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A German that is married to a Brit and lives in the Czech Republic hereSY
I hope you were referring to option 2. @PANO.mmmh! "insular Europe"! Contentious? Are you trying to flame?
Met a young,so in love couple on my 2013 camino.3days,then never met again.He fromm Czeck Republic,her from Slovenia.They had met and later married on their "Home Camino". They recognised and collected all sorts of wild herbs etc as they walked,then made amazing herbal teas at end of each day,free to all.I was so sad when we missed each other on the Way.(They said my Irish accent made it easier for them to understand English)A German that is married to a Brit and lives in the Czech Republic hereSY
Many,like me,live elsewhere.What happened to all the Irish?
Sure everytime I am on the Camino, the place is covered in us
(which can be a good thing of course!)
Absolutely no flame intended, please help me to rephrase. I merely meant those chilly islands where they happen to speak native english (mostly), as opposed to (mainland) Europe, where they do notmmmh! "insular Europe"! Contentious? Are you trying to flame?
It would be interesting to know the percentages of the country-origins of the forum members/participants, by clicks (Google stats)
It occurs to me that certain recurring thread-subjects are heavily focused on a northern-Amercian and Australian audience.
Did you chose English as the Forum-language because it is the "lingua franca" on the camino or was your intent to address an anglo-saxon audience specifically?
Would you be able / willing to make the relevant percentage-stats available to us, Ivar?
Meanwhile, a little poll maybe sheds a light....?
Thanks Ivar. Whow, «the rest of us» is clearly a minority, clearly time to retire....unless of course, we are graciously tolerated.Looking at the stats from the last 30 days, the pilgrims visiting the forum come from:
- USA - 30%
- UK - 12%
- Canada - 9%
- Australia - 8%
- Ireland - 7%
- Spain - 4%
- ...
Absolutely no flame intended, please help me to rephrase. I merely mean those chilly islands where they happen to speak english (mostly), as opposed (mainland) Europe, where they do not
Absolutely Al, and given Ivar's very interesting stats, any contributions by non-native english speakers are at risk of being misunderstood or misinterpreted, and at that not always just accidentally.Pano, some attempts at humour can go awry. It is difficult at the best of times to get the right poll questions anyway. I'm quite sure that by isolating the islands from the rest of Europe in the poll you had good intentions. Mine you maybe the lumping of GB and Ireland together could in itself cause raised eyebrows by some? But maybe let's just stick with Ivar's statistics as they are comprehensive, accurate and informative?
I approve ! With us living in Central America, me Dutch, Annakappa British, our children Italian and our grandchildren Costaricans, (all speaking English and several other languages), we'd screw up any statistics.[...] maybe let's just stick with Ivar's statistics as they are comprehensive, accurate and informative?
LOL! True we wouldn't want statistics screwed up as well as ourselves now would we? PS where is the category for me (Black CountryI approve ! With us living in Central America, me Dutch, Annakappa British, our children Italian and our grandchildren Costaricans, (all speaking English and several other languages), we'd screw up any statistics.
Don't take this wrong, but...
Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
A. Trilingual.
Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A. Bilingual.
Q. What do you call someone who speaks one language?
A. American.
A German that is married to a Brit and lives in the Czech Republic hereSY
And here's me thinking it was only the new linga franca.IMHO, English is a universal language,
And here's me thinking it was only the new linga franca.
OOps! Just noticed my typo! Thanks bystander for reminding me!And here's me thinking it was only the new linga franca.
...Frankish tongue (i.e. French)...
I was chastised by the Customs and Immigration Officer the last time I returned to Florida, telling me I was a resident of France even though I carry a US Passport and pay my income taxes in the US.
But to get serious, we Americans are generally language-lazy; probably because English has become the most common second language for much of the non-anglophone world, at least for travel and business.
Hmph! This American speaks Spanish--not excellently, but it was my college language---and Khmer! My Khmer (lived in Cambodia for several years) is not great, but I can buy what I need at the market. I can count in Thai, great people in most languages.
I'm not sure that educated Americans are language-lazy.
The key word in my original comment was 'generally,' which does not imply that ALL Americans are language-lazy. Lacking statistics, I can only assume based on personal observation, that most of my fellow Americans, when traveling outside our borders, speak only the barest minimum of another language. Of course those living in a foreign country for any length of time, or doing regular overseas travel for business, develop at least some level of fluency in the language of the land where they do most of their travel. But because English has become somewhat of a universal second language, and perhaps because the requirement to learn a second language is becoming less common in the American K-12 educational system, most of casual American tourists simply assume they'll always find someone who speaks English, and therefore don't bother to even learn to say 'please' or 'thank you' in the local language. You are clearly the exception, and my hat's off to you, as it was to the young man from Chicago who was carrying on a simultaneous trilingual conversation (French, Spanish, and Italian) around the dinner table at one of the albergues where we stayed.
The key word in my original comment was 'generally,' which does not imply that ALL Americans are language-lazy. Lacking statistics, I can only assume based on personal observation, that most of my fellow Americans, when traveling outside our borders, speak only the barest minimum of another language. Of course those living in a foreign country for any length of time, or doing regular overseas travel for business, develop at least some level of fluency in the language of the land where they do most of their travel. But because English has become somewhat of a universal second language, and perhaps because the requirement to learn a second language is becoming less common in the American K-12 educational system, most of casual American tourists simply assume they'll always find someone who speaks English, and therefore don't bother to even learn to say 'please' or 'thank you' in the local language. You are clearly the exception, and my hat's off to you, as it was to the young man from Chicago who was carrying on a simultaneous trilingual conversation (French, Spanish, and Italian) around the dinner table at one of the albergues where we stayed.
I concur. I fear we're getting a bit off-topic, so I'll just make one last comment...And also, the key word in my original response was EDUCATED, as in "educated Americans." I mean those with at least an undergraduate degree, to be honest, not those who have gotten through the K-12 system (in which I teach).
..........I just think that the majority of educated Americans do have some second language knowledge.
Although it is not clear to me why the ability to speak what has become a minor dialect should be noteworthy. With estimates that only about 3% of people in Britain are RP speakers, its not even holding ground in its mother country.True, some even speak and understand the Queen's English!
Swiss (german/italian speaking) living in US ...but voted as 'Europe' for residence simply because it seems i am still a bit more euro cultural 'conditioned' in lifestyle and values than US. Might seem strange, but there you have it.It would be interesting to know the percentages of the country-origins of the forum members/participants, by clicks (Google stats)
It occurs to me that certain recurring thread-subjects are heavily focused on a northern-Amercian and Australian audience.
Did you chose English as the Forum-language because it is the "lingua franca" on the camino or was your intent to address an anglo-saxon audience specifically?
Would you be able / willing to make the relevant percentage-stats available to us, Ivar?
Meanwhile, a little poll maybe sheds a light....?
@hunsta, not sure about this. I thought you might have misspelled sycophantic, but the Urban Dictionary has a great meaning for sickofantic as well. Which is it to be?Id love to say "arent we all just residents of the world. And borders are the cause of all the worlds ills" But that would be too wishy washy and sickofantic at best.
You are an optimist expecting it to stay on topic for too long!Now, I am somewhat confused. Is this poll about country of residence or about languages spoken? Not the same thing....
With tongue firmly protruding into cheek, I say the latter sir. Of course.LMAO.@hunsta, not sure about this. I thought you might have misspelled sycophantic, but the Urban Dictionary has a great meaning for sickofantic as well. Which is it to be?
No doubt she was thinking " La mujer es muy loco", ever since I tried to book train tickets in Barcelona with the ticket counter lady looking at me like a crazy person... only to realize I'd been asking her in Japanese (my second language) NOT Spanish! very embarrassing.
I too have been working on my Spanish for my upcoming visit in May. I can write some and speak some with confidence. But when I watch spanish speaking movies to listen, Im flat out understanding more than a couple of words. I am confidant that what Spanish I now know and what I study up on in the coming months , Ill get by nicely. I mean how much more than " Una cerveza por favor" does one need?lol, I have been working on my Spanish skills today, and I've decided that I definitely need to do more listening and speaking before I arrive in Spain!
Although it is not clear to me why the ability to speak what has become a minor dialect should be noteworthy. With estimates that only about 3% of people in Britain are RP speakers, its not even holding ground in its mother country.
Don't worry, I'm sure Australian English and its sub-dialects are not at risk of dominating the English speaking world, although we try from time to time to add some colourful and useful additions.As part of the "3%", I'm glad you rose to the bait!!
(as an aside: then you are probably/perhaps looking forward to visiting Azinhaga on your Caminho Portuguese ...the place where he was born. See two attached pics below)I am Celtic-American born in New England, USA. My forum name is an homage to Jose Saramago, the Portuguese writer who only had a grammar school education and spoke one language. He is a Nobel prize winning author, now deceased. His trade was a mechanic until later in life. Just call me Pat.
The problem with stats is that can be used to justify any position. What the old expression - lies, lies and statisticsLooking at the stats from the last 30 days, the pilgrims visiting the forum come from:
- USA - 30%
- UK - 12%
- Canada - 9%
- Australia - 8%
- Ireland - 7%
- Spain - 4%
- ...
The problem with stats is that can be used to justify any position. What the old expression - lies, lies and statistics
Ideally these statistics should be normalized.
you are very welcome!How wonderful! Gives me the chills. Thank you for sharing. I was in Lisbon and the south beaches over a decade ago (when it was raining in Switzerland - kids at The American School, Lysin) and hopped over from there but that was before my love affair with Jose Saramago.;-) yes, yes and yes. Thank you! I did also go up to Fatima and can't wait for this route. Thank you so much for sharing!
Leysin - south of Gstaad.
They are normalised. They are relative frequencies, ie expressed as percentages of the total. How else would you expect them to be normalised?The problem with stats is that can be used to justify any position. What the old expression - lies, lies and statistics
Ideally these statistics should be normalized.
I did say I was still learning. My deepest appologise to all crazy "travestites" Whatever part of the gender equation they are.LOLunless the mujer is a travestite but correct is " la mujer es muy loca ! "
I did say I was still learning. My deepest appologise to all crazy "travestites" Whatever part of the gender equation they are.LOL
Oh, come on Al.mmmh! "insular Europe"! Contentious? Are you trying to flame?
unless the mujer is a travestite but correct is " la mujer es muy loca ! "
They are normalised. They are relative frequencies, ie expressed as percentages of the total. How else would you expect them to be normalised?
Usted tiene razón. Está loca. Trabajaba en Catalunya antes y porque mezclé todo.As a native (Castilian) Spanish speaker, in my humble opinion, the most correct would be: esta mujer está muy loca. But maybe the person at the ticket desk didn't think in Spanish but in Catalan...
They are already normalised now - should you wish they can be compared to the general internet population. Given there doesn't appear to be any significant level of participation from China, it's likely to demonstrate that the forum population is skewed. But so what? None of what might be the key characteristics of forum members are going to make us a representative population!Normalized in terms of the general internet population.
Well, if one wants a large beer, as often happens after a hot days hiking, you might throw in "grande" along with the "cerveza". And if you are looking for a draught beer in Compostela, you might ask for a "cana" pronounced "carn-ya" - by asking for a cerveza you will normally get a stubbie.I too have been working on my Spanish for my upcoming visit in May. I can write some and speak some with confidence. But when I watch spanish speaking movies to listen, Im flat out understanding more than a couple of words. I am confidant that what Spanish I now know and what I study up on in the coming months , Ill get by nicely. I mean how much more than " Una cerveza por favor" does one need?
Well, if one wants a large beer, as often happens after a hot days hiking, you might throw in "grande" along with the "cerveza". And if you are looking for a draught beer in Compostela, you might ask for a "cana" pronounced "carn-ya" - by asking for a cerveza you will normally get a stubbie. ...
Well, that got the bloke with you a beer. What about you?I always ask for "una cerveza tamaño peregrino, por favor" which gets me the desired amountBuen Camino! SY
Tia honto ke la universala lingvo "Esperanto" estis ne plu disvolvis.Such a shame that the universal language of "Esperanto " was not further developed .
Thanks to Google Translate, I concur. It might take a generation or two to implement as a universal language, and would probably require mandatory studies at the primary and/or secondary level. It would also require some universal authority to keep the language current since there is no 'native' Esperanto speakers or homeland, and that probably represents the biggest impediment to its becoming a reality. In the meantime, English, by default, remains the most common 'universal' second language.Tia honto ke la universala lingvo "Esperanto" estis ne plu disvolvis.
Kiel angla estante mia unua lingvo 1 provis lerni iom de la lingvo de ĉiu lando vojaĝis - tre fortimiga kelkfoje.
Bi-linguistically leaning Texans are more the norm here.although,a smattering of cajun,with some hillbilly thrown in will confuse the best of them when i "twang"my accent.bom gia,dobra utra,buenos dias,...mornin yallDon't take this wrong, but...
Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
A. Trilingual.
Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A. Bilingual.
Q. What do you call someone who speaks one language?
A. American.
I'm ahead of the general curve for Americans since I speak 1.2 languages (including a bit of Spanish and a tinier bit of Italian). Or maybe I should make that 1.3 languages, since I grew up in Texas and still speak Texan fluently, y'all.
(A side note, we met so many Irishmen -- and women -- on the Camino that my wife said she was dreaming with an Irish lilt.)
But to get serious, we Americans are generally language-lazy; probably because English has become the most common second language for much of the non-anglophone world, at least for travel and business. You'd think that as an immigrant nation, we'd all still be speaking at least a little of our grandparents' tongue, but I guess the first-generation immigrants felt it important for their children to speak the common language of the land. It's been my observation that the second generation generally spoke the language of the old country plus fluent English, still maintained many (if not most) of the customs of their parents' nation of origin, and even tended to marry within their own national or ethnic groups. But by the third generation, they were fully Americanized and integrated within the great melting pot -- clinging to a few old customs, but otherwise intermarrying at will and generally becoming mono-lingual. For example, both sets of my wife's grandparents came from Italy in the 1880's; her parents and their generation spoke English very fluently and still spoke Italian among themselves. But they did not teach my wife's generation Italian at all.
My own ancestors came primarily from England (mid-1700's), Ireland (1840's), and Germany (1850's). I can still remember going to family reunions as a small child where some of the older folks spoke German, but my own experience was that I only heard English spoken otherwise. Taking a second language was still a requirement in our public schools when I grew up in the 1950's, and was an entry requirement for many colleges and universities. Because I was in Texas, which bordered Mexico and had a large Latin-American population, I chose Spanish as my second language course. But I never really learned to speak Spanish fluently, just enough to get by when traveling in Mexico on vacations, and of course more recently on the Camino. When I travel abroad, I try to learn a few basic words and phases in the local language, which I promptly forget when I get back home. I only learned a bit more Italian because of my wife's family connection when we visited her relatives in Italy a few years ago.
I too have been working on my Spanish for my upcoming visit in May. I can write some and speak some with confidence. But when I watch spanish speaking movies to listen, Im flat out understanding more than a couple of words. I am confidant that what Spanish I now know and what I study up on in the coming months , Ill get by nicely. I mean how much more than " Una cerveza por favor" does one need?
Dito here, my friendTo avoid this thread degenerating into an argument among friends, I deleted the original post I wrote. It is simply not worth the angst, especially among people I respect.
That was not my intention. I understand some folks feel more strongly about this subject than I do. So, in this case, it was better to retreat...To each his or her own. Vive la difference!
I regret any inconvenience or misconstruction.
I regret any inconvenience or misconstruction.
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