Ron Cesvalles
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- C Frances 2012,2013,2015,2015,2016,2016,2017,2018,2018,2019,
Portuguese 2019
D’Assisi 2014,2019
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
View attachment 133366
The Camino needs pilgrims.
Scare stories of a crowded Camino Frances are not helpfull. For a few days at the end of May and end of August there is pressure on accomodation for a few days after St Jean but after that it is fine. I walk every year and have never had to sleep out and only a very few times have I had to walk on further than I intended.
I am currently in Ventosa and there have been no problems with accomodation even though it is what I consider the best time of the year for walking.
Speaking with albergue owners they tell me numbers are still down on pre covid.
The Camino will survive but my concern is for the small businesses that will not.
How I have already missed Eduardo’s caravan before Los Arcos and my naranca zuma in the cafe by the lake after Logrono.
Buen Camino.
I
I tend to agree with you Ron, that is until you hit Sarría and then it changes materially with accommodation at a scarcity (as we type).View attachment 133366
The Camino needs pilgrims.
Scare stories of a crowded Camino Frances are not helpfull. For a few days at the end of May and end of August there is pressure on accomodation for a few days after St Jean but after that it is fine. I walk every year and have never had to sleep out and only a very few times have I had to walk on further than I intended.
I am currently in Ventosa and there have been no problems with accomodation even though it is what I consider the best time of the year for walking.
Speaking with albergue owners they tell me numbers are still down on pre covid.
The Camino will survive but my concern is for the small businesses that will not.
How I have already missed Eduardo’s caravan before Los Arcos and my naranca zuma in the cafe by the lake after Logrono.
Buen Camino.
I
The easiest solution to that is to walk a short day, and get off-stage from the typical ones described. Suddenly you will have a lot of options.May be we are being unlucky with going at the same pace as two large supported groups as we are struggling to get accommodation last night in Astorga but their we're two spare top bunks and tonight in Rabanal del Camino
Still haven't got accommodation for tomorrow
But the camino always provides
According to this article, more Compostelas have been issued thus far in 2022 than the previous record set in 2019 when 347,578 pilgrims received Compostelas.
Halfway through Wednesday, September 21st the number was already at 348,230.
That is crazy - but not surprising! I know when I look at the postings of the number of pilgrims getting the Compolstela each day - some days look like "normal numbers" and other days the numbers seem really high. Again - 1st Post COVID summer AND a Holy Year! Anxious to see what the next 2 years look like. Will we level off next year? Or will the numbers keep climbing?I just posted a thread that 2022 has already broken previous records of pilgrims receiving Compostelas
Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive. I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. I also find an attitude of discontent from the local people who Do maintain a business. This is my first Camino….. it is challenging in every way. I don’t see how the Pueblos along the Camino de Santiago (Frances) can really survive. Where are the people?What a beautiful picture – that is the way I like to experience the Camino(s).
I believe that I know what you mean, but “The Camino needs pilgrims” gives the impression that the Camino is a business that we should support. For me, personally, that would never be an argument for walking a Camino. I would turn it around and say, “Pilgrims need Caminos”. As long as we are drawn to walk the Caminos, they will survive.
You are wrong. The Camino survived for centuries before the revitalization in the 20th century.Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive.
Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive. I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. I also find an attitude of discontent from the local people who Do maintain a business. This is my first Camino….. it is challenging in every way. I don’t see how the Pueblos along the Camino de Santiago (Frances) can really survive. Where are the people?
Are you currently walking?I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances.
Aren’t there already more pilgrims this year than in the previous record year? And that’s just based on Compostelas issued. There are many more who don’t bother or can’t apply for one.Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive. I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. I also find an attitude of discontent from the local people who Do maintain a business. This is my first Camino….. it is challenging in every way. I don’t see how the Pueblos along the Camino de Santiago (Frances) can really survive. Where are the people?
I agree.The Camino needs pilgrims.
Scare stories of a crowded Camino Frances are not helpful. For a few days at the beginning of May and end of August there is pressure on accommodation for a few days after St Jean but after that it is fine
As this article attests, there are parts of the Camino Frances where numbers of Pilgrims are well down on previous (normal) years, Meseta, parts where numbers are slightly down, St. Jean, and parts where numbers are well up, Sarria onwards.Here’s an interesting article that confirms what some have said —that there are parts of the Francés with declining numbers. So much so that the government of Castilla y León is putting together a “plan de choque” (crisis plan).
Agreed numbers were way down based on my experience this year, last week of April through mid May, SJPP to Santiago to Finisterre. Numbers were expected to be very high, this being a holy year and from pent up demand due to past years' restrictions due to plague. However, I saw the same amount of pilgrims this year as the exact same months in 2019 and far less than Sept/Oct 2017 (most crowded month in most crowded year recorded to that date) and Sept 2016. I had absolutely no problem getting albergue beds, and many nights I got a whole dorm room to myself. Only a couple alberges I stayed in were more than half full. Even Sarria, which had dozens of beds at 1300 day I arrived, still had some left by 1700 when I actually booked remotely. Upon arrival at 1800, I passed numerous albergues that still had vacancies. I think the perceptions of bed shortages might be because many albergues do not list all open beds on Booking.com, so even if Booking says no beds are available, there still may be some open. Just my experience after 8 Caminos since 2016. There were a few other pilgrims I met this year who did NOT find an open bed in Sarria the particular day they arrived there.View attachment 133366
The Camino needs pilgrims.
Scare stories of a crowded Camino Frances are not helpfull. For a few days at the end of May and end of August there is pressure on accomodation for a few days after St Jean but after that it is fine. I walk every year and have never had to sleep out and only a very few times have I had to walk on further than I intended.
I am currently in Ventosa and there have been no problems with accomodation even though it is what I consider the best time of the year for walking.
Speaking with albergue owners they tell me numbers are still down on pre covid.
The Camino will survive but my concern is for the small businesses that will not.
How I have already missed Eduardo’s caravan before Los Arcos and my naranca zuma in the cafe by the lake after Logrono.
Buen Camino.
I
You could be waiting a long time, to find out how long Europe will last. I am reading a book, slowly, entitled The Fate of Rome. They had their wars and rumours of war, their plagues and splits and new alliances.I agree.
As this article attests, there are parts of the Camino Frances where numbers of Pilgrims are well down on previous (normal) years, Meseta, parts where numbers are slightly down, St. Jean, and parts where numbers are well up, Sarria onwards.
We tend to talk about the CF as if it is a single thing but the reality is that different parts attract different people.
Like everything else in life, the Caminos are not constant, they ebb and change as people and events change.
I detect a different "flavour" to many of the people walking at the moment and I could try to analyse what is driving them but I doubt that I can capture this adequately.
I also suspect that some people who might have otherwise walked are holding back. I admit that I am in this category, I am wondering if Europe is going to be around for much longer and I am holding back to see.
It also doesn't help that airfares from my part of the world to Europe are much more expensive than they have traditionally been and so I am hoping that Europe remains an attractive destination and that air fares will reduce.
Numbers have fluctuated enormously over the centuries: "Some Approaches to the Archaeology of Christian Pilgrimage" Author(s): J. Stopford Source: World Archaeology , Jun., 1994, Vol. 26, No. 1, Archaeology of Pilgrimage (Jun., 1994), pp. 57-72 cites numbers of between half a million and two million arriving every year in Santiago in medieaval times. With the Reformation, Counter-Reformation and upheavals and wars of the 16th - 18th centuries numbers declined until by the 19th century there were practically none; leading the chapter of Santiago cathedral to try and revive the practice in 1870 and the more successful activities of Fr Elias and his contemporaries in the 1970's. As for empty villages, consider the example of Foncebadon, described in 1990s accounts by Shirley Maclaine and Nancy Frey as an abandoned wilderness infested by packs of marauding dogs. When I passed through in 2018 there was an albergue, two or three hotels and several thriving restaurants (and not a stray dog in sight). I think the camino will be still here long after I am past and gone. And considering what it has survived in the past, my money is on Europe being around for a while too. Those airfares do hurt though.Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive. I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. I also find an attitude of discontent from the local people who Do maintain a business. This is my first Camino….. it is challenging in every way. I don’t see how the Pueblos along the Camino de Santiago (Frances) can really survive. Where are the people?
I am waiting to see the numbers published by the Pilgrim office in SJPP but so far this year the numbers of pilgrims starting there are down from 2019. Arriving in Santiago there are many more though, and although the Santiago offices doesn’t publish very nuanced data it is easy enough to deduce that all these extra pilgrims are starting elsewhere… you can guess where.The albergue in Roncesvalles has been totally full during the whole month of September, including this week. The taxidrivers are running off and on in the afternoon. More pilgrims than in the same period in 2019, the last pre-covid year.
Thank you for the tip looking at samosI tend to agree with you Ron, that is until you hit Sarría and then it changes materially with accommodation at a scarcity (as we type).
Try to avoid the big towns or “Guide Book” recommended stage towns.
If for what ever reason one is concerned about a place to sleep during this final walk into Santiago, consult booking-dotcom or similar, or maybe phone the albergues directly.
If further assistance is required, the hospitalaros are always willing to lend a hand (in a quiet time away from the initial registration/check-in rush).
PS consider a stop over in Samos, an amazing monastery. The albergue attached is unique,
Buen Camino
For a broader picture, google España vacia or España vaciada or Empty Spain. Not only villages and small towns along parts of the Camino Frances but all over rural Spain have experienced massive depopulation since the 1950s and 1960s. And for several centuries before that time, these villages and small towns did not see any pilgrim or other tourist traffic that would be worth mentioning or would have made a noticeable economic impact. This changed only in the 1990s and especially during the last 20 years.I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. [...] Where are the people?
The SJPDP Pilgrims Office has posted graphs of pilgrim numbers on their Facebook pageI am waiting to see the numbers published by the Pilgrim office in SJPP
I meant for September, to see whether the reduced numbers continued. 15% is a notable drop for the rest of the year, and when viewed alongside the rise in arrivals it means that the ratio of 100 to 100+ pilgrims is growing.The SJPDP Pilgrims Office has posted graphs of pilgrim numbers on their Facebook page
I would be cautious about reading too much into this year's figures. Covid and its consequences may still be having an effect in deterring people from international travel. My impression has been that international pilgrims make up a disproportionately large part of those starting from SJPDP and Roncesvalles while the Spanish are more prominent amongst those walking shorter journeys. So it might not be so surprising to see a substantial dip in numbers on the early CF stages this year. If any decline in numbers continues at the same pace next year then perhaps we can call it a trend. Too soon to tell yet.I meant for September, to see whether the reduced numbers continued. 15% is a notable drop for the rest of the year, and when viewed alongside the rise in arrivals it means that the ratio of 100 to 100+ pilgrims is growing.
My hospitalero friends in Navarra, where I spent fifteen months, have been full many times this summer.Maybe there seem to be more beds in albergues because many people who normally would have stayed in albergues are opting for private rooms because of Covid.
I wonder if there are more guided tours which bring a lot of walkers. These tours do not support the albergues but more 'salubrious' accommodation. People tell me they are 'doing' the camino. They mean they are being facilitated through a nice walk each day. Most do not even realise the significance of a pilgrimage or know there are a multitude of pathways to Santiago.View attachment 133366
The Camino needs pilgrims.
Scare stories of a crowded Camino Frances are not helpfull. For a few days at the end of May and end of August there is pressure on accomodation for a few days after St Jean but after that it is fine. I walk every year and have never had to sleep out and only a very few times have I had to walk on further than I intended.
I am currently in Ventosa and there have been no problems with accomodation even though it is what I consider the best time of the year for walking.
Speaking with albergue owners they tell me numbers are still down on pre covid.
The Camino will survive but my concern is for the small businesses that will not.
How I have already missed Eduardo’s caravan before Los Arcos and my naranca zuma in the cafe by the lake after Logrono.
Buen Camino.
I
Fortunately, what other people do on the Camino rarely affects how I walk the Camino. Just so long as no one gets the last chocolate croissant before me!I wonder if there are more guided tours which bring a lot of walkers. These tours do not support the albergues but more 'salubrious' accommodation. People tell me they are 'doing' the camino. They mean they are being facilitated through a nice walk each day. Most do not even realise the significance of a pilgrimage or know there are a multitude of pathways to Santiago.
This rather implies you're somehow "doing it wrong" if you're staying in nicer accommodation. As I understand it historically the hostels exist to facilitate the pilgrimage for those people that cannot afford the nice accommodation. Saying everyone should stay in albergues (or saying albergues should be full) rather misses the point since then there will be people left out in the cold.I wonder if there are more guided tours which bring a lot of walkers. These tours do not support the albergues but more 'salubrious' accommodation. People tell me they are 'doing' the camino. They mean they are being facilitated through a nice walk each day. Most do not even realise the significance of a pilgrimage or know there are a multitude of pathways to Santiago.
In the early years of the Camino revival during the 1980s and 1990s there often was no choice but to use the pilgrim refugios. Many of the villages which now have albergues, hostals and bars had no services at all. And luggage transfer services did not exist either. So unless you had privately arranged vehicle backup carrying your own pack and sleeping in refugios were often your only option no matter how deep your pockets were.As I understand it historically the hostels exist to facilitate the pilgrimage for those people that cannot afford the nice accommodation.
'Napolitana', pleaseFortunately, what other people do on the Camino rarely affects how I walk the Camino. Just so long as no one gets the last chocolate croissant before me!
I think this is somewhat extreme and not necessarily borne out by the history of the Camino.Yes, the people/pilgrims need the Camino, but the truth is the Camino will not survive. I am astonished by the emptiness amd vacancy of the pueblos along the Camino Frances. I also find an attitude of discontent from the local people who Do maintain a business. This is my first Camino….. it is challenging in every way. I don’t see how the Pueblos along the Camino de Santiago (Frances) can really survive. Where are the people?
Certainly the Camino itself is not a business that we should support, but it is home to many endeavors that, like businesses, need pilgrims to continue. Some of those (favourite albergues, places to stop for refreshment, or otherwise support pilgrims) would certainly be at risk if the number of pilgrims suffered a drastic reduction over a long period of time. We've already seen some beloved albergues go. Eventually, I suspect these will be replaced by others, as traffic grows again, some of which may be as nice. But that doesn't mean that we won't miss old favourites that are gone.I believe that I know what you mean, but “The Camino needs pilgrims” gives the impression that the Camino is a business that we should support.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?