CJ Williams
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Via Turonense (1995)
Camino Francés (1996; 1999; 2001; 2005; 2008; 2011)
Camino Aragonés (2000)
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TrishAlexSage said:Very sad. Did he step through deep snow, not realizing there was a sharp drop-off ahead? Was he caught in a small avalanche? Or was he hypothermic and no longer aware of what he was doing?
chas999 said:My thoughts and prayers are with the loss of our fellow pilgrim and also with his family.
May God love and protect him.
Navarricano, can I thank you for your choice of words at the loss of our brother pilgrim. I thought that were wonderful and with your permission I would like to take a copy.
Keep safe out there and may your God protect you.
David said:How sad - let us hope that he fell out of his body and into the arms of angels .
In some ways the Camino has become a competition. Who can do it fastest. Who walks the longest days. Who rides it on a unicycle or goes barefoot. Who is familiar with winter or mountains, and can go anywhere anytime regardless of age, companions, or weather. It creates a dangerous situation for those who can get caught up, consciously or unconsciously, in the competition. I have thought all winter about the ten Koreans who took great risks in crossing the Pyrenees against all advice. I suspect they were driven by a culture that they feared would cause them to lose face if they made a safe decision. The advocates of slow and easy, smelling the flowers as you go, are giving sage and safe advice. The skydivers among us will ignore it, of course, as is their right! All of us who have promoted competition, declared that the Camino is easy for them or their children, or urged others to press their limits have a bit of culpability when someone's judgement has been negatively affected. Goading others, even subtly, is a disservice, I think. One of the essential messages I have taken from Jesus is that it is better to cooperate than compete. You never find the win-win through competition in game theory; you only find the winner. What a terrible outcome for the family of the Canadian pilgrim. It breaks my heart.Especially those who might be full of bravado in difficult conditions.
Ditto.falcon269 said:What a terrible outcome for the family of the Canadian pilgrim. It breaks my heart.
i have yet to do my first Camino, but one of the big lessons I hope to learn on my journey is to let go of ego. It seems to me that some people approach the camino as if it's an athletic event, like a marathon, and they forget that it's a pilgrimage. It's a sacred journey. And being a pilgrim means embracing humility.falcon269 said:In some ways the Camino has become a competition. Who can do it fastest. Who walks the longest days.
falcon269 said:In some ways the Camino has become a competition. Who can do it fastest. Who walks the longest days. Who rides it on a unicycle or goes barefoot. Who is familiar with winter or mountains, and can go anywhere anytime regardless of age, companions, or weather. It creates a dangerous situation for those who can get caught up, consciously or unconsciously, in the competition. I have thought all winter about the ten Koreans who took great risks in crossing the Pyrenees against all advice. I suspect they were driven by a culture that they feared would cause them to lose face if they made a safe decision. The advocates of slow and easy, smelling the flowers as you go, are giving sage and safe advice. The skydivers among us will ignore it, of course, as is their right! All of us who have promoted competition, declared that the Camino is easy for them or their children, or urged others to press their limits have a bit of culpability when someone's judgement has been negatively affected. Goading others, even subtly, is a disservice, I think. One of the essential messages I have taken from Jesus is that it is better to cooperate than compete. You never find the win-win through competition in game theory; you only find the winner. What a terrible outcome for the family of the Canadian pilgrim. It breaks my heart.Especially those who might be full of bravado in difficult conditions.
falcon269 said:In some ways the Camino has become a competition. Who can do it fastest. Who walks the longest days. Who rides it on a unicycle or goes barefoot. Who is familiar with winter or mountains, and can go anywhere anytime regardless of age, companions, or weather.
In St. Jean it can be a beautiful day - but that path goes over a real mountain and even on a 'good' day the weather can change in minutes.
WOW! quite an experience; what time of the year did you go?MCVet said:Would like to re-iterate this for emphasis, asit happened to me.
WOW! quite an experience; what time of the year did you go?
MCVet said:I started July 11th. It was still rather cold at that altitude. The hike up warms you up, so I was in a short sleeved shirt and shorts. I had a long sleeved shirt (a hoodie) but my poncho was short sleeved and the sleeves would just get soaked and then wick temperature out through that, as well as have constant damp against my skin.
I was pretty cold by the time I reached the Navarra stone, or at least my extremities were. I still had a very warm core so I wasn't especially concerned, and didn't think it was paradoxical hypothermia, but I did change into long pants (jeans) and put on as many layers of clothing as I could while in the middle of the trail under some trees (was still raining) and that helped a bit. The head was dry but the feet were not, so I was losing warmth that way as well.
And making the right choice to stay put can also make all the difference in the world. An adrenaline rush or proving one's toughness is a poor excuse for risking your life, or the lives of your loved one.Having the right clothing can make all the difference in the world in terms of comfort and safety.
falcon269 said:And making the right choice to stay put can also make all the difference in the world. An adrenaline rush or proving one's toughness is a poor excuse for risking your life, or the lives of your loved one.Having the right clothing can make all the difference in the world in terms of comfort and safety.
backpack45 said:Indeed rain can be more dangerous than snow. I echo the advice to avoid cotton. Wear layers of Smartwool or synthetics that can be removed as needed to regulate your core temperature and reduce sweating. Hypothermia can occur even at cool temperatures (above 40 degrees).
Yes, mine as well.chas999 said:My thoughts and prayers are with the loss of our fellow pilgrim and also with his family.
So let there be balance - check the weather reports. Snow? don't go. Storms? Don't go. All other times, take care, go early, pace yourself - enjoy!
Susannafromsweden said:Navarricano, they have released his name.
Here:
http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/mundo/20 ... r-ele.html
David said:Gilbert Janeri - he looks like he was a nice man - he leaves a son.
Navarricano said:But folks, please... her rescue was complicated by the snow.
That is the choice????It's unfortunate when injuries do happen, but locking yourself into a room for the rest of your life in an attempt to make sure your rescue is easy isn't much of a life either.
Green Tortuga said:I find that strangely offensive. So let me understand this correctly--you believe that no one should ever go out into the snow?
-- Ryan
Green Tortuga said:Navarricano said:But folks, please... her rescue was complicated by the snow.
I find that strangely offensive. So let me understand this correctly--you believe that no one should ever go out into the snow?
You know what else can complicate a rescue? Hurting yourself when you're in the Pyrenees without snow. There might be cliffs that need navigating, the visibility might be bad, and rescuers might take a wrong turn on their way out of town.
Every rescue is unique and can have complications. But that's hardly a reason not to go on the road less traveled and get off the beaten path. It's unfortunate when injuries do happen, but locking yourself into a room for the rest of your life in an attempt to make sure your rescue is easy isn't much of a life either. Oh, wait, firefighters have DIED trying to rescue people from their own homes. How utterly selfish of them, getting trapped in their very own homes.
I plan to snowshoe around Crater Lake later this month. I'll take every precaution to do so safely, and while there's always a chance I could get caught up in an avalanche or break a leg or something, but telling me I shouldn't even go--or waiting until the summer--kind of defeats the purpose. To get out and LIVE. To see Crater Lake covered in snow without the hoards of tourists in their fleet of shiny cars.
Just because you don't feel comfortable trekking through the snow is no reason to show contempt for those that do. Maybe it's not suitable for you, and that's alright. But it's not fair to judge others who have a different level of experience or capabilities by comparing it to your own. There are people who walk the Pyrenees in the summer who have no business doing something so strenuous, and there are people in the winter who know exactly what they're doing.
So in my opinion--assuming that the woman is qualified and has experience traveling through the snow--good for her. Accidents happen, and she had the skills and knowledge to extract herself from a potentially dangerous situation. That's exactly how we want things to work!
-- Ryan
Pieces said:okay, changed my mind.
I somehow find it strangely offensive to rant in a post announcing the very unfortunate death of a fellow pilgrim...
Anniesantiago said:When the local population, who have grown up in the area, advise a pilgrim NOT to travel over the pass, but rather to take the road for safety, then I believe that they should listen and NOT travel over the pass.
I thought this video was very effective in illustrating the concept that IF locals are advising not to cross/use the Route Napoleon there is no second option; you do not cross. Period. There were so many signs for this young man to stay put; he ignored them all and almost paid dearly. The video really captures the thought process from total disregard to local advice to his desperation and regret when he gets lost.DeadFred said:Found the video I mentioned in my last post .. If your a first time Pilgrim ( like me ) heed this . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSUd9aw_-yM
Olivares said:The part about the local truck picking him up just to dropped him back at an isolated section of the Camino was confusing to me...what do you guys think happened? I really have a hard time believing that a local farmer found this young man lost, cold, and hungry and opted to dropped him off to his luck. :?: [/color]
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