún or SJPP or Roncesvalles. I picked up my credential in Irún but went to SJPP to sleep on it. The next day in SJPP I got the sign I was waiting for, and so the following morning I set off from SJPP and never doubted it. The small town just seemed so full of the Camino "magic" that it seemed the right starting point for me. My first shedding of tears started in SJPP and was the beginning of an absolute open-heart journey I'll never forget. I believe the climb over the Pyrenees had something to do with the process. The sudden challenge of it, the majestic views, the brave souls taking it on despite their advancing age or health issues, the animals that roamed those hills that had seen it all before; perhaps it was these kind of things that did it for me. Anyway, that was my first one and I'm glad I started there. But I think the place where it all starts is in your heart and soul, when you commit to doing it, and after that begins the journey that perhaps for many here will never stop.Members will be aware that I am neither a contrarian nor a provocateur but that I do like, now and again, to ask questions a little beyond which is the best bar to discuss the best sleeping bag in.
So, as I viewed a thread started by a new member who is flying into Madrid and probably training it to Pamplona asking how to get from there to a small provincial French town in the western foothills of the Pyrenees, I wondered, again, why do people think that the Camino starts in St Jean pied de Porte?
Our new member could start walking to the shrine of Santiago from Pamplona, as many do. They could, if they were determined to travel away from Santiago before walking to Santiago, have made their way to historic Roncesvalles. They could, if they wanted to, head for Somport or Irun or even Barcelona but everyone wants to get to StJpdP and then leave it the following morning via a potentially crippling walk up and over a thumping great hill for no other reason that I can discern than "that its there" (Mallory, I forgive you) or because that is where their guide book starts.
With all due respects to @Monasp and the good folk of the Bureau des pèlerins de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Why?
The wonderful Peter Robins illustrated this 13th century map on a map we find easier to read (click on link or see below). Note that this London to Rome pilgrim path crosses the Alps on the Mount Cenis pass and not on the San Bernadino pass.The British Library digitised the 13th century map of the itinerary London to Jerusalem (via Rome). View attachment 65026
The Mont Cenis pass is one of the possible candidates for the route which Hannibal is supposed to have taken across the Alps with his army and his elephants during the Second Punic War. A very long history there! And the site of a bizarre British expedition in 1959The wonderful Peter Robins illustrated this 13th century map on a map we find easier to read (click on link or see below). Note that this London to Rome pilgrim path crosses the Alps on the Mount Cenis pass and not on the San Bernadino pass.
Love it! Anyone who clicks on the link and reads the article: don't forget to click on the last link in the footnotes. You'll see one of the canvas and leather lace boots made for the elephant who crossed the Alps in 1959.
Thanks for those figures @Kathar1na . I'm intrigued - where did you find them? My own first Camino was slightly later in 1990 but the main points of difference from today that you mention were still pretty obvious then. One thing that does strike me is that in the three years between 1987 and 1990 the number of Compostelas issued rose from around 3,000 to just under 5,000. A significant increase at the time but a number which can now be equalled in just two days in peak periods.How things have changed in only 30 years!
It popped up in Google while I was searching for something else. It's in Bulletin Ultreïa number 2, issued by the Swiss Amis de Saint Jacques association, p. 26-27. It was originally published in the Pelgrim, issued by the Flemish association who by that time were already on their 13th issue.I'm intrigued - where did you find them?
Difficult to say what effect the papal visits had long-term but the additional numbers receiving Compostelas in those particular years were trivial by today's standards. Less than the number receiving a Compostela on a single busy summer day this year. This table of annual numbers since 1970 comes from the Spanish language version of Wikipedia.Does this guy have anything to do with the surge in numbers around those dates???
I came across some intriguing statistics about the contemporary Camino. They are from 1987. The data were collected in Roncesvalles and in Santiago.
In 1987, about 1500 pilgrims were recorded in Roncesvalles as staying or getting a pilgrim passport, and about 3000 collected a Compostela in Santiago; only about half of those had arrived on foot. Did they give Compostelas to pilgrims who arrived by car in those days?
Members will be aware that I am neither a contrarian nor a provocateur but that I do like, now and again, to ask questions a little beyond which is the best bar to discuss the best sleeping bag in.
So, as I viewed a thread started by a new member who is flying into Madrid and probably training it to Pamplona asking how to get from there to a small provincial French town in the western foothills of the Pyrenees, I wondered, again, why do people think that the Camino starts in St Jean pied de Porte?
Our new member could start walking to the shrine of Santiago from Pamplona, as many do. They could, if they were determined to travel away from Santiago before walking to Santiago, have made their way to historic Roncesvalles. They could, if they wanted to, head for Somport or Irun or even Barcelona but everyone wants to get to StJpdP and then leave it the following morning via a potentially crippling walk up and over a thumping great hill for no other reason that I can discern than "that its there" (Mallory, I forgive you) or because that is where their guide book starts.
With all due respects to @Monasp and the good folk of the Bureau des pèlerins de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Why?
I think this is key. While I personally recommend to friends that they should start a few days back so that they are warmed up before crossing the Pyrenees, Saint Jean is a de facto starting point that isn't really equaled by any other place.Whatever the reason people initially started in Saint Jean, I believe people, now, see it as a place to experience what the Sarria people were experiencing. Starting in Saint Jean gives one a more structured environment to be excited in than Roncesvalles if that is what you are looking for. The people arriving by train, as well as bars, shops and an more urban environment to gird oneself for the journey ahead.
I'm not sure what I said to deserve the praise, but thank you, Alwyn.@VNwalking , when @Tincatinker reviews this discussion I am sure your grade will be one of the highest.
Do you mean the statue of San Roque or of Godesalco? San Roque is the most popular of the so called "plague saints". He was invoked against the plague. He is said to have cared for those who were affected by the disease while he was on pilgrimage to Rome and to have contracted the disease himself and to have survived it, through a miracle, what else.Thank you @AlwynWellington for mentioning Bishop Godesalco. I had to go read up on him and discovered I've been confusing him with San Roque for years. San Roque being a Montpellier lad who walked to Rome, did some miraculous stuff and made the mistake of going home where greedy uncle seized him and locked him up. His statue is everywhere on the Le Puy.
San Roque didn't come to Northern Spain or to Santiago but the plague did. There was a chapel or eremita near the pass, dedicated to San Roque, and the pass is named after it. The statue is a Monumento al Peregrino. I sometimes wonder just how many modern statues dedicated to us pilgrim(s) and our pilgrimages have been erected in recent years ...And of course the big guy at the Alto de San Roch, after O'Cebreiro, now confuses me. Did he also go to Compostela?
As you probably know, there are sketchy lists in the 12th Century Codex Callixtinus of important relics in specific churches which medieaval pilgrims were encouraged to visit along four named French routes to Santiago of which the Paris/Tours and Le Puy routes are two.Nowadays, and seen from "our" vantage point (non-English speaking Continental Europe ☺), SJPP is not only a starting point, it is also an end point: the natural end point of the road from Tours/Paris which is a major traditional road from France to Spain and the natural end point of the modern and very popular long-distance path from Le Puy that has been stylised or fashioned into a "camino de Santiago".
We've been through this before in an older thread. All that is known about this trip from Le Puy to Compostela is that it was in winter, the good bishop was in a hurry, he travelled with a large retinue, and he stopped at the abbey of Albelda in the vicinity of Logroño on the way back. Nothing else is known. He might have travelled on an old Roman road from Trier to Spain and across the Aubrac or elsewhere down the Rhone valley, given that it was winter. In any case, the bishop and his party did not travel on foot but we don't have the slightest clue where they actually travelled.There is earlier documentary evidence in Santiago of Godescalc, a tenth century bishop of Le Puy, making the pilgrimage including many of the places on today's Le Puy route and Camino Frances. So it could be argued that the Le Puy route rather than a modern hikers' path was actually 'stylised' as a camino to Santiago a lot earlier in history.
The path from Le Puy to SJPP may be modern but so is the Camino Frances in Spain. We know it connects villages that pilgrims passed through in the middle ages but we don't know it covers the same ground between those towns and villages that medieval pilgrims would have walked or ridden upon, and many believe that it doesn't, those medieval paths now lying under the surfaces of modern highways. Similarly, we know that medieval pilgrims walked from Le Puy through Conques and Moissac to Orisson and on through the pass to Roncesvalles and then on to SdC, as the Codex Calixtinus tells us so. The modern path connecting the towns is probably as good an approximation as the modern path connecting the towns and villages of the Camino in Spain is. Unless you have reason to believe otherwise?We've been through this before in an older thread. All that is known about this trip from Le Puy to Compostela is that it was in winter, the good bishop was in a hurry, he travelled with a large retinue, and he stopped at the abbey of Albelda in the vicinity of Logroño on the way back. Nothing else is known. He might have travelled on an old Roman road from Trier to Spain and across the Aubrac or elsewhere down the Rhone valley, given that it was winter. In any case, the bishop and his party did not travel on foot but we don't have the slightest clue where they actually travelled.
And the really fascinating thing about all this is that we can read the original here, although I can hardly decipher more than the first few words Ego quidem gomes and a bit further pampilonae albaildense, i.e. the name of the monk Gomez who copied a book for the bishop to take home and the words for Pamplona and Albelda, and then also gotiscalco epo, ie. bishop Godescalc. Luckily there are transcripts and even translations into a modern language, for example here.
All this is all fine and dandy if you are interested in that kind of thing. What I don't get, and here we come back to the original topic: why has this become so important to so many people who are not really into old manuscripts or medieval history and the life of an obscure bishop of the 10th century to the extent that it's being discussed and even fought over in online groups? Why is it not enough to say, hey, we worked out a great trail for you guys, walk it and enjoy it and regard it as a contemporary path where you can make pilgrimage to Santiago if that's what you'd like to do?
For those who would like to have a look but don't want to do much clicking around ☺:
View attachment 65595
A lot has been written about the lack of historicity of the way from Le Puy as a major pilgrimage road but most of it is not in English. I've quoted the work of Denise Péricard-Méa a few times. Here's a link to a summary article published in one the pilgrims associations' newsletter.Unless you have reason to believe otherwise?
I can't wait.Next weeks topic: Why do people think the Pilgrims' Menu is an especial treat reserved just for them?
Ah yes, but as they say over in the west - if I were going there, I wouldn't start from here!Just saying...
You're right. THE Camino starts in Oviedo. It's called the PrimitivoMembers will be aware that I am neither a contrarian nor a provocateur but that I do like, now and again, to ask questions a little beyond which is the best bar to discuss the best sleeping bag in.
So, as I viewed a thread started by a new member who is flying into Madrid and probably training it to Pamplona asking how to get from there to a small provincial French town in the western foothills of the Pyrenees, I wondered, again, why do people think that the Camino starts in St Jean pied de Porte?
Our new member could start walking to the shrine of Santiago from Pamplona, as many do. They could, if they were determined to travel away from Santiago before walking to Santiago, have made their way to historic Roncesvalles. They could, if they wanted to, head for Somport or Irun or even Barcelona but everyone wants to get to StJpdP and then leave it the following morning via a potentially crippling walk up and over a thumping great hill for no other reason that I can discern than "that its there" (Mallory, I forgive you) or because that is where their guide book starts.
With all due respects to @Monasp and the good folk of the Bureau des pèlerins de Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Why?
Here's something interesting: The March 1989 edition of Peregrino, the newsletter of the Spanish Camino associations.
Just today La Voz de Galicia published a paragraph about a story in its archives for 1992: twenty-seven people arriving by hot air balloon after a five-stage journey from RoncesvallesVery interesting indeed - and thank you for digging up this kind of information ! I am very intrigued by the 20 pilgrims arriving in a hot air balloon....
We are on message #300. I always feel that one may wander off a bit to the right or left when a thread has been going on for so long ☺. One very positive thing of this exchange: I think the Spanish word globo for balloon is now solidly lodged in my memory banks ☺. It's a word that appears in Duolingo exercises.Sorry for going a bit off topic.
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