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Tsk,tsk,tsk, Berlin to Saint Jean de Luz is roughly 2000 km, how long would you need to walk the distance, and that's only one way, not counting the way back, plus there's still the matter of going all the way from Saint Jean de Luz to Compostela and back.
Sorry if i've misunderstood you, but are you suggesting that walking the Camino Frances is a "super cheap holiday". It might be for you, but it certainly wasn't for me. I saved what i could from my low paid job for years, to be able to afford unpaid leave to go.
If you give money to beggars, it just fosters begging as a viable economic option. Here in London, I get approached by beggars several times a day - sometimes two or three on the train and a couple in the street, on my way to and from work. I never ever give money. I work with former homeless people and they support my stance on this. Indeed if I meet a particularly noteworthy scammer (like the guy who cuts his own arm every single day and pretends he needs taxi money to go to hospital), my colleagues will usually know them. Here in London we have a situation where all beggars are 'professionals', simply because the competition is such that if you don't have a good story, you won't get money. I participated in a thread on this topic before and got given a hard time initially, but I won't accept criticism from people who don't live in places where they get begged from every single day. Beggars and scam artists no doubt see pilgrims as a soft touch, and they are right. Living in a little bubble of small good deeds and niceness, makes it hard for the peregrino to say no to their demands, and they know it. Beggars are also often controlled by pimps who take nearly all their money - do you think the 'deaf and dumb' girls are free to stop begging and get a job? They are probably trafficked and controlled and the money goes to criminal gangs. So sorry to break your illusions of doing good deeds, or it not really mattering.
). They were walking in the opposite direction of us, maybe doing reversio? I'm not sure, but they both had nicer looking equipment, and looked to be clean. They just asked for a couple of euros for food, so I said sure why not. I gave whatever I had in my pocket. We got to the actual halfway point, where people were talking and congratulating and all that, when we started talking with a few of our friends. Turns out, all of them gave a couple of euros separately as well. I guess they had a decent dinner that night, lol. . Beggars surround tourist attractions all over the world. I really hope that doesn't happen for this.
I dont believe in mooching. I worked very hard for my sheckles and those who want money should work hard too. If they cant, there are many welfare programs that have been funded by money extracted at the point of a gun from me and other hard working people so the answer is NO. and if they tell a long story to make you think they are your friend i am offended by that tactic. it is very low.
Tsk,tsk,tsk, Berlin to Saint Jean de Luz is roughly 2000 km, how long would you need to walk the distance, and that's only one way, not counting the way back, plus there's still the matter of going all the way from Saint Jean de Luz to Compostela and back.
I take it that you are half-joking, but I have thought about your post, and have looked up the location of St. Jean de Luz and I still don't understand. The OP said the guy was German; she didn't say he had walked from Germany. I still think it was time he went home!
Of course I was half joking: the joke is in the assumption that "a camino" is a month long enterprise at the most. We know next to nothing about the person! And, as a general comment, the OP asked whether such incidences - begging pilgrims or what looks like begging pilgrims - are common but many answers go into a very different direction.
He said he had walked from Hannover, Germany.
Then the timeframe of 3 and a half months is entirely credible.
Post like yours and @notion900's but also others (and hopefully mine) should not be regarded as political because they inform about or are relevant for what we see - if we look - along the caminos/chemins to Compostela and foster mutual understanding among peoples; it's actually an aim of the Cultural Routes, an often ignored aspect of the modern Camino de Santiago. Unfortunately, posters frequently use the occasion to express their general political views, often sourced mainly from newspapers reports, with little effort to research actual facts or background. Pity.
. I don't get the sin dinero philosophy.
I had to think of the same story. Here is another link:
Wanting to correct a perception that is common in our culture, that those who have fallen on hard times are 'lazy'...there but for the grace of god....
Generosity is a topic very close to my heart as my entire life is built around giving and receiving. A gift from the heart, and with no agenda as to how it is used is (for me anyway) a source of lightness and joy. But the wisdom of the gift is also important.
Very true, JabbaPapa--but that's their problem and their karma, not anyone else's, yes? We can ignore them if we think they are fakes, after all.
I understand - at least I think I understand - the concept of mendicant pilgrims in Buddhism / Asian traditions and cultures. I know a thing or two about mendicant pilgrims and mendicant missionaries and mendicant monks in the Middle Ages or earlier. I went back to the website quoted above and see that they have the following categories:
looks like alot of important thoughts are coming from this begging question.
I met the German from Hanover in Hontanas. He "said he was a pilgrim" and had walked from Germany 3 months before. Our group spent the evening drinking with him. We never saw him openly beg and he never asked us for anything but we did share our wine and he got the last empty bed for free at 9pm when it rained. One of our group spoke German and translated his story - it wasn't pleasant. He'd lost everything and just started walking. We never thought of him as a beggar. He might be a scammer but he was pleasant, and caused no trouble...unlike the scammers around Burgos Cathedral!!
It would take about 15 weeks which is 3 1/2 monthsTsk,tsk,tsk, Berlin to Saint Jean de Luz is roughly 2000 km, how long would you need to walk the distance, and that's only one way, not counting the way back, plus there's still the matter of going all the way from Saint Jean de Luz to Compostela and back.
Yes, that's an interesting aspect. I guess it's all about trade-offs. We pay for and buy meals all the time at restaurants without blinking an eye, and considering that we're paying for someone's rent and living expenses.
Pilgrimage now - not in the Middle Ages. I think I understand those pilgrimage periods better than today's.
As I said earlier : A mendicant pilgrim won't ask for what he doesn't need.
Interesting you should mention that. I've just got back from 10 days in Florence. While there I went to Lucca for the day. At 2 churches there were elderly people standing at the church entrances asking for money. I did decline but donated instead to the church. Why is the question....force of habit? Finding people begging irksome? Prefer to donate to an organisation? I'm not sure but it still bothers me.
Thank you for this. It is the first evidence on this thread that our German was indeed 'a pilgrim' and not someone walking a pilgrimage route, on holiday, and expecting others to fund it for him. I can fully understand that, being beset with difficulties - you said he'd lost everything - he felt the need to walk; I've been there myself - beset with difficulties not of a financial nature - and guess I was fortunate enough that I was able to pay my own way on the camino. Indeed, there but for the grace of God...
A decade ago the Washington Post conducted an experiment. They had Joshua Bell, one of the world's best musicians stand outside a subway station incognito in street clothes playing for 43 minutes six pieces of the world's most beautiful and difficult to play music on his Stradivarius violin worth perhaps 3 million dollars and made when Stradivarius was in his prime and had access to the best materials. The post counted 1,097 people go by. The violin case was open for donations. Discounting the contribution of one woman who came late and recognized him, Bell, who can get paid $1,000 a minute for his performances, made $32.17.
That's why i try to stick to Spain, France and surrounding countries and experience around camino trails and not dwell on what I saw, learnt from locals or how I reacted in Morocco, New York, India, Jordan and Nepal.
That is not what I am saying. The man has had a pilgrimage of 3,5 months. Lots of people have to save money for years and are happy if they manage to find 4 weeks to walk. They don't let others pay for their Camino.
Triple like this and the rest of your post, obinjatoo. Thank you.
Bit isn't that the point? That no "evidence" should be needed for someone to show a bit of empathy and generosity?
Indeed, a smile or a kind word costs $.0.I too prefer to give to the charities, but whether we give or not - I think we can acknowledge the person as a individual, greet them and answer them. Just like we would anyone else who takes us out of our day, to ask for the direction or the time. Maybe this thread, is just a conversation to make us more aware in our daily lives.
Let us not go there ... I'm already so proud of myself that I did not react in any shape or form to an earlier unveiled reference to the current socio-political situation in Germany, and now we are on the verge of entering the frightening arena of discussing US politics. Don't you feel the breath of the moderators in your necks?
Definitely, up to a point. And everyone needs to decide for himself where that point lies. I recall giving with empathy and generosity to beggars on the way to Santiago whom I now believe were frauds. That does not bother me as I was, and still am, happy to give back a little of what I received. That does not mean that I am going to accept, unquestioningly, every story that I hear from someone asking for a hand out.
