- Time of past OR future Camino
- First one in 1977 by train. Many since then by foot. Next one ASAP.
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Well, for some, especially those for who this is still a religious pilgrimage, the Compostela is much more than a touristy souvenir, or a symbol of physical achievement which can be celebrated with a drink. For some it is also a way to become part of a long tradition of returning home with a symbol from the Cathedral of this pilgrimage. For some it is not a way to create a "memory of a long walk", but a true accreditatation of a pilgrimage to the tomb of St-James.Here's a thought, do you need a completion certificate at all, it's just a piece of paper after all and why ruin your memory of a great walk with a frustrating wait in a long line, head to the nearest bar and celebrate your achievement with a cold beer.
Just be grateful you didn't go today: 2250 people went in to pick their Compostela today.In October 2012 I collected a compostela. In June 2017 I collected another compostela. Compared to 2012 the Oficina del Peregrino in Santiago in 2017 was a madhouse!
How.... un-Camino like! Major bummer.
Just be grateful you didn't go today: 2250 people went in to pick their Compostela today.
I waited in line on May 21st for only 45 minutes this year I guess I should consider myself lucky!I recently returned from my third Camino.
In October 2012 I collected a compostela. In June 2017 I collected another compostela. Compared to 2012 the Oficina del Peregrino in Santiago in 2017 was a madhouse! I was genuinely shocked by the guards at the entrance, at the lines which stretched beyond the capacity of the new location to accommodate them, at the hours-long wait times!
How.... un-Camino like! Major bummer.
Wow indeed. If processing the pilgrims in an eight hour day it would average to a Compostela every 13 seconds.Just be grateful you didn't go today: 2250 people went in to pick their Compostela today.
Thankfully they have many volunteers working to help speed up the process of issuing all those compostelas!Wow indeed. If processing the pilgrims in an eight hour day it would average to a Compostela every 13 seconds.
I really wonder about this process that requires so many volunteers and long distance pilgrims standing on painful limbs for so long.Thankfully they have many volunteers working to help speed up the process of issuing all those compostelas!
Yes. I should have thanked the volunteers. Especially @t2andreo, the one person I know who is one there. And he is so helpful on this site too.Thankfully they have many volunteers working to help speed up the process of issuing all those compostelas!
Oh My. I suggest going early the next morning before Pilgrims start arriving for the day.Just be grateful you didn't go today: 2250 people went in to pick their Compostela today.
It's only a matter of time before people start lining up their backpacks at the door like they do in albergues to secure a bed.Oh My. I suggest going early the next morning before Pilgrims start arriving for the day.
In the busiest times of the year [like, about now!], the pilgrim office is open from 8 AM to 8.30PM. So not every 13 seconds, but still very busy!Wow indeed. If processing the pilgrims in an eight hour day it would average to a Compostela every 13 seconds.
Well, for some, especially those for who this is still a religious pilgrimage, the Compostela is much more than a touristy souvenir.
Not missing the point at all, just getting a bit tired of people telling others their Compostela shouldn't mean as much to,them as the time walked. People used to get buried with their shell. Surely it mattered quite a bit to them.what you are saying, but I think you miss the point.
I had exactly the opposite experience. In late June 2015 I waited well over an hour in broiling heat at the old location. In July of this year, mid morning, I was in and out in 15 minutes, but the line was quickly growing. There were 14 working stations as you can see by the picture. I am somewhat of a "sello nut" as I had SEVEN credentials, the French version bought in SJPP, all completely filled. It was the talk of the office.I recently returned from my third Camino.
In October 2012 I collected a compostela. In June 2017 I collected another compostela. Compared to 2012 the Oficina del Peregrino in Santiago in 2017 was a madhouse! I was genuinely shocked by the guards at the entrance, by the lines which stretched beyond the capacity of the new location to accommodate them, by the hours-long wait times!
How.... un-Camino like! Major bummer.
Many many more volunteers now in the new office then when I first visited the office at the top of the wobbly stairs in 2012. I think there were two volunteers back then.with the queues so long, how many don't wait? What does that do for the stats the office publishes? It will be interesting to compare the stats from the new and old office? Was there a difference in total number of volunteers' available at any one time? If so there could be quite a jump!
Some arriving "pilgrims" with "expectations"? They deserve different and harsh definition.[...] In my experience and observation, the problem is not the physical process, or Pilgrim Office staffing. Rather, it is the false expectation of some arriving pilgrims, who persist in arriving at their convenience and expecting that they will be accommodated immediately. .
Hi, Tom!First, thank you for the personal kudos above.
Volunteering at the Pilgrim Office each year, for one month from mid-July to mid-August is my way of giving back to the Camino for all it has given me over my five Caminos.
While serving at the Pilgrim Office, I have had the privilege of meeting and speaking with people from all over the world, from all faith backgrounds, and from none at all. The Camino provides an outstanding venue for seeking, finding and reaffirming our shared humanity.
I have also had the privilege of making some very good friends among both the expat and local communities. In many ways, Santiago has become my second family, and my second home.
On occasion, I am further blessed when a pilgrim allows me to help them solve a problem they may be having. Whether it is basic directions, finding a bed, medical care, a pharmacy or nearly anything else legal, I am always pleased to help. All I ask for in return is for each pilgrim to "pay it forward," helping another pilgrim as I helped them.
As regards waiting times at the Pilgrim Office, I would like to make several salient points. All are based on my four-consecutive years of summer volunteering at the office as well as my professional training.
I am trained as an analyst. I specialized for some years in process management and I very well understand queuing theory. Accordingly, I fully understand the dynamics of supply and demand at the Pilgrim Office. From this background, I offer the following points:
1. The period May - September is the peak season for Camino. Within this "season," there are several spikes in demand. These spikes are related to universities going out of session for the summer in June, and for students and staff taking to the Camino. This is also the time for many folks to take seasonal holidays or vacations. The Camino remains a popular holiday activity.
Also related is that, increasingly, Western universities in both Europe and North America are leveraging the Camino as part of their course offerings. This adds several thousand university students in chaperoned groups every year. Most of these educational groups are on the Camino from May through July. They compete for hostal and hotel rooms, as these groups typically do not use albergues.
2. The 25 th July is ALWAYS the feast of the Apostle Saint James the Greater. Also known as Santiago, his feast day is the single biggest day of celebration across the entire year in Spain. This day is both a national holiday in Spain and in Galicia. The local governments go to extraordinary effort and expense to make the annual celebration as big as humanly possible. This is the single greatest tourist draw in this part of Spain...PERIOD. So, you would logically think that the days bracketing this huge celebration will be the most crowded. Think Disney World over the Easter school break...
3. There are pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral at 12:00 noon and 19:30 each day. Pilgrims arrive at the Pilgrim Office synchronized to the noon Mass.
As a result, every day, there is a bi-modal peak effect. Each morning, new pilgrims flow into Santiago and head for the Pilgrim Office at about 10:00 am. This surge of pilgrims almost all want to get their Compostelas and make it to the Cathedral for noon Mass. Many people show up at 11:00 expecting this will work for them as well. This causes conflict and disappointment each day.
As the business process is built to handle a constant demand flow, this clear disconnect causes lengthy queues. In 2015, there were only 9 desk positions in the old Pilgrim Office to process pilgrims. In 2016, the new Pilgrim Office had 12 desk positions. The configuration this year (2017) has 17 desk positions. Yet the wait from about 10:00 to perhaps 15:30 remains at from one two two hours.
At the same time, the ACC (Acogida Christiana en el Camino) has gotten much better at recruiting fluent or native Spanish speakers, who are bi, or multi-lingual to work at these desk positions processing pilgrims.
However, it is not feasible to staff all 17 work stations constantly, regardless of the pilgrim flow. The ACC is continually working to try to match overall staffing to anticipated demand.
When the noon Mass is over about 13:00, there is a second surge or wave of pilgrims rushing to the office from the Cathedral. These folks knew enough to check into lodging and stash their backpacks FIRST, then attend Mass, then go for their Compostela. But, as they all arrive at the same time, a backup occurs.
Again, the number of pilgrims showing up in a constructed time period produces longer wait times. As a general observation, this second spike has usually been worked to completion by about 16:00, more or less.
As a result, by about 18:00 there are typically no lines. Since I arrived this year on 14 July, this has been the case. Indeed, at some times from 16:00 to 20:30, there have been more staff and volunteers available than there were pilgrims arriving.
In my experience and observation, the problem is not the physical process, or Pilgrim Office staffing. Rather, it is the false expectation of some arriving pilgrims, who persist in arriving at their convenience and expecting that they will be accommodated immediately. By simply planning your activities around the fixed and well-documented surge pattern, you CAN have a hassle-free experience.
This paradigm is no different than rush-hour commuting. We have traffic jams, the world over, simply because too many drivers try to use the finite road resource at the same time. If drivers, and pilgrims simply alter their patterns and behavior, the entire process would flow far more smoothly.
The second problem with matching the processing resource to the demand is that there is not now, not do I think can there ever be a reliable way to project how many pilgrims will emerge from the various Camino routes converging on Santiago every day. There are simply too many variables to develop a reasonable, workable model.
Thus, the Pilgrim Office is largely at the mercy of the actual number of pilgrims arriving and seeking documentation. Conversely, arriving pilgrims can EASILY work the existing process and well established demand curves to their benefit. Simply avoid the peak hours bracketing noon each day for about two hours to either side. Arrive during off-peak hours.
I hope this helps.
I saw this sign in a bar in Negreira on my way to Finisterre and Muxia.......and for some of us, a cold beer at the end of a Camino is a religious experience..
I saw this text on a sign in a pub in Oslo: "Beer - Soo much more than just a breakfast drink"
Actually that is the point, it's not the paper but the value you put on the experience and the things you associate with it. Scott wore the blue shirt he is pictured in on all of his caminos, even though it was quality linen it got very threadbare, in accordance with his wishes he was cremated in it so it too will go off with his ashes down the cliff face at Finistere.Not missing the point at all, just getting a bit tired of people telling others their Compostela shouldn't mean as much to,them as the time walked. People used to get buried with their shell. Surely it mattered quite a bit to them.
Perhaps for you, but not for all, especially those for whom what is written on it means something and whose message cannot be replaced by just any object.Actually that is the point, it's not the paper but the value you put on the experience and the things you associate with it. Scott wore the blue shirt he is pictured in on all of his caminos, even though it was quality linen it got very threadbare, in accordance with his wishes he was cremated in it so it too will go off with his ashes down the cliff face at Finistere.
I agree with the Camino has become something to do. I finished from Sahgun to Santiago. I had to give up Camino Madrid extremely hard, rough and absence of human habitation. I lasted only 3 days. As usually much partying of pilgrims at nite. I chose to do smaller Caminos and stayed in pensions or small hotels. In Rabanal del camino I stayed 5 days on nite in Gualcelmo albergue and then 4 days in the monastery. Many injures due to long Caminos for a number of pilgrims also knee and shin injures. An Italian youth I walked with for a day spent a week in Burgos due to shin problems and bed bugs twice. The BB were around I was a lucky one have protected myself with permetherin and therefore was never infected. It was certainly a hard Camino for me . My 9th but I made use of my time to spend time in places for a few days and enjoyed the rest.Sadly the Camino has become one of the things "to do" and like the running of the bulls, tomato festival etc it can be overwhelmed by , for want of a better word, tourists. Try going to the office in the evenings, or better yet pick a quieter time of year to do it...
Here's a thought, do you need a completion certificate at all, it's just a piece of paper after all and why ruin your memory of a great walk with a frustrating wait in a long line, head to the nearest bar and celebrate your achievement with a cold beer.
You may not understand why I get tired from the rants against leaving stones at the Cruz de Ferro or wearing the pilgrim shell during the Camino but at least we can commiserate in a shared misery!Not missing the point at all, just getting a bit tired of people telling others their Compostela shouldn't mean as much to,them as the time walked.
Did you see the one about people now leaving their "momentos" at the cross on the Salvador? Was on the Salvador FB page posted by those who mark the way, installed the cross, write the guide book...You may not understand why I get tired from the rants against leaving stones at the Cruz de Ferro or wearing the pilgrim shell during the Camino but at least we commiserate is a shared misery!
Oh my fellow peregrina. I am so sorry. I didn't know. I was off the forum for a couple of months because I was walking and I don't always keep up even when I am here. I've just responded to your post on another thread not knowing this. It was meant to make you both laugh.Actually that is the point, it's not the paper but the value you put on the experience and the things you associate with it. Scott wore the blue shirt he is pictured in on all of his caminos, even though it was quality linen it got very threadbare, in accordance with his wishes he was cremated in it so it too will go off with his ashes down the cliff face at Finistere.
Somwe can keep making suggestions, right?The process is what it is, and it IS improving over time. We all need to learn to work WITH the process, instead of insisting that the process change with our whim."
...
We're nearer to your home than the Pilgrims' Office.[...] My flight back to the US is on 17 August.[...].
Good morningI think that in the busier months, going later in the day is the way to go. I collected my Compostela from the office at 7P.M. (1900hrs) on June 22nd this year. There was no queue at all. I simply walked in and was back out in just a matter of minutes. I know that some people have to go in the morning, but if you don't have to, try later.
I have to disagree with both suggestions. Is a pilgrimage really a competition in which someone earns so many merit points per km walked? Is someone who walks "only" from Sahagun worthy of half the respect and privilege of a pilgrim who made the journey from Roncesvalles or St Jean? I can see good reasons for abandoning the 100km minimum walking distance - but perhaps it would be better to return to the earlier practice of granting the Compostela to all those who visit the shrine of the apostle in pietatis causa whatever their means of transport rather than reinforcing the view that it is a prize for some physical performance.Stop giving the compostela out to those who only walk the last 100Km. It is not fair on those who attempt to do many more KMs.
Or have a priority line for those who walk further.
First, thank you for the personal kudos above.
Volunteering at the Pilgrim Office each year, for one month from mid-July to mid-August is my way of giving back to the Camino for all it has given me over my five Caminos.
While serving at the Pilgrim Office, I have had the privilege of meeting and speaking with people from all over the world, from all faith backgrounds, and from none at all. The Camino provides an outstanding venue for seeking, finding and reaffirming our shared humanity.
I have also had the privilege of making some very good friends among both the expat and local communities. In many ways, Santiago has become my second family, and my second home.
On occasion, I am further blessed when a pilgrim allows me to help them solve a problem they may be having. Whether it is basic directions, finding a bed, medical care, a pharmacy or nearly anything else legal, I am always pleased to help. All I ask for in return is for each pilgrim to "pay it forward," helping another pilgrim as I helped them.
As regards waiting times at the Pilgrim Office, I would like to make several salient points. All are based on my four-consecutive years of summer volunteering at the office as well as my professional training.
I am trained as an analyst. I specialized for some years in process management and I very well understand queuing theory. Accordingly, I fully understand the dynamics of supply and demand at the Pilgrim Office. From this background, I offer the following points:
1. The period May - September is the peak season for Camino. Within this "season," there are several spikes in demand. These spikes are related to universities going out of session for the summer in June, and for students and staff taking to the Camino. This is also the time for many folks to take seasonal holidays or vacations. The Camino remains a popular holiday activity.
Also related is that, increasingly, Western universities in both Europe and North America are leveraging the Camino as part of their course offerings. This adds several thousand university students in chaperoned groups every year. Most of these educational groups are on the Camino from May through July. They compete for hostal and hotel rooms, as these groups typically do not use albergues.
2. The 25 th July is ALWAYS the feast of the Apostle Saint James the Greater. Also known as Santiago, his feast day is the single biggest day of celebration across the entire year in Spain. This day is both a national holiday in Spain and in Galicia. The local governments go to extraordinary effort and expense to make the annual celebration as big as humanly possible. This is the single greatest tourist draw in this part of Spain...PERIOD. So, you would logically think that the days bracketing this huge celebration will be the most crowded. Think Disney World over the Easter school break...
3. There are pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral at 12:00 noon and 19:30 each day. Pilgrims arrive at the Pilgrim Office synchronized to the noon Mass.
As a result, every day, there is a bi-modal peak effect. Each morning, new pilgrims flow into Santiago and head for the Pilgrim Office at about 10:00 am. This surge of pilgrims almost all want to get their Compostelas and make it to the Cathedral for noon Mass. Many people show up at 11:00 expecting this will work for them as well. This causes conflict and disappointment each day.
As the business process is built to handle a constant demand flow, this clear disconnect causes lengthy queues. In 2015, there were only 9 desk positions in the old Pilgrim Office to process pilgrims. In 2016, the new Pilgrim Office had 12 desk positions. The configuration this year (2017) has 17 desk positions. Yet the wait from about 10:00 to perhaps 15:30 remains at from one two two hours.
At the same time, the ACC (Acogida Christiana en el Camino) has gotten much better at recruiting fluent or native Spanish speakers, who are bi, or multi-lingual to work at these desk positions processing pilgrims.
However, it is not feasible to staff all 17 work stations constantly, regardless of the pilgrim flow. The ACC is continually working to try to match overall staffing to anticipated demand.
When the noon Mass is over about 13:00, there is a second surge or wave of pilgrims rushing to the office from the Cathedral. These folks knew enough to check into lodging and stash their backpacks FIRST, then attend Mass, then go for their Compostela. But, as they all arrive at the same time, a backup occurs.
Again, the number of pilgrims showing up in a constructed time period produces longer wait times. As a general observation, this second spike has usually been worked to completion by about 16:00, more or less.
As a result, by about 18:00 there are typically no lines. Since I arrived this year on 14 July, this has been the case. Indeed, at some times from 16:00 to 20:30, there have been more staff and volunteers available than there were pilgrims arriving.
In my experience and observation, the problem is not the physical process, or Pilgrim Office staffing. Rather, it is the false expectation of some arriving pilgrims, who persist in arriving at their convenience and expecting that they will be accommodated immediately. By simply planning your activities around the fixed and well-documented surge pattern, you CAN have a hassle-free experience.
This paradigm is no different than rush-hour commuting. We have traffic jams, the world over, simply because too many drivers try to use the finite road resource at the same time. If drivers, and pilgrims simply alter their patterns and behavior, the entire process would flow far more smoothly.
The second problem with matching the processing resource to the demand is that there is not now, not do I think can there ever be a reliable way to project how many pilgrims will emerge from the various Camino routes converging on Santiago every day. There are simply too many variables to develop a reasonable, workable model.
Thus, the Pilgrim Office is largely at the mercy of the actual number of pilgrims arriving and seeking documentation. Conversely, arriving pilgrims can EASILY work the existing process and well established demand curves to their benefit. Simply avoid the peak hours bracketing noon each day for about two hours to either side. Arrive during off-peak hours.
I hope this helps.
I have to disagree with both suggestions. Is a pilgrimage really a competition in which someone earns so many merit points per km walked? Is someone who walks "only" from Sahagun worthy of half the respect and privilege of a pilgrim who made the journey from Roncesvalles or St Jean? I can see good reasons for abandoning the 100km minimum walking distance - but perhaps it would be better to return to the earlier practice of granting the Compostela to all those who visit the shrine of the apostle in pietatis causa whatever their means of transport rather than reinforcing the view that it is a prize for some physical performance.
I turned up with my brother this year having walked over 120 km but not realising because it was printed in tiny writing at the back of our passport it must be the last 100 km to comply,,we skipped one town and so did not get a compestela ,,,I was so annoyed and upset especially after the long wait to get to the deskI recently returned from my third Camino.
In October 2012 I collected a compostela. In June 2017 I collected another compostela. Compared to 2012 the Oficina del Peregrino in Santiago in 2017 was a madhouse! I was genuinely shocked by the guards at the entrance, by the lines which stretched beyond the capacity of the new location to accommodate them, by the hours-long wait times!
How.... un-Camino like! Major bummer.
Well, I agree with both, but not because "it's not fair". Move back the 100km to 300km because that was the length of the original pilgrimage to Santiago, from Oviedo.I have to disagree with both suggestions. Is a pilgrimage really a competition in which someone earns so many merit points per km walked? Is someone who walks "only" from Sahagun worthy of half the respect and privilege of a pilgrim who made the journey from Roncesvalles or St Jean? I can see good reasons for abandoning the 100km minimum walking distance - but perhaps it would be better to return to the earlier practice of granting the Compostela to all those who visit the shrine of the apostle in pietatis causa whatever their means of transport rather than reinforcing the view that it is a prize for some physical performance.
Well, for some, especially those for who this is still a religious pilgrimage, the Compostela is much more than a touristy souvenir, or a symbol of physical achievement which can be celebrated with a drink. For some it is also a way to become part of a long tradition of returning home with a symbol from the Cathedral of this pilgrimage. For some it is not a way to create a "memory of a long walk", but a true accreditatation of a pilgrimage to the tomb of St-James.
Suit yourself. Standing in line requires humility and is a proper culmination to the pilgrimage.I get what you are saying, but I think you miss the point. If it is truely about the religious experience and visiting Jimmy, then surely the bit of paper is even more irrelevant... And yes I know the Compestella is form of prayer. But isn't it the completion itself that is the act of devotion, possibly added to by attending services at the cathedral.
As pagans we always felt a special bond of walking in the footsteps of others who have gone before, and as its against forums rules enter into religious rants I won't go into the pre Christian elements of the Camino. And no, I don't have a Compestella, instead getting the odd competition cert and used a hand drawn map as credential rather then the church sanctioned pilgrim passports.
Easily done: let the security guard at the gate hand them out. Like the changing room lady in shops who hands you a plastic tag with the number of items you are taking in with you.Maybe the experience would be improved by a number dispenser - but some-one would need to 'police' it to ensure that some folk didn't collect multiple tickets for their friends, just one for themselves..................
One of the best answers I have seen to the whole (frequently raised) issue.Suit yourself. Standing in line requires humility and is a proper culmination to the pilgrimage.
Just refering to what is currently beind discussed as per Rwbekha's post last year about this 100km issue. Take it up with that Camino association, not with me.It occurred to me today that the supposedly "first pilgrim" - Alfonso II of Asturias during whose reign the tomb of St James is said to have been discovered and who was born in Oviedo and who made Oviedo the capital of his kingdom - did not get a Compostela because they hadn't been invented yet. So, if you want to invoke history for any current Compostela rules, it should be reserved for those who
That should cut down the lines.
- start from home on foot or horse or by boat
- return home in the same way
- are Catholic
- present a letter from their Parish priest confirming that they fulfill a number of obligations (need to look them up).
See, now you know what "I" would do.I'm aware of the origin of the suggestion; it was a generic "you". Perhaps I should have written "if one wants to invoke ...". Non-native speaker mistake.
Ugh! Im starting in St. Jean on Sept. 6 planning on finishing around October 10. Do you think it will be less crowded by then? Just curious. Im going regardless.Sadly the Camino has become one of the things "to do" and like the running of the bulls, tomato festival etc it can be overwhelmed by , for want of a better word, tourists. Try going to the office in the evenings, or better yet pick a quieter time of year to do it...
Here's a thought, do you need a completion certificate at all, it's just a piece of paper after all and why ruin your memory of a great walk with a frustrating wait in a long line, head to the nearest bar and celebrate your achievement with a cold beer.
As before I feel that some of these suggestions are just plain selfish.
Those of us who, for one reason or another, have walked shorter distances but fulfilled the 100kms are probably just as weary as those who have walked further. Maybe even more so.
Please go and meditate on the parable of the workers in the vineyard. Some worked all day, others various hours and some just the last hour. All received the same rate of pay. Pilgrims IMO are like those workers and all receive the same treatment and certificates in Santiago.
Maybe the experience would be improved by a number dispenser - but some-one would need to 'police' it to ensure that some folk didn't collect multiple tickets for their friends, just one for themselves..................
It occurred to me today that the supposedly "first pilgrim" - Alfonso II of Asturias during whose reign the tomb of St James is said to have been discovered and who was born in Oviedo and who made Oviedo the capital of his kingdom - did not get a Compostela because they hadn't been invented yet. No Compostelas for many centuries while the pilgrimage to Saint James was already going strong.
So, if you want to invoke history for any current Compostela rules, it should be reserved for those who
That should cut down the lines.
- start from home and travel on foot or horse or by boat
- return home in the same manner
- are Catholic
- present a letter from their Parish priest confirming that they fulfill a number of obligations (need to look them up).
See The Gospel of St Matthew, chapter 20, verses 1-16. Then as I suggested in my post it is worth meditating on it and seeing a relationship to the subject of the Compostela and distances/time etc.Ref the workers analogy:
Many years of experience has shown me if a person has greater achievements, maybe these are in the form of certificates, one receives a greater re-enumeration (reward). This occurs not only in the vineyards, but all over the world.
Your message is loud and clear.[...]The Gospel of St Matthew, chapter 20, verses 1-16: the parable of the workers in the vineyard. Some worked all day, others various hours and some just the last hour. All received the same rate of pay. Pilgrims IMO are like those workers and all receive the same treatment and certificates in Santiago.[...]
I am doing my first Camino in "29 more sleeps" and that is some of the best advice I've heard yetI'm not big on line ups! Thank you so much for that!!
The delivery of Compostela is a never ending organizational problem, and will only get worse and worse every year.
I have a very simple solution. Put in place an automatic printing dispenser at the door of the pilgrim's bureau and charge a modest tarif for the service (not for the Compostela itself). You just put some coins, type your name, wait some seconds, and you are done (as in the boarding passes in airports). I suppose a camera could be added (as in the metro stations in France). It would be possible even to subcontract the service.
I know that this will make impossible to check up the famous 100 km rule. But you have walked them, and have seen the tours that offer customers "the best sections of every stage", and the minivans waiting for tired walkers in every road intersection, you know it is an increasingly absurd regulation. I'd better trust everybody's conscience -is not that the premise of the acceptation of a spiritual experience?
Let the good people of the Pilgrim's bureau dedicate themselves only to welcome, hug, comfort and give orientations to pilgrims that ask for it. I guess this will be more interesting and rewarding to them.
And obviously, give them the option of personalized delivery of Compostelas, for those pilgrims that don't mind the wait.
You should be fine. We usually go at that time of year as the weather is still good (and Scott got to celebrate his birthday on the way). There is another spike in numbers starting in Sept but it's not nearly as mad as July. Have a good walk.Ugh! Im starting in St. Jean on Sept. 6 planning on finishing around October 10. Do you think it will be less crowded by then? Just curious. Im going regardless.
Huh, reading this was just like rerun of Bladerunner or 1984Never gonna happen! Two reasons:
1. The current process is an evolution of the original, medieval process. Back in the day, the (usually illiterate) pilgrim would present themselves at the Cathedral, and be issued the same Latin language Compostela written out on parchment by a monk or priest. At that time, these were among the few folks who were literate. In manually issuing the Compostela, the Cathedral, acting through the Pilgrim Office, is trying to maintain one-thousand years of tradition. I think they do a credible job of it, all things considered.
3. We ARE talking about the Catholic Church here folks! For all of its ups and downs, good times and bad, they are quick to point out (correctly) that they are the longest continually operating, executive/driven organization on the face of the earth.
As of 2017, the Catholic Church has been under direct papal / executive management for 1,984 continuous years, without interruption. In this context, they frequently shrug their shoulders when presented with a new or more effective way of doing things.
All this said, in my four-years volunteering at the pilgrim office, and being a (retired) process management analyst, among other things, I do have the perfect control system. Here it is:
1. Pilgrims can only be awarded a Compostela if they started from an approved place, and pilgrim office on a Camino. No ad hoc, or intermediate starting places are sanctioned.
3. At these approved sites, pilgrims are affixed with a non-removable, tamper-resistant, "fit bit" like bracelet. The bracelet also contains all the "tombstone" demographic information now captured on paper at the Pilgrim Office. Pilgrims without said bracelet cannot be issued a Compostela.
4. The current granite "mojones" along the Camino routes would be retrofitted with solar-powered digital readers / writers that would time-stamp and update each pilgrim's bracelet as they walked or cycled past. Sellos become an anachronism. Cheating becomes impossible. The entire documentation process is passive, silent, anonymous, and fraud-proof.
6. As the pilgrim enters Rua das Carretas, in Santiago de Compostela, the current Pilgrim Office location, the last RF antenna would detect the approaching pilgrim, read all the bracelet data, and update the bracelet and the Pilgrim Office computers.
7. The computers would automatically reconcile the bracelet performance data, laser print the Compostela, mileage certificate, etc. Alternatively, if the pilgrim did not qualify for a Compostela, the system generates and exception report usimg the bracelet daya. The system would transmit a transaction code to the pilgrim bracelet.
8. Only a properly updated bracelet scan with a tranasaction code would grant admission to the Pilgrim Office. LED monitors in the garden, fountain courtyard and hallway would inform pilgrims of what transaction numbers were available for pickup.
9. Only when your number was displayed on a monitor would the automated turnstile open to let you enter. You would use your bracelet as a key.
10. Once inside, a sole employee would hand you your Compostela and mileage certificate, hot off the laser printer. They would also remove your bracelet using a special key. Attempts to remove the bracelet at any other time renders the data unusable.
I offer this ONLY to demonstrate how the Camino can be modernized and completely automated, except for the walking. I DO NOT FOR A MOMENT advocate doing this.
But, for those of you out there who continually whine or complain about one "old fashioned" aspect of the current process or another, I offer the above partially as sarcasm. It CAN all be addressed and remediated. But, that rather defeats the entire point of making a pilgrimage, doesn't' it?
Just think long and hard before you wish for something to change. Not all change is necessarily for the better. That said, it can all be done tomorrow, and using off-the-shelf technology.
This also refers to the original point #2 above. The Catholic Church has been around longer than all of us, and will be here well into the future. If they do not feel the need for change, why should we?
I hope this helps... I need another Estrella Galicia...
When I was reading your note, I was not sure if you were serious or notAll this said, in my four-years volunteering at the pilgrim office, and being a (retired) process management analyst, among other things, I do have the perfect control system.
Yep. But as far as I know, there is nothing medieval about the 100 km requisite. I am not an expert in Compostela history, but to me (in my supicious mind) this distance was introduced to promote tourism in Galicia. And it was a very succesfull idea, evidently, as you can see in Sarria.1. The current process is an evolution of the original, medieval process.
I always do it, but I am not sure it has ever been important.So the paper, and waiting in line, seems important the first time. Anyone else?
We finished the whole Camino this month (July) and got to the office early, waited 10 minutes and they were very efficient, especially the volunteer fron Wagga.Well, for some, especially those for who this is still a religious pilgrimage, the Compostela is much more than a touristy souvenir, or a symbol of physical achievement which can be celebrated with a drink. For some it is also a way to become part of a long tradition of returning home with a symbol from the Cathedral of this pilgrimage. For some it is not a way to create a "memory of a long walk", but a true accreditatation of a pilgrimage to the tomb of St-James.
Enjoy your Estrella .Never gonna happen! Two reasons:
1. The current process is an evolution of the original, medieval process. Back in the day, the (usually illiterate) pilgrim would present themselves at the Cathedral, and be issued the same Latin language Compostela written out on parchment by a monk or priest. At that time, these were among the few folks who were literate. In manually issuing the Compostela, the Cathedral, acting through the Pilgrim Office, is trying to maintain one-thousand years of tradition. I think they do a credible job of it, all things considered.
3. We ARE talking about the Catholic Church here folks! For all of its ups and downs, good times and bad, they are quick to point out (correctly) that they are the longest continually operating, executive/driven organization on the face of the earth.
As of 2017, the Catholic Church has been under direct papal / executive management for 1,984 continuous years, without interruption. In this context, they frequently shrug their shoulders when presented with a new or more effective way of doing things.
All this said, in my four-years volunteering at the pilgrim office, and being a (retired) process management analyst, among other things, I do have the perfect control system. Here it is:
1. Pilgrims can only be awarded a Compostela if they started from an approved place, and pilgrim office on a Camino. No ad hoc, or intermediate starting places are sanctioned.
3. At these approved sites, pilgrims are affixed with a non-removable, tamper-resistant, "fit bit" like bracelet. The bracelet also contains all the "tombstone" demographic information now captured on paper at the Pilgrim Office. Pilgrims without said bracelet cannot be issued a Compostela.
4. The current granite "mojones" along the Camino routes would be retrofitted with solar-powered digital readers / writers that would time-stamp and update each pilgrim's bracelet as they walked or cycled past. Sellos become an anachronism. Cheating becomes impossible. The entire documentation process is passive, silent, anonymous, and fraud-proof.
6. As the pilgrim enters Rua das Carretas, in Santiago de Compostela, the current Pilgrim Office location, the last RF antenna would detect the approaching pilgrim, read all the bracelet data, and update the bracelet and the Pilgrim Office computers.
7. The computers would automatically reconcile the bracelet performance data, laser print the Compostela, mileage certificate, etc. Alternatively, if the pilgrim did not qualify for a Compostela, the system generates and exception report usimg the bracelet daya. The system would transmit a transaction code to the pilgrim bracelet.
8. Only a properly updated bracelet scan with a tranasaction code would grant admission to the Pilgrim Office. LED monitors in the garden, fountain courtyard and hallway would inform pilgrims of what transaction numbers were available for pickup.
9. Only when your number was displayed on a monitor would the automated turnstile open to let you enter. You would use your bracelet as a key.
10. Once inside, a sole employee would hand you your Compostela and mileage certificate, hot off the laser printer. They would also remove your bracelet using a special key. Attempts to remove the bracelet at any other time renders the data unusable.
I offer this ONLY to demonstrate how the Camino can be modernized and completely automated, except for the walking. I DO NOT FOR A MOMENT advocate doing this.
But, for those of you out there who continually whine or complain about one "old fashioned" aspect of the current process or another, I offer the above partially as sarcasm. It CAN all be addressed and remediated. But, that rather defeats the entire point of making a pilgrimage, doesn't' it?
Just think long and hard before you wish for something to change. Not all change is necessarily for the better. That said, it can all be done tomorrow, and using off-the-shelf technology.
This also refers to the original point #2 above. The Catholic Church has been around longer than all of us, and will be here well into the future. If they do not feel the need for change, why should we?
I hope this helps... I need another Estrella Galicia...
Rather than an award for physical performance it could be thought of as recognition of the sacrifices required.I have to disagree with both suggestions. Is a pilgrimage really a competition in which someone earns so many merit points per km walked? Is someone who walks "only" from Sahagun worthy of half the respect and privilege of a pilgrim who made the journey from Roncesvalles or St Jean? I can see good reasons for abandoning the 100km minimum walking distance - but perhaps it would be better to return to the earlier practice of granting the Compostela to all those who visit the shrine of the apostle in pietatis causa whatever their means of transport rather than reinforcing the view that it is a prize for some physical performance.
They have the same rights for a Compostela as some one who walked from SJPdP or even further.Stop giving the compostela out to those who only walk the last 100Km. It is not fair on those who attempt to do many more KMs.
Or have a priority line for those who walk further.
They have the same rights for a Compostela as some one who walked from SJPdP or even further.
1984...Never gonna happen! Two reasons:
1. The current process is an evolution of the original, medieval process. Back in the day, the (usually illiterate) pilgrim would present themselves at the Cathedral, and be issued the same Latin language Compostela written out on parchment by a monk or priest. At that time, these were among the few folks who were literate. In manually issuing the Compostela, the Cathedral, acting through the Pilgrim Office, is trying to maintain one-thousand years of tradition. I think they do a credible job of it, all things considered.
3. We ARE talking about the Catholic Church here folks! For all of its ups and downs, good times and bad, they are quick to point out (correctly) that they are the longest continually operating, executive/driven organization on the face of the earth.
As of 2017, the Catholic Church has been under direct papal / executive management for 1,984 continuous years, without interruption. In this context, they frequently shrug their shoulders when presented with a new or more effective way of doing things.
All this said, in my four-years volunteering at the pilgrim office, and being a (retired) process management analyst, among other things, I do have the perfect control system. Here it is:
1. Pilgrims can only be awarded a Compostela if they started from an approved place, and pilgrim office on a Camino. No ad hoc, or intermediate starting places are sanctioned.
3. At these approved sites, pilgrims are affixed with a non-removable, tamper-resistant, "fit bit" like bracelet. The bracelet also contains all the "tombstone" demographic information now captured on paper at the Pilgrim Office. Pilgrims without said bracelet cannot be issued a Compostela.
4. The current granite "mojones" along the Camino routes would be retrofitted with solar-powered digital readers / writers that would time-stamp and update each pilgrim's bracelet as they walked or cycled past. Sellos become an anachronism. Cheating becomes impossible. The entire documentation process is passive, silent, anonymous, and fraud-proof.
6. As the pilgrim enters Rua das Carretas, in Santiago de Compostela, the current Pilgrim Office location, the last RF antenna would detect the approaching pilgrim, read all the bracelet data, and update the bracelet and the Pilgrim Office computers.
7. The computers would automatically reconcile the bracelet performance data, laser print the Compostela, mileage certificate, etc. Alternatively, if the pilgrim did not qualify for a Compostela, the system generates and exception report usimg the bracelet daya. The system would transmit a transaction code to the pilgrim bracelet.
8. Only a properly updated bracelet scan with a tranasaction code would grant admission to the Pilgrim Office. LED monitors in the garden, fountain courtyard and hallway would inform pilgrims of what transaction numbers were available for pickup.
9. Only when your number was displayed on a monitor would the automated turnstile open to let you enter. You would use your bracelet as a key.
10. Once inside, a sole employee would hand you your Compostela and mileage certificate, hot off the laser printer. They would also remove your bracelet using a special key. Attempts to remove the bracelet at any other time renders the data unusable.
I offer this ONLY to demonstrate how the Camino can be modernized and completely automated, except for the walking. I DO NOT FOR A MOMENT advocate doing this.
But, for those of you out there who continually whine or complain about one "old fashioned" aspect of the current process or another, I offer the above partially as sarcasm. It CAN all be addressed and remediated. But, that rather defeats the entire point of making a pilgrimage, doesn't' it?
Just think long and hard before you wish for something to change. Not all change is necessarily for the better. That said, it can all be done tomorrow, and using off-the-shelf technology.
This also refers to the original point #2 above. The Catholic Church has been around longer than all of us, and will be here well into the future. If they do not feel the need for change, why should we?
I hope this helps... I need another Estrella Galicia...
Be careful to judge others indeed. Well said.Peter,
Could not agree more.
I was just thinking about that first time pilgrim who will take his tentative steps in St Jean Pied de Port.
Or one of those 1300 Catholic students who are now walking the Camino Portugues...
Or the convalescing pilgrim who starts from Sarria and maybe can walk only ten k. a day...
Or the lonely walker who starts from his home in Paris...
Or...etc...etc.
Hopefully they are not thinking of rights but just enjoying the moment, meeting lovely and generous fellow pilgrims. Being thankful they find an albergue that is not full, a somewhat warm shower. And hopefully not too many physical ailments.
Everything else is a bonus...
Continue with your planning and walk YOUR camino, you are going to do fine. Buena suerte, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.I will be walking solo the CF from Sarria to Santiago this September 2017. I was looking forward to the journey and meeting the pilgrims on the way. This thread has given me some doubts about the way. But I am thankful for the tips to come late to the Pilgrim Office.
Planning to begin my first Camino from St. Jean in mid-August, I joined this forum yesterday. After reading quite a bit, I decided it was about time to make a comment, so this is my first. Your post should be very helpful and I'll remember what you said when I arrive in Santiago. Thank you for volunteering at the Camino office and thank you for your detailed explanation regarding the Compostela process. I look forward to my journey across northern Spain.First, thank you for the personal kudos above.
Volunteering at the Pilgrim Office each year, for one month from mid-July to mid-August is my way of giving back to the Camino for all it has given me over my five Caminos.
While serving at the Pilgrim Office, I have had the privilege of meeting and speaking with people from all over the world, from all faith backgrounds, and from none at all. The Camino provides an outstanding venue for seeking, finding and reaffirming our shared humanity.
I have also had the privilege of making some very good friends among both the expat and local communities. In many ways, Santiago has become my second family, and my second home.
On occasion, I am further blessed when a pilgrim allows me to help them solve a problem they may be having. Whether it is basic directions, finding a bed, medical care, a pharmacy or nearly anything else legal, I am always pleased to help. All I ask for in return is for each pilgrim to "pay it forward," helping another pilgrim as I helped them.
As regards waiting times at the Pilgrim Office, I would like to make several salient points. All are based on my four-consecutive years of summer volunteering at the office as well as my professional training.
I am trained as an analyst. I specialized for some years in process management and I very well understand queuing theory. Accordingly, I fully understand the dynamics of supply and demand at the Pilgrim Office. From this background, I offer the following points:
1. The period May - September is the peak season for Camino. Within this "season," there are several spikes in demand. These spikes are related to universities going out of session for the summer in June, and for students and staff taking to the Camino. This is also the time for many folks to take seasonal holidays or vacations. The Camino remains a popular holiday activity.
Also related is that, increasingly, Western universities in both Europe and North America are leveraging the Camino as part of their course offerings. This adds several thousand university students in chaperoned groups every year. Most of these educational groups are on the Camino from May through July. They compete for hostal and hotel rooms, as these groups typically do not use albergues.
2. The 25 th July is ALWAYS the feast of the Apostle Saint James the Greater. Also known as Santiago, his feast day is the single biggest day of celebration across the entire year in Spain. This day is both a national holiday in Spain and in Galicia. The local governments go to extraordinary effort and expense to make the annual celebration as big as humanly possible. This is the single greatest tourist draw in this part of Spain...PERIOD. So, you would logically think that the days bracketing this huge celebration will be the most crowded. Think Disney World over the Easter school break...
3. There are pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral at 12:00 noon and 19:30 each day. Pilgrims arrive at the Pilgrim Office synchronized to the noon Mass.
As a result, every day, there is a bi-modal peak effect. Each morning, new pilgrims flow into Santiago and head for the Pilgrim Office at about 10:00 am. This surge of pilgrims almost all want to get their Compostelas and make it to the Cathedral for noon Mass. Many people show up at 11:00 expecting this will work for them as well. This causes conflict and disappointment each day.
As the business process is built to handle a constant demand flow, this clear disconnect causes lengthy queues. In 2015, there were only 9 desk positions in the old Pilgrim Office to process pilgrims. In 2016, the new Pilgrim Office had 12 desk positions. The configuration this year (2017) has 17 desk positions. Yet the wait from about 10:00 to perhaps 15:30 remains at from one two two hours.
At the same time, the ACC (Acogida Christiana en el Camino) has gotten much better at recruiting fluent or native Spanish speakers, who are bi, or multi-lingual to work at these desk positions processing pilgrims.
However, it is not feasible to staff all 17 work stations constantly, regardless of the pilgrim flow. The ACC is continually working to try to match overall staffing to anticipated demand.
When the noon Mass is over about 13:00, there is a second surge or wave of pilgrims rushing to the office from the Cathedral. These folks knew enough to check into lodging and stash their backpacks FIRST, then attend Mass, then go for their Compostela. But, as they all arrive at the same time, a backup occurs.
Again, the number of pilgrims showing up in a constructed time period produces longer wait times. As a general observation, this second spike has usually been worked to completion by about 16:00, more or less.
As a result, by about 18:00 there are typically no lines. Since I arrived this year on 14 July, this has been the case. Indeed, at some times from 16:00 to 20:30, there have been more staff and volunteers available than there were pilgrims arriving.
In my experience and observation, the problem is not the physical process, or Pilgrim Office staffing. Rather, it is the false expectation of some arriving pilgrims, who persist in arriving at their convenience and expecting that they will be accommodated immediately. By simply planning your activities around the fixed and well-documented surge pattern, you CAN have a hassle-free experience.
This paradigm is no different than rush-hour commuting. We have traffic jams, the world over, simply because too many drivers try to use the finite road resource at the same time. If drivers, and pilgrims simply alter their patterns and behavior, the entire process would flow far more smoothly.
The second problem with matching the processing resource to the demand is that there is not now, not do I think can there ever be a reliable way to project how many pilgrims will emerge from the various Camino routes converging on Santiago every day. There are simply too many variables to develop a reasonable, workable model.
Thus, the Pilgrim Office is largely at the mercy of the actual number of pilgrims arriving and seeking documentation. Conversely, arriving pilgrims can EASILY work the existing process and well established demand curves to their benefit. Simply avoid the peak hours bracketing noon each day for about two hours to either side. Arrive during off-peak hours.
I hope this helps.
Still plenty of time to find another starting point and route. Anything wothing 100km of Santiago can be reached inexpensively and without much hassle.I will be walking solo the CF from Sarria to Santiago this September 2017... This thread has given me some doubts about the way.
Enjoy your first, of many, C. And when you get the PO ask to speak to the Floridian who encouraged you.Planning to begin my first Camino from St. Jean in mid-August, I joined this forum yesterday. After reading quite a bit, I decided it was about time to make a comment, so this is my first.
Hi Connie,Thank you for the thought. I will walk MY Camino.
The net impression to be found on this forum surely is that walking the Camino is a wonderful experience. Maybe doubts and imperfect moments are part of the experience. Everything won't be unmitigated joy!I was looking forward to the journey and meeting the pilgrims on the way. This thread has given me some doubts about the way.
Got there pre 0900hrs. First in best dressed. The packs of wannabes in uniform singing Buen Camino at everybody they skip past from Sarria onwards are more of a disappointment. There should be a separate completion recognition for them, but really it's all about the wonderful things going on in your head. The further away I get, April/May 2017, the more fondly I remember the wonderful things that the Camino provides. I often said during the hardships "we'll look back and say how wonderful this was" but alas, I never really knew how wonderful it was till it is a memory.I recently returned from my third Camino.
In October 2012 I collected a compostela. In June 2017 I collected another compostela. Compared to 2012 the Oficina del Peregrino in Santiago in 2017 was a madhouse! I was genuinely shocked by the guards at the entrance, by the lines which stretched beyond the capacity of the new location to accommodate them, by the hours-long wait times!
How.... un-Camino like! Major bummer.
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