Charles Ross
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Two people to walk the Camino de Santiago in the spring of (2018)
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have always adjusted my poles so that they are LONGER for going downhill! This helps me to stay upright and saves me using my nose for a snow ploughI am not at all an expert on this topic, so please take my comments accordingly!
Different people have different needs for their poles. I am more interested in having them help my balance, posture and rhythm, with a minor relief of load. It sounds to me like you want to use the poles as weight-bearing canes or crutches, and only to assist on uphill stretches. I am not surprised that you carry them when you walk on flat ground, if they are too short to help much with walking.
Here is my amateur analysis... On a bicycle, your body is fixed in position relative to the bicycle. When you walk, your body is moving forward relative to the pole and its point of contact with the ground. When you plant the pole and stride forward, by the time the downward force is transmitted to the ground, the pole will have passed the point of being perpendicular to the ground. At that point, your hand will be closer to the ground. If your poles were too short at the start, they will not be able to take any weight as you follow through. When they leave the ground the contact point with the ground should will be well behind your body.
Mine are fixed at the length that gives me a 90 degree angle, and I adjust my hand position on the poles to account for ascents, descents, irregular terrain, or even just for variety.
Ok, so in 2019 I met a German woman just outside of Leon. I was actually walking by when I overheard the following, "and one breast was bigger than the other." It caught my attention.I'm with Rick. One stick. Buen Camino
When I switched from one conventional pole (right hand) to two PacerPoles the first thing I realised was that I had a tendency to lean to my left as I walked, the two poles helped straighten out my gait (so I'm told).Ok, so in 2019 I met a German woman just outside of Leon. I was actually walking by when I overheard the following, "and one breast was bigger than the other." It caught my attention.
Later when we connected I asked her about it. She was not shy.
Apparently in a walk previous, from SJPdP to Leon, she had been using one stick constantly, but she hurt her foot and had to stop. She had always walked with the one stick on the SAME side. She returned home and looked in the mirror to discover that one breast was now significantly different than the other. She said it took 2 years for her situation to normalize.
Now obviously I cannot relate, as I always walk with 2 sticks, um, and I'm male. I have no idea if this is a thing... but she seemed adamant about never walking with 1 stick again.
Your mileage may vary.
Depends on what the purpose of the trekking poles, or single staff may be.I'm with Rick. One stick. Buen Camino
Good point!Nobody cross country skis with one pole that I know of.
I haven't seen this, or done this, with poles but I do know that when I had messed up my knees skiing years ago, going downhill really hurt so I would change from going forward to backward to zig zag because each of those would be ok for a short time, but then start hurting--so changing to the other helped for a little while.Always amazed at the people who walk backwards down hills in a zig zag ....and they generally use walking poles. Why? Does not look like fun.
Here is a one-minute youtube video about Nordic Walking which shows why approx 90 degrees works well, and a demo showing the effect on the body if the poles are either too short or too long.I know the subject of 'walking sticks' has been covered innumerable number of times but I have never seen a certain aspect of these aids discussed: How long to make adjustable poles relative to your height. I just completed the Frances in late May and had several comments that my poles were adjusted too short, including from my walking partner.
Other hikers claim that the poles are at an optimal length when you are standing still, holding the poles next to you with your elbows are bent at a 90 degree angle, forearms parallel to the ground.
I've found the optimal height to be about 45-50 degrees, turning the poles, in a sense, into another set of legs and hips that can drive you forward as you walk. The poles, at 90 degrees, are 'weak' for this purpose. It's comparable to the strength one has pedaling a bicycle when a leg is at the top of the stroke. If you are cycling and each leg reaches that 90 degree angle putting your upper leg parallel to the ground, you need to raise your seat!! At 90 degree angle from the body sticks offers a walker balance but little else.
I don't have any problems with balance. What I do need, at age 71, is a meaningful amount of weight taken off feet, ankles, knees as I walk. When I walk on flat ground i generally carry the poles. When I walk uphill the poles drive me up that hill. When I walk downhill the shorter poles can be used to 'push back' on me to slow my descent.
Any thoughts out there besides 'do what works for you' : ).
Just to be clear — I think Nordic Walking is a very different kettle of fish than what the average pilgrim does on the Camino. I have a friend who practices nordic walking, and she has explained to me that it engages the body and its musculo-skeletal system in very diffferent ways than “regular” walking with hiking poles. That may not affect the proper height for poles, but the rest of the enterprise is very different. Please correct me if I’m wrong, because I have no first hand experience with nordic walking.Here is a one-minute youtube video about Nordic Walking
The REI info is great, though I think their suggestion of shorting/lengthening poles by 5-10cm for steep inclines or declines is probably overkill at least on the CF. The grades don’t really justify more than 2-4cm IMO.There are a bunch of videos on Youtube regarding this subject.
Also here is a story from REI regarding the use of hiking poles that may be of use.
How to Choose and Use Trekking Poles and Hiking Staffs | REI Co-op
When shopping for trekking poles, your key considerations should be weight, price, shock absorption, shaft construction and the type of grip. Here's how to choose.www.rei.com
Having some background knowledge may be a good jumping off point.
I think you are correct. Nordic walking techniques don't seem to me to be particularly relevant to walking the Camino.Just to be clear — I think Nordic Walking is a very different kettle of fish than what the average pilgrim does on the Camino. I have a friend who practices nordic walking, and she has explained to me that it engages the body and its musculo-skeletal system in very diffferent ways than “regular” walking with hiking poles. That may not affect the proper height for poles, but the rest of the enterprise is very different. Please correct me if I’m wrong, because I have no first hand experience with nordic walking.
I’m curious why you say that, @dougfitz. My admittedly basic/simplistic understanding is that it’s a great way to enhance the cardio workout and work the upper body more. I think it would be hard to sustain over a whole day of walking.Nordic walking techniques seem to me to be particularly relevant to walking the Camino.
90 degree angle at the elbow when standing still on the flat.
Same with me...I agree with Henry.I can’t be bothered.
I agree, but I think the difference is mainly in degree. The video that you posted said at the start "Nordic walking amplifies normal walking." When I look at those videos, I see the pole technique and rhythm that I try to use, but my stride is shorter and I do not "amplify" my normal walk. I try to conserve energy rather than expend it!I think Nordic Walking is a very different kettle of fish than what the average pilgrim does on the Camino... That may not affect the proper height for poles
One of the many reasons that I use poles when I'm on the Camino is to keep my arms toned. I'm generally not inclined to do push-ups or other arm exercises after a day walking on the Camino - I prefer to work them out while I'm walking.Regardless of the other reasons poles make sense (less joint trouble, etc.) I love the Nordic style for the following reason: Upper body workout! If you are at all tempted to walk the Camino to get in better shape I can attest to greater arm/chest strength (and muscles) after the walk.
I exercise twice a week with friends and we have been doing it consistently for over twelve years. The Camino is a break from all the routine at home for me...we are all different.Regardless of the other reasons poles make sense (less joint trouble, etc.) I love the Nordic style for the following reason: Upper body workout! If you are at all tempted to walk the Camino to get in better shape I can attest to greater arm/chest strength (and muscles) after the walk.
Um, I enjoy myself immensely, hence my Camino habit! Like everything else on the Camino, however, there is certainly more than one way to skin a cat (or walk 500 miles).I go on Camino to enjoy myself. I don't care to learn Nordic walking.
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Challenge acceptedDepends on what the purpose of the trekking poles, or single staff may be.
A lot of pilgrims walk with a single, tall staff. They don't use them in the same manner as a set of trekking poles would be used (if used properly). The tall staff isn't so much swinging in rhythm with the legs as the trekking poles are. Trekking poles in some ways mimic ski poles in cross country skiing. Nobody cross country skis with one pole that I know of.
Like I said, for optimum efficiency they should swing in sync with one's legs. As they say, it don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing.
But I am virtually certain that your stride and your poles do not look like this. If the woman in this picture had her pole planted perpendicular to the ground, her elbow would have something closer to a 45% angle. I know this is not a big deal, but I attended my friend’s nordic walking class in Madrid once (as a spectator) because I had pooh-poohed the whole thing. What I learned is that my walking with hiking poles bears no resemblance to nordic walking. I use the poles like what others have described — a 90 degree angle at my elbow with the stick going straight down, with shortening and lengthening for ascents and descents. Avid nordic walkers get very prickly about the proper technique and I learned my lesson.When I look at those videos, I see the pole technique and rhythm that I try to use, but my stride is shorter and I do not "amplify" my normal walk.
Ditto.Regardless of the other reasons poles make sense (less joint trouble, etc.) I love the Nordic style for the following reason: Upper body workout! If you are at all tempted to walk the Camino to get in better shape I can attest to greater arm/chest strength (and muscles) after the walk.
Dougfix, I wonder if there is a typo here, and that you meant 'irrelevant' or 'do not seem to me to be particularly relevant'. TomI think you are correct. Nordic walking techniques seem to me to be particularly relevant to walking the Camino.
Not true. They can't be taken into the cabin as carry-on, but they definitely can go as checked baggage. In fact, if you are otherwise going carry-on only, every airline at the Santiago airport will check your poles for free. This is specific to the Santiago airport only.Yes, another hiking pole question... I understand that one cannot check poles on flights out of Santiago
Well spotted. Thank you, and I have edited the earlier post.Dougfix, I wonder if there is a typo here, and that you meant 'irrelevant' or 'do not seem to me to be particularly relevant'. Tom
These benefits are available for all pole users. They are not unique to nordic walking. I know some nordic walking advocates claim this style has greater benefits, which may be true for short, more intense sessions, but will still accrue if you are using the poles properly and putting even a modicum of effort into taking some pressure off your lower joints.I love the Nordic style for the following reason: Upper body workout! If you are at all tempted to walk the Camino to get in better shape I can attest to greater arm/chest strength (and muscles) after the walk.
I didn't mean it!! The post has been edited. It took me a little while because I was flying back home from NZ this morning, and didn't see your and @Tom Hagger's posts until much later. My apologies for any confusion that I have created.I’m curious why you say that, @dougfitz. My admittedly basic/simplistic understanding is that it’s a great way to enhance the cardio workout and work the upper body more. I think it would be hard to sustain over a whole day of walking.
Yes. Poles would not be allowed in the cabin. I was referring to transporting them as checked baggage. Are you saying that Santiago allows them to be checked “naked?”Not true. They can't be taken into the cabin as carry-on, but they definitely can go as checked baggage. In fact, if you are otherwise going carry-on only, every airline at the Santiago airport will check your poles for free. This is specific to the Santiago airport only.
No, I believe that they need to be wrapped up, or in some kind of container.Yes. Poles would not be allowed in the cabin. I was referring to transporting them as checked baggage. Are you saying that Santiago allows them to be checked “naked?”
Did you mean that you understand that they can't be carried on the plane??I understand that one cannot check poles on flights out of Santiago
Sorry for the confusion. I was asking how to transport poles as checked baggage from Santiago. I have access to mailing tubes and such at home but plan to dispose of those in Paris. I’m wondering how folks enclose their poles in an acceptable manner so as to be able to transport them home from Santiago.No, I believe that they need to be wrapped up, or in some kind of container.
You said
Did you mean that you understand that they can't be carried on the plane??
I'm not sure this and any answer would be considered off-topic, and possibly moved, but for my part, they get strapped to the back with the pack harness. These days, I use a secondary carry pack for my backpack that encloses the pack and can also carry some other items. Before that, I would use gaffer tape or duck tape to secure the poles to the harness.Sorry for the confusion. I was asking how to transport poles as checked baggage from Santiago. I have access to mailing tubes and such at home but plan to dispose of those in Paris. I’m wondering how folks enclose their poles in an acceptable manner so as to be able to transport them home from Santiago.
When I walked the Ingles last year there was group of about 20 Nordic walkers from Sevilla.I think you are correct. Nordic walking techniques don't seem to me to be particularly relevant to walking the Camino.
Edited!!
@Bill's_Walking, interesting. I wonder whether they were consistently applying the full range of nordic walking techniques. I sometimes see nordic walking groups locally, and once they are away from smooth parkland and urban paths, they adapt their style and abandon the pushing out and speeding up they practice on smoother surfaces.When I walked the Ingles last year there was group of about 20 Nordic walkers from Sevilla.
That I couldn't tell you. They cruised by so fast on the flat sections in the mornings, that I would only catchup to them at lunch or the end of the day!@Bill's_Walking, interesting. I wonder whether they were consistently applying the full range of nordic walking techniques. I sometimes see nordic walking groups locally, and once they are away from smooth parkland and urban paths, they adapt their style and abandon the pushing out and speeding up they practice on smoother surfaces.
It sounds like they might have been walking at least some part of the day using nordic walking. A great effort, in my view if they were.That I couldn't tell you. They cruised by so fast on the flat sections in the mornings, that I would only catchup to them at lunch or the end of the day!
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