Can the Camino 'survive' 450.000 pilgrims a year?

[jefferyonthecamino]

That's what the Xunta foresees for the Holy Year of 2021.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...corrido-camino-va-ano/0003_201511S2C19910.htm

 

[JabbaPapa]

There used to be over twice that number, half a million walking there, plus all those same people walking back.

It survived then, it'll survive now.

 

[Aidan21]

Maybe 2021 is a good year to go from Le Puy to SJPP and avoid the madding crowd. As for the large numbers doing the CF that year, especially the last 100 kms, then I have no doubt the Camino will survive. Sure it may be crowded and perhaps less enjoyable in some respects, but its draw for those souls in search of that something that cannot be easily or logically articulated will always be there no matter what the year. So come 2022, I expect that many folks (perhaps you and me), will still be itching to get back on the trail and search once again for that something that our souls are eagerly searching for. Yeah the camino will survive just fine .

 

[t2andreo]

I suspect the various Camino routes, including the Frances will survive, as others have mentioned. At times, bed space will be at a premium. But, I rather suspect the local population along the various routes will adapt to cash in on the surge in business. Look for more ad hoc municipal albergues to "pop up" in sports halls and community centers.

However, I opine that the real issue occurs when those pilgrims arrive at the Pilgrim Office for their documentation (Compostela,certificate of distance, etc.). This office has been hard pressed on days when more then 1,500 pilgrims arrive to be documented in recent years. The burden is partially based on the volume. But, in my observation, adding documents for optional sale (Certificate of Distance) and all the various Camino-related souvenirs just slows the core mission down.

I worked as an Amigo in 2014, when the Compostela was issued, the mileage certificate had just been introduced, and there were few souvenir items to be purchased. Returning for a month in 2015, I saw immediately that the waiting queues were doubled in size and time. This could be directly proportional to the staff having to issue two documents for a greater percentage of pilgrims (the Compostela and Mileage Certificate, then having to negotiate the purchase of one or more souvenir items. Handling money was also an issue that worked to slow the overall process.

However, for 2016, the Pilgrim Office is moving to newly renovated enlarged space at 33 Rua das Carretas. This is the first right at the bottom of the "ramp" to the left of the Parador de Santiago - Hostal Reis Catolicos. Number 33 is on the left, at the end of the first block.

Work is being completed as we "speak." The office and staff should be moved over well before the 2016 season starts around Semana Santa (Easter).

The issue, and one that the Cathedral and staff are well aware of is how to handle a doubling, or trebling of the present annual, and daily volume. So, to that end, additional processing capability will be added.

While I was there for a month working as a Voluntario this past July and August, I discussed (pleaded) with the priest who was in charge of the overall pilgrim welcoming and documenting processes to find a way to separate everything else, from issuing the Compostela. Issuing the Compostela, not any other certificate, or selling any item, is the core mission of the Pilgrim Office.

My observation over two consecutive years was that the Pilgrim Office was starting to look more like the story of Christ upturning the money changers and vendor tables in the courtyard of the great temple in Jerusalem. There were an increased number of point-of-sale, retail diversions to "waste time" that might be devoted to issuing the Compostela. It upset me that the focal point of the entire process, issuing the 800+ year old Compostela document was relegated to simply another thing they do.

I understand the need to generate revenue, as the Cathedral DOES NOT allocate funds for the Pilgrim Office. It must find ways to be self-sustaining. So, they simply do what they must to afford the staff to accommodate the increasing volume of arriving pilgrims. The one given is that they will NEVER charge for issuing the original Compostela. However, everything else seems to be up for discussion.

My urgent request was to have one queue and process for expeditiously issuing Compostelas. A second physical area, and queue should be devoted to providing everything for which there is a fixed price.

So, you would enter the HUGE courtyard at the rear of the new property, with it's pleasant shade, tables and diversions, check your rucksack and bicycle with a sanctioned vendor INSIDE the walls, then make your way to the various places established to obtain your Compostela. After that primary documentation process, you could, for example, go to the onsite tienda to buy your certificate of distance, frames to hold your documents, tubos, bracelets, candles, etc.

For reference, I believe the new Pilgrim Office was formerly a convent. It is comprised of several acres / hectares, surrounded by a 2.5 meter high solid wall. There is one entry and one exit gate in the wall. I believe, based on what I observed last summer, and what I overheard, that security will be tighter and access more restricted to pilgrims only. This is partially in response to world conditions, and partially to address overcrowding.

The half-million annual pilgrim mark IS coming. The issue is how best the Cathedral can prepare for this eventuality.

I hope to be part of that solution, this year, and beyond.

 

[grayland]

Thanks for your thoughts, Tom.
I agree with your observations and have voiced some of the same concerns.

 

[evanlow]

Just walk any camino other than Camino Frances...

 

[Icacos]

There used to be over twice that number..............plus all those same people walking back.

It survived then, it'll survive now.

Perhaps, but all those people weren't looking for, or expecting, a hot shower or to wash their clothes at the end of each day, like they are today. I do tend to look at practicalities.....like where is the water coming from for all those constantly flushing toilets (we won't talk of outdoor facilities!). I know it rains a lot in Galicia, but does it rain that much?

 

[Harington]

That's what the Xunta foresees for the Holy Year of 2021.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...corrido-camino-va-ano/0003_201511S2C19910.htm

I walked the Camino Francés in 2011, the year after the last Holy Year , and as I spoke with hospitaleros and tourist office staff along the way the consensus seemed to be that people held off in 2010 because they feared the crowds.

 

[movinmaggie]

I suspect the various Camino routes, including the Frances will survive, as others have mentioned. At times, bed space will be at a premium. But, I rather suspect the local population along the various routes will adapt to cash in on the surge in business. Look for more ad hoc municipal albergues to "pop up" in sports halls and community centers.

However, I opine that the real issue occurs when those pilgrims arrive at the Pilgrim Office for their documentation (Compostela,certificate of distance, etc.). This office has been hard pressed on days when more then 1,500 pilgrims arrive to be documented in recent years. The burden is partially base don the volume. But, in my observation, adding documents for optional sale (Certificate of Distance) and all the various Camino-related souvenirs just slows the core mission down.

I worked as an Amigo in 2014, when the Compostela was issued, the mileage certificate had just been introduced, and there were few souvenir items to be purchased. Returning for a month in 2015, I saw immediately that the waiting queues were doubled in size and time. This could be directly proportional to the staff having to issue two documents for a greater percentage of pilgrims (the Compostela and Mileage Certificate, then having to negotiate the purchase of one or more souvenir items. Handling money was also an issue that worked to slow the overall process.

However, for 2016, the Pilgrim Office is moving to newly renovated enlarged space at 33 Rua das Carretas. This is the first right at the bottom of the "ramp" to the left of the Parador de Santiago - Hostal Reis Catolicos. Number 33 is on the left, at the end of the first block.

Work is being completed as we "speak." The office and staff should be moved over well before the 2016 season starts around Semana Santa (Easter).

The issue, and one that the Cathedral and staff are well aware of is how to handle a doubling, or trebling of the present annual, and daily volume. So, to that end, additional processing capability will be added.



While I was there for a month working as a Voluntario this past July and August, I discussed (pleaded) with the priest who was in charge of the overall pilgrim welcoming and documenting processes to find a way to separate everything else, from issuing the Compostela. Issuing the Compostela, not any other certificate, or selling any item, is the core mission of the Pilgrim Office.

My observation over two consecutive years was that the Pilgrim Office was starting to look more like the story of Christ upturning the money changers and vendor tables in the courtyard of the great temple in Jerusalem. There were an increased number of point-of-sale, retail diversions to "waste time" that might be devoted to issuing the Compostela. It upset me that the focal point of the entire process, issuing the 800+ year old Compostela document was relegated to simply another thing they do.

I understand the need to generate revenue, as the Cathedral DOES NOT allocate funds for the Pilgrim Office. It must find ways to be self-sustaining. So, they simply do what they must to afford the staff to accommodate the increasing volume of arriving pilgrims. The one given is that they will NEVER charge for issuing the original Compostela. However, everything else seems to be up for discussion.

My urgent request was to have one queue and process for expeditiously issuing Compostelas. A second physical area, and queue should be devoted to providing everything for which there is a fixed price.

So, you would enter the HUGE courtyard at the rear of the new property, with it's pleasant shade, tables and diversions, check your rucksack and bicycle with a sanctioned vendor INSIDE the walls, then make your way to the various places established to obtain your Compostela. After that primary documentation process, you could, for example, go to the onsite tienda to buy your certificate of distance, frames to hold your documents, tubos, bracelets, candles, etc.

For reference, I believe the new Pilgrim Office was formerly a convent. It is comprised of several acres / hectares, surrounded by a 2.5 meter high solid wall. There is one entry and one exit gate in the wall. I believe, based on what I observed last summer, and what I overheard, that security will be tighter and access more restricted to pilgrims only. This is partially in response to world conditions, and partially to address overcrowding.

The half-million annual pilgrim mark IS coming. The issue is how best the Cathedral can prepare for this eventuality.

I hope to be part of that solution, this year, and beyond.

I've just returned home to Victoria, BC after the journey of a lifetime. I am in the midst of compiling my thoughts, but while I think of this one point as it relates to the changes, crowding, lines, etc. what I did notice at the Pilgrim Office was that none of the volunteers are asking the questions "Did you walk to the whole way?". Not that it matters to me because I did, but was just wondering why and who decides whether or not this question is to be asked? I also would like to highly commend the work done by Faith and Nath and others at the Pilgrim House. It's a shame more pilgrims are not aware of this hospitality centre. They were absolutely wonderful. Faith even arranged a birthday cake for me. I was telling everyone I knew about this service. They have a program twice a week (?) whereby pilgrims get together and Faith or Nath host a discussion. They help with printing out of boarding passes, etc. I was most grateful.

 

[Saint Mike II]

It's interesting that the Galician Govt/Xunta has posted this item. I made mention of the overcrowding in a recent post. Yes I totally agree that there are other Caminos BUT they all converge on Santiago and I believe its this overcrowding that is causing most concern. There is a finite number of beds/rooms available in the city and in the surrounding towns (say last 25-40 km of the various Caminos). So, my suggestion, if you intend to walk any Camino in 2021 start thinking about what date you will arrive in Santiago and plan accordingly. (Buy a caravan and park in a camping ground close to SDC!!??).
As for the comment about there being more than 450,000 both going to SDC and walking back - but (imho) those pilgrims had significantly fewer expectations that those of today.

Cheers

 

[newfydog]

I am in the midst of compiling my thoughts, but while I think of this one point as it relates to the changes, crowding, lines, etc. what I did notice at the Pilgrim Office was that none of the volunteers are asking the questions "Did you walk to the whole way?". Not that it matters to me because I did, but was just wondering why and who decides whether or not this question is to be asked?.

As you compile your thoughts, ask yourself" would this trip be any less meaningful if I had skipped the Pilgrim Office altogether? Is that slip of paper very important compared to the trip itself?"

Our first time in Santiago we did not ask for a Compostelle. The trip was the significant event, the arrival at the Cathedral just in time for the bottefumero was the grand finish, and the credential with stamps a fine paper souvenir. On a later trip we went and got our papers, but I still can't understand the why people place so much importance on them.

Not trying to be critical, just baffled. If someone gets a certificate and they "cheated", it would be even less relevant, but still the crowds pack into lines, and there is frequent debate here on the the requirements.

I wonder if the church should say "the Compostelle is between you and God. We don't issue them any more." I wonder if that would weed out some of the less genuine pilgrims?

 

[movinmaggie]

As you compile your thoughts, ask yourself" would this trip be any less meaningful if I had skipped the Pilgrim Office altogether? Is that slip of paper very important compared to the trip itself?"

Our first time in Santiago we did not ask for a Compostelle. The trip was the significant event, the arrival at the Cathedral just in time for the bottefumero was the grand finish, and the credential with stamps a fine paper souvenir. On a later trip we went and got our papers, but I still can't understand the why people place so much importance on them.

Not trying to be critical, just baffled. If someone gets a certificate and they "cheated", it would be even less relevant, but still the crowds pack into lines, and there is frequent debate here on the the requirements.

I wonder if the church should say "the Compostelle is between you and God. We don't issue them any more." I wonder if that would weed out some of the less genuine pilgrims?

It goes without saying that the de Compostela was not the purpose of my journey. From the beginning, I was walking in gratitude (and to mark my 80th birthday). I only bring it up because there always seems to be so much discussion around it. I was merely asking who makes those decisions. Is it the Cathedral? It has nothing to do with me personally…I know where and who I am.

 

[newfydog]

Yeah Maggie, sorry , I shouldn't have quoted your post that way...it just was the one that got me wondering about all the clamor for a compostelle.

 

[JillGat]

Does the Pilgrim office providing the Compostela offer an opportunity to provide donations to support their operation, materials, etc? If not, they should. I suspect that many pilgrims who don't care so much about souvenirs still might donate to compensate their expenses.

 

[jelle]

I walked during the peak season of the last holy year in 2010 and didn't feel it was too busy back then. Just the last 100 km. My guess is it will be the same. Some increase for the longer distances but the last 100 km will take up the bulk of the increase.

If the Xunta foresees it now, I expect they will be proactive in creating extra shelter for that year. In any case we know Monto de Gozo can handle it .

 

[Kanga]

Monte De Gozo has fallen into disrepair.

I walked into Santiago on the Friday before the Sunday Feast Day in 2004, and was impressed by the "pop up" sleeping accommodation in the last 100 km - very basic but at least shelter. As well as school gymnasiums the army put up huge tents with timber floors. It is the one time we took, and used, sleeping mats, because of course there were no beds in the gymnasiums or tents. Not too much in the way of bathing facilities either, but as you know there are plenty of fountains along the way so cold water washing was common.

 

[lessonslearnedabroad]

I found the last 100km this past September to be almost unbearable. There is a noticeable decline in the quality of the Camino for that 100km, due to the overt "touristyness" of those final kilometers. We couldn't go 100m without seeing other pilgrims, many of whom were loud and disrespectful. I can't imagine what a Holy Year would be like – wall to wall pilgrims, no peace and quiet...I will definitely be avoiding that

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

interesting comments and opinions, cheers. hopefully the Xunta really gets their act together as th

I can't imagine what a Holy Year would be like – wall to wall pilgrims, no peace and quiet...I will definitely be avoiding that

me too

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Not too much in the way of bathing facilities either, but as you know there are plenty of fountains along the way so cold water washing was common.

That's what Labacolla is for after all Now, if only someone could explain the spelling of that town's name ... Why a b and an ll?

 

[indyinmaine]

Well, it's been far too long since I've posted anything here. It was two years ago last Friday that I walked into Santiago and I'll NEVER forget it. I doubt that I'll do it in 2021 (I'd be 90!) because at my pace I'd be sleeping in the fields. Is it getting too crowded for those of us who sought its mysteries and contemplative silence; probably. But I believe it will somehow grow and evolve into something beyond what it is and has been.
Three years ago, just before I walked and told people, they said, "What's that?" Now they say, "Wow!"

 

[Kitsambler]

There are marked St James routes beginning as far east as Warsaw and Bratislava (maybe even Talinn by then), and as far north as Oslo. Thousands of miles of peaceful and quiet walking, if the thought of 450,000 fellow pilgrims gives one pause. These are well-marked routes with decent infrastructure and make for very satisfying spiritual experiences. Don't limit yourself to Spain - there is a wider world out there.

 

[t2andreo]

Does the Pilgrim office providing the Compostela offer an opportunity to provide donations to support their operation, materials, etc? If not, they should. I suspect that many pilgrims who don't care so much about souvenirs still might donate to compensate their expenses.

Yes, at each "workstation" along the counter in the Pilgrim Office (P/O) there is a square box for donativos. It is appropriately labeled and clearly states that donations are appreciated. However, relatively few pilgrims actually make a donation. The amount collected is less than the revenue from the various other items sold at the office. Which, in retrospect, is why the P/O increasingly resembles a commercial shop. They have little choice if they are to fund their own operations.

I maintained from 2014, when I first experienced the "other side of the counter" while working as an Amigo, that there had to be a better way to separate the pilgrims interested primarily in the Compostela, and those for whom, the P/O was another tienda to buy stuff in. I acted on those beliefs in 2015 when I pleaded with the P/O "management" to do it differently at the new office starting in 2016. I have no idea what they have in mind in terms of processes. If I were placing bets, I would submit that nothing will change. The location will be different and the facilities and services much, much better for pilgrims. But, the essential work process will likely remain pretty much the same. I say this for two reasons: (1) we are talking about the Church; and (2) this is Spain after all... Change comes slowly within both jurisdictions.

All this said, one of the commenters above remarked that it might be possible to cease issuing the Compostela all together, as completion of the pilgrimage was a matter between the Pilgrim and their God. I tend to agree with this sentiment. Here is why...

Following the Catholic dogma regarding the pilgrimage, and obtaining the various spiritual graces and benefits that accrue to a Catholic who "crosses their 't(s)' and dots their 'i(s)'..." none of those spiritual benefits require a piece of paper. Also, for those who believe in the effects of these benefits on admission into Heaven in the afterlife, again, no paper would be needed. So, in this regard, one could make the case that issuing the Compostela is superfluous.

On the other hand, would ceasing issuance of the official Compostela reduce the number of pilgrims? Would this affect the regional economy? Would this, as suggested previously, "weed out" the sketchy pilgrims for whom the piece of paper was the goal, and not the experience, accomplishment, or attainment of the spiritual benefits (again, for which no piece of paper is necessary in the end)? I do not have the answers to these questions.

Would a secondary market in counterfeit, commercially issued "compostelas" emerge? I believe I heard or read something here over the past months that said that some souvenir shops were already selling certificates that resembled the official Compostela. What would expansion of that practice do to the credibility of the Camino pilgrimage?

The Church has been issuing the identical message on similar pieces of parchment or paper for more than 800 years. Granted, having a written proof of your accomplishment was vital at a time when there were no alternative means to document the attainment of this goal, most people other than clergy were illiterate, and the Compostela was often required to satisfy some condition or another back in one's home village. It could be effectively argued that issuing any piece of paper, and especially to all requesters, and for free, is completely extraneous and superfluous when people have documented their pilgrimages through a plethora of costly electronic means. A simple, date-stamped photo taken in front of the P/O would accomplish much the same to mark completion of the journey.

Viewed as a dogmatic process that continues to exist primarily because of tradition lasting more than 800 years, I personally do not see anything changing. I am a "cradle Catholic," and I very well understand the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and it's fundamental reluctance and resistance to change on all levels. However, as an educated, and professionally experienced person, who specialized in process management and improvement throughout his more than 30 year career, my felt recommendation is that there might be a middle ground that satisfies most people.

Perhaps the P/O could cease issuing free Compostelas, and instead engage the services of several calligraphers. A pilgrim, having been interviewed by P/O staff and approved for issuance of the Compostela, could opt to pay to have a professionally calligraphed Compostela issued, in a tubo, at the P/O. The cost would be set to recover the full cost of printing, administering, and issuing the improved looking Compostela.

In this way, those persons for whom the Compostela means something very important, will be able to obtain an improved version at cost. Pilgrims who do not care about the Compostela at all, need not be concerned. And the "sketchy" pilgrims who are in it primarily for the paper or "bragging rights" could choose to pay the cost of obtaining the improved certificate, of simply take a date-stamped "selfie" in front of the P/O.

Viewed from a process perspective, this would definitely work. However, getting the Church to accept this or any change to improve P/O welcoming and processing processes is somewhat less likely to succeed, art leas tin the near term.

As always, I hope this helps...

 

[Castilian]

That's what Labacolla is for after all Now, if only someone could explain the spelling of that town's name ... Why a b and an ll?

As far as I know the official spelling is Lavacolla.
Lava=3rd person, singular of present tense in indicative mode or second person, singular of imperative (as you prefer to see it) of the verb lavar (to wash).
Colla=plural of collum being collum neck in Latin.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Thank you. I kept wondering about the spelling. Even Spanish guides spell it with a B. understandable, though irky in english guides, because of the v soundojg like a v, but the "elle" really through me for a loop. I knew I never liked my Latin classes.

 

[Pelegrin]

I think that the Camino(s) will survive despite this spectacular growth forecast. I don´t see any reason to make it disappear in only 6 years. Yes, probably will decrease from that point during a period of time.
Many times these forecasts fail. Here in Spain we have quite a few useless constructions that are a result of these failures.

 

[Canucks]

Yeah Maggie, sorry , I shouldn't have quoted your post that way...it just was the one that got me wondering about all the clamor for a compostelle.

If you were doing it to absolve yourself of the need for additional penance for committing a crime, I suspect that piece of paper would be pretty critical 1000 years ago. I don't know, but that is my guess.

As for now, everyone does it for their own reasons and, for some, the piece of paper is still very meaningful.
It was meaningful for us and we happily stood in line for it. If they had a fee, I would have paid it. It was an important event in our lives and it is a permanent reminder of that accomplishment.
Every facet of our lives does not have to be solely spiritual. We do inhabit a physical world also.

That's why the clamour for the compostelle,.....for us....... since you asked.

As for staying on topic and the question of the Camino surviving with greater numbers on a single year, compared to the current average, I am sure that it will. Will I walk the Frances that year? Not a chance.
I'm not sure what would happen to the Camino that would generate this topic question? It will just be a bit more uncomfortable, which will, hopefully, enhance the spiritual reasons for those doing it on such a spiritually important year. They can feel like they are a more "authentic" pilgrim, as we have seen expressed other times on this forum.
A bonus for them!!

 

[Thornley]

Is a Compostela required as a subject for the Spanish kids at school and/or are they allowed time off to walk during the year ?
Is it a requirement for the Spanish kids to have one on their CV?
If not Yes to both of the above is it wise to have one when joining the work force?

Is the Bishop of SDC resisting the Compostela distance being increased to 200 or 300km on the camino Frances ?

I do not know one person who has completed the Frances in previous years that will now walk the last 100km after joining from a different camino , ex Primitivo, Norte....not one person.
They get the bus and walk to the coast...........which is itself becoming very popular indeed.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Is it a requirement for the Spanish kids to have one on their CV?
If not Yes to both of the above is it wise to have one when joining the work force?

Is the Bishop of SDC resisting the Compostela distance being increased to 200 or 300km on the camino Frances ?

I do not know one person who has completed the Frances in previous years that will now walk the last 100km after joining from a different camino , ex Primitivo, Norte....not one person.
They get the bus and walk to the coast...........which is itself becoming very popular indeed.[/QUOTE]
Nope, not required, how can it be with 400 k compostelas a year, including foreigners, and oldies. Nope not on CVs. Are are they allowed to take time to walk. ? Not any more than any other school trip. As for employability, who cares ? Were you less employable befoyre you walked?.Is this walk your biggest accomplishhment? It's a school trip, nothing more.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I'm not sure what would happen to the Camino that would generate this topic question? It will just be a bit more uncomfortable, which will, hopefully, enhance the spiritual reasons for those doing it on such a spiritually important year. They can feel like they are a more "authentic" pilgrim, as we have seen expressed other times on this forum.
A bonus for them!!

If the Camino and/or spirituality is now about putting up with modern lifestyle, let's all stay home and endure more rush hour traffic and leave the Camino alone for those looking for peace and quiet to be able to attempt introspection of any kind.

 

[Kanga]

Ah, we are all different. We all have different experiences and expectations.

@Thornley I walked the Norte in May and June and happily joined the Frances at Arzua - in fact we loved the excitement of all those extra people. I walked it again in September/November and I would walk it again tomorrow.

I love the last 100km. The walking is beautiful (well, except for the very last day), the people are happy, the infrastructure is superb. Don't get me wrong, I love the peaceful Caminos as well, but to love those does not require me to dislike the opposite. I can like night AND day, I can like the country and the city.

If a pilgrimage is only about solitude then a lot of Muslims are doing it wrong.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Not as if Muslims have a choice as to where and when to walk. But Buddhisht do have their troadition of retreats, it is not just about just walking 100km while drinking and graffitiing. I prefer their way, since Christians don't really have a real tradition of pilgrimtion.

 

[Georgina77]

I really find it too bad there is so much discussion about who does and doesn't deserve a Compostella the rules were in place and decided along time ago by people who most likely had a good reason for their decision ....and if people want to walk more than the given amount perhaps a special Compostella should be issued to them for their suffering and extra pain they went through or inflicted upon them selves But honestly I don't think God is looking at how much you beat your self up to walk a pilgrimage I think he is more interested in your hearts commitment to him; I my self don't have a lot of money I had to save for a long time to come and do this because I felt that God had told me to I am not even Catholic and yet I felt God had spoken to me to come to the Camino and I also had to travel half way around the world to get there when I have never traveled like that before in my life I am full of arthritis and have kidney issues and other illnesses as well as I am in my late 60's I say this not so you feel sorry for me but to make you aware there are many people like me who sacrificed to even come there and so who are you to judge who is worthy and who isn't worthy of some man made piece of paper that says you were there That piece of paper my friends does not make you a pilgrim a seeker or even some one who is after the will of God; What does make you a pilgrim is what is in your heart toward God and your fellow brothers and sisters along your pilgrimage and not just along the Camino but your pilgrimage along the road of life How you treat others and your expectation of others will show how much you really care and love your neighbor Christ commands that we love our neighbor as our self,,, are we doing that when we judge some one and demand that they fit into our cookie cutter molds of what determines them to be a this or a that ....Well perhaps I am a bit harsh and I don't mean to hurt any one but really give it a break and think about just who are judging here and what really gives you that right; you may have walked 900 k along the Camino but how many k's have you walked to help some one in need.... Not many I would think by the critical comments I am hearing

 

[Georgina77]

I just want to add that I enjoyed my trip to Spain and my camino thanks to the people who lived along the Camino especially those who ran the Muixa Alburgue .....but this kind of talk from fellow pilgrims just ruins it and makes me feel very sad and disappointed

 

[Thornley]

I just want to add that I enjoyed my trip to Spain and my camino thanks to the people who lived along the Camino especially those who ran the Muixa Alburgue .....but this kind of talk from fellow pilgrims just ruins it and makes me feel very sad and disappointed

Bella Muxia is something special Georgina .
They were like that the day they opened, a very caring family.

 

[GlenysP]

Apologies if already mentioned. I started reading the thread but I'll have to continue later.

Did you know that the Pope declared that 2016 is an extraordinary Holy Year (of mercy)?

Although it will mean that more will make a pilgrimage to the Vatican, I've seen reference to that fact that many other pilgrimage destinations will also attract more Pilgrims. Therefore, Santiago de Compostela was mentioned on a different link. But here's a bit of information.

http://www.gocatholictravel.com/holy-year-of-mercy-jubilee-pilgrimages-dec-2015-nov-2016/

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Apologies if already mentioned. I started reading the thread but I'll have to continue later.

Did you know that the Pope declared that 2016 is an extraordinary Holy Year (of mercy)?

Although it will mean that more will make a pilgrimage to the Vatican, I've seen reference to that fact that many other pilgrimage destinations will also attract more Pilgrims. Therefore, Santiago de Compostela was mentioned on a different link. But here's a bit of information.

http://www.gocatholictravel.com/holy-year-of-mercy-jubilee-pilgrimages-dec-2015-nov-2016/

Yep, they're due to open the Holy Door in Santiago early December (the one in Rome gets opened on the 8th, other sites after that), and it will stay open until the 20th november if i'm not mistaken. Not sure if this will have the same pull as a Jacobean Holy year though.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Ah, we are all different. We all have different experiences and expectations.

@Thornley I walked the Norte in May and June and happily joined the Frances at Arzua - in fact we loved the excitement of all those extra people. I walked it again in September/November and I would walk it again tomorrow.

I love the last 100km. The walking is beautiful (well, except for the very last day), the people are happy, the infrastructure is superb. Don't get me wrong, I love the peaceful Caminos as well, but to love those does not require me to dislike the opposite. I can like night AND day, I can like the country and the city.

If a pilgrimage is only about solitude then a lot of Muslims are doing it wrong.

It's not so much the crowds i would be concerned about, but the mcdonald's that tend to follow them.

 

[Kanga]

@jefferyonthecamino the only mcdonalds we saw was this one:

 

[Thornley]

@jefferyonthecamino the only mcdonalds we saw was this one:
View attachment 22303

Did you notice Mick Gatto top left

 

[Deleted member 12253]

Is it a requirement for the Spanish kids to have one on their CV?
If not Yes to both of the above is it wise to have one when joining the work force?

Is the Bishop of SDC resisting the Compostela distance being increased to 200 or 300km on the camino Frances ?

I do not know one person who has completed the Frances in previous years that will now walk the last 100km after joining from a different camino , ex Primitivo, Norte....not one person.
They get the bus and walk to the coast...........which is itself becoming very popular indeed.

Nope, not required, how can it be with 400 k compostelas a year, including foreigners, and oldies. Nope not on CVs. Are are they allowed to take time to walk. ? Not any more than any other school trip. As for employability, who cares ? Were you less employable befoyre you walked?.Is this walk your biggest accomplishhment? It's a school trip, nothing more.[/QUOTE]


I did. Finished in Lugo after walking from Irun. Could not stomach the last 100 km. your personal preference, nor necessarily others. Live and let live

 

[Tia Valeria]

.................... you may have walked 900 k along the Camino but how many k's have you walked to help some one in need....

Perhaps there should be a question about helping others as you have walked as well as the other questions asked!
@Georgina77's comment reminded me of one of the Tall Ships Race entrants some years ago. In the lead on one stage they saw another vessel in distress so stopped to offer assistance. They arrived among the last of the competitors for that stage. The race is not just about arriving first but also seamanship, so they were awarded the prize for that stage as a rule of the sea is that you do not leave some-one in distress.
Perhaps we need to read more about 'camino angels' again rather than bickering over paperwork.
For me on that subject I would be glad to see a queue for the Compostella/certificate and its tube. Maybe any donation of €5 or more could have the tube given to speed things up, and with no change given. All other paid certificates or other paid for items, including tubes for those unwilling to donate or without the correct money, being dealt with at a seperate queue sounds a good idea where payment could be made and change given without hindering the 'free certificates/Compostella' queue.

Can the Camino survive? - yes but maybe not as in the past. Change is part of life and it is even possible that the numbers won't increase as expected as the bubble may burst.

 

[newfydog]

JabbaPapa said: ↑
There used to be over twice that number, half a million walking there, plus all those same people walking back.
It survived then, it'll survive now.

I don't think this is correct - although it sounds good .

All my sources confirm the size of the ancient pilgrimage. James Michener writes "We can speak with accuracy of this vast movement of people-the incredible number of more than a half million moved along the road each year.....

 

[Canucks]

If the Camino and/or spirituality is now about putting up with modern lifestyle, let's all stay home and endure more rush hour traffic and leave the Camino alone for those looking for peace and quiet to be able to attempt introspection of any kind.

The thread is about the holy year and double the people on the Camino......what does that have to do with modern lifestyle? It would be difficult now, and it would have been difficult 1000 years ago.
If someone goes on a holy year and expects peace, quiet, and introspection, then I would suggest they didn't do much in the way of thinking or planning ahead of time.
As for the spirituality component, I would never expect others to have to provide me with *my* requirements for a spiritual setting.......that would be selfish.

 

[NorthernLight]

I'm tempted to walk the Frances next year, just to have the Holy Year experience.

I heard the Pope speak in Vatican City and he called everyone who came to visit the shrine of St Peter a pilgrim. Walking wasn't required. The point was to pray at the shrine, not to walk there.

I met a monk in Rabanal who was mystified by pilgrims who think they're supposed to suffer on the Way. He recommended luggage forwarding.

I will continue to walk, and to carry my crap. And perhaps get used to stinking more if the way is over-capacity.

 

[SYates]

It has survived more in the medieval ages, with far less knowledge about hygienics ect so yes I am sure it can survive those kind of numbers in the 21st century. Buen Camino, SY

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

@jefferyonthecamino the only mcdonalds we saw was this one:
View attachment 22303

Exactly, and hopefully it stays that way. But large numbers means money, and money calls chains and franchises.