Michelle Menhennet
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Plan to walk around 2022
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If the bite is serious, call 911
I know remaining quiet doesn’t feel right, your instincts are to get the heck outta there... but you have to remember a dog is also aggressive when fearful. If you start yelling and flailing about, you will frighten them more. Be a Tree and wait. Stay calm. Eventually the dogs will also calm down, allowing you to slowly back away.
For those who don't trust above messages, a "dog chaser" seems to keep any dog at bay. Can be found at hunters' stores in the larger towns.
The only time I encountered an unchained aggressive dog on the CF was in O Cebreiro itself! A couple of other times I was very relieved that a fence or strong chain prevented an attack. Maybe picking-up a rock, real or imaginary, will be a tactic I will employ if threatened again. Although, I'm not sure how the locals in Cebreiro would react to me publicly stoning their animals in the main street(!)I have walked the Camino Frances five and a half times. I have never encountered an unchained aggressive dog on it. They are so bored by pilgrims they can barely raise their heads as you pass.
If you go "off piste" or take a really uncommon alternative, like the Dragonte to O Cebreiro, you might encounter a troublesome dog. But on the standard route? Unlikely.
After being seriously attacked by three dogs at the same time (during a training walk in the hills) I promised myself: "this will never happen to me again". Bought one of these (http://www.dazer2.com/) and unfortunately had to use it twice during a later training walk.
Simple and short verdict: WORKS!!
I have it now prmanently clipped on a belt from my backpack at easy reach.
I ALWAYS carry one, and have used it twice. And, yes, it worked. My advice to "RVV" is - make sure the battery's replaced from time to time. I also use my walking pole to deter any approaching wild dogs - straight into the face if necessary.After being seriously attacked by three dogs at the same time (during a training walk in the hills) I promised myself: "this will never happen to me again". Bought one of these (http://www.dazer2.com/) and unfortunately had to use it twice during a later training walk.
Simple and short verdict: WORKS!! I have it now prmanently clipped on a belt from my backpack at easy reach.
Dogs were here long before perigrinos leave them aloneI’ve seen threads on this topic buried in miscellaneous threads, but I think it’s worth having a stand alone thread in Personal Safety. Lots of people run into dogs on the Camino who are fiercely protecting territory or livestock and some even bitten. The best way to deal with them can be a bit counterintuitive. Here’s some great advice from a wise vet:
WHAT TO DO IF THREATENED BY AN AGGRESSIVE DOG: BE A TREE!
1) Remain calm and still. Don't run. This is a race you will not win. If you are alone, back away slowly. Do not turn your back.
2) If you are on the ground, curl into a fetal position, cover your head with your arms, and keep your fingers curled in a fist.
3) Avoid eye contact. Remember, staring an aggressive dog in the eyes is a challenge.
4) Do not smile at the dog
5) Use a soft, soothing tone of voice. Loud, angry-sounding words and screaming only spur on the dog.
6) If he bites you, DO NOT PULL AWAY. This only spurs the dog on. Remain calm. Try to put something between you and the dog like your purse, jacket, bicycle, backpack, etc. Don't hit the dog. Again, just makes the situation worse.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET BITTEN
1) If the bite is serious, call 911.
2) Wash the bite wound thoroughly with soap and water. If the wound is deep, painful, discolored, or swollen, contact your medical professional.
3) If possible, confirm the dog's rabies vaccination status.
4) Report the bite to your local authorities and veterinarian.
So I'd like to offer some advice. I have a Spanish mastiff and a German Shepherd. I've spent two years (2013-2015) working in Cairo with my Shepherd and training dogs for chemical trace detection.
Some of the advice here is correct and other advice is going to make things worse. The point that needs to be made clear firstly is what breed you are dealing with. The Spanish mastiff is the most likely breed that will come charging towards you out in the open, as already mentioned they a commonly used in the north of Spain as livestock guardians. When you are dealing with a mastiff that is coming towards you should carry on walking slowly and pay him no attention, don't look at him and don't talk to him. Generally the Spanish mastiff will put on a big show of barking until you move away then go back to his herd. However if he blocks your path or comes close to you then you must stand still, do not look at him and just remain calm and quiet. He is deciding whether or not you are a threat. The mastiff will not bite you unless you act aggressively. It is important to understand that the mastiff is pretty much fearless and if your to be stupid enough to throw rocks at him or shout then you are making him think you are a threat. When I go into a town for supplies I often leave Puppy (my Spanish mastiff) to guard the donkey and my camp. I rarely camp where people will pass by but occasionally hunters or walkers do. Puppy will make a big show of barking whilst keeping his distance and allow passage so long as they keep away from the tent. Mastiff's think situations through thoroughly and won't attack without good reason. NEVER show aggression or shout at a mastiff, he will not back down and will show even more aggression in response. In the mountains they rely on the ferocity of their barking as a first defense to deter wolves from the herd. However if the wolf does not leave then the mastiff will charge and commit to chasing away or killing the wolf.
BUT... If you are not dealing with a mastiff then what is the best option. Again it will depend on the situation, in 99% of case's a dog will not bite you unless you give it a reason. The best way to avoid any problems is quite simply to stay still, don't acknowledge the dog and wait for him to leave. If you are not scared then don't bother standing still, just calmly continue on your way. Medium to small breeds with the exception of pitbull breeds can usually be scared away with loud shouting and aggressive movements but you are unlikely to be troubled by smaller dogs anyway. Chances are your cameo will be trouble free as farmers wouldn't put mastiffs in fields with public access for obvious reasons. Once again I stress the importance of remaining still and calm. Screaming or hysterical behavior will just excite the dog more and give it reason to consider you as a threat.
Think how you would react if someone knocked on your front door and starts shouting at you whilst waving a big stick around. View attachment 41238
My defense with loose and aggresive dogs have always worked thus far. They seem to understand the tone, not necessarily the language, of command. So, I very firmly give a command of 'No', 'Go home', or some such command. A strong, firm, and commanding tone has been the key for me.Last year as I was walking alone on a Sunday morning between Dumbria and Muxia there was a German Shepherd behind a fence that was barking aggressively. I wasn't too worried, because it was behind a fence. Then I saw the dog jump over a fence of the same height into an adjoining yard. I still continued walking. The dog then jumped over another fence into another yard that wasn't completely fenced in. There was only a chain across a driveway. At this point I was worried! And with good reason, because the dog then started across the street barking and snarling at me. I stood still, raised my poles and shouted NO! Fortunately, the dog stopped, then turned around and retreated to its yard. Since it was a Sunday morning, there were no people out and about, and I wasn't sure how far behind me the pilgrims that I had seen at a bar that I had passed were. I briefly considered walking back so that I could find others to walk with, but the rest of my walk that day was pretty uneventful.
I LOVED this! Learn a little "Doggie Spanish". I know that some writers have written of "numerous" aggressive dogs on the Camino, but all of the (HUGE) farm dogs we've seen have been amazingly calm and passive. We don't try to pet them or anything like that. In fact, we looked at them with a little envy since our dogs have never been that well behaved.One point that I did not see made above, if you use walking sticks / poles, or a staff, RAISE / LIFT IT (them) OFF THE GROUND so it (they) does not make contact. STOP waving the poles. Put them / it over a shoulder or hand carry until you are well past the agitated dog.
With all due respect to 'mi amigos españoles,' please allow me to explain. In Spain, many dogs, especially out in the country, on farms or around country homes, are not raised as household pets. They are considered domesticated animals, just like all the other farm animals. Typically, they are not chipped, do not have collars or tags, and are not kept groomed like a regular household pet, and live outside or in outbuildings away from the house. They are 'working dogs.' Their role is to protect the livestock, repel unwanted pests and visitors, and to provide early warning of same to the owner. Not all owners treat their animals like this, but out in the country likely most do.
The reason for this admonition regarding using any stick or pole near a dog is that, when these dogs are young, they are too frequently trained to behave through use of a cane to whack them into submission. Hence, they regard the swinging cane as a direct and painful threat, one that has been used on them in the past.
Clearly, they do not like it. It agitates them. This is understandable. They are conditioned to fear the stick. The swinging of hiking poles or a staff just sets them off. So, do not do this.
As soon as you see a dog up ahead, hoist the pole quietly and silently walk by. I also like to talk calmly to the dog in my best Spanish, telling them that they are a "usted es un perro muy bueno," (you are a good dog); "be calm" (tranquilo...); "be silent" (silencio) or if they start to follow me..."va a la casa" (GO HOME)!
The combination of speaking calmly and softely and NOT using the poles in their eyesight works for me every time.
Of course, as above, if a dog is NOT deterred and actually charges you, well, that is one of the secondary uses for your poles...not to hurt the dog, but to fend it off.
I hope this helps.
Just because you've never had a bad encounter with a dog doesn't mean that it doesn't happen!Hmmm....
I have never had a bad encounter with a dog in the Camino. Never had one snarl or act aggressive to me in any way. In fact my encounters have only involved playing with dogs on the Camino, including a mastiff.
Future pilgrims reading this thread, don't be concerned about dogs on the Camino.
Have you actually tried this Michelle?
Part of me senses that there is a stage to 'up the ante' and be aggressive back. Firm eye contact, firm voice etc. Staying submissive doesn't feel right.
And Yes I'm a dog owner.
I think this is an area where 'Expert' advice is really required. As there are so many 'views and opinions' on the topic...........
Make yourself big. Dogs have a pecking order and will only attack the top dog if they feel he or she is weak. They will however, attack the weaker dogs. Be the top dog. Current top dog in my home is the smallest female. if she can pull it off, so can you. Dog trainer taught us to kick an aggressive dog in the balls with a boot if necessay and run. Never tried it, but a dog's belly below the rib cage is soft and vulnerable.
The advice to check the dog's rabies status is probably American (as is calling 911) if you have been bitten by any animal, or have a wound that has been in contact with the soil you should check YOUR OWN Tetanus vaccination ASAP and update it if necessary.
The original author, thank you Google, is Debby Turner Bell, veterinarian turned Miss America turned motivational speaker. She seems more of a PR and TV person than a hands-on dog trainer or someone with local knowledge of the caminos in Spain and Portugal.
A very interesting post and thread, but slightly confusing nonetheless. It reminds me of a time when I visited the Canadian Rockies + read an information board about the wildlife in the Jasper/Banff national park area, including what to do it confronted by a black or a brown bear. Basically, it stated that if faced by a black bear one should stand still and effectively play dead, whereas when faced with a brown bear the advice was to more-or-less run for your life. The advice seemed very clear and unambiguous until an extra line underneath delivered the devastating proviso that it is not always easy to spot the difference between a black and a brown bear!!!
I
(n.b. I may have mixed-up the survival strategies when faced with the two types of bears, but the basic message is clear - go with your instincts!)
I have walked the Camino Frances five and a half times. I have never encountered an unchained aggressive dog on it. They are so bored by pilgrims they can barely raise their heads as you pass.
If you go "off piste" or take a really uncommon alternative, like the Dragonte to O Cebreiro, you might encounter a troublesome dog. But on the standard route? Unlikely.
As an owner of a small, sweet, yorkie who never barks... I am a little anxious about running into big loose dogs. Aside from the dogs, I've seen pictures of horses roaming around on the trails too. Do they go about their business and not mind the pilgrims?
No need to be anxious. I have yet to see any animal on the Camino interact negatively with a pilgrim.As an owner of a small, sweet, yorkie who never barks... I am a little anxious about running into big loose dogs. Aside from the dogs, I've seen pictures of horses roaming around on the trails too. Do they go about their business and not mind the pilgrims?
If you mean the horses you meet on the Pyrenees , they were very chill, vaguely interested in us, but not really.As an owner of a small, sweet, yorkie who never barks... I am a little anxious about running into big loose dogs. Aside from the dogs, I've seen pictures of horses roaming around on the trails too. Do they go about their business and not mind the pilgrims?
What did he do? And how did you handle the situation? How did you manage to pass by and go through your way?My advise...since most dogs will attack from the rear...look the dog in the eye...keep moving away slowly backwards...and if that does not work...carry a small knife...only once on the Camino between Finisterre and Muxia did I almost have to use the knife...it was a large farm dog thought it owned the road between the house and the barn on opposite sides of the road.
And would you mind sharing what your approach is so we can use it too if necessary?These 'extra' dog repellent devices are nice and all, but they have a weight penalty. My approach weighs nothing and does work. But, to each their own...
Thanks! Yeah! Sorry to bother :/Refer to my previous post, at #13 in the thread above. All posts have a sequential number off to the right of the top line. This should be post #50.
My previous is at #13. I explain my method at more length there.
Hope this helps.
What did he do? And how did you handle the situation? How did you manage to pass by and go through your way?
I walked the France without seeing many aggressive dogs and when I completed I walked the Portuguese Coastal route from Porto and in Northern Portugal aggressive barking dogs where more common. One of them came at me but I adopted the raised walking stick approach roaring back at top of my voice standing tall demonstrating pack leader. The dog made an attempt to bite at my ankle and soon after the walking stick swished past narrowly missing said dogs head. Its owner appeared on the scene and the dog retreated. These dogs should be kept on leads when outside their territory due to the increase in Pilgrim numbers and authorities ought to be penalising irresponsible owner's. Incidentally I had only come across the walking stick before the incident, rescued from a hedgerow, another example of the Camino provides protection. Buen Camino @StephenNichollsI ALWAYS carry one, and have used it twice. And, yes, it worked. My advice to "RVV" is - make sure the battery's replaced from time to time. I also use my walking pole to deter any approaching wild dogs - straight into the face if necessary.
There may be few dangerous dogs on the CF - but I have encountered many on the more remote caminos, and there are also packs of wild dogs. We had these packs coming in the garden when we lived in Spain.
Having said all that, I'm still starting to plan my last camino - Portuguese Coastal - for April/May 2019!
Buen camino - sin perros!
Ok then, I'll avoid doing that route like the plague! Thanks for sharing.I got lost between Finisterre and Muxia so I was pushing my mountain bike uphill on a paved road that went through a large farm...on my left there was a large metal barn for tractor equipment and outside there was a farmer working on his tractor and a farm dog (40+ lbs) watching him...as I passed on the road the farm dog noticed me but was not interested...further down after passing the barn the farmer threw a tool and started yelling and when I looked back the farm dog was approaching low and fast behind me...I reversed my bike between the farm dog and myself and started yelling to the farmer...eventually the farm dog went back to the barn...then I walked up the road another 100 yards and the farm dog was approaching low and fast behind me again...so again I reversed my bike between the farm dog and myself and started yelling to the farmer...and eventually the farm dog went back to the barn again...finally I walked up the road another 100 yards and the farm dog was approaching low and fast behind me...but this time very determined...however I was not able to get the bike between the farm dog and myself...so I started yelling to the farmer and grabbed the knife while circling in an opposing manner around my bike that was now thrown down in the middle of the road...apparently the farmer had a cellphone...because he must have called the farmhouse down the road...and his wife came out the front door and called the farm dog for dinner...if it had not been for the farmer his farm dog would have bit me from behind before I knew it...just luck.
In Spain or Europe call 112I’ve seen threads on this topic buried in miscellaneous threads, but I think it’s worth having a stand alone thread in Personal Safety. Lots of people run into dogs on the Camino who are fiercely protecting territory or livestock and some even bitten. The best way to deal with them can be a bit counterintuitive. Here’s some great advice from a wise vet:
WHAT TO DO IF THREATENED BY AN AGGRESSIVE DOG: BE A TREE!
1) Remain calm and still. Don't run. This is a race you will not win. If you are alone, back away slowly. Do not turn your back.
2) If you are on the ground, curl into a fetal position, cover your head with your arms, and keep your fingers curled in a fist.
3) Avoid eye contact. Remember, staring an aggressive dog in the eyes is a challenge.
4) Do not smile at the dog
5) Use a soft, soothing tone of voice. Loud, angry-sounding words and screaming only spur on the dog.
6) If he bites you, DO NOT PULL AWAY. This only spurs the dog on. Remain calm. Try to put something between you and the dog like your purse, jacket, bicycle, backpack, etc. Don't hit the dog. Again, just makes the situation worse.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET BITTEN
1) If the bite is serious, call 911.
2) Wash the bite wound thoroughly with soap and water. If the wound is deep, painful, discolored, or swollen, contact your medical professional.
3) If possible, confirm the dog's rabies vaccination status.
4) Report the bite to your local authorities and veterinarian.
@Gabe_Way you might note that avoiding that route is the action that might cause the problem. @Kurt5280 wasnt on the route, he was “lost”
Ok, that makes sense.My advice...stay near the coast between Finisterre and Muxia...the people that live near the coast are use to both tourists and Pilgrims...so you should not have any loose farm dog problems...it worked for me on my second Camino.
This is a very complex topic. Hoping we have more experts to teach us. Dogs will attack for any one of three reasons; fear, defending property, (or protect Master, or other dog in pack), or hunger. I know pepper (table variety), works, if the dog(s) can be kept at bay till it can be blown their way, but hoping there are better methods, like tossing some pieces of sausage or something?
First thought is to back away, as mentioned but back to a wall or any other object that can protect your back. From there, it is front and sides to defend. Remaining quiet is something that does not feel right. HELP!!!
I really wish I would have read this before my dog encounter. It’s hard not to look at a dog that is barking and snarling at you. It was the point that I turned my back to keep walking that the dog went after me. Once on the ground, it stared at me. Then, instinctively I got up slowly and back away. Luckily there was a gate at end of bridge to separate us.I’ve seen threads on this topic buried in miscellaneous threads, but I think it’s worth having a stand alone thread in Personal Safety. Lots of people run into dogs on the Camino who are fiercely protecting territory or livestock and some even bitten. The best way to deal with them can be a bit counterintuitive. Here’s some great advice from a wise vet:
WHAT TO DO IF THREATENED BY AN AGGRESSIVE DOG: BE A TREE!
1) Remain calm and still. Don't run. This is a race you will not win. If you are alone, back away slowly. Do not turn your back.
2) If you are on the ground, curl into a fetal position, cover your head with your arms, and keep your fingers curled in a fist.
3) Avoid eye contact. Remember, staring an aggressive dog in the eyes is a challenge.
4) Do not smile at the dog
5) Use a soft, soothing tone of voice. Loud, angry-sounding words and screaming only spur on the dog.
6) If he bites you, DO NOT PULL AWAY. This only spurs the dog on. Remain calm. Try to put something between you and the dog like your purse, jacket, bicycle, backpack, etc. Don't hit the dog. Again, just makes the situation worse.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET BITTEN
1) If the bite is serious, call 911.
2) Wash the bite wound thoroughly with soap and water. If the wound is deep, painful, discolored, or swollen, contact your medical professional.
3) If possible, confirm the dog's rabies vaccination status.
4) Report the bite to your local authorities and veterinarian.
This is not rocket science. Most trekkers use poles. Use them on any aggressive dog coming within reach of the poles. Carbide tips are particularly effective. Don’t hesitate to poke holes in threatening dogs. If you would rather be a canine chew toy, that’s your choice. More than once in France I’ve save my skin from packs of dogs this way.I’ve seen threads on this topic buried in miscellaneous threads, but I think it’s worth having a stand alone thread in Personal Safety. Lots of people run into dogs on the Camino who are fiercely protecting territory or livestock and some even bitten. The best way to deal with them can be a bit counterintuitive. Here’s some great advice from a wise vet:
WHAT TO DO IF THREATENED BY AN AGGRESSIVE DOG: BE A TREE!
1) Remain calm and still. Don't run. This is a race you will not win. If you are alone, back away slowly. Do not turn your back.
2) If you are on the ground, curl into a fetal position, cover your head with your arms, and keep your fingers curled in a fist.
3) Avoid eye contact. Remember, staring an aggressive dog in the eyes is a challenge.
4) Do not smile at the dog
5) Use a soft, soothing tone of voice. Loud, angry-sounding words and screaming only spur on the dog.
6) If he bites you, DO NOT PULL AWAY. This only spurs the dog on. Remain calm. Try to put something between you and the dog like your purse, jacket, bicycle, backpack, etc. Don't hit the dog. Again, just makes the situation worse.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET BITTEN
1) If the bite is serious, call 911.
2) Wash the bite wound thoroughly with soap and water. If the wound is deep, painful, discolored, or swollen, contact your medical professional.
3) If possible, confirm the dog's rabies vaccination status.
4) Report the bite to your local authorities and veterinarian.
Exactly. Why would anyone allow themselves to be victimized and injured by a dog? Last time I checked we humans domesticated them. We're supposed to be the alphas.This is not rocket science. Most trekkers use poles. Use them on any aggressive dog coming within reach of the poles. Carbide tips are particularly effective. Don’t hesitate to poke holes in threatening dogs. If you would rather be a canine chew toy, that’s your choice. More than once in France I’ve save my skin from packs of dogs this way.
No one wants to be bitten by a dog.This is not rocket science. Most trekkers use poles. Use them on any aggressive dog coming within reach of the poles. Carbide tips are particularly effective. Don’t hesitate to poke holes in threatening dogs. If you would rather be a canine chew toy, that’s your choice. More than once in France I’ve save my skin from packs of dogs this way.
My own response has been similar, picking up rocks and aggressively preparing to throw them. It worked with the dogs on whom I tried it. However, a wrong turn several years ago led to a farmhouse guarded by a german shepherd, which immediately charged at me wrathfully at full pelt. I was preparing for a very nasty encounter when suddenly it reached the end of its chain, and was precipitously up-ended, much like that dog in the old Bugs Bunny cartoon. I can make jokes about it now but if not for that chain no amount of poles or rocks was going to save me from injury.Exactly. Why would anyone allow themselves to be victimized and inured by a dog? Last time I checked we humans domesticated them. We're supposed to be the alphas.
I have owed a lot of dogs in my life, including large ones. No way would I have tolerated one of my dogs biting or attacking innocent people. I would sooner euthanize one of my dogs myself than risk it biting someone minding their own business. Mind you, I am not advocating cruelty, real cruelty, to an animal.
I say if possible take an aggressive stance back at the dog. Trekking poles, staffs, sticks, rocks, bricks, whatever. If you injure the dog, oh well. You were simply defending yourself. I would not even report it or stick around. Move on. If local authorities need to speak with you, they will find you, but I have the feeling that an injured aggressive local dog is not high on their priority list.
Yes, no doubt some of the larger, more powerful dogs would be tough to defend oneself against, but no way am I going gently into that good night of canine teeth and snarling and barking, lol. I am going to do something.My own response has been similar, picking up rocks and aggressively preparing to throw them. It worked with the dogs on whom I tried it. However, a wrong turn several years ago led to a farmhouse guarded by a german shepherd, which immediately charged at me wrathfully at full pelt. I was preparing for a very nasty encounter when suddenly it reached the end of its chain, and was precipitously up-ended, much like that dog in the old Bugs Bunny cartoon. I can make jokes about it now but if not for that chain no amount of poles or rocks was going to save me from injury.
Even better, get down to his face level, stare him right in the eye, and growl aggressively.I say if possible take an aggressive stance back at the dog.
Even better, get down to his face level, stare him right in the eye, and growl aggressively.
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