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In Finisterre I met a young Malaysian pilgrim-to-be, who hadn't begun yet. She only had about ten days and was going to walk the last nine stages of the Camino, bussing it to her start point. I advised her to avoid Sarria to Santiago and instead do Astorga to Sarria.
For me walking those last 110km was a rude awakening to school party and tour group hell, and was really jarring after such a beautiful previous four weeks. Much of the community spirit seemed to evaporate overnight on leaving Sarria. No-one greeted each other with "Bon Camino" any more, cause there's so many people you'd never stop saying it. We arrived in a Portomarin that had been booked out by school groups who weren't even doing the full Camino, just a two-day hike, but still causing the city to have to open overflow shelters for everyone else.
My point is, when you can experience this sort of crowded touristic hiking anywhere else in the world, why choose to spend half or a third or your limited Camino time doing this bit, just so you can get a certificate? Forgo the compostela and get stuck into the earlier stages, I say, where you're far more likely to have profound personal and spiritual experiences. If you're not doing it for Catholic reasons, I see no reason to see the last 100km as obligatory.
I'm pleased to say she took the advice and had a great time, reporting back that she definitely made the right choice, so I'd like to offer up the idea here to any other future pilgrims who are on a tight time budget
What does winter have to do with this?The post was aimed at first-timers really, so most of those are probably going to be looking at doing it in any season other than winter
Peter suggested doing it during winter if I didn't like the crowds.What does winter have to do with this?
No he didn't. He suggested he was the Camino de Invierno.Peter suggested doing it during winter if I didn't like the crowds.
Absolutely. Why not? Many are walking VDLP, the Norte, English, Sanabre or Primitivo as their first Camino. Perhaps not the Olvidado, Lebaniego, those with very little information about them and greater distances to walk feom bed to bed.But would you really advise someone who's never done a camino before to start on one of the lesser known routes to avoid the crowds?
But would you really advise someone who's never done a camino before to start on one of the lesser known routes to avoid the crowds?
Not strange in any way. The Camino de Santiago has a single, quite clear, destination - the tomb of St James in the cathedral at Santiago. Whether it is done for religious or any other reason, done in one journey or many, and whether you walk afterwards to Finisterre or Muxia to acknowledge the existence of earlier spiritual traditions is unimportant. If you are not going to Santiago, you are not a pilgrim on the Camino de Santiago.Doug, strange to think that you think that just shifting the destination from Santiago to Sarria suddenly makes it into a "tourist walk". Again, I'll say, if the symbolism of the destination is important to you for religious reasons then you'll want to do those last stages for sure. But if not, why follow those paths in the high season when earlier down the road would be more rewarding (which I understand you dispute, but is still my firm opinion!)
Absolutely, and it is done regularly and frequently by those who understand that this is a far better option for most people than what you have been suggesting.But would you really advise someone who's never done a camino before to start on one of the lesser known routes to avoid the crowds?
Now you are being really silly.Obviously for Doug its sacrilege to consider leaving out the last 100km under time pressure
I glad you admit that your remark wasn't meant to be taken seriously.Just a little hyperbole, Doug
Well as with everything in life luckily it is not so black and white.
1. Why wouldn't Spanish schoolgroups not walk a couple of days on the Camino ? It is in their backgarden after all.
Yes, it makes sense. But one shouldn't jump uninformed on an over-popular journey at certain times and on certain routes. Like the wrong spot at the wrong time, etc.[...]Someone coming from a hectic job directly to a hectic Sarria with a hectic five-day or bust schedule might just never get over that starting hump of finding a peaceful place within. That's the reasoning behind what I'm saying here, if that makes any sense..?
Fraluchi, they really weren't so negative. They were fine. I had plenty of time and could do it at my own pace and out of phase with the groups. It was only a small fraction of my Camino, and still also valuable as contrast to the earlier, quieter stages.Yes, it makes sense. But one shouldn't jump uninformed on an over-popular journey at certain times and on certain routes. Like the wrong spot at the wrong time, etc.Be it a lesson to others who become fascinated by "the media" to avoid the road to hell which is paved on good intentions. I feel sorry for you that your journey's last days' experience were so negative. As others mentioned above, with a bit of research there could have been alternatives at the time of your Camino, which now is like crying over spilled milk I suppose.
@Theatregal It wasn't too hard in the end, just a big jolt. The jolt awakens you and at some point you have to choose whether you want to let the different circumstances keep bothering you or just accept it. After Portomarin I did a half day, just to put myself out of phase with the masses. Perhaps that's "cheating" but it made all the difference for me.
In Finisterre I met a young Malaysian pilgrim-to-be, who hadn't begun yet. She only had about ten days and was going to walk the last nine stages of the Camino, bussing it to her start point. I advised her to avoid Sarria to Santiago and instead do Astorga to Sarria.
For me walking those last 110km was a rude awakening to school party and tour group hell, and was really jarring after such a beautiful previous four weeks. Much of the community spirit seemed to evaporate overnight on leaving Sarria. No-one greeted each other with "Bon Camino" any more, cause there's so many people you'd never stop saying it. We arrived in a Portomarin that had been booked out by school groups who weren't even doing the full Camino, just a two-day hike, but still causing the city to have to open overflow shelters for everyone else.
My point is, when you can experience this sort of crowded touristic hiking anywhere else in the world, why choose to spend half or a third or your limited Camino time doing this bit, just so you can get a certificate? Forgo the compostela and get stuck into the earlier stages, I say, where you're far more likely to have profound personal and spiritual experiences. If you're not doing it for Catholic reasons, I see no reason to see the last 100km as obligatory.
I'm pleased to say she took the advice and had a great time, reporting back that she definitely made the right choice, so I'd like to offer up the idea here to any other future pilgrims who are on a tight time budget
For some of us, me included, it is actually important to arrive in Santiago, at the cathedral and yes, pray at the tomb. And yes, that includes, at least for me, walking the last 100km to Santiago. And no, the Compostela is not important to me. Buen Camino, SY
Answer to your question about why: "The appearance of motor vehicles and, in this century, the popularisation of tourism, represented somewhat of a crisis for pilgrimage: it was feared that the effort and sacrifice in the expiation of sins embraced in the pilgrimage on foot would be exchanged by a pleasant and enjoyable activity for the holidays".As an aside, when and more specifically WHY was this 100km requirement introduced?? Surely someone who walks from Burgos to Leon (more than twice the minimum) is no lesser a pilgrim than ...
As an aside, when and more specifically WHY was this 100km requirement introduced?? Surely someone who walks from Burgos to Leon (more than twice the minimum) is no lesser a pilgrim than some "touristi-pilgrim" who arrives in Sarria (by whatever means) and then walks the 100 km carrying nothing but a water bottle (backpack transported) qualifies for their compostela! (Yes I know this will attract adverse comments - sorry not interested!)
Surely someone who walks from Burgos to Leon (more than twice the minimum) is no lesser a pilgrim than some "touristi-pilgrim" who arrives in Sarria (by whatever means) ...
In my eyes, agreed, but not in the eyes of the Church
Whatever distance they set is always going to be rather arbitrary and upset some people. If there has to be a qualifier at all, why not make it the number of days walked instead of the distance?
You are confusing being a pilgrim and qualifying for a compostela, and the Catholic church with the Pilgrim Office.
You are a pilgrim if you walk to Mecca (and a lot of other places).
You qualify for a compostela if you walk the last 100km to the tomb of St. James on any route, primarily the five routes into Santiago.
The Pilgrim Office set the standard for the compostela, not the Catholic church (but with a lot of church input). The Catholic church welcomes all pilgrims to the tomb, including the ones who arrive on a bus. The Office came up with the Certificate of Distance for some fairly vague reasons. It is unrelated to the Tomb, but vaguely related to Santiago. You can get one even if you skip stages including in the last 100km.
I have met dozens of youth groups, all walking the last 100km, and all Spanish. A shorter section would be an American invention for the social media sub-group that prefers the easy and convenient. A lot of the Spanish students struggle, but they don't give up or ask for a two-day pilgrimage.
From Roncesvalles to Santiago @ leasure, with the pinches, Rioja and other culinary attractions (Astorga amongst other places comes to mind) it'll take me months to "do" the Frances.[...] why not make it the number of days walked instead of the distance?
When I posted about thos I was corrected and told that the distancecertificate is only an ade on to the Compostela. And the PO's website is not clear on the matter.The Office came up with the Certificate of Distance for some fairly vague reasons. It is unrelated to the Tomb, but vaguely related to Santiago. You can get one even if you skip stages including in the last 100km.
The Pilgrim Office set the standard for the compostela, not the Catholic church (but with a lot of church input).
...
The Office came up with the Certificate of Distance for some fairly vague reasons. It is unrelated to the Tomb, but vaguely related to Santiago. You can get one even if you skip stages including in the last 100km.
...
I have never asked for one, so my information is anecdotal from other pilgrims who have. Several did not qualify for a compostela. The Pilgrim Office says:So, you can't get the distance certificate if you have skipped a stage during your last 100km on foot.
But would you really advise someone who's never done a camino before to start on one of the lesser known routes to avoid the crowds?
I didn't .Peter suggested doing it during winter if I didn't like the crowds.
I could not agree with you more and I've just come to that realization the past few days. I'm leaving next Friday for Madrid. The plan is to walk Leon to Santiago. I'll have 20 days to walk before my wife meets me for a months vacation in Spain. I'm in good shape but fighting a hip impingement. I finally decided if I'm having trouble I'll just take my time and enjoy the country. If I don't finish so be it. I will be in Spain next year for 3 months. I'll find the time to walk the Ingles way.In Finisterre I met a young Malaysian pilgrim-to-be, who hadn't begun yet. She only had about ten days and was going to walk the last nine stages of the Camino, bussing it to her start point. I advised her to avoid Sarria to Santiago and instead do Astorga to Sarria.
For me walking those last 110km was a rude awakening to school party and tour group hell, and was really jarring after such a beautiful previous four weeks. Much of the community spirit seemed to evaporate overnight on leaving Sarria. No-one greeted each other with "Bon Camino" any more, cause there's so many people you'd never stop saying it. We arrived in a Portomarin that had been booked out by school groups who weren't even doing the full Camino, just a two-day hike, but still causing the city to have to open overflow shelters for everyone else.
My point is, when you can experience this sort of crowded touristic hiking anywhere else in the world, why choose to spend half or a third or your limited Camino time doing this bit, just so you can get a certificate? Forgo the compostela and get stuck into the earlier stages, I say, where you're far more likely to have profound personal and spiritual experiences. If you're not doing it for Catholic reasons, I see no reason to see the last 100km as obligatory.
I'm pleased to say she took the advice and had a great time, reporting back that she definitely made the right choice, so I'd like to offer up the idea here to any other future pilgrims who are on a tight time budget
Actually we do work out the kms if you have skipped some stage. ..not of course if you haven't walked the last 100.Yes, I had been on the website, which is why I said it was not very clear. For instance, it says "in addition to the compostela" - is that in addition to those who have earned a compostela, or in addition in terms of products/serviced offered. It also says it gives the number of km walked, but if it is given to those who have skipped stages, I doubt the volunteers sit there counting km walked based on the stamps in the credencial. They just ask you where you started and write the pre-established distance.
I agree, Anemone. This past Spring I walked each and every step of the Camino Frances, from SJPdP to Santiago and decided to get the Certificate of Distance. Two years ago I wasn't aware it was offered when I walked the same route. I'd skipped the meseta due to time constraints as I walked a little slower than I'd anticipated. Had I been aware at that time that there was a certificate of distance from starting point to ending point, I NEVER would have purchased one, knowing I hadn't walked the full 800 kilometers...actually 799 as that what was written on my certificate. So, for anyone skipping sections for whatever reason, it doesn't seem appropriate to be issued the certificate, and as you say, the PO is not going to spend the time to figure out your own personal kilometers walked. Maybe all pilgrims/walkers should be required to wear a fitbit and display their "steps" to the Pilgrim Office. Then they could issue "Certificates of Steps" instead of distance. Lol.Yes, I had been on the website, which is why I said it was not very clear. For instance, it says "in addition to the compostela" - is that in addition to those who have earned a compostela, or in addition in terms of products/serviced offered. It also says it gives the number of km walked, but if it is given to those who have skipped stages, I doubt the volunteers sit there counting km walked based on the stamps in the credencial. They just ask you where you started and write the pre-established distance.
Actually we do work out the kms if you have skipped some stage. ..not of course if you haven't walked the last 100....
Walking from Astorga to Sarria and then taking the bus to Santiago sounds as much pilgrimage to me as walking the last stretch to Santiago - it's not a pilgrimage on foot "every step of the way" but a pilgrimage none the less.
?
First Camino - The Ingles (2011), next the Primitivo (2012) - so on the Frances from Palas de Rei that year. Why walk the Frances when there are so many other beautiful choices of Camino to walk into Santiago?But would you really advise someone who's never done a camino before to start on one of the lesser known routes to avoid the crowds?
For first-time pilgrims who want the assurance of enough other pilgrims around them and albergues and tiendas every 3km, the Frances seems to be pretty much the default choice. Not saying that's best but it seems to be a common attitude, especially among those who came to find out about the camino via a certain American film.Why walk the Frances when there are so many other beautiful choices of Camino to walk into Santiago?
True. But as your original post was about the crowds etc then the quieter routes would seem to be an obvious alternative, even for first-timers.For first-time pilgrims who want the assurance of enough other pilgrims around them and albergues and tiendas every 3km, the Frances seems to be pretty much the default choice. Not saying that's best but it seems to be a common attitude, especially among those who came to find out about the camino via a certain American film.
I say put everyone on a GPS type of device that shows distance travelled in the amount of time and speed: bus, taxi in the last 100km : busted!,Maybe all pilgrims/walkers should be required to wear a fitbit and display their "steps" to the Pilgrim Office. Then they could issue "Certificates of Steps" instead of distance. Lol.
You are telling me that you sit there at the desk looking at the stamps over 800km figuring out where someone may have skipped half "an etapa", or a full etapa?Actually we do work out the kms if you have skipped some stage. ..
.
Many today embrace the idea that their (or other's) foot pilgrimage has to include an element of suffering but from what I read and hear the majority of them interprets this as a means to some kind of secular-spiritual transformational experience to be a better and stronger person, independent of religious doctrine. Come to think of it, walking 100 km from Astorga should be as valuable as walking 100 km from Sarria in terms of effort and sacrifice in the expiation of sins, no?
So... because they believe a peice of fiction is real they should cheat themselves from a different, perhaps more authentic, traditional, "what is was like before the movie", call ot what you want, experience?For first-time pilgrims who want the assurance of enough other pilgrims around them and albergues and tiendas every 3km, the Frances seems to be pretty much the default choice. Not saying that's best but it seems to be a common attitude, especially among those who came to find out about the camino via a certain American film.
I have done the Camino from Leon to Santiago, and became totally devoted to it, looking forward to the day we come back and walk from SJPP to SANTIAGO. Can't imagine doing it and closing at Sarria. We walked in September, so our walk wasn't as busy as it is durinf the summer time. From Sarria on, yes it was a different "air" because the last 100 km are more crouded and you find lots of turists, but you are in your meditative mood and that is part of rhe Camino, dealing with different atmospheres, and enjoying every part of it, at least it was for me. The Camino de Santiago has the most amazing closure when entering Santiago, the emotion that you feel of getting closer and closer to the Obradorio, has been ONE OF THE GREATEST FEELINGS of my entire LIFE.Not strange in any way. The Camino de Santiago has a single, quite clear, destination - the tomb of St James in the cathedral at Santiago. Whether it is done for religious or any other reason, done in one journey or many, and whether you walk afterwards to Finisterre or Muxia to acknowledge the existence of earlier spiritual traditions is unimportant. If you are not going to Santiago, you are not a pilgrim on the Camino de Santiago.
Absolutely, and it is done regularly and frequently by those who understand that this is a far better option for most people than what you have been suggesting.
@Camino Chris, see @IngridF post above, quote:
Thank you, SY. Good to know and I'm sure your info is correct. However, it sure would hold up the lines of pilgrims waiting for their compostelas if individuals had bussed or taxied many little sections along the way and then it all had to be calculated by the volunteer issuing the certificate of distance.
Ingrid has just finished her stint as a volunteer in the pilgrims office, so that is first hand information ;-)
Buen Camino, SY
... My only disappointment was the "tourist" hugging the Saint while Mass was going on.
In Finisterre I met a young Malaysian pilgrim-to-be, who hadn't begun yet. She only had about ten days and was going to walk the last nine stages of the Camino, bussing it to her start point. I advised her to avoid Sarria to Santiago and instead do Astorga to Sarria.
For me walking those last 110km was a rude awakening to school party and tour group hell, and was really jarring after such a beautiful previous four weeks. Much of the community spirit seemed to evaporate overnight on leaving Sarria. No-one greeted each other with "Bon Camino" any more, cause there's so many people you'd never stop saying it. We arrived in a Portomarin that had been booked out by school groups who weren't even doing the full Camino, just a two-day hike, but still causing the city to have to open overflow shelters for everyone else.
My point is, when you can experience this sort of crowded touristic hiking anywhere else in the world, why choose to spend half or a third or your limited Camino time doing this bit, just so you can get a certificate? Forgo the compostela and get stuck into the earlier stages, I say, where you're far more likely to have profound personal and spiritual experiences. If you're not doing it for Catholic reasons, I see no reason to see the last 100km as obligatory.
I'm pleased to say she took the advice and had a great time, reporting back that she definitely made the right choice, so I'd like to offer up the idea here to any other future pilgrims who are on a tight time budget
We have had many threads about the pros and cons of the Sarria-Santiago portion, so there's nothing new here in that regard.I advised her to avoid Sarria to Santiago and instead do Astorga to Sarria.
Yes we take the time... every pilgrim deserveso that.You are telling me that you sit there at the desk looking at the stamps over 800km figuring out where someone may have skipped half "an etapa", or a full etapa?
With all the stamps out there, from every random bar and kiosk along there is no way you can figure this out. And how can you tell if I took a taxi for 10-15 km from the place I got a stamp to the next?
And even if you could, it would take a very long time to analyse these and come up with a number. Mind you, that would explain the time queuing. Perhaps there should be a queue for Compostelas, one for certificates of distance.
But tell me, do you have to have earned the Compostela to buy a certificate of distance, or not?
Yes we take the time... every pilgrim deserves that.
Didn't happen when I got one post Primitivo. I was quickly out of there and noone calculated where I had been or not. And I still don't understand how you can tell whar was walked, and what was not. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of people have the standard distance based kn starting point, that's it, that's all.Yes we take the time... every pilgrim deserveso that.
When my wife and I arrived in 2016 and asked for the certificate of distance, we told the woman attending to us that we had broken our walk. Our individual distances were then calculated for our certificates based on where we had each started and stopped. The same thing happened in 2014 when I walked from Covas rather than starting the CI in Ferrol.Didn't happen when I got one post Primitivo. I was quickly out of there and noone calculated where I had been or not. And I still don't understand how you can tell whar was walked, and what was not. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of people have the standard distance based kn starting point, that's it, that's all.
Only pilgrims withe a composteLA or certificate of completion (non religious etc).Didn't happen when I got one post Primitivo. I was quickly out of there and noone calculated where I had been or not. And I still don't understand how you can tell whar was walked, and what was not. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of people have the standard distance based kn starting point, that's it, that's all.
Finally, is the distance certificate granted to anyone, or only to those who have qualified for a compostela?
Thank you for the info regarding needing the Compostela or Certificate of completion to purchase a Distance certificate.Only pilgrims withe a composteLA or certificate of completion (non religious etc).
BTW the distance calcuLatin is via a computer app. It also helps if you have walked multiple caminos and recognize the varies sellos.
Good reminder!We can't always chew back our thoughts when asked and think first ' now how would mr or mrs x respond to this?' YOUR thoughts were asked - Thanks for sharing.
I think the best way to find out is to volunteer at the office. I think you would do a great job since you know the Caminos so well. Buen Camino!Thank you for the info regarding needing the Compostela or Certificate of completion to purchase a Distance certificate.
Ok, now I'm intrigued. How does that app work?
Every time I walk into Santiago de Compostela I am moved. Even today, after many visits, I am usually in tears somewhere along the pavement of the old town, as the cathedral comes into sight. Is my experience not just as valid as that of the person who is unmoved and finds it "just another day"?
I love the Sarria to SDC section; I love the party atmosphere, I love the soft Galician paths, I love the joy of those who are newly arrived on the path. After a solitary camino I welcome the change in atmosphere - to me it signifies getting close to the beloved destination.
I do not expect everyone to feel the way I do. But some will.
AMEN! Kanga!
While I too experienced significant crowds from Sarría, my reaction was to NOT be put out by it. It gave me a chance to reconnect with the beginner's mind that I had in my first few days and, the enthusiasm, energy, and talkativeness of my new pilgrim friends chiseled off my old timer veneer. All in all, new friends met in St Jean or Sarría are still new friends.
I live right next to NYC. I can't imagine the crowds being that bad lol
JG
Potential pilgrims learn of the camaraderie found by many while walking the Camino Frances. They watch "The Way" and see the bonding between divergent personalities and nationalities. Then they read about snoring and crowds, and choose a less traveled camino. They don't meet people, walk longer stages, and feel isolated. It really is not that surprising, when you think about it.Although it was a lovely experience, it was NOT the life-changing, friend-bonding thing that so many people on the Frances seem to find.
Hey H Richards. I am sure you didn't expect such responses to your well meaning advice (which as "free" human beings we can give).
People have the choice to take advice. or not.
Seems the angle of your post was for first time pilgrims to consider other options with their limited timeframe.
You said this Malaysian Pilgrim intended to return...so perhaps (like many) she will walk the Way to Santiago de Compostela in stages.. So all good as far as I can see. There is no "one" formula. This is the magic for our unique Way.
You also met her in Finesterre, correct?
Seems she most likely had already visited the (very beautiful) town of Santiago de Compostela.
So....
each to their own
This was certainly my experience too. Seeing how many people come on the camino exactly to find those kind of communal experiences, it seemed sensible to me to suggest sticking to the bits where they were more common. Cue everyone else's personal stories about how this absolutely isn't the case... ;-)For me, the most valuable part of the camino is connection: with other pilgrims and local Spaniards. Those 'friendly experiences' seem to diminish the closer you get to Santiago. I chock it up to the Malthusian Effect (on the camino): specifically as more and more people enter a given space, people become less and less friendly to each other. This generalizations most obvious example is the experience of big cities vs. smaller towns.
This was certainly my experience too. Seeing how many people come on the camino exactly to find those kind of communal experiences, it seemed sensible to me to suggest sticking to the bits where they were more common. Cue everyone else's personal stories about how this absolutely isn't the case... ;-)
Yes, I get that, and it's fine of course. Wouldn't be much of a forum if everyone just agreed with each other. I still stand by my advice for the non-religiously motivated with little time.I am guessing you got the response you did because you "advised" someone on something which is generally considered a pretty personal experience, different for everyone. Folks can get a little defensive around that.
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