MileHighPair
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Many, many Caminos, mostly past maybe some future.
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I have thought about those kinds of errors, but unless we think that the reporting errors favor one camino over another, all caminos have some of that going on, so it should all even out in the end, no?I think that the statistics may not represent the number of walkers so well. Last year, I walked from Seville to Astorga, where I stopped. Next year I might resume my walk from Madrid and walk through Sahagun and Astorga. What will I choose as my starting point on my credential - Seville or Madrid? Do I want to augment the stats for VDLP or for Camino de Madrid?
Many people on the VDLP make combination trips or walk portions that don't always end in Santiago. These would not be reflected in the statistics.
Good points, nyc. When I first walked the Norte in 2007, that was the story there as well. Albergues few and far between, but the existing tourist infrastructure was there to allow people to walk shorter distances. Now there are albergues popping up all over, so that is no longer a problem. The Vdlp doesn't have those touristy towns, so a jump start will be much more difficult, but all it would take is a few more albergues strategically placed in some of the more lonely long distances! But of course, why would someone take a risk on opening an albergue till the pilgrim traffic is there -- that darn chicken and egg problem again! But the weather problem cannot be "solved," there is nothing that can make walking the Vdlp in July a fun thing to do. Buen camio, LaurieI want to walk VdP on next camino. But, I love summer walking yet every site says walking in summer is suicidal. Summer is a time many folks are on vacation: school, work, other. If I walk in spring or fall more people, but.... Alas, my days of 30-40 treks may be over. In 2014, I was 52 walked CF in winter, walked 30 kilometer plus days now and again without problems. Three years later, with a chronic illness diagnosis, 30-40 days may not be possible. Every VdP guidebook, website, or forum post emphasize need to walk those distances for lodging from time to time. Lastly, solitude on that route, pilgrims, and infrastructure unlike CF is known to prevail: reason to walk a year or two ago. Now, not so much. Some of these points may continue to keep others from this trek. I have four Compostelas so I know camino provides, but walking VdP: I just do not know.
True, but it would probably favour the shorter stretches that actually end in Santiago.I have thought about those kinds of errors, but unless we think that the reporting errors favor one camino over another, all caminos have some of that going on, so it should all even out in the end, no?
Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.If my math is correct, these are the numbers through July for the VdlP (from the Pilgrim Office):
2016 = 5424
2017 = 5430
Six more pilgrims in 7 months! This, while the Portugues route increased by thousands!
If everyone was required to walk from Seville, I could see why most people would be reluctant to tackle 1000 km. But since the vast majority of these 5400 folks walked a much shorter Camino, and the fact that the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain, this really puzzles me.
I hope this is not interpreted as critical of anyone else's choices. It is only meant as a curiosity. Any thoughts?
I think we should make a pact to keep up the stories about how long, hot and lonely this route is to keep it this way... I've got in trouble for encouraging others to do it and saying it's not that hard...There must be something about these routes that I don't see that makes them unattractive to pilgrim hordes. Not that that's a bad thing, of course....
How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims?
The problem is that VDLP runs through ranches, using the via pecuarias, and that the distance from habited space to habited space, where one might be able to buy a parcel of land are few and far between, unlike on other routes where there are houses here and there, just not albergues. I say "problem" but it's rather a good thing so VDLP doens't turn into yet another zoo.Off topic maybe... and I'm not quite decided enough to open a new thread.
How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims? I ask as there will be people that are thinking of retiring to Spain and wanting to hold on to an international aspect to their lives. Opening an alberque must make for a relaxed yet diverting retirement.
How much money would be needed ? (yes we are considering our retirement options though Rome is my current favourite.)
We did find a marvellous working Roman Thema, tucked into a hamlet 14kms out of Merida and would have happily brought that and retired to Spain ourselves, but I would never have got out of the bath to let others in.
...indeed, statistics for both VdlP and Sanabres do not encourage running pilgrim albergues. The VdlP registered from January to July in 2013 "only" 5'104 pilgrims. This year, with 5'430 during the same period, the increase has been only 6% since 2013. Starters from Ourense were 1'780 in 2015 and 2'006 this year. The Camino de Invierno was "discovered" only a few years ago and the numbers are indeed very small: from 84 in 2015 to 327 this year.[...] taking care of pilgrims full-time is probably a great way to take a few years off the wrong end of your life!
Which day is this?Maybe even a campground to break up that awful 42 km day?
If the route from Ventequemada to Oliva de Placencia and/or to Hostal Asturias were to be waymarked with official signs, it would probably help with the perception. There could be recognized options so people could still decide whether to add the extra day, do the Arco or not, a 42-km day or not, and taxi pickup or not.
The problem day by the Embalse de Alcantara could be helped simply by identifying a pickup point with a little shelter, so people would have confidence in arranging a taxi from Cañaveral if they need it.
... but one of the longest days is around the Caparra Arch, .... but you have to walk 42 kms that day. ...
I just wanted to mention one business option I experienced on the Via de la Plata.Off topic maybe... and I'm not quite decided enough to open a new thread.
How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims? I ask as there will be people that are thinking of retiring to Spain and wanting to hold on to an international aspect to their lives. Opening an alberque must make for a relaxed yet diverting retirement.
How much money would be needed ? (yes we are considering our retirement options though Rome is my current favourite.)
Can I come too?If I win the lottery I'll put up two albergues in the long bits, then walk the VdP staying in my albergues along the way.
Can I come too?
I walked the VdlP in early April to mid-May a couple of years ago, which seemed a pretty good season to do it. Some hot, but not unbearable, days in Andalucia at the start, and a bit of cold and wet in Galicia but mostly shorts and polo shirt weather.Having walked some of the VDLP I am not surprised.
My main issues were the complete lack of other pilgrims, long distances between albergues and unspectacular landscapes. Some of the trails were seriously muddy too, like the worst clingy mud ever. There was also a lot of road walking.
Maybe in the future it will become popular, perhaps when there is better infrastructure.
If my math is correct, these are the numbers through July for the VdlP (from the Pilgrim Office):
2016 = 5424
2017 = 5430
Six more pilgrims in 7 months! This, while the Portugues route increased by thousands!
If everyone was required to walk from Seville, I could see why most people would be reluctant to tackle 1000 km. But since the vast majority of these 5400 folks walked a much shorter Camino, and the fact that the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain, this really puzzles me.
I hope this is not interpreted as critical of anyone else's choices. It is only meant as a curiosity. Any thoughts?
Apparently it is lovely in spring, but our farm commitment mean we do our northern hemisphere walks in Autumn, we found starting the vdp in September to be good weather wise, and would never advise doing it in July August, oddly rereading our blog I note I moan more about the rain and cold later on then the extreme heat in the early stages...VdlP (classic to Astorga because I've walked Sanabres already) is definitely on my to-do-list. But I have the impression that most people walk it in spring. What about autumn like starting mid September (OK, still quite high temps in the early stages but I'd say definitely more bearable than July/August) and finishing in mid October (hoping to be faster than Autumn Galicia rain season)???
Any thoughts or experiences?
I walked VdP from Seville to Salamanca March 2017 and there were ways to cut some of the stages shorter with use of taxi services to pick you up along a road and bring you back next morning to continue. While traveling alone, I did manage to link up with about 10 other pilgrims on the same path and felt in good company.I want to walk VdP on next camino. But, I love summer walking yet every site says walking in summer is suicidal. Summer is a time many folks are on vacation: school, work, other. If I walk in spring or fall more people, but.... Alas, my days of 30-40 treks may be over. In 2014, I was 52 walked CF in winter, walked 30 kilometer plus days now and again without problems. Three years later, with a chronic illness diagnosis, 30-40 days may not be possible. Every VdP guidebook, website, or forum post emphasize need to walk those distances for lodging from time to time. Solitude on that route, and infrastructure unlike CF is known to prevail. The reason to walk a year or two ago, now not so much. Some of these points may continue to keep others from this trek. I have four Compostelas so I know camino provides, but walking VdP: I just do not know.
Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.
Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.
I share those thoughts, however the relative poverty in parts of the VDLP compared to the other Caminos where pilgrimage brought more wealth and infrastructure bothered me. To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.I liked the Plata just as I found it in May/June 2014, and I'm very pleased to hear that it hasn't changed a whole lot. It was a beautiful, peaceful experience with flowers everywhere and the local population genuinely pleased to see a solo pilgrim. It was the best!! As others have suggested I think it's important that some of these less travelled routes remain more remote and less serviced for those who are looking for this type of long distance experience. Last year one of the walks I journeyed was the Portuguese from Coimbra. I respect that many folks love this route, but I found it much too busy in September and I was pleased to head north afterwards to walk the last 10 stages of the Le Puy GR65 into SJPDP in late October when it was extremely quiet. It helped me to regain my balance and to find my happy place before heading home for the winter. This year I walked a less travelled road once again, this time in Japan. While The 88 Temple walk was culturally unique it shared much with the more remote routes in Spain...the same, and yet so very different. Next spring I'll return to Europe to walk the Arles GR653...and who knows where I'll go from thereThat's half the fun!!
Again, what poverty?I share those thoughts, however the relative poverty in parts of the VDLP compared to the other Caminos where pilgrimage brought more wealth and infrastructure bothered me. To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.
The poverty that closes villages, with people losing their traditional homes and communal infrastructure, the poverty that makes farms scarcely viable especially after drought, the poverty of both individuals, villages, communities and regions in the areas of Spain which were mentioned in the articles I posted referring to and referencing Spanish rural poverty. Parts of the Via de la Plata passes through them.Again, what poverty?
It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live. Cirueña would be the extreme example. On the other hand, tourism is one of the major industries in the country, bringing "prosperity" to some regions while driving up prices so local people cannot live in these areas either.The poverty that closes villages, with people losing their traditional homes and communal infrastructure,
This interpretation of our comments bothers me a lot.To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.
It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live.
My 'focus' would be apparent because apart from the last leg of the Camino Frances ( which is a good example of tourism boosting a local or regional economy) the VDLP is all that I have walked. I gave no other opinion about anywhere else in Spain except to quote citation on the subject where it is stated that this has been a phenomenon in Spain since, and even before the Franco years.It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live. Cirueña would be the extreme example. On the other hand, tourism is one of the major industries in the country, bringing "prosperity" to some regions while driving up prices so local people cannot live in these areas either.
I don't deny that poverty exists in Spain or in the region where you walked. However, your continued focus on the VDLP as if it is different from other camino routes, is perhaps misleading and that is the main thing I am disagreeing with. The causes of poverty are very complex and the solutions go beyond our pilgrimages. That enters into the arena of political discussion.
This interpretation of our comments bothers me a lot.
and another deathAnd another pair in peril on VDLP as they walk in summer:
http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.co...escatados-por-golpe-de-calor-en-castilblanco/
Yes, I would deny that those posts were intended in that way. On an internet forum, we can quickly escalate to unpleasant discussions if we don't give the benefit of the doubt on many occasions. I really do expect that we have similar sympathies.can you deny that there were several comments wishing for the status quo of poverty if it meant the VDLP stayed 'undiscovered' for their enjoyment?
Yes, we do, I think.Yes, I would deny that those posts were intended in that way. On an internet forum, we can quickly escalate to unpleasant discussions if we don't give the benefit of the doubt on many occasions. I really do expect that we have similar sympathies.
In case someone thinks this is recent event, the death announcement was 29 days ago. Not to minimize it any way, just to be sure folks know the article is from early July.and another death
http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.com/muere-un-peregrino-aleman-en-almaden-de-la-plata/
I suppose many pilgrims only have European summer holidays available for their Camino, however is the first half of the Via de la Plata really a sensible choice? Is it ignorance or arrogance that pilgrims think that they would be immune to extreme heat, lack of shade and often adequate fluids?
Should there perhaps be a warning system for walking pilgrims with advisories at places where celos are given?
Don't they close some of the Pyrenees in bad weather in winter?
Thanks, I am not sure we discussed it then. It was just to put the recent events into perspective.In case someone thinks this is recent event, the death announcement was 29 days ago. Not to minimize it any way, just to be sure folks know the article is from early July.
It's not just in Spain that this sort of thing happens, I am constantly amazed by ill equiped overseas hikers strolling along some of NZ Great Walks, I think it's the name as these "walks" are mountain tracks where the weather and conditions can change dramaticly with deadly consequences. Is it our modern living that makes us more arrogant thinking that we have tamed our environment? Mother Nature can be beautiful and dangerous and should be respected at all times.I suppose many pilgrims only have European summer holidays available for their Camino, however is the first half of the Via de la Plata really a sensible choice? Is it ignorance or arrogance that pilgrims think that they would be immune to extreme heat, lack of shade and often adequate fluids?
Should there perhaps be a warning system for walking pilgrims with advisories at places where celos are given?
SO true!It's not just in Spain that this sort of thing happens, I am constantly amazed by ill equiped overseas hikers strolling along some of NZ Great Walks, I think it's the name as these "walks" are mountain tracks where the weather and conditions can change dramaticly with deadly consequences. Is it our modern living that makes us more arrogant thinking that we have tamed our environment? Mother Nature can be beautiful and dangerous and should be respected at all times.
How sad, yes of course.It was mentioned on this forum. The couple had been on numerous caminos before, the 65 year old husband died of sudden cardiac arrest, not because of a heatstroke or lack of water. There is not much to discuss. Sadly, such events can and do happen throughout the year on any camino, with a population of nearly 300,000 persons ranging in age from 0-90+ years of age.
When I read Tigger's announcement of another dead German walker on VDLP I was afraid it was one of the two people rescued two days ago. Glad that is not the case.Thanks, I am not sure we discussed it then. It was just to put the recent events into perspective.
Sad yes, my dads old climbing mate died while they were on Tongarero crossing a couple of years back, his middle name was Tama and the pair of them had gone up to the Tama Lakes which was a favourite walk of theirs, Jack sat down and that was that. Wal said he wouldn't have minded going that way himself.It was mentioned on this forum. The couple had been on numerous caminos before, the 65 year old husband died of sudden cardiac arrest, not because of a heatstroke or lack of water. There is not much to discuss. Sadly, such events can and do happen throughout the year on any camino, with a population of nearly 300,000 persons ranging in age from 0-90+ years of age.
You are right in the points you raise, and lucky to live so close to this amazing route that you get the chance to travel it during different seasons and see all that it brings. Sadly we have to travel literally half way around the world to walk on the Vpd, but it is worth it and I am looking forward to being back on this way next year. I hope do persist and complete the section from Salamanca, the route changes in nature from there but it is still lovely.To me, living only 200 miles away from Seville, it is a MUST to walk a few days in the dehesa every springtime, from Castilblanco to Zafra or so. It is an out-of-this-world experience; I have breakfast in Granada, lunch in Guillena, then dinner in Castilblanco sharing a table with Australians, Koreans, Brazilians... it is just amazing!!!
It's better than doing training walks during the Wet Season in Darwin! June/July in Spain was lovelyBut the weather problem cannot be "solved," there is nothing that can make walking the Vdlp in July a fun thing to do. Buen camio, Laurie
And don't you love being able to identify people by their footprints?Shhhh!!! Keep it a peaceful, beautiful and somewhat challenging Way. Having walked this route from Seville - Santiago in April/May of this year, I was pleased that there were fewer pilgrims -- so great to "connect" with more or less the same folks each evening, or every few days. Always knew who was ahead of me and who was behind... Perfect.
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