Yellowfriend
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Porto- Santiago / Fisterra- Muxia sept 2016
SJPP- Santiago may 2017planninh
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Much depends upon how tightly you are prepared to pack things into the backpack, and to a lesser extent, whether you have to carry any particularly large, high density items. My personal experience is that packing around 200gm/li gives sufficient room to access things within most of the pack without having to unload it. By around 250 gm/li things are getting tight, and by 300 gm/li, only the top layer (or layer closest to one of the zips) is accessible without unpacking.I saw different sizes, what is the average size for a backpack for the CF. I try to take a maximum of 9 kg with me.
Thank you!
Thank you! The old one (also new ; ) is a daypack, 20 l. So it was my daypack as I sended my luggage forward on my CP. Is was my trial Camino, with sending luggage and staying in hotels. So this time I Will arrange it all by myself without a organisation and package deal so this time it Will be different, that is why it is more difficult for me to oversee everthing in what to organise and prebook the first nights and how to walk to Roncevalles etc ; ) . I walk alone again.That is really a bit like comparing apples and pears ;-) Kg is weight and l is volume, you could pack 9kg of lead in a very tiny backpack and would need a much larger one for 9kg of feathers ;-)
The item which takes typically the most space up is the sleeping bag, followed by clothes, sandals/evening shoes, also important how big is your first aid/personal hygiene kit. You can save some volume (sleeping bag/clothes) by using compression bags. It also depends on how many compartments and outside pockets your backpack has.
I see that you have already done one Camino, so that should give you an idea what you really need and how much bigger/smaller your backpack can be. Also 9kg for a May Camino Francés is a bit on the heavy side, even with water and snacks included.
The best advice I can give you is first to sort the rest of your gear out (perhaps even post a packing list here for help) and then look for a new backpack (btw what was wrong with your old one?).
Buen Camino, SY
Much depends upon how tightly you are prepared to pack things into the backpack, and to a lesser extent, whether you have to carry any particularly large, high density items. My personal experience is that packing around 200gm/li gives sufficient room to access things within most of the pack without having to unload it. By around 250 gm/li things are getting tight, and by 300 gm/li, only the top layer (or layer closest to one of the zips) is accessible without unpacking.
@Waka, you don't say what you pack weight was. Are you prepared to reveal that?
The item which takes typically the most space up is the sleeping bag, followed by clothes, sandals/evening shoes, also important how big is your first aid/personal hygiene kit. You can save some volume (sleeping bag/clothes) by using compression bags. It also depends on how many compartments and outside pockets your backpack has.
Funny word "rucksack"I was going to opine 35 liters, off the cuff. However, our resident packing / volume expert "DougFitz" has weighed in. Seriously, he KNOWS his stuff. Doug has worked this all out. Take it to the bank.
This also explains why I keep coming back to my 48 liter Osprey Kestrel rucksack. I have tried smaller capacity bags, only to prove each of Doug's data points each and every time. Compression (kg / liter) and the overall mass (weight) of your stuff yields the optimum rucksack size.
After four Caminos, and testing packs from 30 to 48 liters I have reached these conclusions:
I must carry about 12 Kg, for reasons of health, diet; and being a large fellow, my stuff is larger and weighs more. Try as I might, I have only once gotten the weight down to 11 Kg, all-in.
Using Doug's rules-of-thumb (above) 12 Kg at about 200 gm / liter equals about 44 - 45 liters. My 48 liter pack seems to work well under all conditions, in all seasons. It also affords me enough capacity to stash everything inside the pack, without any "dangly bits" on the outside. I do not like "dangly bits." They are IMHO unsightly, make noise while you are walking, and are susceptible to being "appropriated" by others at rest stops.
Finally, my only opinion is to allow extra space for things you pick up along the way, even if it is only snacks, or the occasional souvenir. In my experience, on a long Camino, extra items seem to "sneak" into your rucksack...
Bottom line...listen to Doug...he's real smart!
I hope this helps.
Interesting.Funny word "rucksack"
I do not know where it comes from but in Dutch (not double dutch btw) the backpack is called "rugzak" A"rug" is the back of a human being or animal. A "zak " is a bag
Btw. Mine is an Ospray Atmos 55 liters. Very comfortable and place enough to store and is not heavy
My backpack ,walking from Lisbon to Santiago weighed 7 kgs and I had all stuff in I needed.
our resident packing / volume expert "DougFitz" has weighed in. Seriously, he KNOWS his stuff. Doug has worked this all out. Take it to the bank.
The item which takes typically the most space up is the sleeping bag, followed by clothes, sandals/evening shoes, also important how big is your first aid/personal hygiene kit. You can save some volume (sleeping bag/clothes) by using compression bags. It also depends on how many compartments and outside pockets your backpack has.
I was going to opine 35 liters, off the cuff... [BUT] My 48 liter pack seems to work well under all conditions
The same approach and ranges of volume apply throughout the year.No mention of the most important fact - what time of year is he going?
Maybe you will end up with a 50-60 L bag, but you don't need that volume! I happily walked with 31 L in November.You'll need a 50 - 60 liter pack.
I go begin may for the CF.No mention of the most important fact - what time of year is he going?
I know that he has started his question with 8kg and later mentions a 20L day pack
Well if I were going in Summer I'd replace the sleeping bag with a silk liner and, even with water for the warmest days, the day pack would be fine
I am 1.58m so I just orderded the Deuter Act lite 35l (can make 10l bigger) and it is 1,5 kg. You can make the back bigger and smaller and it is special for women, so I try this one outbat home.To shorten my earlier advice: If the backpack fits you perfectly and weights around a kilo (or less), can hold all your intended gear and is within your budget > BUY IT! Buen Camino, SY
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I am 1.58m so I just orderded the Deuter Act lite 35l (can make 10l bigger) and it is 1,5 kg. You can make the back bigger and smaller and it is special for women, so I try this one outbat home.
I am 1.62 m tall but have a short back length. I'm very happy with the Osprey Talon 33, in the S/M size. It weighs less than 1 kg and is adjustable for back length. The capacity of 31 L is enough if you are disciplined.
Since I stand accused of 'over-analysing' this, let me continue! At 1.58m tall your BMI=25 weight would be about 63kg. Provided that you weren't technically obese you would be less than 75kg. Using one of my other rules of thumb, I would suggest that for a summer camino, you would need a pack of around 30 to 35 li. The pack you have chosen should be quite adequate for a summer camino, and even have enough space for the extra you might need to carry if you were planning to walk in spring or autumn. Indeed, you might be at greater risk of being tempted to carry too much than to not have enough room - you will need to be disciplined in your packing and not just be tempted to fill the pack because you have the volume.I am 1.58m so I just orderded the Deuter Act lite 35l (can make 10l bigger) and it is 1,5 kg. You can make the back bigger and smaller and it is special for women, so I try this one outbat home.
Thanks! Decathlon is only 50 km away : )))@Yellowfriend
Do you have Decathlon in the Netherlands or are near the border? If yes, have a look at this one: https://www.decathlon.de/rucksack-arpenaz-40-id_8332416.html
40l / 640g / 20 Euro
I used it on shorter caminos like the Via Regia in Spring (470km) and was very happy with it. But you need to try it out and see if it fits you. If it does fit it is a perfect weight/price deal.
Buen Camino, SY
Do you like this backpack?Same pack here. Am ten centimetre taller but also short back length.
Do you like this backpack?
Thanks! Decathlon is only 50 km away : )))
My original calculations around this were based on base pack weight (BPW), which is the pack and everything in it less the consumables (food, water, medications, etc). As you say, factoring in water has its complexities, as does factoring in the effect of the weight of worn clothing and carried equipment. In any case, BPW is the measure used in the guidance that was once on the CSJ website*, and is the basis for the much abused '10% rule'.@dougfitz Do you include water in the weight? If I do, my density creeps up to 225g/L. But you would have to factor in what water carrying method is used and whether it intrudes on the nominal capacity of the backpack. Tall water bottles would extend above the side pockets of mine, so only a portion (if any) would occupy the official volume. However an integrated system would use up space.
OK. I'm guessing that you don't include water for this exercise as its density is pretty fixed, but that would be fun to take into account.
That is absolutely not true. There are many, many packs well under 50 liters with frames and hip belts. Even the Gregory Jade 28(liter) has a frame and hip belt.You'll need a 50 - 60 liter pack. There isn't a whole lot of weight difference for packs in this size range so get one that fits you.
Most packs with less volume do not have a frame with associated hip belt. The frame transfers the weight to the hip belt and the load is carried on your hips.
As does my 18li Deuter ACT Lite. It is a great little daypack. I also have a couple of frameless packs around this size, and have just given up on them being comfortable for me. I agree that you don't need to be thinking that a larger pack is the only way to get design features like a good frame and harness. They are available on many smaller packs from different makers.Even the Gregory Jade 28(liter) has a frame and hip belt.
That is absolutely not true. There are many, many packs well under 50 liters with frames and hip belts. Even the Gregory Jade 28(liter) has a frame and hip belt.
Funny word "rucksack"
I do not know where it comes from but in Dutch (not double dutch btw) the backpack is called "rugzak" A"rug" is the back of a human being or animal. A "zak " is a bag
Btw. Mine is an Ospray Atmos 55 liters. Very comfortable and place enough to store and is not heavy
My backpack ,walking from Lisbon to Santiago weighed 7 kgs and I had all stuff in I needed.
Here's the etymology for you. It is similar in many languages, either because they are closely related or because it became a loanword from another language. The origin is an Alpine German dialect. Today it's Rucksack in standard German, also in English and French (although I never heard anyone say it in French), ruksak in Croatian, Macedonian, Serbian, Slovak and Czech, rjukzak in Russian, ryakkusaku in Japanese, rygsaek in Danish, ryggsekk in Norvegian, ryggsäck in Swedish. Japanese took it over from English and not from German.
Oh, and the military invented it/took it over/refined it - in the 1600s when armies in Europe became more professional armies who carried their stuff with them instead of the mercenary armies who ransacked, plundered and destroyed whole regions to get their vital supplies. It became popular with the general population in the 1900s with the start of the ramblers' movement. A rucksack is different from the rigid containers used by people to transport stuff on their backs in the Middle Ages.
Thanks! Decathlon is only 50 km away : )))
Yellowfriend, order online.
Je kan het ook online bestellen. Scheelt je een rit van 100 km.
Succes!
Marcel
I enjoy detailed discussions that attempt to ferret out and share our experiencesSince I stand accused of 'over-analysing' this, let me continue!
On the other hand Marcel : I personally prefer to see and try out a backpack and shoes. Really are the most expensive items in one's kit ( normally ). Trouser, shirts and the likes : those I will buy online if needed.
Totally agree with it! You are right, you have to feel a click with sack and shoes. The chassis and wheels of your Camino. The funny thing is: I would drive 100 kms for it
My Osprey Talon (33 l) was just big enough for my 9 kg (including a 2 litre Camelbak bladder) last year. My experience is that if the pack is too big, you just fill it with stuff you don't need.I saw different sizes, what is the average size for a backpack for the CF. I try to take a maximum of 9 kg with me.
Thank you!
I used a 37 liter Osprey. It was a perfect size. I carried 8.5 kg in it.I saw different sizes, what is the average size for a backpack for the CF. I try to take a maximum of 9 kg with me.
Thank you!
My husband works in LeeuwardenYellowfriend, order online.
Je kan het ook online bestellen. Scheelt je een rit van 100 km.
Succes!
Marcel
Yes me too, part of the pre fun ; ))))Totally agree with it! You are right, you have to feel a click with sack and shoes. The chassis and wheels of your Camino. The funny thing is: I would drive 100 kms for it
Yellowfriend you start the Camino France in May ?I saw different sizes, what is the average size for a backpack for the CF. I try to take a maximum of 9 kg with me.
Thank you!
I arrive 30 april in St Jean and start walking 1 may. It Will be nice to see youYellowfriend you start the Camino France in May ?
That means I will be walking behind you
I leave the last week in April !
I am from Borculo
I travel by Thalys to Paris and transfer to TGV to Bayonne and from there to St Jean
that's because the Army and Marines like one syllable words. In the Air Force we use porters.Interesting.
In the US military a pack is often called a "ruck".
"pick up your rucks, and get moving"
"drop your rucks...the smoking lamp is lit"
ha ha....that's because the Army and Marines like one syllable words. In the Air Force we use porters.
There probably aren't enough five star hotels for you eitherthat's because the Army and Marines like one syllable words. In the Air Force we use porters.
they just told you that was only for your birthday...it was actually every Tuesday.ha ha....
Y'all do have the best chow halls I ever experienced. I remember the one at Hickam back in the 80's had great food. If it was your birthday...steak and lobster.
There's a marathon I like to do, the Bataan Memorial at Whitesands NM. I enter in the military heavy (boots. full military pack. uniform. 2l water) and we are in the last starting group, behind the civilians and the military light (no pack). I was standing around with the mostly Army guys one time, in my flight suit and pack, and they asked "does the Air Force compete in this". "no," I answered, "I'm just waiting for my airport shuttle."There probably aren't enough five star hotels for you either.
I would nuance this by suggesting that there is a minimum volume needed to make a packing list work, after which size is less important than fit. But as with these things, the risk moves from not having enough room for everything you really need to being tempted to take things that you wouldn't take if you didn't have the room. As many of us know, it is easier to fill a pack than to empty until it is just enough.In this case, size really doesn't matter...fit does.
whaaaaat....they just told you that was only for your birthday...it was actually every Tuesday.
The British Army calls it a Bergen.Interesting.
In the US military a pack is often called a "ruck".
"pick up your rucks, and get moving"
"drop your rucks...the smoking lamp is lit"
the OP was initially just asking for a WAG to how big a pack to get
Decathlon is coming up now in the Netherlands. The other day they started up a branch here in Rotterdam where I live.@Yellowfriend
Do you have Decathlon in the Netherlands or are near the border? If yes, have a look at this one: https://www.decathlon.de/rucksack-arpenaz-40-id_8332416.html
40l / 640g / 20 Euro
I used it on shorter caminos like the Via Regia in Spring (470km) and was very happy with it. But you need to try it out and see if it fits you. If it does fit it is a perfect weight/price deal.
Buen Camino, SY
I advice to go to a shop and fit all sorts being adviced by the staff and feel yourself what the best is rather than buying one in a webshop.View attachment 29918 View attachment 29919 View attachment 29918 View attachment 29919
I am 1.58m so I just orderded the Deuter Act lite 35l (can make 10l bigger) and it is 1,5 kg. You can make the back bigger and smaller and it is special for women, so I try this one outbat home.
the Bever shop is just around the cornerTotally agree with it! You are right, you have to feel a click with sack and shoes. The chassis and wheels of your Camino. The funny thing is: I would drive 100 kms for it
Thank you! Going to Bever today, here in Groningen they didn't have the Osprey 36, so today we are going stopping in Leeuwarden, Bever and Decathlon : )I advice to go to a shop and fit all sorts being adviced by the staff and feel yourself what the best is rather than buying one in a webshop.
So we discovered in the "Bever" shop (outdoor chain here in the Netherlands-that my wife found an Opsprey "ladyfit- 50 ltrs model and for myself the Osprey Atmos 55 ltr.
We walked 4 times -first time the longdistance Pieterpad here in the Netherlands and 3 times the caminho Portugues and the camino Inglès.
Both packs still are in perfect condition. .
But Michael what is your packinglist ?My 2 cents are just 2 cents. I used an Osprey Talon 33ltrs and I never carry more than 6kgs which is 5% of my body weight. Perfect for the CP in September and I even might get the weight down a bit. Only extra weight for me was food and water to the 6kgs which included also the clothes I was wearing.....I don´t really need much as I found out.
Oeps I will be walking in front of you that means that I have to slow down a bitYellowfriend you start the Camino France in May ?
That means I will be walking behind you
I leave the last week in April !
I am from Borculo
DougSince I stand accused of 'over-analysing' this, let me continue! At 1.58m tall your BMI=25 weight would be about 63kg. Provided that you weren't technically obese you would be less than 75kg. Using one of my other rules of thumb, I would suggest that for a summer camino, you would need a pack of around 30 to 35 li. The pack you have chosen should be quite adequate for a summer camino, and even have enough space for the extra you might need to carry if you were planning to walk in spring or autumn. Indeed, you might be at greater risk of being tempted to carry too much than to not have enough room - you will need to be disciplined in your packing and not just be tempted to fill the pack because you have the volume.
For those that don't understand the linkage between weight and volume, it is key to understanding why some of the advice one sees on pack volume is okay, and some is just rubbish, to be brutally honest. As @t2andreo points out, if you are larger, your packing weight will also be greater as a result. It stands to reason that the common factor is not pack size, but the packing density that is achieved. If two pilgrims pack at the same packing density, then the one who has the heavier load will need more volume. Those of us with a bare pack weight (BPW) target of 10kg are going to need a pack 25% larger than someone with a BPW target of only 8kg for the same packing density.
So when I see someone recommend a particular pack volume without first establishing some basic context such as the height and weight of the person, and whether they are walking in summer or another season, it is immediately clear they do not have enough information for their advice to be well founded in the relevant facts.
BTW, @Waka's packing density was about 250 gm/li based on his assessment that he was only using about 35li of a 35+10li pack. This year I walked with a pack just a little over that, and it is clearly workable, but I found it fairly tight. I needed to carefully consider making sure things I might need during the day were placed where they were readily accessible so that I didn't need to unpack to get at something.
But Michael what is your packinglist ?
I myself will start the Camino France last week of April
What will I need ?
I could give you my email adress if you want so !
Jan
And is part of the pre fun of my next Camino, can't wait.
How are you back home?
Thank you for the list !Here my list:
Rucksack: 35ltrs - Osprey Talon & 2 dry sacks
Water-Resistant liner bag for your rucksack.
Lightweight sturdy boots + crocs
3 pairs of socks
sleeping bag
rainjacket
walking pole
2 sets pants
2 pairs walking trousers
2 t-shirts
1 long-sleeve fleece jacket
Broad-brimmed hat & head scarf
Passport, travel tickets, pilgrim record/credencial, credit cards, money (all in money belt or chest pouch)
Mobile phone
Sunglasses
Shower gel, toothpaste, toothbrush, tissues, nail clippers, lip balm, sun protection
Medicine and first aid kit
Towel
notebook/guide and pen
Chargers for electronic devices and plug adapter.
Plastic spoon + fork
foldable rucksack for the evenings
LED head lamp
Hi Mark,
yeah, we had MOLLE gear when I was in Afghanistan. I just couldn't tell if that was on the pack.Hi Mark,
If it's MOLLE (pronounced Molly) then there are all sorts of add on pouches - there are attachment ladder straps all over them - great for ammo clips and granades but a bit impractical for your average pilgrim!
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