For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Hummmm........... I don't know if that is generally so, but I can tell for myself that it generally is not (if I may call myself "young"Faith and the need for contemplative prayer is not commonly found among the youngest among us. Appreciation for fine, ancient architecture and religious art is similarly not common among the young, in general. Also, in my experience, there appears to be an inverse relationship between age and religious conviction and the need to associate with organized religion.
Well, this may then lead to a new attraction on the Camino: open street fight between priests and bar-tenders.you would likely get resistance from the nearby cafes who are using the same gambit to attract pilgrims to their businesses.
Nice idea, Sy! A little poll then: do you think the churches feel they have lost the battle for the souls - resulting in despondency?
Good idea about the notice...when i stayed in San Miguel in Estella, they had posted times for the churches and also the monastery at Irache ...after a day of me lurking at several of the churches and walking down and back to Irache, I came back with a note-page of time corrections, that the hospitaleras were kind enough to transcribe onto their posted list immediately. In fact, when I'd studied the list before heading out, they'd come over to make sure I knew where each church was, and really worried over the fact that the church I most wanted to see would not open again until after I left. heh heh, they underestimated my ability to waylay the keeper of the keys.Last night I stayed in Monreal, where both the bar/restaurant and the Albergue are out reaches of the local church. But when the church bell rang at 8:30 pm and my dinner companions recognized it as a call to mass, we couldn't find the service at first, as it was held in an unmarked home near the church. We just walked in and joined in. After the service, we were blessed. But why wasn't there a notice about the mass in the Albergue next to the church, giving date, time, and location? I feel that the church has made itself the centre of a dwindling community (no more grocery store) except for the religion bit.
Hm, on that topic, perhaps we/you could volunteer to keep churches open by donating part of our holidays/vacations, rent a place in the respective village and spend 8 hours or so inside a church to take care that nothing bad happens ... Buen Camino, SY
@mspathAlbertagirl,
Today you probably are on route to Eunate. Lucky you!
A great spot to wile away the time when approaching Eunate via the Camino Aragones is the bar/resto El Camino on calle Mayor, in nearby Eneriz. Wonderful food and a simpatico welcome. Often filled with macho hunters late in the autumn.
Carpe diem and Buen camino!
If I were charged "a significant fee" to walk the Way, I doubt if I would ever do so. But then, it would have become something that I would not want to do.Jakke, you have been concerned by the 'exploitation' of pilgrims by those who live along the Ways; and, are perturbed by the absence of infrastructure to enable or entice pilgrims to enter churches along the Ways. Most of those old buildings you are passing see barely a dozen attend the monthly mass which the itinerant priest tries to organise within his circuit of parishes. Opening, lighting, securing those poor old stones for the benefit of the occasional passer-by is way beyond the economic or human resources of those places. Even in the larger towns congregations are a small percentage of populations.
Perhaps we should turn this all around. How about if pilgrims were charged a significant fee to walk the Way in exchange for which they gained guided access to points of interest without the need to seek out key-holders or priests? Perhaps every pilgrim should have to perform service - running the Alburgues, cleaning, repairing and care-taking the churches and other ancient monuments. Perhaps every pilgrim should be allocated a mojone or a bridge or a waymark that was their responsibility. Perhaps if we all want our caminos to comply with our expectations it is time that we worked on the delivery instead of relying on a nebulous population of others who should be responsible.
off topic but I can't help it...one small muni albergue, all the beds were single, no bunks. Talking with a young pilgrim ,who didn't speak English (important for story)--I was sitting on my bed, he was standing in front of me and quite close. While discussing the road, the next day, etc in our shared broken Spanish, he kept adjusting himself...inches away from my face. In mid broken Spanish I interjected "need help with that?' in English, then continued my plans for tomorrow in Spanish. Conversation over, I tried not to laugh as he walked away, still adjusting.I have just been distracted from writing this email by a young Italian male sitting on the bed next to me clad only in his very skimpy underpants and perfuming himself.
... How about if pilgrims were charged a significant fee to walk the Way in exchange for which they gained guided access to points of interest without the need to seek out key-holders or priests? Perhaps every pilgrim should have to perform service - running the Alburgues, cleaning, repairing and care-taking the churches and other ancient monuments. Perhaps every pilgrim should be allocated a mojone or a bridge or a waymark that was their responsibility. Perhaps if we all want our caminos to comply with our expectations it is time that we worked on the delivery instead of relying on a nebulous population of others who should be responsible.
Jakke, you have been concerned by the 'exploitation' of pilgrims by those who live along the Ways; and, are perturbed by the absence of infrastructure to enable or entice pilgrims to enter churches along the Ways. Most of those old buildings you are passing see barely a dozen attend the monthly mass which the itinerant priest tries to organise within his circuit of parishes. Opening, lighting, securing those poor old stones for the benefit of the occasional passer-by is way beyond the economic or human resources of those places. Even in the larger towns congregations are a small percentage of populations.
Perhaps we should turn this all around. How about if pilgrims were charged a significant fee to walk the Way in exchange for which they gained guided access to points of interest without the need to seek out key-holders or priests? Perhaps every pilgrim should have to perform service - running the Alburgues, cleaning, repairing and care-taking the churches and other ancient monuments. Perhaps every pilgrim should be allocated a mojone or a bridge or a waymark that was their responsibility. Perhaps if we all want our caminos to comply with our expectations it is time that we worked on the delivery instead of relying on a nebulous population of others who should be responsible.
An additional note. I know that, e.g., in Holland the Catholic church is known for trying to keep the church buildings open. Nice, but personally I would be even more interested in contact with active members - prirsts or laymen.Could be worth a try on a voluntary basis. Thanks for thinking with me!
Not much help to you now on your current route, but I looked at a book that listed all the convents and monasteries in Spain that provided lodging, and arranged a night at some of them...in some cases I could share meals and attend services, in all I had some chance for interaction besides a stamp in my credential. The monks especially were a talkative bunch, I could imagine you having great conversations.An additional note. I know that, e.g., in Holland the Catholic church is known for trying to keep the church buildings open. Nice, but personally I would be even more interested in contact with active members - prirsts or laymen.
I walked St Olav's in Norway last year with a pilgrim's office guided tour. Much of it was going church to church and meeting locals. I'll take walking on my own over that, as sometimes we didn't leave until lunch time because the local wasn't available to open the church until 11 a.m. For me a pilgrimage is a solitary experience, taking each day's gifts as they naturally unfold.An additional note. I know that, e.g., in Holland the Catholic church is known for trying to keep the church buildings open. Nice, but personally I would be even more interested in contact with active members - prirsts or laymen.
Possibly my thought is the result of the CP being underdeveloped and I'll see more as I go on. I am now in Tomar. This has been a pilgrimage in many ways. There are two things I have missed though:
Churches, that are actually open (any denomination), and
Churches, that try to actively (without pushy behaviour of course)
Reach out to the pilgrims that pass their doors. You'd think that would be up their ally...
Without getting into a religious debate here, what do you think? Could not they do more? I would welcome it. We're adult enough to decline an invitation if needed...
I'm sorry your Camino experience was not what you were expecting. Maybe it changed since 2012, but I walked several caminos then, including the norte/primitivo, and always felt welcomed by the local community and their churches. I stayed in several monasteries and convents, got into every church I wanted to see, had a few long discussions with priests and monks, and several short exchanges with very kind sisters. I don't know if there is something similar for the portugues, but for spanish caminos i found the following useful:You are 100% right. I am not religious at all but i could not believe the minimal involvement of the churches. It's supposed to b a pilgrimage. They didnt even have boards with address for albergues or information to help you on your journey. Most of the churches we passed were closed. Im glad i didn't do it as a religious experience or i would've been livid
You are 100% right. I am not religious at all but i could not believe the minimal involvement of the churches. It's supposed to b a pilgrimage. They didnt even have boards with address for albergues or information to help you on your journey. Most of the churches we passed were closed. Im glad i didn't do it as a religious experience or i would've been livid
I am an art historian and I also loved stopping in the churches and attending pilgrim's masses along the Camino Frances in July. The churches were one of my favorite parts of the Camino. Right outside of Melide there is the small church of Santa María de Melide right on the Camino. Its interior is covered with the most amazing 15th century frescos. The day we visited there was a young Spanish pilgrim volunteer who gave a brief, docent-type tour of the interior. I stayed for about a half hour and heard him give it in Spanish, English, and French. At the entrance to the church he had set up a small card table with cold lemonade and cookies for passing pilgrims. Although I don't feel a vocation to be a volunteer hospitalera, at the time and ever since I have returned, I could envision myself spending several weeks at a village or town on the Camino and watching over and giving brief tours of a church or chapel.
Peg studied art and it may be fair to call me a history nut. We had a hoot giving an impromptu tag team lecture to some Japanese pilgrims in front of some paintings at the cathedral's museum in Astorga. Actually, thinking about it, we had done this before in Boston where the audience was a museum guard (immigrant) and the subject was a painting of a famous battle where a remote cousin was a minor figure. I think he appreciated both the art and the history. Maybe we should find us a camino church.Although I don't feel a vocation to be a volunteer hospitalera, at the time and ever since I have returned, I could envision myself spending several weeks at a village or town on the Camino and watching over and giving brief tours of a church or chapel.
I wouldn't demand open churches (but am overjoyed when they are open), but would very much appreciate a sign with times of masses. (I have frequently had luck in the mornings, when the old ladies are cleaning the churches, and one times was asked to climb the steep steps to a side altar to replace the flowers because they were too steep for the volunteers.)
Ah, sure. Still, I wish there would be more of an efford. I am in Tui now. I was invited by a café owner to their services. That's it, for all of Portugal. One invite with a shy smile and almost apoligetic attitude.Welcome to the forum @boski. An interesting viewpoint. You have no religion or interest, presumably, in the institutions of the church and yet you feel the church should have your interests in mind? I'm sure some of the churches struggle to believe the minimal involvement of many 'pilgrims'. "It's supposed to b a pilgrimage." Pilgrimage is in the heart not the landscape.
Obrigado!!See this handy map re masses along the camino .
First created 2010/updated 2012 in Google maps and entitled Parroquias de los Caminos de Santiago, this lists opening times for churches and the mass times as of 2012. You might copy the map as a KML file to then add to your own set of Google maps for further reference while walking. Or you could click print to make a continuous flat copy with a wealth of reference data.
For more posts re mass on the camino see this earlier Forum thread.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-is-it-possible-to-go-to-mass-everyday.36876/
I'm so sorry! I remember you really wanted to have that sort of interaction, and tried to prepare so well for it before you left (in some really interesting threads here). I hope it improves, and certainly it should in Santiago.Ah, sure. Still, I wish there would be more of an efford. I am in Tui now. I was invited by a café owner to their services. That's it, for all of Portugal. One invite with a shy smile and almost apoligetic attitude.
Obrigado!I'm so sorry! I remember you really wanted to have that sort of interaction, and tried to prepare so well for it before you left (in some really interesting threads here). I hope it improves, and certainly it should in Santiago.
Buen Camino
Oh for f)*&£ )@%(%*&@&Y£$**(())£$@£!@*)_(_)&(^&%^£!@()___^$$$£!"I'm a pilgrim. I don't have time to go to church!"
Welcome to the forum @boski. An interesting viewpoint. You have no religion or interest, presumably, in the institutions of the church and yet you feel the church should have your interests in mind? I'm sure some of the churches struggle to believe the minimal involvement of many 'pilgrims'. "It's supposed to b a pilgrimage." Pilgrimage is in the heart not the landscape.
True. And I think our Portuguese friends are catching on as well.A hearty thanks to any and all of the Spanish people who have tried to enhance the pilgrimage experience for all of us. I am especially grateful for all of the "Buen caminos" from the locals. Sometimes it lifted me up when I was tired or discouraged. I so love Spain!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?