"Ancien chemin de Saint-Jacques"?

[Camino2014]

Hello all.

In John Brierley's guide, a so-called "Ancien chemin de Saint-Jacques" is mentioned as passing through the villages of Caro and Saint-Michel before connecting with the main Camino Frances at Etchebestea (outside of St.-Jean-Pied-de-Port).

I read that pilgrims used to traverse through Saint-Michel before St.-Jean was built in the 13th century, but have heard no further mentioning of this route. Brierley's book fails to mention anything more about it as well.

Does anyone have anymore information about this route? If so, please share! I am very interested in it!

-Camino2014

 

[Peter Robins]

this is based on the Roman road, the exact line of which no longer exists. The waystations/mansiones on this were Imus Pyreneus (foot of the Pyrenees) - the original St Jean (now St Jean le Vieux), where there is a small museum http://www.tourisme64.com/patrimoine-cu ... 0001M.html - and Summus Pyreneus (top of the Pyrenees). There's some debate over where this latter was exactly, but somewhere in the Lepoeder/Ibaneta area.

The Codex Calixtinus mentions St Jean and St Michel, where the hospital of St Vincent de Cize was founded in the 11th century and, like the hospital at Ibaneta, run by the Benedictines of Leyre.

IGN 1:25000 maps mark the route you describe with the stylised shell, which implies it's now waymarked; they also mark a route south from St Michel, joining the GR65 near the Vierge d'Orisson.

 

[zammy]

The trail on the IGN maps is very hard to find. the marking is no longer there and the trail itslef maight cross private owned lands, blocked by vegetation or fences.
sadly I must say that the old trail is more beautiful, it crosses towns much less then the present trail.
They say that the old trail had been "relocated" on demand of small villages and cities mayors who saw the new trail as an opportunity for more income. Maybe that's why we walk on so much asphalt...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I think this might be the eastern end of the "camino viejo" or "camino olvidado" that shows up on a few maps. (which I cannot locate this minute :evil: ) Have a look at this blog, of the association that is waymarking it -- starting nowadays in Bilbao and/or Pamplona One of them may be able to help you with more info:

http://elcaminoolvidado.blogspot.com.es/

There´s also a discussion and maps here on Ivar´s site, under "Camino VIejo." I hope to walk this path, soon as I find a house-sitter.

Rebekah de Moratinos

 

[Peter Robins]

The trail on the IGN maps is very hard to find. the marking is no longer there and the trail itslef maight cross private owned lands, blocked by vegetation or fences.

are we talking about the same route? The route Camino2014 refers to - at least as shown on IGN - is entirely on roads, albeit minor roads.

 

[Peter Robins]

btw, I just looked in the old Everest guide, which mentions this very briefly. The 1998 English translation says: "you reach ... the village of Untto, meeting up with the path from St Jean le Vieux and St Michel Pied de Port".

My previous post probably wasn't clear, but the 'ancien chemin' here refers to the pre-13th-century route. The Roman road Bordeaux-Pamplona was more or less the route still used at the time of the Codex Calixtinus (mid-12th). When St Jean PdP was founded in the late 12th when this area became part of Navarre, the road via Valcarlos was secured, and most pilgrims seem to have gone that way, or at least the recorded ones did, though Cassini in the late 18th does mark the Bentarte route as "Grande Route d'Espagne".

There used to be quite a good page on the Roman road in the area on the rencesvals.com site, but this seems to have disappeared. Much of it's speculation though, as AFAIA there have been no archaeological discoveries apart from at St Jean le Vieux.