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I do mean the original. That is the 9th and 10th century. But if you do have information on that route used in later times, I'll be glad to hear about it.
Alas, my feet believe you but my heart doesn't. Often, when lost, and then found, I have come to the conclusion that I was never lost at all but simply my feet were following a more ancient route!No matter which century, the route the pilgrims followed depended also on the weather. If the Vega de Valcarlos route was flooded, because of snow melt or heavy rains, they would have taken one of the mountain routes. If the valley route was clear, they would have taken this one as it was less strenuous. There really isn't ONE ORIGINAL ROUTE, pilgrims adapted and still adapt to the circumstances.
BC SY
"As evry fule no" (thank you Molesworth). There are three "modern" routes out of Villafranca none of which make entire sense for a sandal and sackcloth wearing pious peasant 'cos they all lead to O'Cebreiro which is a great lump of a mountain to scale even when the weather is "nice". The current Camino Frances was laid out by an enthusiastic Priest with later "assistance" from lots of other enthusiasts, interested parties and others of debatable intent and has wriggled like a rattler on hot gravel in search of a "cool" spot.There really isn't ONE ORIGINAL ROUTE, pilgrims adapted and still adapt to the circumstances.
And can we see that on a modern map, please?Iter brevissimum
Ab 'Bergido' ad 'Luco Augusti'
Summa LXX Milia Passuum / Leuga Gallica.
Fere V dies.
Bergido (Cacabelos) xvi.- Uttaris
xx.- Ponte Neviae
xii.- Timalino
xxii. Luco Augusti (Lugo)
I am pretty sure it is under macadam. Romans didn't build roads for scenery. Short and easy.It's the contemporary Camino Frances from Cacabelos to Ruitelán, isn't it,
The only official name for Los Nogales is As Nogais (that is feminine !).And can we see that on a modern map, please?
It's the contemporary Camino Frances from Cacabelos to Ruitelán, isn't it, then it turns north, away from the modern road, to Los Nogales, Baralla, and finally Lugo.
Oh, thank you! I corrected my earlier post a bit. Geogle Earth had already corrected me ☺: I had searched for Los Nogales, Galicia in Google Earth and when I saved the pin I didn't even notice that it correctly said As Nogais which is the official name as you pointed out.The only official name for Los Nogales is As Nogais (that is feminine !).
In Google Maps the name is Nogales that was the official one before democracy. Also the name for O Cebreiro is El Cebrero, Portomarin/Puertomarin, etc. Names in Spanish in Franco times and previous that still remain in Google Maps.
LOL, in vain ... I see on the website that they do call it Via Künig. The French Way via Lugo. They are right, however, when they say that this road that the 15th century monk from abroad followed when he travelled from France to Santiago and back home is the prototype of a historical road as it was first a Roman road, then a medieval camino and later a Camino Real that served as an entry into Galicia. Apologies for the thread drift, @Niels, reading your posts again, I guess you are really looking for the Camino Olvidado.Just because some people, coming from France and on their way to Santiago, may or may not have travelled there, doesn't make it a pilgrimage way of the calibre of the Camino Frances. All these old roads were first and foremost communication and trade roads.
There are efforts to have this track - Ruitelán, As Nogais, Baralla, Becerreá, O Corgo and Lugo that follows the Roman Road defined by the stations Uttaris, Ponte Neviae, Timalina and Luco Augusti
You are likely referring to a route known as the Dragonte. It is a wonderful, but challenging, route option from Villafranca del Bierzo. It is not to be missed! Certainly remains as one of my all-time favourite days while walking many Camino routes. You can find very up-to-date and detailed information about this route on the FB group page: Friends of Dragonte. I walked this route in 2018 and still have vivid memories of the spectacular views and beautiful surroundings with very few fellow pilgrims. If you decide to walk this route, I can highly recommend that you stay in Albergue Leo in Villafranca del Bierzo as they are quite knowledgeable about the route and have been involved in the route's regeneration. As a bonus, when we told them that we were referred to them by the FB group, they gave us complementary drinks on arrival!Hello there,
Trying to research the original Camino Francés. From Villafranca del Beirzo today there is a multitude of routes. But I seem to remember having read, that the original may have passed through the mountaineous area with all the monasteries way north all of the ones in use today. Has anyone more information on this matter? Especially which areas/ places the this route passed.
This is the current route of the A6 motorway.
In 1779 was followed in reverse by future president of USA John Adams and his son John Q. Adams on their way to France to look for support for the independence.
There is a thread called "the American Camino". If you search with John Adams you will find it.I would very much like to read an account of that trip! Can you help me find one?
I can't imagine that they thought well of 18th C Spanish Catholicism!
I sometimes wonder about 'original' routes. Medieval pilgrims would have followed many trails along the one route. Where is there water, where is there a refuge or monastery to sleep, where is the most likely place to run into bandits. Where is there a bridge. From Villafranca there is a river for water, bathing and fishing for food so a good trail. On the other hand, lots of cover for bandits. But then, more habitacions so possibly more chance of a bed. And of course, they would probably have to take long detours along rivers to find fords where we today have bridges cutting out a lot of the original trails. Good luck with your research but I doubt anyone will ever accurately pinpoint any 'original' routes. It can, in my opinion, only be a reasonably accurate guess.Hello there,
Trying to research the original Camino Francés. From Villafranca del Beirzo today there is a multitude of routes. But I seem to remember having read, that the original may have passed through the mountaineous area with all the monasteries way north all of the ones in use today. Has anyone more information on this matter? Especially which areas/ places the this route passed.
Hi Niels, I have family who have lived most of their lives in Villafranca del Bierzo, they and my mother were born in a small mountain village nearby.Hello there,
Trying to research the original Camino Francés. From Villafranca del Beirzo today there is a multitude of routes. But I seem to remember having read, that the original may have passed through the mountaineous area with all the monasteries way north all of the ones in use today. Has anyone more information on this matter? Especially which areas/ places the this route passed.
I would very much like to read an account of that trip! Can you help me find one?
I can't imagine that they thought well of 18th C Spanish Catholicism!
I have to say, I don't quite agree. They would go for the least deserted and the one with at least a possibilty of a meal and a bed. We're talking about the 10th century, and the accommodations available were not plentifull. I mean, not every way would have an option. Which means, at this time there might have been a favourite.No matter which century, the route the pilgrims followed depended also on the weather. If the Vega de Valcarlos route was flooded, because of snow melt or heavy rains, they would have taken one of the mountain routes. If the valley route was clear, they would have taken this one as it was less strenuous. There really isn't ONE ORIGINAL ROUTE, pilgrims adapted and still adapt to the circumstances.
BC SY
Thank you very much. It's very helpful. But I think, the trail I was looking for must have been the one on Camino Olvidado or I'll have to check the northern one from Astorga, too. The roman roads are so inspirational. It makes me want to try them out!!This is what we are talking about: Roman roads that were still used by pilgrims in the Middle Ages. The roads in red are the traces of Roman roads that I downloaded from http://www.viasromanas.net/ but they only cover Castilla y Leon. The section Astorga-Manzanal pass-Bembibre-Ponferrada was popular with medieval pilgrims but also in later centuries. The section Ruitelán-Lugo is only sketched in yellow, I don't know where to find a kmz file. This section was also still popular in later centuries. @Niels, does any of this ring a bell? Unless you were thinking of the roads further to the east of Villafranca del Bierzo that are mentioned earlier in this thread?
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I'm a member - and walked Ruta Dragonte last summe with my kids. One of the most beautiful camino experiences, I've had.You are likely referring to a route known as the Dragonte. It is a wonderful, but challenging, route option from Villafranca del Bierzo. It is not to be missed! Certainly remains as one of my all-time favourite days while walking many Camino routes. You can find very up-to-date and detailed information about this route on the FB group page: Friends of Dragonte. I walked this route in 2018 and still have vivid memories of the spectacular views and beautiful surroundings with very few fellow pilgrims. If you decide to walk this route, I can highly recommend that you stay in Albergue Leo in Villafranca del Bierzo as they are quite knowledgeable about the route and have been involved in the route's regeneration. As a bonus, when we told them that we were referred to them by the FB group, they gave us complementary drinks on arrival!
I don't know the Camino Olvidado at all. From the blurb I read about it it seems to have what you mentioned: monasteries, mountains, Roman roads and bridges, and a claim that it was the main pilgrimage route to Santiago for pilgrims coming from France during the period 9th to 11th century. It appears to me, though, from the little I've read and found, that that claim still rests on somewhat shaky grounds. Also, it joins the Camino Frances near Villafranca del Bierzo, ie doesn't bypass it further north.I think, the trail I was looking for must have been the one on Camino Olvidado
Well, maybe. But our modern camino standards have gotten super picky. No doubt a lot of pilgrims in those days carried food to eat and slept rough - a church porch, a barn, or even under a bridge are shelter enough. And the houses wouldn't have been much better. This from John Adams in the late 1700s - in the link that @mspath posted above:and the one with at least a possibilty of a meal and a bed.
Beds, anyone?"The House where We lodge is of Stone … No floor but the ground, and no Carpet but Straw, trodden into mire, by Men, Hogs, Horses, Mules, &c …. On the same floor with the Kitchen was the Stable … There was no Chimney. The Smoke ascended and found no other Passage … The Smoke filled every Part of the Kitchen, Stable, and other [Parts] of the House, as thick as possible so that it was very difficult to see or breath … The Mules, Hogs, fowls, and human Inhabitants live however all together … The floor had never been washed nor swept for an hundred Years – Smoak, soot, Dirt, every where."
From the same source:I can't imagine that they thought well of 18th C Spanish Catholicism!
There's the answer to your question @rappahannock_rev!Nothing appears rich but the Churches, nobody fat, but the Clergy
I had come across this type of "decision making" at several times along the Camino. It used to make me smile, I would often stop at the "junction of decision" just to see and listen to how people made their decisions, it was often surprising.
It does.the Olvidado joins the Frances at Cacabelos
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