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I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.
We should start taking bets with the OP's permission as he will have to confirm on arrival @ OrrisonAnswering the OP question, I did 6 hs approx from Orisson. But I had walked the three previous hours from SJPP.
Also, in my experience, you should add 20% more time with a backpack
So, with a B+T factor ("B" for backpack, "T" for tiredness) correction, I`d say my time will be 5 1/2.
My rule would be:
* 5 km/h in a flat terrain
* 4 km/h with backpack
* 3 km/h with backpack, in a good, but quite steep road.
Adjusted scientifically for a sixty something walker.
This is very good council.they rushed a walk and didn't enjoy a journey
There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ
Hello, all, I'm looking to do my second mini-Camino around the 8th of September (SJPP to Puente dela Reina). Having done Sarria to Santiago a few years ago, I've always wanted to begin in SJPP, and do a little bit over the years to get my Camino "fix" every couple of years.
I am about to embark on a totally separate life journey (unexpectedly moving from UK to Asia), and I thought that doing stage of the Camino (albeit on short notice) will somehow help me accept my new life. I do remember embracing the simplicity of putting my left foot in front of my right, then the other, and somehow walking 29km in one day! I also remember the comfort of my friends, those helpful yellow arrows that led the way. Hopefully I can call on these for my UK to Asia "camino"! But I digress.
Due to the short notice, I have done no training and have only TWO WEEKS left to train. As such, I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route. I want the walk to be rewarding for her too, as she is walking mainly to support me. (We are booking our accommodation in advance and getting luggage transferred ahead of us, again, due to me being unable to carry any more than I have to! I would love to be able to forward parts of my body to the next hotel LOL.)
I, on the other hand, need to ascertain if I can make it without getting a heart attack. (I am 183lbs and it takes me 1hr15min to walk 5km on a FLAT city road!). So although I am partial to Orisson, I would like to know how long it took you guys to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles bit. That's roughly a 600m ascent over 14km.
Also, I'm struggling to find a link that directly compares the two routes. Ideally what I would love is links to photos that show the terrain / incline, ideally in videos! Can anyone help? Thanks! Sarah
Thank you so much for this!!! On my first camino our days would start at 8am and end at 7pm not due to the length of walks, but the numerous cafes stops where we met so many people. (Plus a good excuse to rest....)I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule
Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.
So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.
Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)
You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.
However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.
Shame, we will miss you by a day! We aim to start in SJPP and overnight in Orisson on the 9th. If I walk THAT slow, you may overtake me to Roncesvalles LOLGracias - what a great video. As a starter on 10 September, I hope my weather is as good as that day. I too, was worried about my fitness, but I'm overnighting in Orrison so I'm really looking forward to 'taking those first steps' now.
I am in the "rather overweight" category! I can imagine taking 12 hours or more. I guess I just have to start EARLY. There is something about starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees that I have wanted to do since my first mini-Camino (Sarria to Santiago). If I start early enough and walk as slow as I think I will, then I believe I will meet every pilgrim walking the route from Orisson to Roncesvalles that day, as everyone will overtake me!It took me 8 hours from Orisson to Roncesvalles in June this year. I had sent my bag with Express Bourricot: a good decision! I arrived at about 5.00 p.m. I later met an American lady who arrived at 7.00 p.m. She told me that the volunteers greeting pilgrims said: "Surely this MUST be the last one!" BTW, I am 71 and she was rather overweight.
Hahahaa, I'm half turtle, half pigHi fellow turtle! The more I walk on pilgrimage, the slower I get ;-) Buen Camino Peregrina Tortuga! SY
I am overweight as well. When I walked last year, I stopped overnight at Orrison, had my back pack delivered. The first day took me 5-6 hours. On the second day, I came up with a plan because I didn't want to have a heart attack. (A doctor had died from one just two weeks before). I don't know if this actually helped me physically, but mentally, it did. I walked for 45 minutes, rested 15 minutes. I had also brought with me a small bag of almonds and dried cranberries. I snacked on those. It took me between 8-9 hours the second day.I am in the "rather overweight" category! I can imagine taking 12 hours or more. I guess I just have to start EARLY. There is something about starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees that I have wanted to do since my first mini-Camino (Sarria to Santiago). If I start early enough and walk as slow as I think I will, then I believe I will meet every pilgrim walking the route from Orisson to Roncesvalles that day, as everyone will overtake me!That's a lot of "buen camino's" to keep me going!
Absolutely agree with Alexwalker, focus should not be on the "how fast", especially the first days.
But, calculating your speed can be important if you're a rather unexperienced walker, simply to make sure you reach your destination in time (for example before it gets dark).
An experienced walker does know already how fast/slow they usually will be, and also how weather/exhaustion/general mood that day ect. will influence their speed. Someone who has not learned that yet needs to test under different circumstances to know for certain.
So, if you have no idea how long it will take you to walk up a mountain, why not simply do a day hike or even half-day hike to find out? Put on your backpack, walk a few kilometers up a steeper hill, and you'll get at least an idea.
(Of course, for that, there need to be hills/mountains not too far away from where you live.)
I do give the advice to find out yourself, if you can, instead of relying on "average" times, because I found out the hard way how spectacularly slow I am uphill. To get an idea on how slow... it took me twice the time most people need to get from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles! Of course, that's an extreme, but I think it's a good example to show that the "average" time you'll read about in guide books ect. can be very different from reality, for some, depending on circumstances.
If I had calculated with the "average" walking speed and tried to walk the Napoleon route in one day, it probably would have ended with a funny thread in this forum, about a pilgrim that was so slow that even though they started at 7am in St Jean, had to camp overnight on the mountain...
[Edit: In order not scare any new pilgrims, maybe I should make clear again that my snail pace is very unusual. For most, 3-4km/h will be a comfortable average, and if you start early enough, St. Jean/Roncesvalles in one day is perfectly doable, as all the people who do it every day prove. My comment is simply meant to give an example for why not to rely only on what others say/write, and encourage to find out things yourself, too. You should be the expert regarding your own body and skills!]
Absolutely agree with Alexwalker, focus should not be on the "how fast", especially the first days.
But, calculating your speed can be important if you're a rather unexperienced walker, simply to make sure you reach your destination in time (for example before it gets dark).
An experienced walker does know already how fast/slow they usually will be, and also how weather/exhaustion/general mood that day ect. will influence their speed. Someone who has not learned that yet needs to test under different circumstances to know for certain.
So, if you have no idea how long it will take you to walk up a mountain, why not simply do a day hike or even half-day hike to find out? Put on your backpack, walk a few kilometers up a steeper hill, and you'll get at least an idea.
(Of course, for that, there need to be hills/mountains not too far away from where you live.)
I do give the advice to find out yourself, if you can, instead of relying on "average" times, because I found out the hard way how spectacularly slow I am uphill. To get an idea on how slow... it took me twice the time most people need to get from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles! Of course, that's an extreme, but I think it's a good example to show that the "average" time you'll read about in guide books ect. can be very different from reality, for some, depending on circumstances.
If I had calculated with the "average" walking speed and tried to walk the Napoleon route in one day, it probably would have ended with a funny thread in this forum, about a pilgrim that was so slow that even though they started at 7am in St Jean, had to camp overnight on the mountain...
[Edit: In order not scare any new pilgrims, maybe I should make clear again that my snail pace is very unusual. For most, 3-4km/h will be a comfortable average, and if you start early enough, St. Jean/Roncesvalles in one day is perfectly doable, as all the people who do it every day prove. My comment is simply meant to give an example for why not to rely only on what others say/write, and encourage to find out things yourself, too. You should be the expert regarding your own body and skills!][/
Is anyone starting walk Monday 29 th August
I land in Biarritz airport scared
There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ
St. Jean to Orisson is about 630 m elevation change in 7.8 km or a grade of 8.1%The first stage, for St. Jean Pied de Port to the albergue in Roncesvalles, is nominally 26 kilometers. The first 8 Km, or so, are brutal for most hikers, experienced or not. I do not know what the actual grade percentage is, but it IS considered to be the toughest portion of the entire Camino Frances.
Also bear in mind that Naismith was an optimist!I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule
Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.
So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.
Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)
You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.
However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.
Love the math!!!!I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule
Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.
So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.
Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)
You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.
However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.
Well said, and my plan for the caminoThis is a question that is impossible to answer correctly. It is about attitude. Physically, it's about 8 kms hard climb to Orrison. Next day, it's about 20 kms mostly (easier) climb and then a steep descent to RV. It should take 6-7 hours. But: What is an hour? If you are rushing it, and very fit, yes, you can go (run) fast. And miss out on a beautiful day.
I refrain from further discussions on speed. IMHO; wrong focus on the very first day on the Camino, which is supposed to be, and is there, for you to enjoy and let it open new perspectives to the rest of your life.
Many pilgrims will anyway regret, in front of the cathedral in Santiago, that they rushed a walk and didn't enjoy a journey. The end can be bitter for many, with their newfound insights.. But it is not easy to tell to an eager new/firsttime pilgrim: It must be experienced.
Edit: Not to mention: Focusing on speed and mileage the first 2-3-5 days can put you into serious trouble regarding blisters etc. Many wannabie pilgrims have terminated their Camino during first week due to physical damage. Take it easy and enjoy your big adventure all through.
Fantastic! Looking forward to ot mThere is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ
There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ
Hello, all, I'm looking to do my second mini-Camino around the 8th of September (SJPP to Puente dela Reina). Having done Sarria to Santiago a few years ago, I've always wanted to begin in SJPP, and do a little bit over the years to get my Camino "fix" every couple of years.
I am about to embark on a totally separate life journey (unexpectedly moving from UK to Asia), and I thought that doing stage of the Camino (albeit on short notice) will somehow help me accept my new life. I do remember embracing the simplicity of putting my left foot in front of my right, then the other, and somehow walking 29km in one day! I also remember the comfort of my friends, those helpful yellow arrows that led the way. Hopefully I can call on these for my UK to Asia "camino"! But I digress.
Due to the short notice, I have done no training and have only TWO WEEKS left to train. As such, I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route. I want the walk to be rewarding for her too, as she is walking mainly to support me. (We are booking our accommodation in advance and getting luggage transferred ahead of us, again, due to me being unable to carry any more than I have to! I would love to be able to forward parts of my body to the next hotel LOL.)
I, on the other hand, need to ascertain if I can make it without getting a heart attack. (I am 183lbs and it takes me 1hr15min to walk 5km on a FLAT city road!). So although I am partial to Orisson, I would like to know how long it took you guys to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles bit. That's roughly a 600m ascent over 14km.
Also, I'm struggling to find a link that directly compares the two routes. Ideally what I would love is links to photos that show the terrain / incline, ideally in videos! Can anyone help? Thanks! Sarah
Thank you, Susan! Appreciate it!Sarah,
You didn't say how many days you are allowing to walk to Puente la Reina, but you will definitely find this section (SJPdP to Puente la Reina) more difficult than Sarria to Santiago. It is definitely doable but take your time, take breaks and don't try to put too many KM's in a day. Walk to your fitness level. Stopping at Orisson is not only a welcome physical rest, but you will find it a delightful time spend with other pilgrims. We made lasting friendships at the communal dinner. Be sure to have them make you a sandwich for the next days walk to Roncesvalles. There are no towns or places to buy food along the way except for a possible food truck that sells drinks, cheese and fruit. (It was there last fall when I walked but not on my spring camino.)
Also, many pilgrims underestimate the next days walk into Zubiri. If possible I would not plan to walk further and note that both times I was there, the town was completo (no beds available) by 3 p.m.. The next day(s) walk into Pamplona is easier. Although, both times I broke it up into 2 days as I wished to stay in the special Albergue in Zabaldika run by Sisters of the Sacred Heart. If you are seeking a spiritual experience this was the best of the Camino. They do not take reservations, and only have 18 beds, but if you leave Zubiri on the early side you will be there in plenty of time to get a bed.
Also note that your walk includes the climb and descent to/from Alto del Perdon. The descent being very rocky. I highly suggest that you have two poles to protect you from injury. These will be helpful for your entire walk and help ease the burden on your knees and hips.
While you have some challenges, this section is beautiful and if you just take your time, listen to your body and rest every 5 or 6 kim's you can have a rewarding and beautiful Camino.
Buen Camino!!
Both the Valcarlos and napoleon routes 'cross the Pyrenees'...but they're not at all like the rugged mountains futher East. More like foothills. Big foothills. So either way is a challenge.starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees
The 7kms up to Ibaneta on the Valcarlos route are really 'Interesting.' Now I see why, Rick. Thank you for posting the math.St. Jean to Orisson is about 630 m elevation change in 7.8 km or a grade of 8.1%
On the Valcarlos route Ganecoleta to Puerto Ibaneta has about a 650 m elevation change in 7.4 km or a grade of 8.8%
OK. So here is the myth: the Napoleon Route is more scenic and more authentic than the Valcarlos Route.I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route.
If I didn't meet 2 angels who were having as hard a time as I did I might still be sitting on the side of that mountain roasting slugs over a camp fire. We got each other over it by laughing our asses off at how pathetic we were.
such a shame theres no eyeroll emojii here!!As @Rick of Rick and Peg politely points out, your question is impossible to answer. However, you might try doing your own calculations using a calculator like the one at http://org.wildwalks.com/bushcraft/technical-stuff/naismith-s-rule-estimate-walking-time.html.
If you are going to use this, you might do some sensitivity testing. For example, the RouteCommunities track for the Orisson-Roncesvalles leg when mapped onto Google Earth suggests this leg is 16.8 km with a climb of 811 m and descent of 661 m. Without any fitness correction, at 4 kph the calculator suggests this would take just over six hours. If @falcon269 is closer to the mark at 18 km, this would add 15 minutes or more.
If you are not fit, you will need to add more. And as has been pointed out already, how much time you think you might add in for stops also needs to be factored in, and none of us will know that now - not even you.
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