For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
There is or was a restaurant of this name, see https://www.turismo.gal/recurso/-/detalle/14185/die-zwei-deutsch?langId=en_US&tp=24&ctre=142I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
And "Noch ein bier bitte". No, seriously, I speak German, but I suppose that the time has come (and gone) for both German and French. Now it is English and Spanish. And Mandarin of course.There is or was a restaurant of this name, see https://www.turismo.gal/recurso/-/detalle/14185/die-zwei-deutsch?langId=en_US&tp=24&ctre=142
It is the same place as Los Dos Alemanes but presumably you already know this.
Anyway, the only German that I can remember is "ein bier bitte"
A fan of The League of Gentlemen.-- Alles klar?
“The name isn't to do with 'good grammatical German' - it is a name that is an advertising sign, designed to be 'legible' to passing pilgrims of many nationalities - just about anyone can see it and hear "The Two Germans" in their head -
Think President Kennedy in Berlin saying "Ich bien ein Berliner" to demonstrate he supported West Berlin .. but in good German that actually means "I am a jam doughnut with vanilla icing" - all is wel
Ich habe nür schuldeutsch... but I wouldn't be bothered trying to go to the source. It is written in Spanish. The easily understood interpretation is The two Germans. Would that be good enough?I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
That's a good article in the English Wikipedia. The German Wikipedia calls it a "misunderstanding in the English-speaking world". No German speaker would ever misunderstand Kennedy's words about being ein Berliner. In fact, in the given context, it is much better to say "Ich bin ein Berliner" than "Ich bin Berliner"!The Kennedy Berliner/doughnut is an urban legend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#"I_am_a_doughnut"_urban_legend
You visited Quedlinburg?. And there is at least one inn/restaurant in Germany that is called "Zum Roland" (literally: To the Roland).
View attachment 113872
Grammatically, it should read die zwei Deutschen because of the definite plural article. If you say “They are two germans” then you would write: Sie sind zwei Deutsche (no article).My German is rather basic, but I would have said Die Zwei Deutsche
Don't ask me why in terms of grammar.
I barely understand English Grammar!
But If I was trying to say the Two Germans, I would say that.
@SYates will know
My german teacher explained that Berliners did understand in context, exactly what JFK meant. However, according to my German teacher in 1963, the most precise man I ever met, Kennedy did make a grammatical error.That's a good article in the English Wikipedia. The German Wikipedia calls it a "misunderstanding in the English-speaking world". No German speaker would ever misunderstand Kennedy's words about being ein Berliner. In fact, in the given context, it is much better to say "Ich bin ein Berliner" than "Ich bin Berliner"!
And the funny thing is - I learnt this only recently in a different context from a German from an East German area - that the people in and round Berlin don't even call a doughnut "ein Berliner", they call it "ein Pfannkuchen", which causes some hilarity or consternation among German speakers from other areas for whom a Pfannkuchen is a pancake. And just in case you wonder now: the people in and around Berlin call a pancake "ein Eierkuchen" (an egg cake).
How old is that myth now? 58 years and it's still alive and kicking.
Well the definite article is often used in front of first names, right?In any case, a proper German Gasthof would have a pretty sign made from iron and it would say: "Zu den Zwei Deutschen". Just like the many signs you can see that say "Zum Goldenen Löwen", "Zum Ochsen" or "Zur Krone". And there is at least one inn/restaurant in Germany that is called "Zum Roland" (literally: To the Roland).
View attachment 113872
Yes, but not in written standard German. It is used in spoken German in this way but it also depends on the area. It is more common in the south than in the north.Well the definite article is often used in front of first names, right?
A fan of The League of Gentlemen.Thanks to all respondents. I like the idea that "Die Zwei Deutsch would be used so that most people could understand it, but knowing how meticulous Germans stereotypically are, could a true German put up a sign that was grammatically wrong? But if "Die Zwei Deutsch" can be understood, why not "Die Zwei Deutschen"? I also like the idea of a typo. A HUGE typo. Perhaps they had the blank sign laid out and started putting the letters on, only to find that the letters were too big or that the sign was too small. Never mind, "DIE ZWEI DEUTSCH" will do, no one will notice.
The Kennedy Berliner/doughnut is an urban legend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#"I_am_a_doughnut"_urban_legend -- that's what he said, but it didn't mean a doughnut to a Berliner. But German is a tricky language. There is a story about a translator swearing (internally) as he waited for a German speaker to get to the end of a long subordinate clause so that he could translate the verb.
And what is your opinion on Ich bin ein Berliner vs Ich bin Berliner? I am intrigued by your forum name. I admit that I had to google where Jena is. Ok, not where I thought. So, bist du Anhalter oder ein Anhalter oder der Anhalter?both variations would be OK
I speak german as well, I was born in Austria.It would be The 2 Germans. Simple, why make it complicated.I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
The first Berliner is something alike a doughnut, the second the guy from Berlin. But then, when a non-native speaker would use that phrase, it's unlikely that people would think him to be insane and believing to be a doughnut... btw, the german wikipedia has an article about this piece of the kennedy speech leading to said misunderstanding to be an urban legend ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Missverständnis_im_englischsprachigen_Raum )And what is your opinion on Ich bin ein Berliner vs Ich bin Berliner? I am intrigued by your forum name. I admit that I had to google where Jena is. Ok, not where I thought. So, bist du Anhalter oder ein Anhalter oder der Anhalter?
Well, isn't that interesting? Could it be that German grammar allows to express a sense of belonging to a place or a sense of identification with its people that is difficult to explain to non-native speakers? You can try it with other sentences, too: Ich bin Spanier vs Ich bin ein Spanier. Both sentences are grammatically correct but there is a nuance as to what they express.I'd also say "Ich bin ein Jenaer", but then "Ich bin Stuttgarter", "Ich bin Hamburger" and i can't tell why (btw, when you are 2nd generation from Jena you call yourself "Jenenser"....)
Yes. And in that nub is the reason why all languages are precious and also why understanding multiple languages expands our intellect.Well, isn't that interesting? Could it be that German grammar allows to express a sense of belonging to a place or a sense of identification with its people that is difficult to explain to non-native speakers? You can try it with other sentences, too: Ich bin Spanier vs Ich bin ein Spanier. Both sentences are grammatically correct but there is a nuance as to what they express.
Or, another possibility is that the person who made the sign wasn’t German-speaking themselves? I’m thinking of when I lived in Wuhan in China, and my husband walked to his office every morning. One day he saw a new restaurant putting their sign up in English letters, but it said “restrant”, so he went inside and wrote the correct spelling for them. Next day when he walked past the sign was spelt correctly.Can you explain, please?
You are right, you wouldn't use the indefinite article in German when stating what country, region or city you are from.Ich bin Amerikanerin!…..Not…Ich bin “eine” Amerikanerin.
I am completely "lost in translation" with this thread. As for the place, I did not notice the hostal, but I did these two restaurants. as I was arriving after some weeks in Berlin. Seemed to me a living proof of the growing Germanic presence in the Camino - and a smart business idea.That's rather ... intriguing.
I don't know whether the photos show the same place. Both photos were taken by pilgrims in the Melide-Arzua-Santiago region.
View attachment 113852
I heard rumours that when another recent president held a speech in Hamburg, he said "Ich bin ein Hamburger!"
Anyway, am not a native German speaker, but could it be that this is dialect, to say it this way - Die Zwei Deutsch? Where are these 2 German guys from?
Honestly, though, it probably is just a sign maker typo (done on purpose) because it will get every German speaker that walks by to come in and complain about it being incorrect. Keeps your Albergue full.
Now, I want to stop by and stay there.
Good reminder!Google Translate is a tool and not a standard.
Was it a Big Mac?I heard rumours that when another recent president held a speech in Hamburg, he said "Ich bin ein Hamburger!"
Die beiden Deutschen Männer —— the two German menwell, I'll give it a go. First off, beide(n) means both, zwei means two. In German, the endings of definite and indefinite articles, and of adjectives change depending on case, gender, and number. (Similar to Latin or Ancient Greek, but simpler.) So, " a german man" could be stated at "Ein Deutscher" . "Die beiden deutschen Männer" would be roughly translated as "Both of the two German men." When using a definite article (here "Die"), the adjective that follows, shifts its ending to "en" showing that the noun will be plural. And then of course, the noun itself "Männer" is the plural of Mann. (The vowel changing much as it does in English.) The word grouping "Zwei deutsche Männer" doesn't have an article (or maybe zwei acts as a indefinite article?), so the adjective has different rules, showing that the noun it's connected to is nominative plural. "Die zwei Deutch" doesn't make much sense to me. -- Alles klar?
It was a Big Mouth...Was it a Big Mac?
How do you know that they were men?Die beiden Deutschen Männer —— the two German men
Yes. If the discussion of the topic bores people, perhaps they can strike up another conversation elsewhere.Obviously, lots of people on here have run out of conversation ideas
For me, it is still a bit of a mystery how native speakers learn the ins and outs of their language and how they can detect these fine nuances without having been taught rules for most of it, while it is sometimes so difficult for non-native speakers to fully comprehend structure and meaning. Language is more than vocabulary and grammar.Yes. And in that nub is the reason why all languages are precious and also why understanding multiple languages expands our intellect.
This is why there is the good advice to be careful and choose wisely when you want to make a joke or swear in a foreign language - or believe that someone unwittingly made a joke who hasn't
Language is more than vocabulary and grammar.
In English (rather than German) there is this site within Wikipedia (of course):In addition to Berliner, Frankfurter and Hamburger, there are also Amerikaner (a cookie, not from America), Florentiner (another cookie, not from Florence), Wiener (a sausage, not from Vienna) and Kissinger (a croissant, not from the town of Bad Kissingen). If someone knows of a website where all these German names known for food and suitable for jokes, are listed, please let me know.
Gummischuhe ! And all German nouns are capitalizedThe only sentence I recall from my 5th grade German class is, "Ich kann meine gummischue nicht finden".
EDIT- I don't think it will serve me well unless it is a very rainy day in Germany if I should visit. It's a country in the EU that I have never yet visited....maybe one day.
Oops, shame on me! We do not capitalize galoshes and overshoes unless they begin a sentence.Gummischuhe ! And all German nouns are capitalized
@Yoyo has given an excellent explanation, see in that context, the use of the article is correct.Ich bin Amerikanerin!…..Not…Ich bin “eine” Amerikanerin.
Die beiden Deutschen Männer —— the two German men
Beiden does mean “both” in German. But it also i signifies two as it does in English.And I always thought Beiden meant both.
Shows how good I am at languages
I think you could also translate it as "Both of the German men", -- I was trying to think how (in English) "Two German Men" and "Both German Men" and "Both of the German men" are different. It's subtle, if the difference exists at all. Using the word Both in English infers that there are two that have been identified and are now being referred to. Using the genitive (Both of the German Men) seems to be the same as "Both German Men" or "Both the German Men". Also using both means that there are only two German men, whereas using only two doesn't limit the number of german men-- saying simply "two German men", could mean "Two of the german men". There could be 40 german men, and we are discussing two.Beiden does mean “both” in German. But it also i signifies two as it does in English.
In English one would not translate Die beiden Deutschen Maenner into The both German men…but The two German men. https://context.reverso.net/translation/german-english/beiden+Männer
Yes, often one would would take cues from the context aswell.I think you could also translate it as "Both of the German men", -- I was trying to think how (in English) "Two German Men" and "Both German Men" and "Both of the German men" are different. It's subtle, if the difference exists at all. Using the word Both in English infers that there are two that have been identified and are now being referred to. Using the genitive (Both of the German Men) seems to be the same as "Both German Men" or "Both the German Men". Also using both means that there are only two German men, whereas using only two doesn't limit the number of german men-- saying simply "two German men", could mean "Two of the german men". There could be 40 german men, and we are discussing two.
Well explained and perfectly correct.You are right, you wouldn't use the indefinite article in German when stating what country, region or city you are from.
But Kennedy wasn't referring to his place of origin. He wanted to express his solidarity with the people of West Berlin, meaning "I feel as if I were one of you". In that context, the use of the article is correct.
'Both' means 'beide', 'die Beiden' means 'the two' (note capizalization)
'Beide sind Deutsche' = 'both are German',
'die Beiden sind Deutsche' = the two are Germans
'Beide sind Deutsche' = 'both are Germans
It seems that double meanings of words (Berliner, Hamburger et al) are particularly funny for English speakers, in German not so much, simply because the actual meaning derives from context.
Das Gleiche – I would use 'Identical' or 'equal' but unlike in German, 'same' would define itself by context anywayAs a native German speaker, I would say that the sign should say "Die beiden Deutschen"
It should point to a special feature, namely that two Germans have opened a restaurant here together., not Spaniards.
A sign with "Die zwei Deutschen" would also be okay. In this context, we wouldn´t take it too seriously. But sometimes........
We use the word "beide" when two things or people stand out from a larger set because they individually have something in common.
We use "die beiden" when two things or people stand together out from a larger crowd because they have a common characteristic.
"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Beide sind verheiratet"
"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Die beiden sind verheiratet"
In the first sentence they are married, but not to each other, in the second, they are....
I would say in english 1) both are married 2) the two are married
Since we are so nice together, allow me to ask you a question that I have been asking myself for a long time:
We have in German the important difference between "das gleiche" and "dasselbe".
We can wear "das gleiche" shirt at the same time, if we have bought two identical shirts.
If you want to wear "dasselbe" shirt as me, I have to take mine off and then you put it on.
If you choose the wrong word here, it can happen that 10 friends in the pub yelling : "das gleiche"
I known for both words only the translation "the same"
Is there also one single word in English for this difference, or do I have to explain it wordily?
The two people who opened the establishment and who run it are two Spaniards, a married couple who had worked in Germany for a while. Their son runs the nearby "Die zwei Deutschen" / "Los dos Alemanes" café. One of their neighbour suggested the name.It should point to a special feature, namely that two Germans have opened a restaurant here together., not Spaniards.
I now fear that it is a an ex-Die-Zwei-Deutsch pension and it is now a "Die zwei Deutschen" pension. When I look at Google StreetView, which I ought to have done long ago, I see one sign next to the road that definitely says "Die zwei Deutschen" in big letters. There is another sign on the building itself but I cannot see it clearly. It looks like the 'EN' is there, too, though.There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch.
I agree but I'm adding that in a conversation I would be saying "They are wearing the same shirt". If I wanted to take time to be clear I would say "They are wearing identical shirts". Note the difference in my use of singular and plural shirts. I could say "They are wearing the same shirts" or "They are wearing an identical shirt" though if i heard "same shirts" my first thought would be each were wearing two or more shirts.Das Gleiche – I would use 'Identical' or 'equal' but unlike in German, 'same' would define itself by context anyway
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?