Shazenalan
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- CF 2018
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I may be wrong but my impression is that the religious and cultural visa has the same time limitation as the general one.I was reading that travel ‘for religious reasons’ may be grounds for a longer visa
Yes - certainly feels less free in many ways but it will make us consider carefully how we use the freedom we do have I guess.I may be wrong but my impression is that the religious and cultural visa has the same time limitation as the general one.
No luck, sorry. And welcome to the less priviledged world outside of the EU. It's a drag, but lots of us are in the same boat.
We did the Frances in 2 halves in 2018 & 19. We aim to fo it sgsin in one go, stopping at Sarria, then pick up again SdC To Muxia & Finisterre. Later in the yesr we were thinking of the Portugues from Porto. As oldies - our pace is around 20k a day, We sre looking at starting mid April latest - last time we did late August and I struggled with the heat so going earlier we would maybe have weather more like UK climate in the Eastern regions. And be further West later in the year. We need to fo our sums……. Where did I put my abacus…I was wondering how long your Caminos were going to be? Even with two 3 months Caminos you can fit them into a year, you could start in Mid Feb and finish in mid May and then come back again in Early October or maybe even earlier, if you get your timing right then you won't have been in Spain for 90 days in any 180 day period, apparently there is a calculator out there which does the sums for you, hopefully I I've got this right.
Thank you - we have been putting some sample dates in and it is looking promisingThere are a number of Schengen Zone calculators available online like this one
And isn't this option of a religious and cultural visa for people who do not benefit from the visa waiver program but who have to submit an application with justification of the reason for their trip?my impression is that the religious and cultural visa has the same time limitation as the general one.
It has nothing to do with Spain or with support for the Caminos. It's in the law about visas that is common to all EU countries.I was not sure - I had wondered if this was a way for Spain to support all Caminos as distinct from tourism - but I will stop there for fear of getting into an unintended nettle patch
Correct. No pre-approved visa is needed. Just show up at the border, port or airport and get your passport stamped on Schengen zone entry and exit.If you are British it is not necessary to obtain a visa
The rules for the amount of time do apply to you though. Pretend you are a Canadian.... spend 90 days in 180 for the Schenghen area.
Thank you - I’m rubbish at sccents tho!!Correct. No pre-approved visa is needed. Just show up at the border, port or airport and get your passport stamped on Schengen zone entry and exit.
The rules for the amount of time do apply to you though. Pretend you are a Canadian.
Are you from a non-European countryMy husband did speak to someone who was on a relgious visa several years ago that was working at Pilgrim House in Santiago. Maybe @natefaith has some information?
Surely a hypothetical questionBTW, a country doesn't have to be in the EU to be in the Schengen zone. Has the UK government considered joining the zone?
I have not heard anything about this so far - only that we can still travel on the 90/180 rule which I learned about on this very threadBTW, a country doesn't have to be in the EU to be in the Schengen zone. Has the UK government considered joining the zone?
How would this help? Canadians are subject to the same rule.Pretend you are a Canadian
That's what he meant. Instead of thinking like a pre-Brexit UK citizen, plan as a Canadian would.How would this help? Canadians are subject to the same rule.
Confirming this. When I've had a lot of clients in Europe simultaneously, I've kept a simple spreadsheet documenting my time in the Schengen Zone to make sure I didn't exceed the limits in any given 180 day period:The 90-day limit in 180 days refers to a rolling total. On any day, count back 180 days and note how many days were spent in Schengen countries. It must not exceed 90.
You do not need to spend 90 consecutive days out of the Schengen region. It depends on #days in and days out, during the last 180. You need to do the count.
Uh, okay.That's what he meant. Instead of thinking like a pre-Brexit UK citizen, plan as a Canadian would.
I believe that's the case in Italy, but not most EU countries.I was reading that travel ‘for religious reasons’ may be grounds for a longer visa
Yes.Wow - it takes some thinking to get around that - so say we did 60 days, Then after 60 days at home, did another 30 days. Back home for 60 days, and looking back 180, we would only have done 60 in that window? Am I doing thst correctly?
Yeah, confusion. I was trying to prevent it though.
If you are British it is not necessary to obtain a visa to spend 90 days in 180 for the Schenghen area.
The rules for the amount of time do apply to you though. Pretend you are a Canadian.
I would word it differently in this context (90 days out of 180 days): If you are British in 2022 and don't live in an EU country then the same rules apply to you that apply to Americans and Canadians in 2022 and had applied to them for the last 10 years (at least). Let them guide you and follow their advice. They know the ins and outs of the Schengen rules. You are one of them. Welcome to the club of third-country nationals and the EU visa waiver scheme.Yeah, confusion. I was trying to prevent it though.
BTW, a country doesn't have to be in the EU to be in the Schengen zone. Has the UK government considered joining the zone?
Not to my knowledge. There was once talk about it. There was apparently at least one petition to the UK parliament in this context. It garnered only 20,000 votes while 100,000 would be necessary for the UK parliament to even debate it - and debating doesn't mean acting upon it. The petition is closed and there is a comprehensive statement by the British government. I think it answers this question.Is the UK government doing anything to promote ease of travel (not work or residency) between the UK and Schengenia (my term)?
For me it does. Thank you.I think it answers this question.
Normally I use Schengen Zone. Maybe because that may have been the term used when I first encountered it. At times I think clarity calls for treating the various nations as if they were one entity.* That's when I use Schengenia, with a good portion of the reason being an attempt at humor.BTW, the proper term is Schengen Area but it's not commonly used. Schengenarea instead of Schengenia perhaps?
I think I used the term ‘Schengen Area’?BTW, the proper term is Schengen Area but it's not commonly used. Schengenarea instead of Schengenia perhaps?
I don't doubt it. It's the term used in EU law. I myself am with @Rick of Rick and Peg: I often write Schengen zone. Or Schengen countries. Or just Schengen although that's a small village in Luxembourg, strictly speaking. Schengenarea was an attempt at humour.I think I used the term ‘Schengen Area’?
It needs an i though as otherwise it is a bit hard to pronounce. Let's say Schengenistan.You say Schengenarea.
I say Schengenia.
Should we compromise with Schengenstan?
If we are going to add an I let's go all out.Let's say Schengenistan.
Surely a hypothetical question? They weren't in it before Brexit and one of the many reasons for Brexit was the desire to end the right to free movement for goods and people. Schengen is about free movement for EU citizens and EU residents. Schengen is not about facilitating touristic travel from non-EU+ countries.
No. I mistook the Schengen Agreement for being a smaller agreement than it is.
As an Aussie I hope that never happens! At least now we can spend 3 months in the Schengen 3 months in UK and then back to the Schengen and so on. It would also scupper plans, like I have, to spend 6 months walking the pilgrimage paths in the UK.BTW, a country doesn't have to be in the EU to be in the Schengen zone. Has the UK government considered joining the zone?
As an Australian with a valid passport you will be able to visit the UK for up to six months or 180 days (this applies to Canadians and visitors from the US also) so your plans should not be scuppered and there is no need to "come and go".As an Aussie I hope that never happens! At least now we can spend 3 months in the Schengen 3 months in UK and then back to the Schengen and so on. It would also scupper plans, like I have, to spend 6 months walking the pilgrimage paths in the UK.
Huh? Why not?do not allow for a 90 day stay and 90 day visit to the UK and for you then to have a further 90 days continuous within the Schengen area
so your plans should not be scuppered and there is no need to "come and go".
Brexit will have no affect for you whatsoever...only for people living in the UK so is the proverbial "red herring".I was referring to the previous comment (presumably made in jest) of maybe the UK should be encouraged to join the Schengen. UK not being in the schengen means that we Aussies can come and go (saves coming home) to abide by the 180 day rule for the schengen. I have already spent 6 months walking in the UK and have plans for another 6 in the future - hopefully Brexit doesn't' change that time allowed. Switzerland joining the Schengen meant that when walking the VF I had to do it 8 days faster than I had originally planned!
So is it not possible to return to the SZ after first staying in the SZ for 90 days, then leaving to go to the UK for at least 90 days? I'm confused, because I have been told that's totally possible.So, apparently in 2022, you can stay a total of 6 months in either the EU or the UK as a visa free foreign visitor.
You are correct and you are missing nothing. This is allowed: 90 days in Schengen, 90 days out of Schengen, 90 days in Schengen, 90 days out of Schengen and so on and on.Huh? Why not?
90 + 90 = 180.
What am I missing?
I know that it can be confusing and I am often not explaining it in the most simple way. What you say is entirely possible.So is it not possible to return to the SZ after first staying in the SZ for 90 days, then leaving to go to the UK for at least 90 days? I'm confused, because I have been told that's totally possible.
The 90 days is a total. So if you can spend say, 45 days doing one camino. That leaves another 45 to do another camino without having to wait another 180 days.Hi - given a 2 year hiccup in our Camino plans we were hoping to ‘fill our boots’ this yearHowever it seems as Brexited Brits ( )we can stay for 90 days on a tourist visa in any 180 days - meaning our plans to fit in 2 Caminos this year may be scuppered. I was reading that travel ‘for religious reasons’ may be grounds for a longer visa - would walking a Camino qualify? Can anyone with experience of post-Brexit travel offer advice or suggestions on how to legitimately extend our stay, or do we have to spend 90 days at home before returning?
It is possible to spend more than 90 days at once in the Schengen Zone as a tourist by using bilateral treaties. Australians and New Zealanders seem to be especially fortunate this way. Check out the webpage below and then search the forum, a lot has been written on this here.As an Aussie I hope that never happens! At least now we can spend 3 months in the Schengen 3 months in UK and then back to the Schengen and so on. It would also scupper plans, like I have, to spend 6 months walking the pilgrimage paths in the UK.
Here is one way to go.For any Schengen country, anyone can try to apply for a visa that will grant a stay of more than 90 days. Numerous people have tried this and succeeded, including people who want to walk long caminos. The application process at the Consulate (located in your own country and at the Consulate that belongs to the Schengen country of your first entry) takes time, a
Yes those bi-lateral trade agreements are a bonus for us. Care has to be taken though. I have used them twice. The first time I was told by the embassy (German) that I only had to leave the country. I did this - leaving Germany and heading towards SDC via Paris, though I had to catch a train for part of the way. I had to talk fairly hard at the customs desk on departure, on about day 165, with the letter from the embassy re-read several times and a queue building behind me! The second time, instead of just leaving the country, I left the Schengen, via the Munich airport, flying to London for the day. I was waved through in seconds at the customs desk when I went to return home on day 130. My conclusion is that, by leaving, and returning, the schengen via an airport my name didn't have a flag against it. I suspect that leaving the Schengen to go via bus / train, or even walking to those small municipalities such as San Marino, Vatican city etc would mean that names would continue to be displayed with a flag against them.It is possible to spend more than 90 days at once in the Schengen Zone as a tourist by using bilateral treaties. Australians and New Zealanders seem to be especially fortunate this way.
There are no flags against names when you leavewould mean that names would continue to be displayed with a flag against them
And in the airport we are referred to as "Aliens" and must take that queue.I didn't even know this. I had a quick look on various gov.uk websites.
EU nationals and Swiss nationals can enter the UK visa free and stay for up to 6 months in one go. Same as AUS nationals. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visiting-the-uk-as-an-eu-eea-or-swiss-citizen
It is not possible to go "in and out" of the UK to stay quasi permanently, like 6 months in, 1 day out, 6 months in. Apparently, in practice you can only stay 6 months out of 1 year. There is no formal law but these are the Home Office's instructions to border control; they have to look at the previous travel history and make their decision about refusing or allowing a visitor in. They don't have the rolling 90/180 days system that EU/Schengen has.
Both the EU and UK treat all their visa free foreign visitors the same, ie no exceptions for EU visitors in the UK and no exceptions for UK visitors in the EU. That was already explained in the UK government statement to the online petition quoted earlier if you read that.
The EU call their visa free foreign visitors "third country nationals". The UK calls their visa free foreign visitors "standard visitor". I learnt a new term today.
Really, "aliens"? As in "extraterrestrials? Which airport in which EU country and language is that? Never seen or heard it in my part of the world. I know that they use this expression in the USA in the context of visitors who are not US citizens.And in the airport we are referred to as "Aliens" and must take that queue.
HeathrowReally, "aliens"? As in "extraterrestrials? Which airport in which EU country and language is that? Never seen or heard it in my part of the world. I know that they use this expression in the USA in the context of visitors who are not US citizens.
Sorry, pre-Brexit, meaning neither UK nor EU.Really, "aliens"? As in "extraterrestrials? Which airport in which EU country and language is that? Never seen or heard it in my part of the world. I know that they use this expression in the USA in the context of visitors who are not US citizens.
They count for what? At end of 90 days in and 90 days out, 180 days are over. Gone. In the past. The clock IS set to zero. Or am I missing something?Exactly right Rick and a good analogy to make. It is the 180 day read back.
You cannot be in the Schengen zone for 90 days and out for 90 days and the clock resorts to zero again. It has only just started ticking again.
At the end of your 90 days out the 90 days in still count.
No. I mistook the Schengen Agreement for being a smaller agreement than it is.
At the end of your 90 days out the 90 days in still count.
The first 90 days are still in the count, but they are counting down at the same rate that your new days are counting upThey count for what?
It is a rolling 180 day calculation.The first 90 days are still in the count, but they are counting down at the same rate that your new days are counting up
See? You are both right! And I am sitting at home far away from the countries in question, counting the days.
If one were to distribute the time correctly, couldn't one spend six months in the EU* and six months in the UK in 2022 (rather than or)?So, apparently in 2022, you can stay a total of 6 months in either the EU or the UK as a visa free foreign visitor.
The difference is only how you can distribute your time over these 12 months of 2022. I am happy to be corrected if I got that wrong.
Is there a long-distance path in one direction in the UK where you would need 6 months to walk it? The straight line from Land's End to John O'Groats is only 600 miles/1000 km.
Well, Wikipedia is editable. If you change the definition and include a footnote reference to the official definition, your edit might stick and you will have improved things.I've often wondered why we call you foreign visitors "third country nationals". I mean you are the national of a third country but who are the other two countries? So I looked it up. As so often, it is not so much about tourists coming to the EU but about those who have rights as EU nationals or EU residents to work, live and travel within the European Union. The definition is:
In the European Union, the term "third country national" (TCN) is often used, together with "foreign national" and "non-EU foreign national", to refer to individuals who are neither from the EU country in which they are currently living or staying, nor from other member states of the European Union.I think it is useful to explain this because, often, in the context of current Covid-19 travel restrictions, "third countries" and "third country nationals" are mentioned but the term is not known to a wider public. For example the Spanish government's Travel Health SpTH website uses it: For more information on the entry requirements for Spain, from third countries, please visit this link. And also their weekly list of third countries that are considered as Covid-19 risk countries.
Come to think of it, not such a great definition in the EN Wikipedia. Wiki articles in other languages are better: Third-country national is a legal term from the law of the European Union. It is essentially used to designate those nationals who are excluded from the right to freedom of movement under European law.
At the end of your 90 days out, the original 90 days in still count. But the next morning, only 89 of the 90 days in still count, so you can re-enter the Schengen Area. The morning after that, only 88 of those first 90 days still count, so you can stay in the Schengen Area. And so on. Until you have spent another 90 days in the Schengen area, at which time you will have to leave.Exactly right Rick and a good analogy to make. It is the 180 day read back.
You cannot be in the Schengen zone for 90 days and out for 90 days and the clock resorts to zero again. It has only just started ticking again.
At the end of your 90 days out the 90 days in still count.
Quite correct.At the end of your 90 days out, the original 90 days in still count. But the next morning, only 89 of the 90 days in still count, so you can re-enter the Schengen Area. The morning after that, only 88 of those first 90 days still count, so you can stay in the Schengen Area. And so on. Until you have spent another 90 days in the Schengen area, at which time you will have to leave.
That's not what everyone else is saying. Not counted forward from your first visit but counted backward from the present. On any given day, look at the previous 180 days. If more than 90 of them were in the Schengen Area, you are out of compliance. That's what everyone else in this thread has said. If everyone else is correct, you only have to depart for a full 90 days.Quite correct.
Strictly speaking if you want to stay another 90 days within the schengen zone you need to have been outside for 180 days. The 180 day calculation starts from day one of your first visit.
It would take a further 90 days (180 days) for your first 90 day stay to totally disappear from the calculations.
That is true, in terms of planning for that exact scenario of 90 days out, 90 days in, and how long you can stay on the next entry.Strictly speaking if you want to stay another 90 days within the schengen zone you need to have been outside for 180 days. The 180 day calculation starts from day one of your first visit.
Also true. But there is no need for the first 90 days to totally disappear from the calculation. One day at a time will suffice.It would take a further 90 days (180 days) for your first 90 day stay to totally disappear from the calculations.
I totally agree that you do not need to wait for the 90 days to disappear. I have only given this as an example for it to happen.That is true, in terms of planning for that exact scenario of 90 days out, 90 days in, and how long you can stay on the next entry.
Also true. But there is no need for the first 90 days to totally disappear from the calculation. One day at a time will suffice.
Neat.My Schengen tool. It is intended to be used as an educational tool. Don't use it for real. I will edit with corrections as long as the forum software allows me to.
BTW, the EU Online Schengen Calculator comes with a user manual. In it, they address the topic of the legacy bilateral visa waiver agreements between certain Schengen States and certain third countries as provided by Article 20(2) of the Convention Implementing the Schengen Agreement. So this is not a secret and @Rick of Rick and Peg has mentioned these agreements and provided a link to more information. They can allow pilgrims of certain nationalities to stay longer than 90 days in certain Schengen countries. However, they also note that it is merely a possibility for these Schengen countries to apply their "old" bilateral agreements for an extension of stay but it is not an obligation.
That's Southern Ireland to you RickFor those who want to stay up to 90 days in the EU but outside the Schengen Area there is Ireland.
Incorrect. For me it is Ireland.That's Southern Ireland to you Rick
I did mention work was required but I left it up for the webpage to elaborate. But the work I was thinking of was getting visas or permissions from embassies or consulates of the countries for the extensions. You can't just expect to show up and be let in (or stay in one of the bilateral countries past the Schengen time limit without doing anything).They can allow pilgrims of certain nationalities to stay longer than 90 days in certain Schengen countries. However, they also note that it is merely a possibility for these Schengen countries to apply their "old" bilateral agreements for an extension of stay but it is not an obligation.
How difficult is obtaining a long-stay Schengen visa (U.S. citizen)? I'm hoping to walk the Gebennensis from Geneve, then the Podiensis to SJPP, then up to Irun, then the del Norte, Muxia, and Fisterra, some rest and "cultural" days, and transition days on each end. All in, I'm estimating about 110 days. Most documents are no problem, but obviously cannot prove lodging accommodations all the way across in advance. Is this doable or should I reconcile to a 90 day limit? I've emailed the Swiss consulate near me. Visa services are not available in the France or Spain consulates closest to me.The 90-day limit in 180 days refers to a rolling total. On any day, count back 180 days and note how many days were spent in Schengen countries. It must not exceed 90.
You do not need to spend 90 consecutive days out of the Schengen region. It depends on #days in and days out, during the last 180. You need to do the count.
I have no particular knowledge of this, but my impression is that it is not a trivial task and maybe not worth it unless you want to move to Europe. I expect that it is a lot easier to modify your route to fit within 90 days!How difficult is obtaining a long-stay Schengen visa (U.S. citizen)? ... All in, I'm estimating about 110 days.
If you need to remain longer than 90 days in Europe, then you must apply for a residency permit according to the Schengen visa website.How difficult is obtaining a long-stay Schengen visa (U.S. citizen)? I'm hoping to walk the Gebennensis from Geneve, then the Podiensis to SJPP, then up to Irun, then the del Norte, Muxia, and Fisterra, some rest and "cultural" days, and transition days on each end. All in, I'm estimating about 110 days. Most documents are no problem, but obviously cannot prove lodging accommodations all the way across in advance. Is this doable or should I reconcile to a 90 day limit? I've emailed the Swiss consulate near me. Visa services are not available in the France or Spain consulates closest to me.
Unfortunately, that thread discusses only plans for a long stay visa but there is no feedback from someone who has applied for and obtained a long stay visa. I think there are some forum members who did this but I can't remember who. In any case "long stay visa" and "residence permit" are not the same thing.Here is a 5-year old thread on the subject.
I have a friend who is a UK citizen and resident in the UK but has a holiday home in Spain. When he looked into a long-stay visa, he was told he needed to provide a certificate from a doctor to say that he was in good health. He was unable to this as he has various medical conditions so he gave up.Unfortunately, that thread discusses only plans for a long stay visa but there is no feedback from someone who has applied for and obtained a long stay visa. I think there are some forum members who did this but I can't remember who. In any case "long stay visa" and "residence permit" are not the same thing.
Long stay visa: visa to stay for a duration that is longer than 90 days/three months. In Spanish: visado para estancia de larga duración. In other EU languages: list here. Contact the Consulate of the country in question in your own home country. Note: It may not give you the right to move between EU countries, just to stay in the country who issued the visa!
My recommendation is to reconcile. Although in theory Americans can spend more than 90 days in the Schengen Area it would only be in Denmark and/or Poland. Obviously not helpful for your camino plans. I don't believe it is automatic to enter either. I think you need to apply for visas.should I reconcile to a 90 day limit?
My friend @pinkwadingbird went through the process and is now living in Granada. I dont know if she is on the forum very often nowadays.Unfortunately, that thread discusses only plans for a long stay visa but there is no feedback from someone who has applied for and obtained a long stay visa. I think there are some forum members who did this but I can't remember who.
There are no flags against names when you leave. There are no automated checking systems to control exit and entry of a visa free traveller. The only way to check overstaying is a visual check of the Schengen entry/exit stamps and dates in your passport. They don't check for overstaying when they put your passport under a scanner at the airport or in Paris or London Eurostar train stations; these automated checks have other purposes.
All this is going to change, perhaps as early as at the end of this year 2022 when they finally start their EES system. Quote: "The EES is expected to be operational end of September 2022."
It is in your own interest to use the same passport when travelling into and out of the Schengen area. The reason are the tiny entry stamps and exit stamps that you now, after the end of free movement, get each time you cross an external EU/Schengen border. If you only have an entry stamp but no exit stamp in one passport, how do you want to prove that you remained within the 90 days/180 days limits during subsequent trips?So, if there’s no electronic record I could use my passports alternately?
I applied for a long stay visa for Sweden in 2008. I went to the embassy in the city where I live. They gave me the forms and advised what information they needed.Unfortunately, that thread discusses only plans for a long stay visa but there is no feedback from someone who has applied for and obtained a long stay visa. I think there are some forum members who did this but I can't remember who. In any case "long stay visa" and "residence permit" are not the same thing.
Long stay visa: visa to stay for a duration that is longer than 90 days/three months. In Spanish: visado para estancia de larga duración. In other EU languages: list here. Contact the Consulate of the country in question in your own home country. Note: It may not give you the right to move between EU countries, just to stay in the country who issued the visa!
I did not need to promise to stay only within Sweden and I travelled to Germany while I was there.But as I thought, long-stay visas are entirely a matter of each EU country; they do not allow the holder to roam around in other countries expect in the one country who issued the visa. In case someone wonders how that is controlled: I don't know. You probably signed something to this effect; it may say so on the long-stay visa papers that you received, and you are expected to comply.
You need to put yourself in the mind of the immigration officer who will consider your application for a longer stay visa. Their job is to encourage and enable non-permanent visitors who will benefit the country's economy by spending money while stopping permanent immigrants and/or people who will work.Hi - given a 2 year hiccup in our Camino plans we were hoping to ‘fill our boots’ this yearHowever it seems as Brexited Brits ( )we can stay for 90 days on a tourist visa in any 180 days - meaning our plans to fit in 2 Caminos this year may be scuppered. I was reading that travel ‘for religious reasons’ may be grounds for a longer visa - would walking a Camino qualify? Can anyone with experience of post-Brexit travel offer advice or suggestions on how to legitimately extend our stay, or do we have to spend 90 days at home before returning?
There is also a financially independent visa. This simply requires proof that you can support yourself. In Greece that means have €2000 a month from unearned income ( pension, investments etc). In Portugal you only need around €7000 a year. Every country is different, so you need to check. Also, there may be a requirement to deposit money in a local bank account for the duration of your stay.Apparently, long-stay visa are called D-Visa in the EU countries and there are study/research visa, work visa, business visa, joining-family visa, work-experience visa, training-for-a-job visa, and employment visa. It will be interesting to learn whether there are Camino/long-distance-hiking visa and to hear from someone who got one. Best of luck!
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