- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2017
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
The pricesThe question is in the post title and regards the Frances. (But, those experienced on other routes can feel free to chime in though all readers would appreciate identification of the route upon which you comment!)
The top three things that one notices would be more than enough!
I have not been around here much for awhile as 'life intrudes' and so other priorities dominate my attention.
Further, upon checking in, I see little to offer on posted threads as I regard my past experience as severely out-dated and of little regard. (Though I am bemused to a certain extent by posts which implicitly suggest that avenues exist to experience the "best" of the Way.)
Certainly not a post in need of urgent response as I am well away (sadly) from being able to plan another walk. However, in a rare moment of idleness, I find myself curious.
Thanks in advance,
B
You are of course right about accommodation, and I should have mentioned that at 78, I have yielded the affordable bunk-beds to younger folks. (As should do seniors who can afford it imho.) And, ah yes, one other thing that has noticeably changed since Covid, is that suddenly, almost everybody seems to accept contactless payment even for small amounts. Very positive. (I am not sure if this applies to the albergues too)The post covid rush of pilgrims has amplified the worries about having a bed at the end of the day; some places on some days it is understandable but many others not quite so.
It has also amplified the number of pilgrims seeking private accommodation, which has the effect of pushing many albergues to offer them by converting a room of bunks into a room with two beds.
But if either of those don't influence you, then the covid part of post-covid walking experience won't affect you much.
The camino has changed in other ways in the meantime which has altered it a bit. With the growing popularity the demographic of pilgrims is shifting and growing, and although there are still a great many pilgrims that walk with a similar mindset that could be found 10 years ago they are greatly overshadowed by the number of pilgrims that are either repeat walkers or hyper planners and that does have an effect on the spontaneity of the camino and its daily duties.
I'm walking now, met people who still mostly show up and find beds. I've been about hal and half, reserving vs not. I reserved first couple of nights, because of the heat. Did have one place full, but someone asked the hospitalero to drive me to next village (one of the ridiculously hot days) and albergue was not full, nor in Castojeriz, nor in Boadilla,nor Villalcazar. I had to bus ahead to Leon and Ponferrada, so prebooked hotel rooms, but walked into a place in Cacabelos, only 2 of us so far in room, and it's just past 5 pm. In some ways it hasn't changed, still had group meals. Saw a positive COVID test and I don't know whose it was but people weren't wearing masks. I sleep with a mask on in albergue, especially if I hear any coughing. Try to sleep near a window.I began the Frances in St. JPdP May 13th, 2022 with the goal of finishing at Muxia.
I stopped in Leon due to difficulties/worries about finding bed. It broke my heart.
I walked the Frances in 2018 & 2019 to Finesteirre (2018) and Muxia (2019).
Never before did I have people warn me about the potential of sleeping out in parks, on church floors, etc. as I approached/arrived in Santiago.
As a small, not-young, single female traveling alone those options did not seem wise.
Never before did I think about calling ahead for reservations or using booking.com.
Almost no one spoke of taking taxis/buses to get to the location where their baggage was being ported ... a place they had reserved last February.
This year, it seems to be more the norm.
I'm attributing these changes to the pent-up demand by pilgrims who could not come for the past 2 years due to COVID.
But I fear that the changes may be reflective of a transition of the Camino from a pilgrimage to a tourist experience.
Alas, you were one of many who experienced what I think of as "The Stampede" that happened to a wave of pilgrims departing SJPP in the first two weeks of May this year. I departed on April 13th, and there were no issues with finding beds at all. Nobody should be surprised if a similar wave happens in the first two weeks of September.I began the Frances in St. JPdP May 13th, 2022 with the goal of finishing at Muxia.
I stopped in Leon due to difficulties/worries about finding bed. It broke my heart.
I walked the Frances in 2018 & 2019 to Finesteirre (2018) and Muxia (2019).
Never before did I have people warn me about the potential of sleeping out in parks, on church floors, etc. as I approached/arrived in Santiago.
As a small, not-young, single female traveling alone those options did not seem wise.
Never before did I think about calling ahead for reservations or using booking.com.
Almost no one spoke of taking taxis/buses to get to the location where their baggage was being ported ... a place they had reserved last February.
This year, it seems to be more the norm.
I'm attributing these changes to the pent-up demand by pilgrims who could not come for the past 2 years due to COVID.
But I fear that the changes may be reflective of a transition of the Camino from a pilgrimage to a tourist experience.
I think you are 100% correct in your assessment. I am retired and have the luxury of walking when I choose. I would rather walk in late fall/winter then summer. Less people less hassle worries. Of course fewer choices and I will take walking in cold any day over walking in the temperatures and crowds you have from May or June to Early October. Last year I walked the VDLP starting in mid October. I ended up walking to Astorga only because so many albergues were still closed and I had to go to hostels and my budget took a beating. Only difference I saw was there were less open albergues and very few open kitchens to cook. Besides that there wasn’t that much difference. I think when you walk is the biggest factor in pre/post caminos. Especially on the popular caminos.The post covid rush of pilgrims has amplified the worries about having a bed at the end of the day; some places on some days it is understandable but many others not quite so.
It has also amplified the number of pilgrims seeking private accommodation, which has the effect of pushing many albergues to offer them by converting a room of bunks into a room with two beds.
But if either of those don't influence you, then the covid part of post-covid walking experience won't affect you much.
The camino has changed in other ways in the meantime which has altered it a bit. With the growing popularity the demographic of pilgrims is shifting and growing, and although there are still a great many pilgrims that walk with a similar mindset that could be found 10 years ago they are greatly overshadowed by the number of pilgrims that are either repeat walkers or hyper planners and that does have an effect on the spontaneity of the camino and its daily duties.
There IS no oversight authority, beyond the normal governments that are responsible for all public infrastructure in their jurisdictions. So, they will prioritize projects on the basis of the needs of their populations.those responsible for Camino infrastructure
True, and this means that the responsibility lies with the villages and towns on the Camino to ensure that no pilgrim is left without a bed or forced to destroy their budget by paying for accomodation they can't afford.There IS no oversight authority, beyond the normal governments that are responsible for all public infrastructure in their jurisdictions. So, they will prioritize projects on the basis of the needs of their populations.
Isn't that is what has already been happening to "some" folks? It may take time for the needs of the various infrastructures to "sort it all out", and find and implement solutions.True, and this means that the responsibility lies with the villages and towns on the Camino to ensure that no pilgrim is left without a bed or forced to destroy their budget by paying for accomodation they can't afford.
Yes, bureaucracy works at a snail's pace, particularly at local level. But Camino towns have had that responsibility of caring for pilgrims for a thousand years, and one destroyed Camino or one pilgrim deterred from their walk is one too many. It's not difficult to come up with solutions or to implement them swirly.Isn't that is what has already been happening to "some" folks? It may take time for the needs of the various infrastructures to "sort it all out", and find and implement solutions.
I was considering the Invierno this morning but didn't have the brainenergy to figure out where it was, so am in Cacabelos instead.I am walking from Le Puy this year, leaving in mid-September, then on to Irun, the Vasco Interior to Burgos, the Frances to Ponferrada, and the Invierno to Santiago. I expect the first section: a month on the Podiensis, to be crowded and to have to book ahead. After that, hopefully not so many days from Irun, the Frances emptying out in mid-October, and another wonderful walk on the Invierno. I shall have enough money to book private rooms, where available. But I shall try to accustom myself once again to the uncertainty of walking camino routes. I think that this is not something new for many of us. We don't necessarily know every day how the day will go, or the night. That is part of the pilgrimage.
The route to the Invierno starts at Ponferrada. If you stay in the albergue Guiana you will see the first markings for the route on the bridge which is just a few steps away.I was considering the Invierno this morning but didn't have the brainenergy to figure out where it was, so am in Cacabelos instead.
Ahh, Cacabelos! This beautiful place will take good care of your brainenergy, a swim in the river, a nice dinner at one of the many restaurants, with a glass of cool Verdejo....gosh I envy you.I was considering the Invierno this morning but didn't have the brainenergy to figure out where it was, so am in Cacabelos instead.
Hard agree. The Frances is very commercialised now. I mean souvenir shops in small towns? It’s Disneyland now. What a pity.I began the Frances in St. JPdP May 13th, 2022 with the goal of finishing at Muxia.
I stopped in Leon due to difficulties/worries about finding bed. It broke my heart.
I walked the Frances in 2018 & 2019 to Finesteirre (2018) and Muxia (2019).
Never before did I have people warn me about the potential of sleeping out in parks, on church floors, etc. as I approached/arrived in Santiago.
As a small, not-young, single female traveling alone those options did not seem wise.
Never before did I think about calling ahead for reservations or using booking.com.
Almost no one spoke of taking taxis/buses to get to the location where their baggage was being ported ... a place they had reserved last February.
This year, it seems to be more the norm.
I'm attributing these changes to the pent-up demand by pilgrims who could not come for the past 2 years due to COVID.
But I fear that the changes may be reflective of a transition of the Camino from a pilgrimage to a tourist experience.
Thank you. It's quite chilly today, big change from a week ago.Ahh, Cacabelos! This beautiful place will take good care of your brainenergy, a swim in the river, a nice dinner at one of the many restaurants, with a glass of cool Verdejo....gosh I envy you.
Buen Camino
Hi, I walked the CF from 18 May to 2 June from SJPP to Santiago. Previously I walked the same route in 2019,2020,2021.The question is in the post title and regards the Frances. (But, those experienced on other routes can feel free to chime in though all readers would appreciate identification of the route upon which you comment!)
The top three things that one notices would be more than enough!
I have not been around here much for awhile as 'life intrudes' and so other priorities dominate my attention.
Further, upon checking in, I see little to offer on posted threads as I regard my past experience as severely out-dated and of little regard. (Though I am bemused to a certain extent by posts which implicitly suggest that avenues exist to experience the "best" of the Way.)
Certainly not a post in need of urgent response as I am well away (sadly) from being able to plan another walk. However, in a rare moment of idleness, I find myself curious.
Thanks in advance,
B
This is a fanciful notion, and needs to be challenged. Local councils are primarily responsible to their local residents, not to pilgrims. Others might provide background on how the establishment of albergues by parishes, associations and dedicated individuals made it possible for pilgrims without the financial resources to afford private hostel and hotel accommodation to undertake a pilgrimage. That higher levels of government, like the Xunta in Galicia, have stepped in to supplement pilgrim accommodation does not make it the responsibility of every village or town along the pilgrim routes.True, and this means that the responsibility lies with the villages and towns on the Camino to ensure that no pilgrim is left without a bed or forced to destroy their budget by paying for accomodation they can't afford.
I just returned from the Camino PrimitivoThe question is in the post title and regards the Frances. (But, those experienced on other routes can feel free to chime in though all readers would appreciate identification of the route upon which you comment!)
The top three things that one notices would be more than enough!
I have not been around here much for awhile as 'life intrudes' and so other priorities dominate my attention.
Further, upon checking in, I see little to offer on posted threads as I regard my past experience as severely out-dated and of little regard. (Though I am bemused to a certain extent by posts which implicitly suggest that avenues exist to experience the "best" of the Way.)
Certainly not a post in need of urgent response as I am well away (sadly) from being able to plan another walk. However, in a rare moment of idleness, I find myself curious.
Thanks in advance,
B
This post uses very dramatic words that don't reflect reality.The bed shortage is a serious problem and it needs to be dealt with.
Not finding a bed can be a catastrophe ... It can mean sleeping out, which is daunting for those in poor health, or without such experience, or without the necessary gear.
The fear and stress compromises the Camino for many more; pilgrims are forced to reserve, which causes difficulty for them and for albergues when reservations collapse due to illness, injury or weather; the dreadful bed-race destroys the cameraderei of the Camino very fast.
Worse, people have the heartbreak of ending their Camino midway and many more are deterred from undertaking their cherished pigrimage by fear ... of prices, bed shortages, the stress of it all.
The question is: what are those responsible for Camino infrastructure (whom I admire beyond measure for their selfless devotion to the Camino ideals) going to do about this? Another survey perhaps?
We’re on the Frances now and there isn’t too much talk of covid. You see a few masks in the towns and in pharmacies but that’s about it. We’ve heard of a few pilgrims that tested positive and stayed in a private room for a few days before heading out.The question is in the post title and regards the Frances. (But, those experienced on other routes can feel free to chime in though all readers would appreciate identification of the route upon which you comment!)
The top three things that one notices would be more than enough!
I have not been around here much for awhile as 'life intrudes' and so other priorities dominate my attention.
Further, upon checking in, I see little to offer on posted threads as I regard my past experience as severely out-dated and of little regard. (Though I am bemused to a certain extent by posts which implicitly suggest that avenues exist to experience the "best" of the Way.)
Certainly not a post in need of urgent response as I am well away (sadly) from being able to plan another walk. However, in a rare moment of idleness, I find myself curious.
Thanks in advance,
B
I wonder if this pattern will accelerate or recede as things begin to come into a new balance on the Camino.there are still a great many pilgrims that walk with a similar mindset that could be found 10 years ago they are greatly overshadowed by the number of pilgrims that are either repeat walkers or hyper planners and that does have an effect on the spontaneity of the camino and its daily duties.
A catastrophe? Plenty of pilgrims (even now) sleep under church porches without incident. And it's a reality for many people on this sad planet right now - so it's not a bad thing to experience the mild vulnerability of not sleeping in 'normal' accommodations. Having done that makes it easier to walk in someone else's shoes, and to be genuinely compassionate towards others. That compassion's reason enough to go on pilgrimage, and a great blessing if it arises.Not finding a bed can be a catastrophe ... It can mean sleeping out, which is daunting for those in poor health, or without such experience, or without the necessary gear.
II perhaps should have known this, having previously walked in Norway, where other pilgrims are fewer, and I had mentally prepared myself prior to those to walk alone as a matter of course. And on my previous CF, where I had used more private accommodation, I had the company of my wife, so this issue didn't arise.
Second, I lost touch with other pilgrims that I did meet along the way when I had managed to stay in albergues. Some of this would have happened anyway as I was doing shorter days than many others, and one doesn't expect that everyone will use the same accommodation night after night. Perhaps that might have changed if I had been more willing to walk with a 'camino family' but that isn't generally something I consider.
I don't have information about trails in Norway, but the Hærvejen is an ancient trail that has been adapted to walking and cycling in Denmark, with lots of accommodations along the way, and it is also signed as a Camino de Santiago.(if you want to answer this off-topic question privately or elsewhere (or not at all!), feel free)
I'm interested to walk in Norway in a Camino-like way, can you suggest online resources to find paths or plan? Thank you!
Have a look at threads in the forum section for "Other long distance routes". There is a sub-forum about St Olav's Way in Norway..I'm interested to walk in Norway in a Camino-like way, can you suggest online resources to find paths or plan?
Of course it is more commercialized now but there is a very good reason for this. People come, no matter what their intentions are be it a "true" pilgrim or "touragrino". Personally I have stopped caring about these labels. It is what it is. People come and business grows. It is nothing like a corporate takeover of the CF. From what I have seen it is just Spaniards seizing on an opportunity to open a business to support their families and themselves. There is a very simple solution to people who are frustrated or angry about their idea of pilgrimage, which you may have already done. Walk a different camino. I have walked in France from Le Puy and the Via De La Plata and Mickey Mouse is nowhere to be found. This October I will walk the Aragones to Logrono and then, depending on the albergue situation take a train to Madrid and walk the Camino Madrid and rejoin the Frances. There are lots and lots of beautiful caminos to walk and seek absolute solitude throughout Spain, Portugal and France. I am sure in other countries too. I don't like the crowds but I have the luxury of walking when I want as I am retired. There are all those southern Spain caminos where one can have solitude and simplicity which is what I seek. Check it out.Hard agree. The Frances is very commercialised now. I mean souvenir shops in small towns? It’s Disneyland now. What a pity.
We will be just a bit ahead of you on the Le Puy. Start walking Sept 4th. We are from Victoria BCI am walking from Le Puy this year, leaving in mid-September, then on to Irun, the Vasco Interior to Burgos, the Frances to Ponferrada, and the Invierno to Santiago. I expect the first section: a month on the Podiensis, to be crowded and to have to book ahead. After that, hopefully not so many days from Irun, the Frances emptying out in mid-October, and another wonderful walk on the Invierno. I shall have enough money to book private rooms, where available. But I shall try to accustom myself once again to the uncertainty of walking camino routes. I think that this is not something new for many of us. We don't necessarily know every day how the day will go, or the night. That is part of the pilgrimage.
The difference? I now don’t feel comfortable sleeping in albergues, in dormitaries with lots of other pilgrims.The question is in the post title and regards the Frances. (But, those experienced on other routes can feel free to chime in though all readers would appreciate identification of the route upon which you comment!)
The top three things that one notices would be more than enough!
I have not been around here much for awhile as 'life intrudes' and so other priorities dominate my attention.
Further, upon checking in, I see little to offer on posted threads as I regard my past experience as severely out-dated and of little regard. (Though I am bemused to a certain extent by posts which implicitly suggest that avenues exist to experience the "best" of the Way.)
Certainly not a post in need of urgent response as I am well away (sadly) from being able to plan another walk. However, in a rare moment of idleness, I find myself curious.
Thanks in advance,
B
Well as a planner you are incorrect about walking in fear. We walked completely free of concern about where we would rest our heads at night and walked slowly and mindfully, Those who were stressed were pilgrims without reservations who in certain sections couldn’t find a bed and were having to walk well beyond their anticipated distances.Apart from the early May and September waves that can be easily avoided the only people stressing and walking in fear are the hyper planners and the inexperienced pilgrims who listen to them.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?