Doug and Elaine on the Camino Frances

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
My wife and I have firmed up our plan to walk the Camino Frances in 2016. Our plan is to start in SJPP on 2 May, and progress slowly, so I expect to see many of you passing us along the way or seeing you in towns and villages when we are having a break.
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Jul 1, 2009
4,360
19,764
Norway
Time of past OR future Camino
2009-2022: CFx6, CP, VdlPx2, Mozarabe, more later.
My wife and I have firmed up our plan to walk the Camino Frances in 2016. Our plan is to start in SJPP on 2 May, and progress slowly, so I expect to see many of you passing us along the way or seeing you in towns and villages when we are having a break.
A good feeling to have started, no? So have I: 4 weeks Spanish course in Alicante starting March 28, and then off to some Camino for language practise and reflectful walking.

Buen Camino to both of you!
 
Last edited:
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
Jul 18, 2014
13,975
57,949
Time of past OR future Camino
Yearly and Various 2014-2019
Via Monastica 2022
Great news. Ultreia and Buen Camino, Doug and Elaine!
I will have already left a month or so before you begin, so I will be sorry not to pass or be passed by the 2 of you.
my next year looks like it might be a stay-at-home one.
More time for planning (and moderating...:confused:)??
 
  • Like
Reactions: dougfitz
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-

Kanga

Veteran Member
Jun 2, 2005
10,382
29,270
Sydney, Australia
www.jillhill.com.au
Time of past OR future Camino
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
@Viranani or looking after the second set of expected twin grandchildren! @Alan Pearce, no, I'm envious of Doug and Elaine but think I have a wonderful reason to be staying at home.

But, please, lets not hijack Doug's thread, it really is a so great for us to be vicariously enjoying their planning.
 
Down bag (90/10 duvet) of 700 fills with 180 g (6.34 ounces) of filling. Mummy-shaped structure, ideal when you are looking for lightness with great heating performance.

€149,-

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
it really is a so great for us to be vicariously enjoying their planning.
We have most of the coming and going pretty sorted. I will be at San Anton for a week helping out there at the end of Apr, and Elaine and I will then meet up in Pamplona. It now looks like I will spend May Day in Castrojeriz and then get to Pamplona on 2 May and SJPP on 3 May - a day later than I originally intended. We then have a bit over six weeks before we need to be back in London to fly home.

Buen Camino Doug!
I'll be a couple of weeks ahead of you.
If you pass through San Anton before the end of Apr, you might find me there.

Wish you both the very best Doug…..please keep us posted with your usual enjoyable comments.
It's not yet clear how we will stay in touch with the forum, friends and family, but there will be something. I think we will be relying on wifi being available, and if its not falling back on text messages to family. Every year we have travelled, the options have improved wherever we have been, so we are not too concerned about being able to keep in touch.
 

Kanga

Veteran Member
Jun 2, 2005
10,382
29,270
Sydney, Australia
www.jillhill.com.au
Time of past OR future Camino
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
Oh I hope you enjoy San Anton Doug, we had such fun staying there this year. We all had to sing something from our own country after the communal dinner and everyone got into the mood and it was a hoot. I sang (!) that good old sea shanty "Bound for Botany Bay" and my friend Robyn, who is a primary school teacher, had everyone doing a follow-my-actions clapping chanting song. One fellow turned out to have the most beautiful bass voice and it was haunting listening in the candlelight. Good memories.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-

susanawee

susanawee
Aug 3, 2012
825
1,175
76
Perth...Western Australia.
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances-(2013/14/18
Camino Salvado Perth -(2015)
West Highland Way (2016)
Lyon France 2017
My wife and I have firmed up our plan to walk the Camino Frances in 2016. Our plan is to start in SJPP on 2 May, and progress slowly, so I expect to see many of you passing us along the way or seeing you in towns and villages when we are having a break.
I will be following your journey Doug.....Buen Camino...
 
Jul 18, 2014
13,975
57,949
Time of past OR future Camino
Yearly and Various 2014-2019
Via Monastica 2022
Doug and Elaine...fantastic--6 whole weeks.
I will be about a month ahead of you so will be following your journey and sending good wishes from further away.
Ultreia! (and with much gladness on your behalf...)
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 6, 2006
20,577
55,659
Champaign, Illinois, USA
How did I miss this thread? Must have been too busy with Catalan independence. :mad:Sounds like a great Camino, Doug. Lucky, too, that you have so much time. I'll be interested in hearing whether you think the sequence hospitalero-walk works well. I have always thought that when I finally have the time to do that, I would want to walk first -- were there reasons you chose this way? Buen camino! Laurie
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
We walked into Santiago this morning. A big thank you to all those that helped us, including @Rebekah Scott for being available to talk to at a couple of really difficult times. Mike and Sandy also have our special thanks. Mike is a forum member, and will know I am talking about him even if I don't use his forum name. Both of us are thankful for the support he and Sandy gave us.

This was a quite different pilgrimage to those I have done previously, and I will need to mull over some things now my pilgrimage is over. But underneath the differences I still think there is something about the nature of the camino that hasn't changed that makes the experience so rewarding.
 

movinmaggie

Veteran Member
Jan 6, 2015
1,624
2,439
Victoria, BC Canada
Time of past OR future Camino
2015
We walked into Santiago this morning. A big thank you to all those that helped us, including @Rebekah Scott for being available to talk to at a couple of really difficult times. Mike and Sandy also have our special thanks. Mike is a forum member, and will know I am talking about him even if I don't use his forum name. Both of us are thankful for the support he and Sandy gave us.

This was a quite different pilgrimage to those I have done previously, and I will need to mull over some things now my pilgrimage is over. But underneath the differences I still think there is something about the nature of the camino that hasn't changed that makes the experience so rewarding.
Doug, wonderful that you received help from the 'best' - hope you will give some further thoughts of your journey for your forum family……congratulations. Maggie
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Savage
A guide to speaking Spanish on the Camino - enrich your pilgrim experience.

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
We have been back in Australia for about a week now. Most of it has been rather mundane return to work issues, recovering from jet lag, sorting out photos and the GPS log and the like. However, here are a few observations about some of the more interesting discussions in recent weeks.

Real Pilgrims
This post appeared just a few days before we arrived in Sarria. We were walking at a pace where we were unlikely to be overtaking anyone, but were still concerned about the effect that the behaviour reported might have about our own morale as we got closer to Santiago. And there is no doubt that both the increased numbers of pilgrims and some of their behaviour was annoying.

But we saw no parade of taxis, it was impossible to actually identify anyone in the three that we did see and they could have been empty for all we were able to tell. One would have had to have been walking backwards to see if there was anyone in them! And the only pilgrim that we witnessed asking at an albergue for the hospitalero to call a taxi clearly needed assistance. She was also quite clear that she would be returning to the albergue the next day to continue from there.

Yes, there were people walking with the lightest of loads, and a few so morbidly obese that we would not have been surprised if they had taken a taxi, but we didn't witness that happening. We did see some people at a bus stop one morning, but that was about the extent of any use of vehicle transport that we witnessed personally. I formed the opinion that, for all the discussion that this post generated, there might have been more than a little hyperbole in its content.

Beds, booking and dormitories
We never went without a bed, even at the beginning of May when there was extensive discussion about bed shortages. There were eight days that I walked alone, and I was able to find an albergue bed without booking on six of these. On one day of the days that I didn't book, I had to walk on to the next town to find a bed.

Initially at least, we were walking too slowly together to arrive early enough in the afternoon for there to be a reasonable prospect of getting a bed. We tested this proposition in a couple of places, and albergues were already full in the early afternoon when we passed through. As a result, we would book somewhere for the following day when we knew how we were feeling after the current days walk. The exception was from Sarria, where most of the bookings were done a few days out, and we left only one booking to later.

I was happy to sleep in albergue dormitories, but when we were together, we always tried to get a private room. This didn't always work, so we ended up with a pretty full mix from dormitories, private rooms, casa rural, hostels and hotels.

We did work out that we would reach Santiago at a time when there were no vacancies at the Parador, and treated ourselves to a night in the Parador in Villafranca. It is a rather more modern building that those at SDC and Leon, but it was delightful nonetheless, and breakfast was to die for. I suppose it shouldn't really have been a surprize, but we were not the only pilgrims in residence.

My take on this is that one should have a strategy for getting a bed. Whether it is stopping early in the afternoon, booking ahead, using non-albergue accommodation including places a little further from the path or shuttling back and forth in a taxi isn't really important. You might never need to use the more expensive options, but if you have thought through how you will escalate your search, it won't be so distressing when you find the place you set your heart on using is already full when you arrive.

Pack Transport

I am neutral on this. On two occasions we met people who had been separated from their packs while using a taxi service. Both of them were handling the circumstances remarkably calmly. We carried our packs all the way, even when Elaine wasn't feeling well and we weren't making very long distances.

Medical
Elaine needed some medical care, and we ended up going to the emergency department at Burgos Hospital, were she got quick treatment by an English speaking doctor. When we insisted on paying the bill before we left, it resulted in us getting a grand tour of the hospital as we were taken to a couple of different offices to make these arrangements. There was also no facility to pay by credit card, and we were fortunate enough to have sufficient cash on us at the time. We are glad we insisted on doing this rather than waiting for the bill to arrive at home, and having to arrange overseas bank transfers or the like to make the payment.

When we left and wanted to take the bus back into Burgos, people were incredibly helpful in helping us find a bus going the right way, and then letting us know where to get off at the other end. This was just the tip of the iceberg of the sort of generosity we experienced, but coming as it did at an otherwise stressful time, it stood out for me.

... to be continued
 
Last edited:

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
True Pilgrims vs Traditional Pilgrimage

Many of you will know that I think that much of the hand-wringing over who might or might not be true pilgrims is based on personal prejudices rather than objective evidence. We quickly found that we needed a phrase that explained what we were doing that did not denigrate others who were taking different approaches. On the walk from SJPP to Valcarlos, we met four other walkers:
  • an English couple, two teachers, who were planning to walk to SDC in several stages during school holidays;
  • an older gentleman from the US who was walking to Pamplona, and then going to Sarria to walk the final leg from there; and
  • an Australian woman who was walking across the Pyrenees on the Camino Frances.
We were the only pilgrims carrying all our own gear and staying in the alburgue that night. All the others were using pack transport and staying in booked accommodation. This was so different to the first day I spend on the CF in 2010, where everyone carried their pack and stayed in the albergue in Roncesvalles that night.

Later, it was not uncommon for us to be asked why we were carrying our own packs, and not using pack transport. I don't think anyone asked that on my previous caminos. I began to wonder how unusual we were as an older couple to be carrying our own packs, and observed that we appeared to be in a minority, particularly among people who appeared to be around our age.

Members of my family back here in Australia were also under the impression that the Camino was a series of walks from one hotel to another with one's bags being brought forward each day. This appeared to be based on their discussions with members of their church or community who had walked.

All this led to us saying that we were undertaking our pilgrimage in a 'traditional style' when asked about these things. I now wonder whether that would be a more fruitful way to discuss some of the issues about the different approaches that are apparent amongst people walking the camino. I have even contemplated a 'Traditionality Index' that could be applied over factors like using pack transport, staying in private rooms, cooking one's own meals, etc. My only difficulty now is figuring out what is the model of a modern 'traditional' pilgrimage, and who amongst us would be the arbiter of what that means!

Walking with Poles

Both Elaine and I walked with poles. I have walked with two poles for many years on the basis that it takes pressure off my lower joints. I now know how much difference it has been making.

In the last couple of weeks, I was waking with some soreness and stiffness in my left hip. This had started before I left, but my physio had given my a couple of stretches that had been keeping it at bay, but even they weren't freeing up my hip as well as they had been. It generally resolved itself after an hour or so of walking, and I didn't pay too much attention to it at the time.

But back here in Australia in the cold of winter, it became very painful, and was not abating. Eventually I had to admit this was really something that wasn't going to resolve by itself, and have now seem my GP and a specialist to find that I have osteo-arthritis in both hips, much worse in my left hip. If I cannot successfully manage the pain and regain some greater mobility, the next step is a hip replacement, although I might be able to delay that for a few years with careful management.

While I cannot prove this, it appears that using poles has successfully extended my pain free walking for several years.

to be continued ...
 
Last edited:
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Mar 12, 2011
7,548
20,381
Time of past OR future Camino
Past: a few
Last: Sanabres
Next: St Olav's Way
Sarria to Santiago

We were determined to complete the leg from Sarria to Santiago on foot once it was clear that Elaine had recovered enough to walk a reasonable distance every day. We reduced our daily distances to make them more manageable, and knew that a consequence was that we would need to take the bus at some stage to get to Sarria if we wanted to have a couple of days in Santiago before leaving for London. We also knew that the bus to Sarria from O Cebriero did not run on a Sunday. We ended up walking to Fonfria on the Sunday, and having a wonderful communal meal there, catching the bus on the following morning.

We arrived at the Sarria bus station just before 8.00 am after one of those bus rides where one has to remind oneself that the driver values their own life even if their enthusiasm to get the trip over quickly seems to indicate otherwise. By the time that we had walked from the bus station to join the Camino, had a second breakfast and bought some fruit and bread for the day, it was about 9.00 am when we really got underway. Perhaps the numbers had thinned a little from when we had arrived, but there was still a steady stream of pilgrims leaving the town, most of them walking faster than us. We only ever passed those who had stopped to admire the view, or at a bar when they were having coffee.

We saw our first support bus as Barbadello, and we saw what we took to be support buses again at Portomarin and Melide. While people were using them to reduce their own load and to carry very little, or had a support crew by them with a refreshment stop, invariably the pilgrims we saw using them continued walking. Of course, we didn't see all the people these buses were supporting, and there might have been people who used the buses to skip a section, but we didn't see anyone do that.

By now, carrying her pack had almost become a badge of honour for Elaine. She was using an Aarn pack that we had found when visiting my relatives on the other side of the country. This was after she had been doing her research, and was determined to find one to try it out - it was just ironic that we had to cross the country to do that. Other than one minor repair I did early on when one of the buckles broke and was fixed with a cable tie, it had worked very well for her for the whole journey.

Other than a place to stay at Arzua, we had already found accommodation at Morgade, Portomarin, Airexe, San Xulian, Melide, Brea and Pedrouzo through booking.com. In the end, I chose to book into Arzua Apartments, the only option coming up on booking.com and rather expensive, although they did claim to be able to sleep eight. It was a wonderful place. While there had been places where we could have cooked for ourselves prior to that, most places we had stayed didn't really support that. But here we were with a relatively well equipped kitchen and enough time to prepare something we wanted to eat. Rather than go out we stayed in and I cooked the biggest steak, together with mashed potato and sauteed mushrooms. It was magnificent, and buoyed us up for the last few days of walking.

Elaine's Compostela

Elaine and I had discussed our motivations for completing the pilgrimage, and she was clear in her mind that she was walking for the physical challenge, and not for any other purpose. So as we completed the formalities at the Pilgrim Office, I watched as she marked the box to indicate that. It came as some surprise when we checked our certificates a couple of days later to find that both of us had been issued with the Compostela, and she did not have the tourist certificate. While we might have had just enough time to go back and correct this, neither of us felt so strongly about it, and decided to leave matters as they were.

It did make me wonder if someone knew something that I didn't know, but decided that it might just as easily be explained as a simple mistake. The staff in the Pilgrim Office were continually busy when we arrived, and perhaps are not expecting anyone to not want the Compostela. Who knows.

Some final thoughts

I served as the hospitalero at San Anton before meeting up with Elaine and walking from SJPP. I was glad that I did this first. While it might have been possible to contemplate doing it the other way around, I don't think I would have had the same levels of physical and emotional reserves, and certainly one needed those even for the short time that I did at San Anton.

I have a feeling that this is the last time that I will walk the Camino Frances. Elaine and I might walk a pilgrimage route together elsewhere, Italy perhaps, and I want to walk the northernmost St Olavs Way route before walking again in Spain. When I do, it is likely to be one of the other routes, and not the CF.

And a final thank you to the many people named and unnamed who supported both of us along the way. Some of you will know that my brother died while we were in Spain. We had expected this might happen, and I had managed to visit him before we left Australia. He knew that if he did die, I would more than likely not return for his funeral. So we had said our goodbyes.

But all these things got reconsidered when he did pass away, and it was a difficult thing for me to decide not to return. Elaine was a wonderful support, as were @Rebekah Scott, Mike and Sandy who kept us in their prayers, and many others. Thank you so very much for your company here on the forum or on the camino itself. It was great to meet such wonderful people.
 
Last edited:

Dave C.

Active Member
Sep 12, 2015
251
527
Virginia, USA
Time of past OR future Camino
Francis (2016)
SJ to Santo Domingo (2017)
Santo Domingo to Fromista (2018)
SJPdP to Burgos (2019)
We have been back in Australia for about a week now. Most of it has been rather mundane return to work issues, recovering from jet lag, sorting out photos and the GPS log and the like. However, here are a few observations about some of the more interesting discussions in recent weeks.

Real Pilgrims
This post appeared just a few days before we arrived in Sarria. We were walking at a pace where we were unlikely to be overtaking anyone, but were still concerned about the effect that the behaviour reported might have about our own morale as we got closer to Santiago. And there is no doubt that both the increased numbers of pilgrims and some of their behaviour was annoying.

But we saw no parade of taxis, it was impossible to actually identify anyone in the three that we did see and they could have been empty for all we were able to tell. One would have had to have been walking backwards to see if there was anyone in them! And the only pilgrim that we witnessed asking at an albergue for the hospitalero to call a taxi clearly needed assistance. She was also quite clear that she would be returning to the albergue the next day to continue from there.

Yes, there were people walking with the lightest of loads, and a few so morbidly obese that we would not have been surprised if they had taken a taxi, but we didn't witness that happening. We did see some people at a bus stop one morning, but that was about the extent of any use of vehicle transport that we witnessed personally. I formed the opinion that, for all the discussion that this post generated, there might have been more than a little hyperbole in its content.

Beds, booking and dormitories
We never went without a bed, even at the beginning of May when there was extensive discussion about bed shortages. There were eight days that I walked alone, and I was able to find an albergue bed without booking on six of these. On one day of the days that I didn't book, I had to walk on to the next town to find a bed.

Initially at least, we were walking too slowly together to arrive early enough in the afternoon for there to be a reasonable prospect of getting a bed. We tested this proposition in a couple of places, and albergues were already full in the early afternoon when we passed through. As a result, we would book somewhere for the following day when we knew how we were feeling after the current days walk. The exception was from Sarria, where most of the bookings were done a few days out, and we left only one booking to later.

I was happy to sleep in albergue dormitories, but when we were together, we always tried to get a private room. This didn't always work, so we ended up with a pretty full mix from dormitories, private rooms, casa rural, hostels and hotels.

We did work out that we would reach Santiago at a time when there were no vacancies at the Parador, and treated ourselves to a night in the Parador in Villafranca. It is a rather more modern building that those at SDC and Leon, but it was delightful nonetheless, and breakfast was to die for. I suppose it shouldn't really have been a surprize, but we were not the only pilgrims in residence.

My take on this is that one should have a strategy for getting a bed. Whether it is stopping early in the afternoon, booking ahead, using non-albergue accommodation including places a little further from the path or shuttling back and forth in a taxi isn't really important. You might never need to use the more expensive options, but if you have thought through how you will escalate your search, it won't be so distressing when you find the place you set your heart on using is already full when you arrive.

Pack Transport

I am neutral on this. On two occasions we met people who had been separated from their packs while using a taxi service. Both of them were handling the circumstances remarkably calmly. We carried our packs all the way, even when Elaine wasn't feeling well and we weren't making very long distances.

Medical
Elaine needed some medical care, and we ended up going to the emergency department at Burgos Hospital, were she got quick treatment by an English speaking doctor. When we insisted on paying the bill before we left, it resulted in us getting a grand tour of the hospital as we were taken to a couple of different offices to make these arrangements. There was also no facility to pay by credit card, and we were fortunate enough to have sufficient cash on us at the time. We are glad we insisted on doing this rather than waiting for the bill to arrive at home, and having to arrange overseas bank transfers or the like to make the payment.

When we left and wanted to take the bus back into Burgos, people were incredibly helpful in helping us find a bus going the right way, and then letting us know where to get off at the other end. This was just the tip of the iceberg of the sort of generosity we experienced, but coming as it did at an otherwise stressful time, it stood out for me.

... to be continued
We made an emergency room visits in Estella back in April. They would not take payment and insisted on billing us. We received the bill a month later. There was an option to pay online. No issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SYates
A guide to speaking Spanish on the Camino - enrich your pilgrim experience.

Most read last week in this forum

Hello everyone, I’m about to embark on my first Camino this month in a week or so. I had plans to go with a friend but it fell through so now I’m visiting a friend in France until I work up the...
Apologies if this topic has been covered before. I’m interested in the earliest/recommended date someone can reserve the following services: 1) flights 2) inter-city buses 3) train (e.g...
I have a bad knee and have to be very careful about walking both up and down hills, mostly down, would the Central route be much different than the Litoral route? Where is the last place to change...
Hello all fellow pilgrims! To celebrate my 70th birthday I'll be following the Frances path from St Jean Pied de Port to Santiago de Compostela. Really excited abut the journey for me starting...
Good evening all! We began our yearly route to Santiago, today! We 4 Peregrinos resumed our Camino at Rabanal del Camino and walked to Acebo. We encountered Snow, Hail Stones and rain. We loved...
Hi Camino Family, I am travelling from Australia to start the Le Puy Camino May 27th 2024. If there is anyone else planning on walking around this time, it would be great to connect. I speak...

âť“How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Updates on YouTube

Camino Conversations

Most downloaded Resources

This site is run by Ivar at

in Santiago de Compostela.
This site participates in the Amazon Affiliate program, designed to provide a means for Ivar to earn fees by linking to Amazon
Official Camino Passport (Credential) | 2024 Camino Guides