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Ted Bundy looked very harmless, but... Well, we all know what he did.No..not that....I've noticed several women have reported incidences of flashers and unwelcome attention,recently on the Portuguese. I've done this route a few times and can only recall the occasional strange looking bloke on the path but obviously I'm not target. Clearly this is distressing
This made me think how do women assess a situation/person to judge whether there is something dodgy going on? I recall different caminos in out of the way places in France and have often shared a room with a female and if anything I was aprehensive but I must be a harmless looking bloke! as they were totally unfazed and,like me,just wanted to sleep..but how do they know?! One incident surprised me and female friends I've told it to are amazed.....Once again in France I was lost (again) and standing on the side of the road looking at my guide book when a car stopped and woman driver asked if I was lost. I told her where I was headed and she offered me a lift. I hoped in and noticed her 3/4 year old child in the back. we took off and she said she had to stop in a shop..which she did and left me in the car with her child for about 10 minutes then she dropped me off. Even I was surprised as I wasn't even hitching,she offered a lift and had a child in the car...I must look very harmless! I do wonder what a female would have done if a car stopped,with a male driver,and was offered a lift.?....I'm guessing run a mile.
Exactly!That was sort of my point...how can you tell?
I was tempted to say wasnt Ted Bundy in Marrried With Children?
Thanks for your reply...yes it is a complex topic. And,yes,even i was surprised but very gratified that i got a lift as i was WAY off where i was supposed to beThe woman who offered you a lift sounds very trusting! Although I suppose she was doing you a favour, and believed you wouldn't repay her kindness with anything other than gratitude. I think the fact that you weren't asking for help also played a role - I am sure she would have been a little more wary if you'd been on the side of the road with your thumb out.
I think that, as a woman, there's a subtle feeling of being "on guard" a lot of the time. If I'm walking home late at night, or in a remote place and there's a lone male lurking about, whether or not he looks "dodgy" my heart-rate will rise and I will find myself crossing to the other side of the street (or even running to get home more quickly). But maybe I'm just paranoid, and this isn't a gender thing..
So yeah, we try and trust our instincts, but, as others have said, a predatory sexual offender can be a wolf in sheep's clothing. There's also the element of surprise: I've been the victim (well, more like witness) of exposure, and each time what gets me is the sheer unexpectedness of it, like, "wow, I not see that coming!" I think victims of more serious assaults often face a lot of guilt, questioning their instincts, etc, which just isn't fair. I think it must be particularly shocking on the camino, where many peregrinas find themselves enjoying a sense of freedom and trust in the goodness of life again; the whole 'camino provides' idea. I think it must be a real shock to the system to have that shattered by someone looking to get a kick out of showing his genitals (or worse). But of course we are guests in these camino countries, where "life goes on", including the less palatable sides of life that unfortunately manage to creep into the camino bubble.
One more thing: speaking for myself at least, I have found myself in a couple of dodgy situations, especially when I was younger, because of a "need to please." My instincts would be saying "No!" but I didn't want to offend. Probably stereotyping to say this applies to women more than men - obviously anyone can be a people-pleaser - but this has been my experience, as well as many of my female friends.
Ok well that post was longer than expected, ha ha. Guess it's a complex topic
No..not that....I've noticed several women have reported incidences of flashers and unwelcome attention,recently on the Portuguese. I've done this route a few times and can only recall the occasional strange looking bloke on the path but obviously I'm not target. Clearly this is distressing
This made me think how do women assess a situation/person to judge whether there is something dodgy going on? I recall different caminos in out of the way places in France and have often shared a room with a female and if anything I was aprehensive but I must be a harmless looking bloke! as they were totally unfazed and,like me,just wanted to sleep..but how do they know?! One incident surprised me and female friends I've told it to are amazed.....Once again in France I was lost (again) and standing on the side of the road looking at my guide book when a car stopped and woman driver asked if I was lost. I told her where I was headed and she offered me a lift. I hoped in and noticed her 3/4 year old child in the back. we took off and she said she had to stop in a shop..which she did and left me in the car with her child for about 10 minutes then she dropped me off. Even I was surprised as I wasn't even hitching,she offered a lift and had a child in the car...I must look very harmless! I do wonder what a female would have done if a car stopped,with a male driver,and was offered a lift.?....I'm guessing run a mile.
As the father of two wonderful young women this makes me so angry I don't know if I could be controlled if this had happened to one of my daughters. Men, including myself, have no idea the harassment or fear that women around the world must face.Read this reportage by Meaghan Beatley in
today's Guardian and weep for us all.
The shocking rape trial that galvanised Spain’s feminists – and the far right
The long read: The ‘wolf pack’ case inspired widespread anger and protests against sexual assault laws in Spain. But the anti-feminist backlash that followed has helped propel the far right to its biggest gains since Francowww.theguardian.com
Only YES is a YES!!!Read this reportage by Meaghan Beatley in
today's Guardian and weep for us all.
The shocking rape trial that galvanised Spain’s feminists – and the far right
The long read: The ‘wolf pack’ case inspired widespread anger and protests against sexual assault laws in Spain. But the anti-feminist backlash that followed has helped propel the far right to its biggest gains since Francowww.theguardian.com
WOW!! Thanks for sharing.Read this reportage by Meaghan Beatley in
today's Guardian and weep for us all.
The shocking rape trial that galvanised Spain’s feminists – and the far right
The long read: The ‘wolf pack’ case inspired widespread anger and protests against sexual assault laws in Spain. But the anti-feminist backlash that followed has helped propel the far right to its biggest gains since Francowww.theguardian.com
No..not that....I've noticed several women have reported incidences of flashers and unwelcome attention,recently on the Portuguese. I've done this route a few times and can only recall the occasional strange looking bloke on the path but obviously I'm not target. Clearly this is distressing
This made me think how do women assess a situation/person to judge whether there is something dodgy going on? I recall different caminos in out of the way places in France and have often shared a room with a female and if anything I was aprehensive but I must be a harmless looking bloke! as they were totally unfazed and,like me,just wanted to sleep..but how do they know?! One incident surprised me and female friends I've told it to are amazed.....Once again in France I was lost (again) and standing on the side of the road looking at my guide book when a car stopped and woman driver asked if I was lost. I told her where I was headed and she offered me a lift. I hoped in and noticed her 3/4 year old child in the back. we took off and she said she had to stop in a shop..which she did and left me in the car with her child for about 10 minutes then she dropped me off. Even I was surprised as I wasn't even hitching,she offered a lift and had a child in the car...I must look very harmless! I do wonder what a female would have done if a car stopped,with a male driver,and was offered a lift.?....I'm guessing run a mile.
To add...
I'd be interested to know what the facts are on how frequently a guy waiting in the bushes to show his willie is actually also a rapist.
I am glad you were there to thwart off what could have turned into an unfortunate situation.My wife and I were walking last October on the Camino, coming through a town very early in the morning. I saw a guy coming toward us who I was sure was getting ready to expose himself. My wife never noticed anything. My only thought was "please do it", because I was totally ready to humiliate the guy and even get into a physical confrontation, if necessary. But, he buckled his belt and veered away from us.
In discussing the incident later with my wife and also other women on the Camino, I learned these things:
1. That lightweight hiking pole isn't what you want if you get into a confrontation with a jerk. Something with a hardwood knob on the top, and with some mass throughout is preferable. It's not your first line of defense, but it's there if you need it.
2. If you're in a situation where you feel vulnerable, start yelling like all get out. It won't matter what you're saying, because they likely don't speak your lingo anyhow. But it will attract attention, and that's the last thing an attacker wants.
3. Women must be aggressive in their own defense, and process the situation quickly. One woman I spoke with about this incident said that the only reason the perpetrator backed off was that I was a confrontational male. I believe that anyone who is inclined to expose himself is extremely vulnerable to humiliation, and that humiliation is the best defensive approach to such people. If that doesn't work, then the hardwood hiking stick and lots of yelling.
I personally would not call that 'an incident'. You were offered a ride, he accepted 'no' as an answer.I took a womens self defense class the #1 rule- NEVER get in a strangers car! The only incident I ever had was walking up to the lighthouse in Finisterre, he pulled up next to me, nodding his head to seat next to him, i used the shake finger NO sign and away he went. Not a word spoken.
It is a complex topic. My first Camino is this September and from everything I've read, peregrinos are a trusting, caring, and helpful lot. So I think my tendency will be to trust and yet as a woman I know that can be very dangerous. So yes, we are always on guard. I hope that by my age (63) my instinct for pervs is pretty good but in a trusting environment I can't predict that. Sad to say that many of us have to employ preventive measures in the unlikely event we will have to protect ourselves.The woman who offered you a lift sounds very trusting! Although I suppose she was doing you a favour, and believed you wouldn't repay her kindness with anything other than gratitude. I think the fact that you weren't asking for help also played a role - I am sure she would have been a little more wary if you'd been on the side of the road with your thumb out.
I think that, as a woman, there's a subtle feeling of being "on guard" a lot of the time. If I'm walking home late at night, or in a remote place and there's a lone male lurking about, whether or not he looks "dodgy" my heart-rate will rise and I will find myself crossing to the other side of the street (or even running to get home more quickly). But maybe I'm just paranoid, and this isn't a gender thing..
So yeah, we try and trust our instincts, but, as others have said, a predatory sexual offender can be a wolf in sheep's clothing. There's also the element of surprise: I've been the victim (well, more like witness) of exposure, and each time what gets me is the sheer unexpectedness of it, like, "wow, I not see that coming!" I think victims of more serious assaults often face a lot of guilt, questioning their instincts, etc, which just isn't fair. I think it must be particularly shocking on the camino, where many peregrinas find themselves enjoying a sense of freedom and trust in the goodness of life again; the whole 'camino provides' idea. I think it must be a real shock to the system to have that shattered by someone looking to get a kick out of showing his genitals (or worse). But of course we are guests in these camino countries, where "life goes on", including the less palatable sides of life that unfortunately manage to creep into the camino bubble.
One more thing: speaking for myself at least, I have found myself in a couple of dodgy situations, especially when I was younger, because of a "need to please." My instincts would be saying "No!" but I didn't want to offend. Probably stereotyping to say this applies to women more than men - obviously anyone can be a people-pleaser - but this has been my experience, as well as many of my female friends.
Ok well that post was longer than expected, ha ha. Guess it's a complex topic
My advice for women walking solo is to ALWAYS try to pick up "tag alongs" each morning or at a cafe stop. All you need to do is ask them if you can "tag along" with them. You do not have to become BFFs (best friends forever), or even walk next to each other.
All you do is introduce yourself and ask if you can walk along with them. What you are seeking to do is keep others within eyesight at all times, even if they are 100 meters in front or behind you. This way if you get into a problem, one shout should bring help.
In every instance of flashing or other inappropriate behavior the 'victim' is always a woman walking solo out of sight of other pilgrims. I handled a case like this last summer when I was working at the Pilgrim Office. I had to take a young lady to the Nacional Police station to file a complaint.
In any event, without even speculating why this is a problem, simply keeping other pilgrims in sight is the easy way to go. In the off-season, it is more of a problem as there are fewer pilgrims out there. But now, you should have no problem.
I suggest that solo females scout out likely tag alongs the evening they arrive. One can determine, in the dinner camaraderie if someone is to be relied on the following day. If you casually ask what time they are leaving he next morning, you can coordinate your departure.
I know that this will help someone avoid being apprehensive or at risk. The Camino IS very safe, but there are any number of societal reasons for some of this crass misbehavior. Avoidance and strength in numbers is the safe bet.
Be safe out there.
I would be interested to know some facts related to your experience assisting women who have been assaulted. Facts are useful in dealing with real risk. To start with, how often have you had to do this? Weekly? Daily? Were there any commonalities as to location or circumstances of the assaults?I do not disagree with you. In the final analysis, it comes down to your personal comfort factor. If you are a regular solo outdoors person of the female persuasion and confident of your capabilities and decisions, then go for it. I respect that choice.
OTOH, if this is a once in a lifetime activity, there are a few simple things one can do to increase a safety or confidence margin, EVEN IF there is no threat.
Every person and situation is different, and each adult must make an adult choice. My suggestions are based on experience and speaking with a lot of women who do the Camino solo.
I have also had to take women to the police station to report assault when they arrived at Santiago...the incidents occurred before their arrival. It is NOT something I relish doing, but they need an advocate.
I would be interested to know some facts related to your experience assisting women who have been assaulted. Facts are useful in dealing with real risk. To start with, how often have you had to do this? Weekly? Daily? Were there any commonalities as to location or circumstances of the assaults?
Thank you for your service to our sisters.
I have watched this thread with interest for a while.
In my younger days I ran long distances, then as my knees protested, in my mid 30's I turned to walking.
I am a very fair skinned blonde prone to skin cancer, and have always worked full time. As a result of these factors, most of my running or walking training has been by necessity in the early morning hours in the dark, and occasionally in the evening also in the dark. Because I tend to train for long walks, I am often out walking for hours and therefore cover quite a distance.
People often ask me if I am scared and the answer is Yes, of course I am.
I have had two very close encounters that I was lucky to escape from with my life. Both perpetrators were men. One I believe was more of a chance encounter in a secluded spot, the man in the second incident had hunted in the area over several weeks, and 3 other women died before he was caught. I was extremely lucky.
For months after the second incident I was truly terrified every time I left the house; my heart would race and I would have to force myself outside.
Both incidents occurred in 'nice safe' desirable areas between the hours of 1pm and 3pm in the afternoon in broad daylight. I even had my German Shepherd dog with me the first time - that was not a deterrent.
I have been yelled at, grabbed at through car windows, swerved at by vehicles, verbally harassed and threatened, flashed at - again all in the day time.
However I refuse to reduce my quality of life, and make myself a prisoner in my own home too afraid to go out, so I am particularly careful. I select my routes carefully, for lighting, my ability to have an escape route if necessary. I watch for anything out of the ordinary, and take evasive action immediately. Vans following me, cars slowing ahead of me, a solitary figure or figures outlined ahead etc. I usually also have one of my dogs. I always have a credit card with me in case I want to call a cab, and my phone.
The other thing that I do sadly, is to look as androgynous as possible, my hair up under a cap, baggy grey clothes. With my hair and figure hidden I am hardly ever harassed. It seems the less female I look the safer I am.
I have also discovered that offenders rarely take the energy to walk anywhere to offend. If its not accessible by car - they don't bother.
Ironically all incidents have happened in daylight - it appears offenders like to sleep in.
I have always felt safe on the Camino as I am truly only ever alone by choice. I can dress in normal clothes, shorts and show my hair- I am never afraid there.
Please don't unless you really have the skills to use it and are prepared to do so. Carrying a knife gets people into far more trouble than it avoids. Furthermore it is illegal to carry a knife in Spain unless it's a folding knife with a blade of less than 3" long.(snip)
Second, I will be buying a knife in SJPP. It will be more knife than I need to cut twine and open packages, kept on my person visible to others. If you're going to rape/abduct a woman do you chose the person with a visible weapon or the one that has only their poles? Do you keep moving towards the crazy redhead blowing her whistle and pointing?
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