Vicarie pro

[El Cascayal]

A question about the “vicarie pro”. Wondering, is it only allowed for those who are deceased? I have always requested it for the living.

 

[Bradypus]

A question about the “vicarie pro”. Wondering, is it only allowed for those who are deceased? I have always requested it for the living.

I believe you can request it in the name of a person who is unable to walk themselves because of disability. Though I cannot find any definite authority for that.

 

[henrythedog]

I believe you can request it in the name of a person who is unable to walk themselves because of disability. Though I cannot find any definite authority for that.

I haven’t checked on Mrs HtD for a couple of hours; but I obtained a compostela VP herself in February. I wasn’t actually asked for a reason.

I have an earlier one VP Henry, who I confess to not declaring to be an (actual) dog. Whilst the current earthly authorities may not approve I’m confident I’ve got St Francis on my side.

 

[El Cascayal]

I confess, I have my dogs covered as well and en el año santo! Xacobeo
PS: I’ve never done it for any of my dead, because they walk with me.

 

[MinaKamina]

A question about the “vicarie pro”. Wondering, is it only allowed for those who are deceased? I have always requested it for the living.

In the old days, if I felt like not doing the Camino myself, I might hire you to do the pilgrimage in my name.

 

[Kathar1na]

Indulgences can always be applied either to oneself or to the souls of the deceased, but they cannot be applied to other persons living on earth (as stated on www.vatican.va).

Compostelas can be issued on behalf of anyone (vicarie pro) whether alive or deceased.

The fine distinction between Indulgence and Compostela is not always obvious to every peregrino as numerous forum threads show … .

 

[t2andreo]

A question about the “vicarie pro”. Wondering, is it only allowed for those who are deceased? I have always requested it for the living.

It is my understanding and direct experience from working in the Pilgrim Office over some eight years, that the "In Vicare Pro" add-on to a Compostela is for the deceased, and for those, whose age or physical condition effectively precludes that person from ever walking a Camino to earn the Compostela themselves.

The office staff and volunteers have literally seen everything, and heard every rationale under the sun. But, in my personal experience, they are very compassionate and understanding. In an highly unque situation, if an accommodation can be found, they will find it.

Also, and in a related vein, this is the ONLY exception to the hard rule that every pilgrim must apply for their own Compostela in person. We have many instances where a wife shows up to claim her and her husband's Compostelas, as the husband is back at the hotel, or in a cafe.

NOPE! If you are a living, mobile person, with a credencial, you MUST present yourself in person. Even living in a wheelchair or having to use crutches, per se, is not a bar to receiving a Compostela. We have many people who pull, wheel, or push themselves, or walk with crutches to Santiago every year.

Thus, I can name as "In Vicare Pro' my 90-year old mother who has vascular dementia. But, age is not the determining condition. Rather, it is the totality of limits on the person's mobility. Let common sense and compassion be your guide.

We have even had instances where one spouse literally dies on the Cmaino on their way to Santiago. The surviving spouse, completes the journey with both credencials, obtaining double stamps (in each credencial) along the Camino. We have to patiently explain to the spouse presenting two credentials that, while we will stamp the deceased person's credencial as a courtesy, a Compostela can not be issued. HOWEVER, we always explain the "in Vicare Pro" caveat and are happy to do this.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Robertb345]

Don't know if this helps
https://floresdeloscaminosasantiago.eu/vicarie-pro-to-santiago-for-another-person/

I glad you asked the question, because I had not heard of it and like the concept. Thank you.

 

[C clearly]

Don't know if this helps

As I understand the situation, there are some inaccurate statements such as as pilgrims needing to take confession before getting a Compostela.

 

[Bradypus]

As I understand the situation, there are some inaccurate statements such as as pilgrims needing to take confession before getting a Compostela.

I didn't read it that way. At the point where confession is mentioned the writer is talking about an indulgence which does require confession and receiving holy communion amongst other religious conditions. Though it is easy to get confused about the relationship between the Compostela and a plenary indulgence.

 

[Flog]

It is my understanding and direct experience from working in the Pilgrim Office over some eight years, that the "In Vicare Pro" add-on to a Compostela is for the deceased, and for those, whose age or physical condition effectively precludes that person from ever walking a Camino to earn the Compostela themselves.

The office staff and volunteers have literally seen everything, and heard every rationale under the sun. But, in my personal experience, they are very compassionate and understanding. In an highly unque situation, if an accommodation can be found, they will find it.

If you wish to have your compostela dedicated to someone who is deceased or is incapacitated and unable to walk and obtain a compostela for themselves, you just have to name that person and the compostela will be made out in your own name and dedicated (in Vicare Pro) to that person. Pilgrims generally don't take this lightly.

But there's absolutely no onus on you to provide any kind of proof regarding that person and nobody is going to check it.

However, this is something for your own conscience.

 

[woody66]

Hi!
Not sure if i am on the right track here!
When i walked in 2021 i went to the desk and asked can i have my Compostela in my children s names.
(My kids are alive and well no one asked y questions)
Volunteer wanted their names and then handed me the Compostela.
Woody

 

[Flog]

Hi!
Not sure if i am on the right track here!
When i walked in 2021 i went to the desk and asked can i have my Compostela in my children s names.
(My kids are alive and well no one asked y questions)
Volunteer wanted their names and then handed me the Compostela.
Woody

In those circumstances, it shouldn't have been given out as this isn't the intended purpose of such a dedication. In my experience, most pilgrims who request a compostela In Vicare Pro are already aware and are respectful of the tradition.

Of course it should also be noted, staff and volunteers are human for the most part and as such aren't infallible and don't always get everything right.

 

[woody66]

Hi Flog and all!
No disrespect was intended when i asked for my Compostela ;as until this thread i was completely unaware of Vicare Pro, it's meaning or purpose.
I had done something special in my life and wanted to dedicate it to my kids!
It was done as an act of love for them which i hope is the spirit carried in all of us.
Woody

 

[SabsP]

In those circumstances, it shouldn't have been given out as this isn't the intended purpose of such a dedication. In my experience, most pilgrims who request a compostela In Vicare Pro are already aware and are respectful of the tradition.

Of course it should also be noted, staff and volunteers are human for the most part and as such aren't infallible and don't always get everything right.

I understand what you mean but I was telling someone yesterday that the website from the Oficina could do with some serious editing.
It is not always easy to navigate the site and the translations are not always clear and precise.

I also think that the overall majority of pilgrims mean to do well and do not want to cheat.
I also do understand that staff and volunteers do their utmost best.

 

[Kathar1na]

@woody66, I am quite good at finding stuff on the internet and I have never found anything about the vicarie pro option on any of the official websites of the Pilgrim Office or the Cathedral of Santiago. We have to go by what we hear from others. It is not surprising that there is uncertainty and a lack of clarity.

Also, all too often requirements for Compostela and for Indulgence get terribly mixed up (like on the website mentioned earlier). It is a pity that there is not a better information policy in this digital age and better maintenance of official websites for pilgrims but I don’t think this will change any time soon …

 

[gargar]

Can you have two separate if you are walking for 2 intentions, one who passed away and one fighting against cancer? I would like to present it to them or their loved ones.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Can you have two separate if you are walking for 2 intentions, one who passed away and one fighting against cancer? I would like to present it to them or their loved ones.

I'm not sure it's a matter of intentions; it is a 'vicarious' pilgrimage, that is, in the place of a deceased person, or one impeded by illness or disability.

 

[Kmvreter]

Scrolling through the forums and found this thread. First I've heard of it so a little late with my questions...

How does this work? Is the Vicarie Pro a separate document/compostela? Do you have to make your intent known when signing up for the QR code or request it when you arrive at the Pilgrim's Office? Do you need a separate Credencial for it?

 

[alexwalker]

From my time in the PO, I have helped a few pilgrims with this. The PO never asked any questions, but issued it promptly. I think it is between you and your concience if you are asking for this for a rightful/deserved reason.

Scrolling through the forums and found this thread. First I've heard of it so a little late with my questions...

How does this work? Is the Vicarie Pro a separate document/compostela? Do you have to make your intent known when signing up for the QR code or request it when you arrive at the Pilgrim's Office? Do you need a separate Credencial for it?

The Vicario Pro is an add-on to your compostela. It will be handwritten on it. It enables a pilgrim to have his Compostela issued to him in his name, but to have added on it "In Vicario Pro "name": "In the name of "name"".

By doing this, you are the walker/pilgrim but the person "name" will receive the benefit of your Compostela. To be even more precise: The Compostela is issued in your name, but you have transferred your Compostela rights & benefits to the other person "name".

I did it myself once, in the name of a poor young man who was brutally murdered. His Catholic mother was very happy, knowing that her son was forgiven whatever sins he might had done in life, avoiding purgatory, and going straight to Heaven. Must make another walk for myself to be absolutely safe...

 

[Bradypus]

How does this work? Is the Vicarie Pro a separate document/compostela? Do you have to make your intent known when signing up for the QR code or request it when you arrive at the Pilgrim's Office? Do you need a separate Credencial for it?

It is simply a written addition at the bottom of your Compostela which says "vicarie pro" followed by the name of the person you have dedicated the journey to. Not a separate document and no extra credencial required. I can't see anywhere in the new registration system to request it - I think you would have to ask the pilgrim office volunteer at the time. There's an example of a vicarie pro Compostela in this news story:

Tipperary man Michael Kelly completes mammoth 780km Camino trek

When Leugh man Michael Kelly limped into Santiago de Compostela last week, he was braving shin splints to complete an arduous trek of just under 780 kilometers. The Camino Francés is a pilgrimage path that runs from the French border to the cathedral city of Santiago in Galicia, north-western...

www.tipperarylive.ie

 

[Kmvreter]

Thank you for the clarifications.
My 95 year old mother will be surprised.

 

[David Tallan]

One more clarification....
Is it "In vicare pro" or "in vacarie pro" or "in vicario pro" (three options that I've seen above) or something else? Perhaps someone with a Compostela with the phrase can check?

I'm wondering if I can mark my credential similarly.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

From my time in the PO, I have helped a few pilgrims with this. The PO never asked any questions, but issued it promptly. I think it is between you and your concience if you are asking for this for a rightful/deserved reason.



The Vicario Pro is an add-on to your compostela. It will be handwritten on it. It enables a pilgrim to have his Compostela issued to him in his name, but to have added on it "In Vicario Pro "name": "In the name of "name"".

By doing this, you are the walker/pilgrim but the person "name" will receive the benefit of your Compostela. To be even more precise: The Compostela is issued in your name, but you have transferred your Compostela rights & benefits to the other person "name".

I did it myself once, in the name of a poor young man who was brutally murdered. His Catholic mother was very happy, knowing that her son was forgiven whatever sins he might had done in life, avoiding purgatory, and going straight to Heaven. Must make another walk for myself to be absolutely safe...

There are NO rights or benefits associated with a Compostela. It is merely a recognition of a completed pilgrimage, and in vicarie pro indicates your dedication of that pilgrimage to another person.

 

[alexwalker]

There are NO rights or benefits associated with a Compostela. It is merely a recognition of a completed pilgrimage, and in vicarie pro indicates your dedication of that pilgrimage to another person.

What i really meant.

 

[Bradypus]

One more clarification....
Is it "In vicare pro" or "in vacarie pro" or "in vicario pro" (three options that I've seen above) or something else? Perhaps someone with a Compostela with the phrase can check?

I'm wondering if I can mark my credential similarly.

Using Google to search for images of Compostelas with the text I've found "Vicarie pro" and "Vicari pro" but none have had "in" or "In".

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Using Google to search for images of Compostelas with the text I've found "Vicarie pro" and "Vicari pro" but none have had "in" or "In".

Correct.

 

[Flog]

In 2019, I was shown to write it as:
In Vicare Pro, which is how I have written it since, though I have seen other variations written by others..

Perhaps someone can answer definitively?

 

[Kathar1na]

One more clarification.... Is it "In vicare pro" or "in vacarie pro" or "in vicario pro" (three options that I've seen above) or something else? Perhaps someone with a Compostela with the phrase can check?

I don't have a Compostela to check but I had wondered about this Latin phrase and its grammatical form recently.

In Latin, vicarius is both a noun and an adjective. Both can have the ending -e, that is vicarie. If a noun, vicarie would be the vocative case which makes no sense in the given context. If an adjective, vicarie would be the adverbial form, similar to the -ly ending of adjectives in English (example: happy, happily). Latin pro is English for and never changes its endings.

So vicarie pro is literally vicariously for.

Seen strictly from the point of view of Latin grammar and vocabulary I would not know how to analyse and interpret any other version such as the ones listed in the quote.

 

[t2andreo]

The correct annotation is "Vicare Pro." The "in" bit sort of crept in over the years. But the two Latin words say it all.

You can add it to your Compostela in a suitable pen and ink if you wish.

Often, a pilgrim will request their Compostela with the "Vicare Pro (name)" annotation added by pilgrim office staff. They might then also ask for a second Compostela with only their name on it.

This usually means the pilgrim wishes to gift the "Vicare Pro" annotated version to the parents, spouse or partner of the person to whom the Camino was dedicated. I is usually accommodated. Remember to ask nice.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Kathar1na]

The correct spelling and correct grammar form is vicarie pro with an -i-.

The spelling in the thread title is correct. The Latin word is vicarius and vicarie is a grammatical form of vicarius.

 

[FoxTerry]

Can you have two separate if you are walking for 2 intentions, one who passed away and one fighting against cancer? I would like to present it to them or their loved ones.

No, sorry, It is not possible.