- Time of past OR future Camino
- Yearly and Various 2014-2019
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I love coming across a hair dryer when I stay in hotels, but would not take one to use in albergues because of the cost of electricity. Their margins are very tight. I would feel I was stealing, unless I paid extra or made some other recompense.
Exactly the discussion I was hoping for, @Dorpie .I think you're overthinking this one
Haha, @VNwalking , happy to be your counterpoint/devil's advocate.
Exactly what opened my eyes from @Kanga's post. I'd just never thought of it from that vantage point.That would soon add up to quite a bill.
So no, not being stupid or rigid about such things - with arbitrary criteria. But I do know what I need...and what is actually extra.Or do you have a fair amount of time in mind? Or do you have another approach.
Well it certainly does, if by knowing that we all get a bit more sensitive to how much it costs the folks who have to pay the bills.You simply have NO CHOICE, but to use the electricity and pay the very high taxes.
Hope this helps the dialog.
Actually, a friend of mine from Navarra told me many years ago that it was absolutely ok to take grapes for immediate tasting, walking by. Times may have changed that...I thought that this thread would have to do with pilgrims helping themselves to a few grapes or other fruit as they pass through vineyards and farmer's fields. Yes, that is stealing.
@VNwalking, I saw @Kanga's comment when she first made it, and thought it might have been a bit precious. That said, it did make me wonder if there is a principle that one should conduct themselves austerely when on the camino in general, or perhaps only in certain places, like donativo albergues. Perhaps that theme should be explored?
A friend of mine in Switzerland told me many years ago it was bad manners to take grapes.Actually, a friend of mine from Navarra told me many years ago that it was absolutely ok to take grapes for immediate tasting, walking by. Times may have changed that...
And numbers. When there are a thousand people a year walking to Santiago, that's one thing. But a few hundred thousand is quite another. That's a lot of casually eaten grapes.Times may have changed that...
That was not on my mind, Doug, but it's certainly emerged as a theme...indirectly. Restraint (or austerity, if you prefer that angle) is an act of kindness to others when there is shortage. And to the world.Perhaps that theme should be explored?
What a great way to frame it, Elle. Because that makes us sensitive to what we might be over-using. And in the big picture, we all are, because it's not just showers in albergues and who pays the bills for that, is it?:I also try to remember that I need to behave as if I were paying for everything!
Exactly..."on care for our common home".
Alas. I fear you're right.The time for the long, 15-min hot shower is over!
It's a matter of knowing how consumption affects others, isn't it?It feels pretty good when you arrive late at Fuenterroble and it’s full of pilgrims and theres still some hot water for your shower. You can look around and realise that *everyone* there did that for you.
Posted information about the cost of power and water might change wasteful habits. We (most of us) just don't know what it costs to run an albergue.But it would be one way to influence people’s wasteful consumption and to let people pay for what they use.
In much of Spain where water is scarce it's usual to get wet, switch off the water, lather all over, then rinse off the soap.Haha, @VNwalking , happy to be your counterpoint/devil's advocate.
I'm curious as to how you rationalise (which is not to say you're irrational, I just can't think of the right word) this. Say for example you get in the shower push the button and only get 10 seconds of water, do you just get out, shrug your shoulders and say "well I guess that's my ration."? Or do you have a fair amount of time in mind? Or do you have another approach.
You're right not to take water and the electricity needed to heat a shower for granted, if my quick google is to be relied upon a 5 minute hot shower costs about a $1 (this was from a US site) and uses over 60 litres of water! That would soon add up to quite a bill.
A quick google of 2018 stats shows 24 euro cents to be a typical Spanish price for a kilowatt hour,
Awwww...Gee, thanks, John.Such a post just makes me want to reach out and hug the poster in thanks.
Please consider this a virtual hug.
Me too, and your strength of character that's willing to say something different:@Albertagirl, I love your honesty.
I'm sorry, @Albertagirl , that was absolutely not my intention. Mostly it was to start a conversation about something that had been an eye-opener for me, seeing things from the opposite perspective than I usually see them. About how we may be assuming entitlement, when that feeling is not actually justified or realistic.Would I have a hot bath if I believed that the fuel to heat the water was expensive for the albergue manager or that I might be leaving little hot water for those wanting a hot shower? Yes. Am I willing to be bullied or persuaded into feeling guilty about it? Maybe.
Well, maybe not, on a per capita basis.So yes electricity is expensive, but it's not likely to be the deciding factor here in whether they make a profit from you or not.
Because I'd never thought of things that way, instead have only focused on what I get or don't.
????? You hadn't?????seeing things from the opposite perspective than I usually see them.
Of course, this is the way it should be. It is excellent to point out, for those who were unaware of the cost of electricity, that the excessive use of hair dryers, heaters, etc., is a problem at albergues on tight budgets. This information should be passed on and does not have to be tied up in a transformational moment.And here I see it a different way. Thinking of others as much as myself and what I get or feel entitled to is not overthinking, but merely thinking of us rather than just me... Because someone has to pay, even if it's not me.
No, honestly. Completely oblivious about how much overhead albergues carry...and (for example) being the kind of person who (if there are no other pilgrims queuing up for showers) would take as long and as hot a shower as possible. I can take others into account if they are pilgrims, but I had honestly not thought much about albergue costs, figuring they were 'covered.'????? You hadn't?????I find that incredible, having known and liked you online (and even in person) for a few years now.
The reason I was surprised was that I know you are very aware that people need to donate to "donativos" with the knowledge that someone has to pay for the people who don't or cannot. I just assumed that the same awareness would extend to businesses, especially small family ones. Just like toilets in bars - they don't exist for the world to use without maintenance by someone.Completely oblivious about how much overhead albergues carry...
Well, maybe not, on a per capita basis.
But multiply that by the numbers of people per night and the nights per year...
A lot of a little equals a lot. Like stolen grapes, a few kwh can add up.
Wow. I'm in the UK. Converting to US dollars for comparison I'm paying about 20 cents per unit. But my 2 month bill is about 75 dollars. I guess I am a) being ripped off and b) pretty frugal!Wow!! Our residential electric rate is 2.1 cents USD. Our 3200 Sq Ft home and appliances are totally electric. Our summers get hot and our winters cold. We keep our thermostat set to 68F (winter) and 70F (summer). Our lighting is via LED bulbs. Our two-month billing for electricity is $64.00.
I knew about toilets in bars, of course, but was less mindful of the actual costs to private albergues...a personal blind spot, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one to have it.I just assumed that the same awareness would extend to businesses, especially small family ones. Just like toilets in bars - they don't exist for the world to use without maintenance by someone.
Only if everyone stays within the narrow break-even margins. It's not just hairdriers. It's heating, water, WiFi data use, toilet paper, laundry...and things that we probably can't even imagine unless we've been hospitaleras/os. There are lots of potential places to overuse/overspend, blithely thinking it's 'included.'I know what you're saying, but the more people, the more per-person fees as well, so it should scale fine,
Wow. I'm in the UK. Converting to US dollars for comparison I'm paying about 20 cents per unit. But my 2 month bill is about 75 dollars. I guess I am a) being ripped off and b) pretty frugal!
Wow!! Our residential electric rate is 2.1 cents USD. Our 3200 Sq Ft home and appliances are totally electric. Our summers get hot and our winters cold. We keep our thermostat set to 68F (winter) and 70F (summer). Our lighting is via LED bulbs. Our two-month billing for electricity is $64.00.
Even knowing our area is an anomaly with our power rates being the lowest in America, it still always takes my breath away to hear what electric rates cost away from where I live. Our two-county area owns our dams (4), and has so much surplus power that we sell it on the open market to the rest of the US.
The administrative overhead to send and process billings requires that they be sent every two months, rather than monthly. We do our payment based on a monthly-average plan, which is evaluated every year to adjust billing costs based on the previous year's power usage.
And they don't even have the courtesy to wait until morning!We could probably use more electricity in albergues without feeling bad if people stop nicking the toilet rolls every day! The toilet roll nickers really get my goat! Shame on you!
Brierleys guidebook does not work well as loo roll I have found.
Just saying
Davey
Coming from Oz I'm also aware that water can be a scarce resource so I have been surprised to see wide bore hoses washing down streets in Spain..a very wasteful practice. I've seen this is small villages as well as Salamanca,Toledo and AvilaIn much of Spain where water is scarce it's usual to get wet, switch off the water, lather all over, then rinse off the soap.
Coming from Oz I'm also aware that water can be a scarce resource so I have been surprised to see wide bore hoses washing down streets in Spain..a very wasteful practice. I've seen this is small villages as well as Salamanca,Toledo and Avila
Oh that more of us on this planet were thinking and feeling this, @Albertagirl. It sounds like you're already well on your way to doing that - and walking the Camino will only deepen both the reflection anx the connection.But I want to open the eyes of my heart to those who are suffering. If I am called to go on camino, it is not in order to be comfortable.
Hi Dave. A unit here is a kw/hr so I think the same? But heating is gas and no air conditioning needed here!What is a unit there? Convert it to the standard kW/H to get a comparison. Also, is your home and appliances, including heating, all electric. We use a heat pump/electric furnace and central air.
Hi Dave. A unit here is a kw/hr so I think the same? But heating is gas and no air conditioning needed here!
There progress on renewables is good, but I don't think it is that good. In 2014 they were generating a bit over 40% of their electricity from renewables according to Wikipedia.Wish I could remember where I saw this, but I seem to remember reading that Spain had managed to supply all its (domestic?) electricity needs from renewable resources. It was a few years ago, I think. Very impressive!
I realise that this doesn’t really contribute to this thread as such, but it did make me think, especially when I read here that electricity is the most highly taxed form of energy, at point of usage.
Don't know about Spain but a few years ago we (Portugal) were able to run for 3/4 days just on renewable energy.@dougfitz
It might have been for a specific length of time, for a week or a month perhaps.
I remember thinking that they were doing really well with it ... all those windmills were having a real effect!
Don't know about Spain but a few years ago we (Portugal) were able to run for 3/4 days just on renewable energy.
You are extremely blessed with your electric bill. Mine for a 2500 square foot is anywhere from 150 to 400 depending on the monthWow. I'm in the UK. Converting to US dollars for comparison I'm paying about 20 cents per unit. But my 2 month bill is about 75 dollars. I guess I am a) being ripped off and b) pretty frugal!
Coming from Oz I'm also aware that water can be a scarce resource so I have been surprised to see wide bore hoses washing down streets in Spain..a very wasteful practice. I've seen this is small villages as well as Salamanca,Toledo and Avila
I am a Yank and I say with full knowledge: most Americans are very wasteful with water and power, and have no clue of the true cost or how to conserve energy. I learned this on my first trip to Paris, in 1973, aged 19, staying with my parents' friends, Sylvie and Jacques. Sylvie showed me around their tiny flat and admonished me to NEVER leave a light burning when I left a room, to ALWAYS turn off appliances and consider the high cost of power (l'électricité coûté extrêmement chère en France, les américains ne comprennent pas...). To this day, I hear her voice, reminding me to switch off those lights - here in Australia, we have solar power but electricity is costly and water is rationed. I wince on trips back to the USA, lights blazing in every room, AC set to frigid and extravagant baths, showers, fountains, pools. There is a high price for this. Better to learn now, even my American grandkids will eventually have to pay dearly for the waste.Wow. I'm in the UK. Converting to US dollars for comparison I'm paying about 20 cents per unit. But my 2 month bill is about 75 dollars. I guess I am a) being ripped off and b) pretty frugal!
While I generally agree with your post, it does end with a false etymology. Your "original" meaning for "tip" is a cute story but readers should be aware that it is a complete (albeit popular) fabrication. According to the learned lexicographers at Oxford, the verb originated in thieves cant: https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/08/14/origin-posh-tip/I think the theme ought to be something akin to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you..." If it were YOUR albergue, you would want people to be:
(1) considerate of others and the owners, and
(2) generous when considering the basic albergue tariff, and what they have consumed, and ought to pay in respectful understanding of the overhead involved here. It is part of giving back.
It give a new meaning to the phrase TIP. It originally meant "to insure promptness (in service)." In our context, this discussion, it might mean "To Insure Power..."
Get the hint...
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