An unholy year on the Camino Frances

[tyrrek]

Hi nc6000!

There will always be some litter problem due to the number of people walking. I didn't find it a particular issue when walking last April/May, but maybe it's worse after the summer. Most people do respect the Camino, but there will always be a minority.

I noticed when clearing up in Palencia in December that it's often on the way out of a town/village, where people have bought drinks cans, bottles, food etc that the problem is worse. After a couple of hundred metres it's much better. There are also issues such as picnic areas without adequate litter bins, which is asking for trouble in my opinion. Localised problems, which with a little bit of imagination and efficiency could be resolved.

As for 'toilet litter', by definition it tends to be off the route and out sight, but it's not nice if you do come across it. A sheltered area just off the route may not be the best place to pitch a tent, for example.

It shouldn't have a significant impact on your experience, so Buen Camino!

Keith

 

[Abbeydore]

"I noticed when clearing up in Palencia in December that it's often on the way out of a town/village, where people have bought drinks cans, bottles, food etc that the problem is worse. After a couple of hundred metres it's much better. "

So I'm taking a bag-a-day, so I've only got to walk a few yards out of the Albergue to fill my bag each morn. then come back to pick my own bag up. Good News. via the coloured bins :lol:

 

[tyrrek]

"So I'm taking a bag-a-day, so I've only got to walk a few yards out of the Albergue to fill my bag each morn. then come back to pick my own bag up. Good News. via the coloured bins :lol:

Ha ha! Seriously, though, that would be great!

It's difficult to know where to draw the line. When Reb and I were litter-picking we stayed outside the towns and villages themselves because people are probably employed to do that job there. In the countryside it's a bit more vague. We came across agricultural waste (fertiliser sacks etc) and questioned whether we should pick them up or leave them. Should pilgrims be spared the reality of rural life in Spain and given a sanitised, Disney-Camino? Of course not! We couldn't resist picking up some, though, and hubcaps etc...

Anything you do will be blessed by St James I'm sure.

Buen Camino!

 

[letendre]

Is there still as much of an issue with litter on the Camino Frances?

I see that this thread was started in 2010 and that various groups have made efforts to clean up the route since this discussion started. I'm starting my Camino in April and am horrified at the thought of walking the route while surrounded by piles of litter and excrement etc.

I would have thought in general that the type of person attracted to the Camino would respect the route and their environs.

Spain is one of the richest states in the world may be the twelveth.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)).
Spain is also a democraty like United States, England or Australia.
Fortunately, the way of st james in France and in Spain is not what you sometimes read on the web! It is not a bin.
You'll find drinking water in every village.
I understand the future pilgrims questions about the quality of water, or bugs, or on cleanliness in albergues or on promiscuity.
But I hate the responses of the ancient pilgrims : only the insignificant details
I repeat : Do not believe everything you read! Don't worry
The way to Saint Jacques is really wonderful.
Certainly one of the best souvernirs of my life

 

[tyrrek]

Hi Letendre. You can be as rich as you like but we can only take things as we find them. I wish I'd found all this promiscuity that we're all supposedly complaining about, though!

Buen Camino!

ps. Sorry Reb, I stole your photo.

 

[reg2450]

what a wonderful read through this thread has been - gross topic and all. Thanks for starting it, addressing it, examining it, discussing it, brainstorming it and coming up with some great ideas and wonderful insights. I was irate with those who were irate, contemplative with those who brought in new ideas, thoughtful when news of waste (regardless of WHAT) everywhere came in, wondered about how busy the place must be at times, and ... well, you get the picture.
I have laughed out loud with the links that came with the first post (sorry - a loooong way back) about pooing in the great outdoors. Who would have thought I had to think that far outside the box? But now I think I'm as prepared as prepared can be.
I am also relieved to see this particular forum go from uncomfortable, through tricky and kinda bad to relatively comfortable onto pretty ok. There is a solution and I'm it.
I will pack my extra bags (I was advised to anyway for waterproofing), I will take my rubbish with me, I will try my absolute darndest to "evacuate" in a considerate and hygienic manner, and I will hopefully STILL have a wonderful, spiritual, enlightening, encouraging, challenging and indescribable pilgrimage. Thank you all for showing me how clever us humans are, not just how yukky we can be. :idea:

 

[Toobizy]

You have the conviction to be right, you think it is imperative you see your past accomplishments and future on the way to Compostela, you argue that tourists have no place on the way, you can not stand snorers or not hikers or promiscuity or in shelters or in the cathedral of Santiago, which you condemn commercialism of all providers who work with and for walkers.
But your message talk about details without importance.
The way of st james is not as you write

Wow! I'm planning currently to take a roll of TP & those plastic doggy-poop bags to scoop my poo and paper just as I would my doggy's. Then dispose of it in a trash bin. I think, ideally, a pilgrimage is about accepting things that I would normally deem unacceptable, while giving my utmost effort to be a traveler who emulates Jesus in terms of accepting, & offering kindness to, others, including those unhappy, angry unfortunates along the way (of whom I will be one, at times). Imperfectly.

 

[vagabondette]

Well, I guess I have my second project for my Camino. I hate litter and I have no problem calling people on it. Once, standing on a corner waiting to cross in DC a man threw a wrapper on the ground when a trash can was literally 3 feet away. I picked it up, handed it to him and told him he'd missed the trash can. He gave me a nasty look but tossed it. Most people are embarrassed or angry but quiet when I call it out but I have had a couple get belligerent. I just walk away.

I'll plan on picking up trash as I go along the camino now. Guess I should also bring some gloves as I don't intend to carry one of those handy picker-upper things like in the pic.

 

[Abbeydore]

I'll plan on picking up trash as I go along the camino now. Guess I should also bring some gloves as I don't intend to carry one of those handy picker-upper things like in the pic.

Yes, thank you, I'll take gloves too, thanks for that advice.

'A BAG A DAY & SOME GLOVES'

David

 

[Rebekah Scott]

FYI, you don´t need to carry a load of bags with you. Your pilgrim albergue/hostel has tons of grocery carrier bags, left behind by preceding pilgrims. And you can use another plastic bag as a "glove," and throw both away once you´ve filled up the first. Saves on weight, gets more plastic out of circulation.

I think too much about trash.
Reb.

 

[grayland]

Is this what you call 'Trash Talk"? :shock:

 

[glennb]

I will be walking in April. I resolve to pick up a little liter each day and dump it at the next trash receptacle. Let's all do the same, and maybe we can leave it a better place, as well as set an example for others.

A sentiment that is perhaps not all that different than the feelings that prompted us to pursue this adventure to begin with.

 

[Abbeydore]

FYI, you don´t need to carry a load of bags with you. Your pilgrim albergue/hostel has tons of grocery carrier bags, left behind by preceding pilgrims. And you can use another plastic bag as a "glove," and throw both away once you´ve filled up the first. Saves on weight, gets more plastic out of circulation.

I think too much about trash.
Reb.

Maybe a bag or two given to each pilgrim as they leave would be a good thing to do.

Maybe soon you might have less to think about Reb , hope so!

 

[Anniesantiago]

:::raising her right hand::

I promise to carry a trash bag and pick up trash every day on my Camino!

 

[Toobizy]

You have the conviction to be right, you think it is imperative you see your past accomplishments and future on the way to Compostela, you argue that tourists have no place on the way, you can not stand snorers or not hikers or promiscuity or in shelters or in the cathedral of Santiago, which you condemn commercialism of all providers who work with and for walkers.
But your message talk about details without importance.
The way of st james is not as you write

Keith

This reminds me of years ago when I said to my brother, "Our mother is interfering with my spiritual growth!" with her annoying reminders and advice. The irony was not lost on me, even as I said it!

 

[Tincatinker]

I promise to carry a bag and pick up trash every day of my Camino. Scouts honour.

 

[fraluchi]

Throughout the 800km of the Camino Frances [I found]
- litter;
- graffiti vandalism
- human excrement
I would love to hear from anyone who would like to help with some sort of clean-up
I also welcome those who know they have littered or defecated and left remains or drawn graffiti to comment on their reasons why
I do want to hear your opinions, thoughts and ideas on what we can do as a collective.
THINK...the path will remain the way you leave it until someone comes along and cleans it up.

Since gregdedman wrote his lament, time has passed and the issues which he addressed were taken seriously, not only on this forum but also in various municipalities along the Camino Frances.
Education is the key to civilized behaviour. There will always be exceptions along the way, impossible to control nor to reprimand the culprit. With ever more pilgrims walking the 800 kms. from Roncesvalles to Santiago, the challenge cannot be underestimated.

 

[Tincatinker]

OK, so here I am on my Camino. And keeping my promise to litter pick every day. Have had some nice comments from people who have spotted what I am doing. The amazing thing is that although no one personally drops litter there is always litter for me to pick. For this I am grateful.

A short post from a cranky connection.

Buen Camino all

 

[tyrrek]

OK, so here I am on my Camino. And keeping my promise to litter pick every day. Have had some nice comments from people who have spotted what I am doing. The amazing thing is that although no one personally drops litter there is always litter for me to pick. For this I am grateful.

A short post from a cranky connection.

Buen Camino all

Good on ya! I just got home about an hour ago from Pamplona-SdC. Some places were impressively clear, possibly down to your efforts! Others were still bad. I worked on about 40kms overall, but sometimes just on one side of the road where it was dangerous to keep crossing over. I also got positive comments from people. The important thing is raising awareness by action, in my opinion.

 

[cstclare]

I am leaving from SJPP on April 24, and have also vowed to pick up a bag of litter every day. I have the forum patch on my backpack, so I think that will be a good advertisement. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all forum members got the patch and made a "green Camino" pledge? We could really make a positive impact on the environment and other pilgrims.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

We still have lots of Camino Cleanup bags here at the Peaceable, left over from the South African Confraternity´s Spring Clean of two years ago. FREE trash bag and cup of coffee/tea to any pilgrim who stops in!

 

[jemitch65]

Hello Rebekah: What is Peacetable and where do I get bags from them? I am walking the Camino Frances in May and June and want to do what I can to make the way a little nicer for those behind me. I find it DISGRACEFUL that there is so much ignorance out there that anyone would intentionally throw their trash on the ground. I did an 11 day 125 mile hike of the 100 Mile Wilderness in Maine last summer and took out everything I brought in with me plus some trash I saw along the way. I can think of no other distraction to take away from this experience than to see this beautiful path desecrated by thoughtless idiots that should have stayed home.

 

[scikowski]

I'll take you up on that, Rebekah! We are leaving from Ventosa on Sunday!
Sue

 

[Abbeydore]

Can report that there´s not much rubbish to pick up from Astorga to Santiago, found it very clean.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Wow, I am impressed! I usually find the trails from Sarria onward are pretty bad, especially when a youth group has been there recently. (How do we reach youth groups with the message??) (And the bikers, who love that Tour de France rush that comes with flinging plastic water bottles over their shoulders as they shift gears...) grrrrr...

anyway, The Peaceable is in Moratinos, on the meseta 9 km. before Sahagun. We try to keep "our" section of the camino pretty well picked-up, so trash bags are just one of our feature attractions!

 

[broussma]

I agree that litter along any area is hurtful to our land and sad.

I wonder if along the way some of us could bring along a trash bag filling just one, leaving it on the road side for pickup?

I am game... I will bring latex gloves as well... Signed.. I feel your pain...

 

[tyrrek]

Can report that there´s not much rubbish to pick up from Astorga to Santiago, found it very clean.

That surprises me a bit. I was there last week and it was bad. On some stetches elsewhere on the Camino you could walk 5kms fom village to village and clear practically eveything with just a plastic bag and a cut-off plastic bottle (to stuff the chocolate wrappers into). Very satisfying. After Sarria I thought you could only really focus on one spot/type of litter, and even then it would feel like a drop in the ocean. Plastic bottles seemed to be a particular problem on the later stages.

p.s. Smokers of Lucky Strike are the worst polluters of cigarette packets. Discuss. :lol:

Buen Camino!

 

[Tincatinker]

Hi Reb,

I hope to drop by The Peaceable in about three days now. (Going a bit slow with a grumpy ankle.) I blagged a nice big purple bag from the municipal in Castrojeriz but I'd filled it by the top of the hill. That lovely shelter at the top looked like it had been planted in a municipal tip but I couldn't shift much and its a long way to the dumster in Itero.

Coffee and a trash bag (any colour) seems a pretty good offer!

Tyrrek,

I like the cut off bottle idea for the small stuff. Anybody got any suggestions for picking up soggy tissues? My gloves got soaked this morning and its a cold, cold wind thats a-blowing.

Clean Camino one & all

 

[tyrrek]

Anybody got any suggestions for picking up soggy tissues? My gloves got soaked this morning and its a cold, cold wind thats a-blowing.

I'd avoid any kind of toilet tissue-related stuff if I were you, unless you're properly kitted out to deal with it. It's a bit frustrating, but I just left anything that looked like it could be toilet-related, even if it probably wasn't. That kind of stuff should gradually degrade. It's the plastics that last for ages.

I hope you're still having a buen Camino, despite the trash! :roll:

 

[fsam33]

The best way to deal with soggy, (or dry), tissues is to use your walking stick and poke it into the ground where it will degrade a lot more quickly and not be unsightly in the meantime.

 

[jemitch65]

Hello All: I don't mean to "overthink" this, but when my trashbag is full, where do I dispose of it? It would not be my intention to make one big pile of trash from many by leaving it along the roadside as another pilgrim suggested. Who would pick it up? Would an alburgue take it when you check in?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

this is a very good question. You can´t lug several kilos of trash with you to the next town, and you don´t want to just leave it out there to rot in the sun. Nobody (but me and Tyrrek) drives around the camino looking for opportunities to pick up trash bags (sorry to say.) Your average Spaniard is an expert in the Magical Thinking technique that says "This Item Vanishes from the Universe the Moment it Leaves My Hand." (His cousin is paid to pick up the litter in town, so littering to him is a family obligation.)

So it is a very good thing to pick up trash, but not a very good thing to leave the bag lying out in nature, in vain hope that someone will come along and take it away. Maybe you and some like-minded people can take turns carrying it into the next town? Or each carry a corner, walking together? Many picnic spots along the trail have bins you can use.

As for the question of where to take the litter once you hit town, every town and city I know along the camino has municipal bins/dumpsters. Just put it in there. No need to hand your kindly hospitalero a bag of trash along with your other goodies!

Reb.

 

[tyrrek]

Hello All: I don't mean to "overthink" this, but when my trashbag is full, where do I dispose of it? It would not be my intention to make one big pile of trash from many by leaving it along the roadside as another pilgrim suggested. Who would pick it up? Would an alburgue take it when you check in?

Yes, Reb is right. Villages will always have the big bins that you can leave trash bags in. It's important to be realistic about what you can do. You're walking with a backpack, so you can't spend all day diving into ditches to pick up the odd scrap of paper. What you can do is when you find a plastic bag or bottle see it as an opportunity to fill it with whatever catches your eye and drop it off at the next pueblo. A normal sized plastic bag will only hold a few bottles, but if these bottles have been filled with cigarette and chocolate packets you've done a lot of good work! Not too heavy to carry either. Buen Camino!

 

[Abbeydore]

Actually to put a light spin on it, the cows are the worst polluters, & deers too! took me over a week to even find a cow, but then they did appear. I did pick up a little rubbish, & there is a liitle still, but it didn't or doesn't to me warrant much discussion. Have had a most marvellous Camino, wonderful Albergue's & people. We are going to post candles to all whom we fell in love with, including one old farmer who gave me a hug. The Spanish are very lovely people & it was a privilege to walk for 2 weeks across their country.

 

[manifestdestinyLISA]

'This disappoints and saddens me. More so, because not only the Camino, but many other places too are vulnerable. Ugh a little common sense and common courtesy goes a long way.

How have conditions improved or worsened since this post?

Do you think the mess is worse right after summer crowds..say late Aug./Sept ? This is something I would have to prepare myself mentally for. Im no shrinking violet, and Ive been told that any pilgrimmage has its share of the good, ugly, true, beautiful and crazy-still seems we live in a civilized society...why so much CRAP so to speak?

Oy Vey

 

[tyrrek]

Do you think the mess is worse right after summer crowds..say late Aug./Sept ? This is something I would have to prepare myself mentally for. Im no shrinking violet...

Hi!

Yes it probably will be worse, unless people do something about it. As you've seen on this thread there are people walking now who are making things better. Don't be a shrinking violet!

Buen Camino!

 

[gregdedman]

Hi there everyone,

Its been a fair while since I was last on these forums and it wasn't until I got a message from a concerned pilgrim hoping for some further advice that I dropped back in to see how the post was going....WOW! Eight and a half thousand reads and a topic thoroughly discussed and acted upon!

I'm am truly humbled by those who have and are able to, spend their time picking up litter, informing others, encouraging all, supplying bags and believing in a solution.
It is a true testament to pilgrims and the Camino de Santiago, the magical way, that we can address and begin to turn a situation around to make it a better way for the person behind us.

Its truly fantastic!

 

[manifestdestinyLISA]

No Shrinking Violet

I also raise my right hand
and promise to act on common sense and courtesy to throw out my garbage properly on my Camino!

Thanks to Greg and all the pilgrims taking this to heart! I must admit I am particularly squeemish about crapola out& about...I pray this summer is not an especially crowded and hot one that piles up just in time for September Camino ...and that perhaps the "how to " greg posted encourage others to follow suit. Its also very encouraging that people are putting a face on the camino so there is sense of personal responsibility, shared accountability and unified spirit & respect & gratitude-especially by the veterans on this forum.

 

[Asequeira10]

I start my pilgrimmage from St Jean on 7th June and will be coming off in Burgos most probably and I also vow to pick up a bag of rubbish daily, This is great! well done to everyone who pledges and to all who have contributed. I live in the beautiful english lake district and have often taken my daughter down to the shores of Windermere to pick up rubbish, i dont like getting mad but often i do at certain touriists who dont care about throwing rubbish on the ground when there are bins all around. with love with love with love (;{D by the way my little picture is of a very happy spanish man with a curly tash and a sombrero.

Buen Camino All and my name is Ana x

 

[tyrrek]

I start my pilgrimmage from St Jean on 7th June and will be coming off in Burgos most probably and I also vow to pick up a bag of rubbish daily

Good to have you on board Ana!

I think the part of the Camino you'll be walking is so important, because if other pilgrims see what you're doing it could affect their behaviour for the rest of the Way. You're both collecting litter and stopping it being dropped in the first place.

Buen Camino!

 

[rgraybill44]

The chain supermarkets supply plastic gloves for customers to use when selecting fruits and vegetables. If one isn't picking up too much trash, these can protect one's hands from God-only-knows what germs may lurk on discarded tissues.
I spent the first 400 k cursing litterbugs, then ran across Ghandi's advice to "be the change you want the world to make." Then I started picking up a bag of litter each day. So now I can spend my time feeling pleased with myself rather than despising others.

 

[manifestdestinyLISA]

How is the garbage & Crapola situation these days? Any chang

Just wondering since no one has posted since May..whats the litter report on the Frances? :?: :|

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Not so bad as last year, at least not in "my" section. Could be due to the kind souls who took the pick-up pledge!
I may well be walking the Sarria-Santiago bit in the coming weeks (always the worst!), I will let you know how things are shaping-up out there.

Reb

 

[wayfarer]

I walked the camino starting in April 20th and from reading this thread things have not changed much. Litter, excrement and grafitti are still all along the way. I can understand someone being short taken, it has happened to me, but you pick a spot off the trail and leave no trace behind. I was on the way from Santiago to Finisterra on a mountain trail and a mature "gentleman" dropped his pants in front of me at the side of the trail and proceeded to do his business, there was woodland all around. It was not one of the most memorable views along the way I can tell you. As for grafitti, I cannot understand the mentality of people who would bring spray cans and wide tipped markers on the camino, it just beggars belief. An answer to some of the grafitti messages would be if there was a message board cited in the hamlets and towns along the way. There is no excuse for the litter, if you bring it in bring it out.

 

[whariwharangi]

To the list of equipment needed: One small garden spade suitable for digging cat holes.

On trails where fire is a problem I carry used toilet paper (which cannot be burned in dry conditions) in a ziploc to be emptied at the next toilet. The ziploc bag tactic should work for anybody on the camino.

 

[ostend]

I just returned from walking the first half of the French Route. It was generally a pleasant and rewarding experience, but I was surprised by the almost complete lack of toilet facilities along the route. A route that's a thousand years old with thousands of walkers each year, and no facilities? Every town and city derives significant revenue from hospitality services, and yet no facilities? It was obvious that most private property owners resent the untidy deposits left by walkers. The barbed wire fences and gates keep walkers out rather than keep sheep in. Any unguarded bush or hedge turns into a public latrine. There's the obvious sanitary concern, but also a personal safety issue. I'm sure many people, especially women, avoid drinking water to avoid the inevitable search for cover.

A bit of a rant, but Spain...what's up with that!? There's a modern invention called porta-potty.

 

[Tia Valeria]

..........
A bit of a rant, but Spain...what's up with that!? There's a modern invention called porta-potty.

Several things come to my mind:-

Who pays for it? cleans or removes it?
If you go into cafés/bars etc there are usually toilets for customers. Buy a coffee or a fresh orange and then ask to use the facilities. That helps the economy and solves the rubbish problem.

Too little to drink is an irritant

My own suggested solution would be the occasional 'long-drop' placed where there are no other facilities at all. Maybe dug in the places that are defaced by litter.
Approx 20ft deep (flies only go down 10ft), wooden box for a seat, with a hole but no lid; 3 sided shelter and pitch roof, simple half door for privacy. With the numbers on the Camino it would need renewing each year or so, ie dig new hole and move the shelter etc to it. The soil dug out infills the old hole. Simple to dig with a 'pala viscacha' (special hole digging bore).
Again who pays for them? The landowners might be willing to collaborate with the various Amigos organisations with these. How could pilgrims contribute financially? They would certainly need their own toilet paper, not have it provided.
Finally - Long term the old holes provide good fertile patches of soil

 

[sillydoll]

My own suggested solution would be the occasional 'long-drop' placed where there are no other facilities at all. Maybe dug in the places that are defaced by litter.

You and I are on the same page! I sent a long report on the state of the Camino trails as regards litter and human waste to Ivar and to Johnnie Walker a few months ago suggesting that long-drops be erected on the Camino where pilgrims are already defecating in clearings and behind hedges.

I also wrote about it in April this year on my blog -
http://amawalker.blogspot.com/2012/08/t ... t-can.html

Most nature trails - and many wilderness trails - in the world use these with great success and I see no reason why they can't be used in Spain.

 

[wayfarer]

My own suggested solution would be the occasional 'long-drop' placed where there are no other facilities at all. Maybe dug in the places that are defaced by litter.

You and I are on the same page! I sent a long report on the state of the Camino trails as regards litter and human waste to Ivar and to Johnnie Walker a few months ago suggesting that long-drops be erected on the Camino where pilgrims are already defecating in clearings and behind hedges.

I also wrote about it in April this year on my blog -
http://amawalker.blogspot.com/2012/08/t ... t-can.html

Most nature trails - and many wilderness trails - in the world use these with great success and I see no reason why they can't be used in Spain.

Excellent blog sillydoll.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

FYI: I brought up the long-drop idea at a gathering of camino bigwigs, and was told neurotic germ-phobic foreigners should clean up their own countries´messes before they start insisting on "improvements" to the Camino de Santiago in Spain. :shock:

Renshaw stopped here yesterday and told me the trails around Carrion de los Condes are in a shocking state. I hope to repeat the Palencia-wide camino trash pickup again in early December. Anyone else want to put some muscle behind their neurosis and make it happen?

Tyrrek will testify: It´s a heckuvva lot faster and easier with two or three people working, and it will give you an entirely new way to look at the camino.

Reb

 

[tyrrek]

Tyrrek will testify: It´s a heckuvva lot faster and easier with two or three people working, and it will give you an entirely new way to look at the camino.

Testimony duly given. Morning mists along the Meseta with litter-picker in one hand and South African Confraternity bag in the other. I had a great time.

It gives us a new way to look at the Camino, but also makes passing pilgrims look at it a bit differently too. And locals seemed impressed when they realised Reb wasn't stealing their mushrooms. :lol:

p.s. Someone thought we were convicts doing some kind of community work as well.

Buen Camino!

 

[sillydoll]

The South African CSJ have been handing out green garbage bags to their members since 2008. I give all our walkers in amaWalkers Camino groups.
This is all we can do. Its like putting a Band-Aid on volcano.

 

[tyrrek]

I'll try to get over again this year if I can, Reb. Keep us updated with possible dates etc. Buen Camino!

 

[grayland]

We have used the South African green trash pick up bags...but as Sil says...it will take much more to stem the flow of trash. We can always hope :shock:
Here is a picture of Ellie filling a South African sack just past Portomarin in 2010.

 

[tyrrek]

Viva the South African CSJ! We should send more photos to show where their errant bags end up; ie. in a skip and full of litter. That way people donating money will see that it's being well used, even if it isn't necessarily by South Africans.

There are some places where it feels like you're fighting back the tide, but others where you can walk for miles and leave it spotless!

Buen Camino!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

First week of December, Itero de la Vega to San Nicolas del Real Camino. Bring your own litter-grabbing device!

I will use my car, provide meals and lodging for those who will help. Upstanding people contributed money for meals and materials last year, and all such gestures of generosity and support will again be cheerfully accepted (unless they are in kitten form.) There´s a donation facility on my blog if you are so moved.

Better yet, come over and get your back into it!

Reb.

 

[tyrrek]

I think I'm up for it. As Reb described to me last year, it's a great way to celebrate advent. 'Make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight!'' (Matt. 3:3).

Buenos Caminos!

 

[Icacos]

Bring your own litter-grabbing device!

I'm planning this trek starting in SJPP in April and will be more than willing to help with the litter picking (it wouldn't be a first time for me) but I don't really want to pack my own device from home. Is it possible for the same people at the albergues who provide the plastic bags to also have litter-picker devices available for purchase? Or does some other easily accessible place have them for sale? I would be happy to buy one - at a reasonable price. I don't think my back would last very long if I were constantly bending down to pick up trash while wearing a heavy backpack.

Is it possible to have these devices available for purchase and, if so, where?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I have only ever seen one in Spain, and it was at a farm & garden store in Sahagun (which we have dubbed "Chainsaw Boutique.") It was very dusty, it´s been there for a while without a buyer. I intend to buy it if it is still there when I get back again.

Reb.

 

[tyrrek]

Bring your own litter-grabbing device!

I'm planning this trek starting in SJPP in April and will be more than willing to help with the litter picking (it wouldn't be a first time for me) but I don't really want to pack my own device from home. Is it possible for the same people at the albergues who provide the plastic bags to also have litter-picker devices available for purchase? Or does some other easily accessible place have them for sale? I would be happy to buy one - at a reasonable price. I don't think my back would last very long if I were constantly bending down to pick up trash while wearing a heavy backpack.

Is it possible to have these devices available for purchase and, if so, where?

Hi charlesx.

I'll discuss this with Rebekah next month. I know albergues often have spare plastic bags, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the litter pickers into albergues. You're right that while walking with a backpack you can't spend all day diving in and out of ditches etc. (Not all day, every day anyway! )

I have just bought a new litter picker in the UK for our Palencia clear-up in December, and it's a cheap device. (£4/$US6/5 Euros approx).

I mentioned previously that just by picking up an errant plastic bottle and cutting off the top with a penknife you can pick up any chocolate wrappers and cigarette packets etc that catch your eye along the way, fill the bottle then dump it in the next village. Any contribution is a positive one.

I'll get back to you. Buen Camino!

 

[unadara]

I saw an Asian girl picking up every day (when I saw her) with a bbq tools! long handled fork or tongs, she was amazing, I felt bad that all I did to contribute was Thank her Many times,she went in and up ditches too.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I like that girl. God bless her!

 

[cajunun]

I returned about one month ago from walking SJPDP to Santiago - the amount of litter, graffiti and evidence of human toiletting was astounding! I also noticed that some pilgrims must have felt OK about leaving what I would consider rubbish (old luggage tags, old boots, bottles, etc) as an 'offer' at some makeshift crosses, etc. found along the way. Into Galicia, however, the rubbish was noticeably less due, I think, to rubbish bins about every km or so. Elsewhere along the camino, rubbish bins and toilets were very few and far between on the actual path. Many pilgrims need to take much more responsibility for taking care of the environment - a friend thought that taking an oath when they collect their credential (committing not to rubbish the way) would be a good start; another suggestion by a pilgrim along the way was to pay a very small tax ($10) when collecting your credential which could then be used to fund either more maintenance or more facilities. Having said all this, the experience was fantastic and I intend to walk the way again in the future.

 

[Terrri]

cajunun, I saw what you were talking about regarding people leaving "offerings" of garbage at monuments. I haven't walked the camino yet but saw photos people took standing in front of these "offerings" and wondered why they took their photo in front of a bunch of garbage. I even thought of clearing some of it away if no one was watching. Anywhere I go I pick up garbage (I don't go out of my way) that is in my path and assumed after seeing these photos that the camino would be no different.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Many pilgrims seem to like to litter the tops of route markers with cones, stones, and photos. They seem to think it is some sort of tradition.

 

[tyrrek]

Many pilgrims seem to like to litter the tops of route markers with cones, stones, and photos. They seem to think it is some sort of tradition.

I don't mind the cones, stones and photos so much. We sometimes feel the need to leave something of ourselves in important places. As long as it's not all in a plastic bag etc!!!

I don't like the inane pilgrim graffiti, tags etc, but don't mind the local political stuff. That tells you something about the place you're walking through. Road signs that have been 'altered' to reflect the local dialect etc. are fine in my book. It's not my country.

Buen Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

We sometimes feel the need to leave something of ourselves in important places.

That is precisely what the tagger is doing with his graffiti -- "I was here, and that is important to me."

 

[tyrrek]

We sometimes feel the need to leave something of ourselves in important places.

That is precisely what the tagger is doing with his graffiti -- "I was here, and that is important to me."

Yes, but as I said, that's just inane. I'm happy for people to leave something thoughtful that enriches the place rather than something that spoils it. It's all subjective, of course, but for example, someone leaving a photo/cross/stone etc that other people can enjoy, reflect upon and understand is great, and I certainly wouldn't remove it when litter picking.

Buen Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I'm happy for people to leave something thoughtful that enriches the place rather than something that spoils it. It's all subjective, of course,

A piece of road gravel placed on a mojone "enriches" the place? Yes, it is subjective. The tagger prefers his can of spray paint; a pilgrim prefers his magic marker; and the stacker likes his gravel. However, they all says the same thing: I was here. There isn't any real symbolism, just ego.

 

[tyrrek]

I'm happy for people to leave something thoughtful that enriches the place rather than something that spoils it. It's all subjective, of course,

A piece of road gravel placed on a mojone "enriches" the place? Yes, it is subjective. The tagger prefers his can of spray paint; a pilgrim prefers his magic marker; and the stacker likes his gravel. However, they all says the same thing: I was here. There isn't any real symbolism, just ego.

We'll probably disagree as usual. I like seeing stones placed on waymarkers, and like to think that it's been placed with some reason. Perhaps someone has committed to doing so as a way of remembering their purpose for walking. Although in some ways it could be seen as selfish, it does no real harm and reminds me of the many reasons people may have for having been there, and the people being prayed for. In that sense I find it enriching. Maybe I'm just naive.

Buen Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Although in some ways it could be seen as selfish, it does no real harm

Like a dog raising a leg on a lamp post! It is marking its territory. There are a lot of religious admonitions against making prayer a public demonstration; one prays privately since public prayer is for the observer, not the one praying. The pebble is for the next pilgrim, not the one leaving it. The magic marker is just more permanent, but it too fades with time. I can see the symbolism of bringing a rock from home for the Iron Cross and adding it to the anonymous aggregation, but I see picking up a piece of road gravel and putting it on a mojone as a simple act of egotism. I am not a fan of the nationalistic symbol being left at the Cruz de Ferro. That, too, strikes me as an egotistical act of tribalism not in keeping with the tradition. :wink:

 

[tyrrek]

Like a dog raising a leg on a lamp post! It is marking its territory.

Well, just knock all the stones off the next time you're there, then! I'm sure everyone will thank you for such a noble deed. Buen Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

just knock all the stones off

Would I have to take on the various burdens?

 

[tyrrek]

just knock all the stones off

Would I have to take on the various burdens?

Ooh! That Falcon's got a right dirty mind! Buen Camino amigo!

 

[gregdedman]

Any updates on the state of the Camino Frances this winter?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

IMHO, for the scant number of pilgs out there, there´s an awful lot of visible trash. I pick up a carrier bag-ful every couple of days between Terradillos and St. Nicolas -- wrappers, bottles, and cans. I used to think Winter pilgrims were a more thoughtful grade, but that may be changing. Or I just have eagle-eyes for litter!

 

[William Marques]

It may not just be pilgrims. The amount of trash I have to pick is from the country road at the top of our drive each month amazes me. Who are these people who think they can just drop their cans and coffee mugs anywhere

 

[Silvester]

To the list of equipment needed: One small garden spade suitable for digging cat holes.

On trails where fire is a problem I carry used toilet paper (which cannot be burned in dry conditions) in a ziploc to be emptied at the next toilet. The ziploc bag tactic should work for anybody on the camino.

I believe in "leave nothing but footprints" and in NZ a boot, rock or twig is usually enough to cover your traces - including yellow snow! For hygiene I usually carry a sanitary wipe in a ziplock bag inside a ziplock bag of toilet paper for handwashing and dispose of it each evening. I've never had any gastro troubles either. What is your spade made of? How heavy is it? How well does it work on the different soil types? I guess it needs its own ziplock as well.
Mary

 

[whariwharangi]

I believe in "leave nothing but footprints" and in NZ a boot, rock or twig is usually enough to cover your traces - including yellow snow! For hygiene I usually carry a sanitary wipe in a ziplock bag inside a ziplock bag of toilet paper for handwashing and dispose of it each evening. I've never had any gastro troubles either. What is your spade made of? How heavy is it? How well does it work on the different soil types? I guess it needs its own ziplock as well.
Mary

It is made of steel with wood handle. It is too heavy and I abandoned it after two weeks as I had no need of it. It is a garden trowel and works on any soil not packed too tightly. No it did not need a ziplock. On hiking trips ... where it used to get used daily (this was before it was abandoned on the camino) ... it did not come into contact with anything but dirt. A splash of water from the jug used to put out the flaming TP was usually enough to clean it.

 

[lynnejohn]

There's this lightweight one:
http://www.rei.com/product/799009/gsi-outdoors-cathole-sanitation-trowel

 

[gregdedman]

Looks like even pristine wilderness trails are witnessing this too. Surely, hikers going into such deep backcountry are more educated, or is it the amateur brigade?
http://www.pcta.org/2014/time-action-taking-care-poop-16564/

 

[Tincatinker]

Sadly there ain't no amateurs anymore. Watch a couple of satellite channels, buy a couple of hiker mags, pop down to Cotswold or REI and you're a wilderness expert. Just one without the training, the etiquette or the experience to behave appropriately in the woods. Instead we behave like bears in town.

My dog has the decency to head off-trail for a crap (means i have to head off-trail with a baggie, but hey) but I guess that the misguided soul that fly-tipped the junk she cut her paw on just wasn't brought up the same.

Reb, good on you - keep filling those bags. Every litter picker out there, don't give up, don't stop. It doesn't matter if we "win" or not, we still make a difference. Every walk, every day, checklist - door key, small change, poo bags, litter bag, smile...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Just for confession´s sake: I don´t pick up after my dogs´ doo.
I have six dogs. Two are big greyhounds, one is a Mastiff, and we live in a really wide-open farm area already redolent of animal dung.
(People doo is another thing entirely, however.)
That is my rationale, and I´m stickin to it.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Thank you all for this discussion. Being that I have not figured out how to get the time off to do the camino Francis. I know that when I do it will be one of respect. This walk draws me like nothing I have ever felt. Thank you all for being good caretakers & reminding those of us following you what we can do to show respect for the walk.

Keith

 

[gregdedman]

Five years after writing this post, I am still humbled by the reports of litter pickers and pledges. I walk the Camino Portuguese in three weeks time with three other and they have no idea that that I'll be handing them a bag on the first morning and be asking them to fill it!

This will of course be an ongoing battle but we fight the good fight

I hope that this post jumps to the top of the forums for a few days as a reminder to those setting out this summer to 'pack it out'.

Buen Camino

 

[wayfarer]

Well said Greg, enjoy your Camino.
Bom Caminho.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

You may want to bring a few pairs of latex gloves or a thin dogs poop bag to put over your hands so your friends afe more enclines to cooperates. Bravo for your idea and the exemple you will be eating foe those who see meet you en route and read yoir post.

 

[Russnikovsky]

OK, I'm going to be a bit controversial here but there are so many different people on the camino that all kinds of opinions exist.

Firstly I'm with you on the litter I have no idea why people drop litter, some people are idiots but they do it everywhere not just on the camino. I would be happy to pick some up on the way and have done often enough. Don't just moan about it and photograph it walk over there pick it up and carry it to the next bin.

Secondly the graffiti - I LOVED the graffiti on the camino. Yes I did seriously. Honestly it makes the journey special for me, I love reading all the little messages, I've got some photos or some stunning art work or even little funny saying or sketches. I even like the tagging, it's nice following people - oh look Carlos has been here again etc... I think the camino would be a poorer place without the graffiti - i'm sorry you don't feel that way but people have been leaving graffiti for much longer than the camino existed and it seems to be a natural human urge to leave a mark of oneself behind. I also like how it changes en-route, some of the writing on the back of the toilet door in the albergue in Fisterra was the most profound philosophy I've ever read, truly, my life would've been different if it wasn't there!!

Now to the most unpleasant the toilet roll. Again controversially.. on a purely personal note the toilet roll is kinda useful. Let's face it people are going to go to the toilet en-route. The only good thing about the unpleasant and unsightly toilet roll is that at least it lets you know WHERE they've done it! As someone who not only likes to sit by the trail but occasionally wild camp by it I would say the toilet roll piles are an excellent indicator of where NOT to go. It would be a whole lot harder to know where to plonk myself down if the toilet roll patches were missing. I agree they're horrible but if the alternative is sniffing the ground and checking whether I've sat down or slept on something damp and smelly then I'm not that keen on that either. Of course in an ideal world we'd all be burying it or taking it away but this is not an ideal world...

Also before you vilify me, i've always cleaned up after myself, often cleaning the camping spot of other people's litter as well but I'm not going to promise I haven't graffitied!

Yours is the most intelligent statement on this thread, thank you for taking the courage and time to write it.

 

[RJM]

Yours is the most intelligent statement on this thread, thank you for taking the courage and time to write it.

"Most intelligent statement"? "Courage" Ummm, nah.....
No more or less an "intelligent statement" than the other ones. Just her opinion. Also she seems to admit or elude to contributing to the graffiti problem on the Camino. I know this forum has rules on personally insulting others on posts, so I'll bite my tongue. Besides, not much more you have to say about someone who discovered the "most profound philosophy" she ever read on the door of a toilet in an albergue.
While on the subject of opinions on trash, human fecal matter and illegal and unsightly graffiti on and along the Camino, it all sucks and is the product of rudeness, egocentric and childish behavior. That's just my opinion, BTW. Agree or disagree with me, I don't give a.....well, you can find that last word on the door of a public toilet somewhere I am sure.

 

[drmokc]

I see this thread was started some years ago - has the situation improved somewhat? I have dreamt of walking the Camino for a number of years since some friends came back with glowing experiences - this was in the 1990's. I finally have enough time away from job responsibilities to actually walk the entire Camino Frances, but the idea that this has become so carelessly treated and commercialized is turning me off of the idea.