camino.ninja
RIP 2022
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances 5 6,16,17,18,19,20
Primiti+Salvador 19
Portug. 17,18,20
Catalan 17
Norte 17
Plata 18
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I'm not understanding why a sleeping pad would be necessary. If albergues have to operate at less than capacity doesn't mean that they will have more than enough beds??
There is a set of proposed albergue protocols linked on this thread. They include a suggestion that pilgrims carry their own sleeping bag in one place, and in another that disposable bedding will be provided. I am sure that this will lead to another round of debate. As someone who has always carried a sleeping bag and liner, I don't see it making any difference personally. But clearly those who have been reluctant in the past to consider carrying bedding will seek further guidance on this.
Perhaps the absolute minimum is going to be a full length hooded liner, sometimes now marketed as a 'traveller liner'. It provides a cover from head to toe. Past forum discussion around this suggests that many walking in the warmer months will find this sufficient, even if blankets are no longer being provided.
Whether or not to take a sleeping mat seems to really be a personal choice. Unsurprisingly, it isn't part of the published albergue protocol, which assumes that there will be a bed available. There has been some useful recent discussion about camping, where clearly one would consider taking a mattress of some sort. Personally, I would be looking for other options, either walking on or looking locally for other accommodation, if an albergue where full. A my age, cowboy camping is something I am prepared to concede should be consigned to romanticised memories of my youth.
There is a set of proposed albergue protocols linked on this thread. They include a suggestion that pilgrims carry their own sleeping bag in one place, and in another that disposable bedding will be provided. I am sure that this will lead to another round of debate. As someone who has always carried a sleeping bag and liner, I don't see it making any difference personally. But clearly those who have been reluctant in the past to consider carrying bedding will seek further guidance on this.
Perhaps the absolute minimum is going to be a full length hooded liner, sometimes now marketed as a 'traveller liner'. It provides a cover from head to toe. Past forum discussion around this suggests that many walking in the warmer months will find this sufficient, even if blankets are no longer being provided.
Whether or not to take a sleeping mat seems to really be a personal choice. Unsurprisingly, it isn't part of the published albergue protocol, which assumes that there will be a bed available. There has been some useful recent discussion about camping, where clearly one would consider taking a mattress of some sort. Personally, I would be looking for other options, either walking on or looking locally for other accommodation, if an albergue where full. A my age, cowboy camping is something I am prepared to concede should be consigned to romanticised memories of my youth.
If you want to go cowboy camping in church doorways, that is a personal choice, hardly lateral thinking. I didn't deny it was an option, just expressed a preference not to do it. Perhaps it isn't age related, but still my preference!Do some lateral thinking ole buddy!
Do some lateral thinking ole buddy! I use an ultra lightweight inflatable mat EXPED) which weighs next to nothing! It doesn't need a pump thanks to that wonderful invention the Snozzle bagI don't use Albergues so its a room or nothing with the nothing being Church doorways etc. Hence the mat! It used to come in very handy for airport floors as well! As to age and cowboy camping, at 82 I am no cowboy and my romance with the Camino started when I was 65, so there!
Yours aye,
The Malingerer.
Thank you so much for this!
How about pillows? I think I read somewhere that pillows will not be provided either... do you know if this is true?
Great idea to make the new list of things we will need.
I would add disposable gloves - hhmm, and possibly a larger rucksack?
View attachment 77032
If you want to go cowboy camping in church doorways
I use an ultra lightweight inflatable mat EXPED
I don't agree with this, and the reasons are simple.@dougfitz it's not really about planning for cowboy camping (even though I love that), it's more about being prepared for the unforeseen. Like a scout.
I have just retired from the medical profession remember it is recommended to wash or sanitize after each glove use. We make and bottle our own hand sanitizer which is accessible on the outside of our ruck sacks.Great idea to make the new list of things we will need.
I would add disposable gloves - hhmm, and possibly a larger rucksack?
View attachment 77032
I don't agree with this, and the reasons are simple.
To deal with the second statement, that this is preparing for the unforeseen. The circumstance where there is no albergue accommodation are entirely foreseeable, and to some extent the camino won't change in any fundamental way on this score because of COVID 19 restrictions. I have walked the Camino Frances twice, and both times there were full albergues. Perhaps the proposed restrictions will make that more likely, but even if it does, it is not new. I would contend that one needs a strategy for these circumstances, just as one always has. Part of that might be finding a quite place like a railway station, church porch or the like. I have never had to do that. So far when an albergue bed hasn't been available, I have:
Will this 'escalation pathway' strategy continue to work if there are greater restrictions. Clearly I cannot tell that it will always be successful - only time will tell. Clearly taking a sleeping mat as well can be part of that pattern if you would rather avoid some of the more expensive elements of the approach that I have outlined.
- checked the next albergue in the town - it helps to start looking at the first albergue one comes to in a town for that to work,
- checked into a local hostel, or even a hotel,
- rung forward to check that there is still an albergue bed in the next town and walked on,
- walked on just on just the same without checking, and
- found accommodation off the camino route and arranged a vehicle transfer there and back the next day.
This leads back to your first point, I don't think that it means you are intending to cowboy camp for the whole of the Camino, but clearly by taking a sleep pad or inflatable mattress, you have a plan to use that should the circumstances warrant doing so. After all, if you weren't planning to cowboy camp in those circumstances, why would you carry the mat? Makes no sense to me.
I am not challenging your or anyone else's choice to carry a mat. What I am suggesting is that I see it as just one element of the escalation pathway when one is faced with a full albergue. It should also be clear from my comments that I don't see this as anything new. It happened to me regularly enough in 2010 and somewhat less frequently in 2016 on the Camino Frances. There is every prospect that it will happen again with or without CDOVID 19 related restrictions. Perhaps more frequently with them, and perhaps on other routes where it will be more problematic, and each of us will need to work out how we want to deal with that.
Masks are currently mandatory in places suchlike in Spain.And I intend to carry my little mask in my pocket until I reach town and assess what the local choice is for that...possibly people will be wearing them inside shops and suchlike. Possibly also in churches during Mass.
Um, is it necessary to be so, um, astringent? You may not intend so but you sound like you think your thought is the only one true proper way to do $ACTIVITY. (Insert activity of choice here.) Perhaps you don't intend to sound like that.
Sleeping pads, which you seem firmly in favor of, are not absolutely necessary...though as we get older the idea of sleeping on a floor with the bag sounds less comfortable. Still, the pad is not absolutely necessary and some people will prefer to have different strategies.
For myself, if it becomes possible to walk before next year, I intend to try hard to avoid staying in the group accommodations. Not only does it seem to me like common sense, it probably helps out the local economy a bit more. And I intend to carry my little mask in my pocket until I reach town and assess what the local choice is for that...possibly people will be wearing them inside shops and suchlike. Possibly also in churches during Mass.
But it is only June and too soon to tell "si Dios quiere, y no hay inundacion." (My attempt to translate "God willing, and the creek don't rise.")
Buen camino to all
Ooh dear, someone getting just a teeny bit twitchy here, must be lockdown fever.
Well said @TincatinkerMODERATOR'S NOTE
For many years Moderators noted that for most of March through to October members posts covered topics of planning, walking or recovering from a camino. Members were friendly, supportive and sympathetic. November through February without those comforting distractions things on the forum got a little more fractious as Members squabbled over back-pack weights, the correct way to order a coffee and the true meaning of meaning. We used to call that period "Fighting Season".
I for one would be a happier Moderator if Members chose not to extend Fighting Season to the whole year even though they cannot make more than the vaguest of plans, have little prospect of walking and have nothing to recover from more than some vigorous typing.
Buen (future) camino all.
MODERATOR'S NOTE
For many years Moderators noted that for most of March through to October members posts covered topics of planning, walking or recovering from a camino. Members were friendly, supportive and sympathetic. November through February without those comforting distractions things on the forum got a little more fractious as Members squabbled over back-pack weights, the correct way to order a coffee and the true meaning of meaning. We used to call that period "Fighting Season".
I for one would be a happier Moderator if Members chose not to extend Fighting Season to the whole year even though they cannot make more than the vaguest of plans, have little prospect of walking and have nothing to recover from more than some vigorous typing.
Buen (future) camino all.
I try to remind myself, especially when I am feeling murderous, that, this is not Fighting Season but pandemic season.I for one would be a happier Moderator if Members chose not to extend Fighting Season to the whole year
I saw this picture of a mask vending machine in Portugal, and saw a couple of stories about mask and sanitizer gel vending machines in Spain.
The masks from this machine are 4/1€View attachment 77088
But unless you are sleeping at those all the way, I will recommend bringing a sleeping bag because, there will be no blankets. In the mountains and on the meseta it can be 35C during the day and 10C during the night in high summer. So, nighttime will feel freezing.
LOL! It always makes me chuckle when I see people post that they think 10C (50F) is freezing. Sorry, couldn’t help myself. For us thats shorts and t-shirt weather.
Stay happy fellow pilgrims. There’s enough stress and anger going around without arguing over packing a sleeping pad. To each their own.
Peace
A credit card is the lightest weight survival kit you can carry and will get you out of almost any unexpected situation, especially accommodation ones. Newspaper and cardboard for those who don't have a card.
I may certainly be incorrect, but I believe that even when Spain enforced a lockdown, they didn't require foreigners who happened to be in the country to sleep outside. I think arrangements were made for them. If you have different information, I'm certainly open to hearing it. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about something.Except during lockdowns like this where all hotels and public transport is being shut down over night. Your credit card becomes worthless.
At home I always use my credit card, because I can use the points that I earn for my flights to Spain!I always use cash when I can but during the lockdown nobody would take it so I ended up using my credit/debit card all the time, I would assume other countries were the same. I still have neary the same amount of cash in my wallet as I had 3 months ago.
We don't have that system here unfortunately.At home I always use my credit card, because I can use the points that I earn for my flights to Spain!
Apart from the Iberian peninsula where cash is king! Though it may have to change with Covid19.A credit card is the lightest weight survival kit you can carry and will get you out of almost any unexpected situation, especially accommodation ones. Newspaper and cardboard for those who don't have a card.
I always had the impression that the reason "cash is king" is because of the extra expenses of the infrastructure and security issues that inevitably come up with credit card acceptance. The really small businesses just didn't have the wherewithal to get into the credit card zone, so to speak. We only used the card at major places like Compostela or Madrid--and only when staying in something that was larger and more set up for that.Apart from the Iberian peninsula where cash is king! Though it may have to change with Covid19.
Apart from the Iberian peninsula where cash is king! Though it may have to change with Covid19.
Except during lockdowns like this where all hotels and public transport is being shut down over night. Your credit card becomes worthless.
I was only cought out once,the Camino likes to go through the "old town" ,and I'd been to the Correos in Sarria to post excess luggage in my rucksack,and forgot I needed cash,anyway I was saved by my Camino angel,I spent the night with a 79 year old American lady,!I always had the impression that the reason "cash is king" is because of the extra expenses of the infrastructure and security issues that inevitably come up with credit card acceptance. The really small businesses just didn't have the wherewithal to get into the credit card zone, so to speak. We only used the card at major places like Compostela or Madrid--and only when staying in something that was larger and more set up for that.
You get used to using cash very quickly,and then back to cards just as quickly after a few days!I always had the impression that the reason "cash is king" is because of the extra expenses of the infrastructure and security issues that inevitably come up with credit card acceptance. The really small businesses just didn't have the wherewithal to get into the credit card zone, so to speak. We only used the card at major places like Compostela or Madrid--and only when staying in something that was larger and more set up for that.
Simply because one doesn't need to pack one's fears, and never has. The fear-mongering, doom-saying and gas-lighting now evident in this tread is rather alarming. Yes, some of these extreme events might occur, but let me ask how likely do you think they are, and whether carrying the extra weight of a sleeping mat is the best treatment strategy? For some it might be, others might have the financial resources to pursue different strategies that don't add excessively to their pack weight.Final charge at that Land Rover. If you going to carry a sleeping bag why on earth would you not carry a roll mat, cut down or otherwise. A very light weight insurance policy.
Don
Just throwing a thought out there.
I keep visualising a rhinoceros who cannot help himself charging the Land Rover again and again, even though he knows that every time, all he gets is a headache.
Is it just me?
My wife and I look at this as a form of travel savings. We find it a very effective way to make provision for our future trips. We review the arrangements every year, and we continue to think we are getting good value from the them even when all the various costs are considered.At home I always use my credit card, because I can use the points that I earn for my flights to Spain!
The card I use doesn't have a fee, and I pay the balance each month before any interest accrues, so there is no extra cost.My wife and I look at this as a form of travel savings. We find it a very effective way to make provision for our future trips. We review the arrangements every year, and we continue to think we are getting good value from the them even when all the various costs are considered.
I saw so many pilgrims carrying them from SJPDP, but by León or sooner most had been abandoned.The most abandoned piece of kit I saw in 2012/13 was the sleeping mat/pad, they were left in albergues by the score and more disturbing, along the trail.
I may certainly be incorrect, but I believe that even when Spain enforced a lockdown, they didn't require foreigners who happened to be in the country to sleep outside. I think arrangements were made for them. If you have different information, I'm certainly open to hearing it. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about something.
I always use cash when I can but during the lockdown nobody would take it so I ended up using my credit/debit card all the time, I would assume other countries were the same. I still have neary the same amount of cash in my wallet as I had 3 months ago.
I went on my first camino in 2016. I carried a sleeping bag, roll mat and bivvy bag. You will note this was way before Covid 19. So far from "carrying my fears" or being "fear mongering" or "doom saying" it was and is simply a way of avoiding pre- planned stages, crowded or closed albergues and providing a freedom of the road that I believe the Camino is partly all about. Also this obsession with weight is silly. You carry what you feel you need for safety, comfort and necessity. The weight of my pack has always been easily manageable, I have always been able to put in long days if I felt like it and I have never worried about where I was going to sleep. Fine if people do not want the added "weight" of a roll mat or sleeping bag - no one is forced to carry them. How on earth is any of that related to fear mongering or doom saying. Strange world.
Don.
Lock down in UK 4th July partially ends - Cotswold Way (100 miles) here I come, sleeping bag, roll mat and bivvy included.
Hi Don,I'm guessing the Cotswold Way is mostly off road,I didn't think weight would be an issue,but we're not designed to pound pavements for any length of time,I went on my first camino in 2016. I carried a sleeping bag, roll mat and bivvy bag. You will note this was way before Covid 19. So far from "carrying my fears" or being "fear mongering" or "doom saying" it was and is simply a way of avoiding pre- planned stages, crowded or closed albergues and providing a freedom of the road that I believe the Camino is partly all about. Also this obsession with weight is silly. You carry what you feel you need for safety, comfort and necessity. The weight of my pack has always been easily manageable, I have always been able to put in long days if I felt like it and I have never worried about where I was going to sleep. Fine if people do not want the added "weight" of a roll mat or sleeping bag - no one is forced to carry them. How on earth is any of that related to fear mongering or doom saying. Strange world.
Don.
Lock down in UK 4th July partially ends - Cotswold Way (100 miles) here I come, sleeping bag, roll mat and bivvy included.
I bet they were the cheap foam ones which many people feel obliged to carry! My exped inflatable weighs 400g and is in its pouch and stowed away in my mochilla. The snozzle bag doubles up as a dry-bag. I doubt very much you will find those discarded! I find the cheap disposable ponchos to be as big a menace. Like you say it is disturbing and does the pilgrim image no good at all.The most abandoned piece of kit I saw in 2012/13 was the sleeping mat/pad, they were left in albergues by the score and more disturbing, along the trail.
I bet they were the cheap foam ones which many people feel obliged to carry! My exped inflatable weighs 400g and is in its pouch and stowed away in my mochilla. The snozzle bag doubles up as a dry-bag. I doubt very much you will find those discarded! I find the cheap disposable ponchos to be as big a menace. Like you say it is disturbing and does the pilgrim image no good at all.
The malingerer.
I walked 30+ caminos and have never seen sleeping pads left along the trail. The only gear I can think of I have seen left on the trail is shoes.
I think that you need to walk at least 45 Caminos before starting to see sleeping pads. You are getting closer...
30+? And the only discard you’ve seen is shoes? I’d love a list. The Ditch Pigs would know where their service was redundant.
I haven't seen sleeping pads discarded along the trail, but they get discarded somewhere, based on the number of pilgrims that I've seen start the Camino with one, but finish without a sleeping pad.
Hi Ninja, no one is denying your right to bring what ever you like on your Camino so why be so strident in defending your opinion against others’ opinions that are equally valid. Peace!@Texas Walker I'm not trying to say my strategy is righter than anyone else’s, actually, for me, it is not about strategy. It is about giving a good advice, and as such making people aware of the situation so they can make their own decision.
I think your strategy is good as far as choosing hotels all the way and making reservations in advance will heighten your chances of getting a place every night compared to not having reservations at all. You might even have less chance of exposure, who knows really. And supporting locals is a good thing to do.
But if there will be a second wave of outbreak and Spain will use the same strategy as they just did with the current outbreak, all hotels and all public transport will be shut down overnight.
So, even though I'm with you on your strategy, I would still bring a sleeping pad.
And on a side note; personally, I prefer albergues. I walked a Camino in January and one in March this year and did not see any sick people on either the French or the Portuguese Caminos. It seems like the outbreaks where mostly in bigger cities with airports and some cases where locals traveled and came back and spread the virus in their community.
For me, 70 F is about perfect. Lived in the West Indies for awhile and found it just right. Now in the PNW. Seldom gets WAY low, but often chillier than I like.Nobody said 10c is freezing. Somebody said a 25c temperature difference between day and night FEELS freezing. And at 10c people would most likely prefer a sleeping bag anyway.
I made a few additions to my Packing List and thought it might be helpful for anyone planing on walking the camino now
- Masks
- Hand Sanitizer
- Sleeping Bag
- Sleeping Pad
- Contactless Credit/Debit Card
Thank you! I don’t believe there is one correct way to walk the Camino. Patience, flow, adapt,respect the journey and each other, walk in peace. Ahhhhhh!MODERATOR'S NOTE
For many years Moderators noted that for most of March through to October members posts covered topics of planning, walking or recovering from a camino. Members were friendly, supportive and sympathetic. November through February without those comforting distractions things on the forum got a little more fractious as Members squabbled over back-pack weights, the correct way to order a coffee and the true meaning of meaning. We used to call that period "Fighting Season".
I for one would be a happier Moderator if Members chose not to extend Fighting Season to the whole year even though they cannot make more than the vaguest of plans, have little prospect of walking and have nothing to recover from more than some vigorous typing.
Buen (future) camino all.
I like this ...............I think this way too; and, it's always nice come accross another 'mature' walker, that shares my values...Do some lateral thinking ole buddy! I use an ultra lightweight inflatable mat EXPED) which weighs next to nothing! It doesn't need a pump thanks to that wonderful invention the Snozzle bagI don't use Albergues so its a room or nothing with the nothing being Church doorways etc. Hence the mat! It used to come in very handy for airport floors as well! As to age and cowboy camping, at 82 I am no cowboy and my romance with the Camino started when I was 65, so there!
Yours aye,
The Malingerer.
This might sound like a stupid question, but will one be required to wear a mask at night while sleeping in the albergues or is social distance enough? Is a mask necessary when inside any building, public or private right now?
I don't know how you can draw your conclusion! It obviously depends on whether or not you CAN keep that required distance. Sometime you can't, in which case you would need to wear the mask whether you are sleeping or awake. Furthermore, if the albergue decides that you must, by their rules, then you must!Well ...the crazy thing is ...some albergues have interpreted the rules like that. But the real rule is, you have to wear a mask inside when you cannot keep a 2-meter distance. And also, for check-in. So, you are not supposed to sleep with a mask on. Some albergues might tell you to, but they are not right. Just like bars and restaurants are open for dining inside with a 2-meter social distance to other tables.
Hi Ninja, no one is denying your right to bring what ever you like on your Camino so why be so strident in defending your opinion against others’ opinions that are equally valid. Peace!
I don't know how you can draw your conclusion! It obviously depends on whether or not you CAN keep that required distance. Sometime you can't, if which case you would need to wear the mask whether you are sleeping or awake. Furthermore, if the albergue decides that you must, by their rules, then you must!
Which is why I'm in no hurry to spend my time and money planning a Camino in these uncertain times, no matter how much I am craving it.And then there is the element of a new situation. Spain just had a State of Alert. Military and Police where sent in to enforce orders by the government shutting down bars, restaurants, hotels, hostels, albergues etc. Airports and public transport got shut down. And all that might happen again.
Which is why I'm in no hurry to spend my time and money planning a Camino in these uncertain times, no matter how much I am craving it.
Someone once said bad decissions makes great adventures.
have made a host of very bad decisions in my life! I only discovered they were great adventures AFTER I had recovered from them!I sometimes think my decision making is on the same level as my planning i.e. great at the time but wonderful for throwing out the window once you get started!
The Malingerer.
I think that was part of a famous quote,I'm sure someone on here,will keep me right!A young guy asked me some years ago how to prevent getting old. And without thinking about it I just answerd: "Do not learn from your mistakes". I sure thought a lot about it afterwards, and I think it might helps me keep younger at mind. So you might got something valuable right there.
I think that was part of a famous quote,I'm sure someone on here,will keep me right!
- Contactless Credit/Debit Card
I don’t think it takes much in the way of reading the tea leaves to predict that the former mantra of “cash is king” on the camino will be a thing of the past. This will have the unintended benefit of regularizing more transactions in which proprietors were able to avoid declaration of income with a cash transaction.
Quarantine the coins for 72 hours,or have honesty boxes,like the ones in the Norwegian huts!I'm not sure how this would work at donativo albergues. Maybe boil the coins and put any bills into a bag or box to dry out for a few days? I don't believe that paper can retain the SARS-CoV-2 virus for very long: plastic bills are another issue.
I find a good quote is like a stray animal. It sticks around in one's head without ever reminding you where it came from.Would not be surpriced. Or at least it should be.
I find a good quote is like a stray animal. It sticks around in one's head without ever reminding you where it came from.
Quarantine the coins for 72 hours,or have honesty boxes,like the ones in the Norwegian huts!
I'm not sure how this would work at donativo albergues. Maybe boil the coins and put any bills into a bag or box to dry out for a few days? I don't believe that paper can retain the SARS-CoV-2 virus for very long: plastic bills are another issue.
Quarantine the coins for 72 hours,or have honesty boxes,like the ones in the Norwegian huts!
The box, available in many Donativos, Hurtas, Mountain Huts & Bothies, where honest users can leave their honest contribution to the cost of maintaining the facility. Or, like my local Apiarist's Honesty Box where anyone who wants a jar of his Honey is expected to leave their cash, or like the box my neighbour puts out to collect donations to charity in exchange for the plants he grows and nurtures.What are honesty boxes?
Euro notes are machine washable. You may want to watch this video Euro Banknotes - Made to last by the European Central Bank. ☺The coins can just be handwashed or disinfected with hand sanitizer. But the paper bills are cannot be washed really. Any ideas?
I don’t think it takes much in the way of reading the tea leaves to predict that the former mantra of “cash is king” on the camino will be a thing of the past. This will have the unintended benefit of regularizing more transactions in which proprietors were able to avoid declaration of income with a cash transaction.
The Runes say nothing ever changes. The Entrails suggest decay. The Geese have flown over the water. The Sphinx recommends delay. “There’s no future” sang Sid, and the things that he did made him right in his way on that day
Nobody said 10c is freezing. Somebody said a 25c temperature difference between day and night FEELS freezing. And at 10c people would most likely prefer a sleeping bag anyway.
Not sure if this has been raised elsewhere but putting it up for information
View attachment 77826
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