For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
But if a house is donativo then they have to accept less.
.
This is my opinion also....I do not think that others - no matter how generous and hospitable - should have to subsidise my wanderings.
Why?
Bradypus, I think (but might be wrong) that Robo's 'why?' was in relation to anniethenurse who wrote at the end of her post
But if a house is donativo then they have to accept less.
I just don't follow the logic that donativo means less......
Surely it just means the actual amount is at the discretion of the 'guest'?
You are seeing this more and more these days, a donativo with a price. Santa Clara for example on the Portuguese (7 euros), or the private albergue in Salas on the Primitivo (10 euros). Even got a receipt from a donativo this time around, but can't recall where. Oh, and the Muni in Valenca also charges a 5 Euro donativo.But wouldn't it be better to give an indication of what was considered appropriate to 'donate' so as to avoid the situation the OP describes? There could always be a notice to the effect that anyone in real hardship could leave less, but a guideline (rather than a charge) would ensure that costs were covered and perhaps a little extra given to allow for the effort made by the hospitaleros.
Dave, So inspired by your story. I am surprised at the way way how other pilgrims have treated you when you were in need. I remember an American lady travelling with her son lost her wallet and a fellow gave her enough money to stay in a hotel until they can get their credit/debit cards replaced. So, forgive and move on.One day soon I will be back, and I fully intend to repay the kindness shown to me. Please give what you can to these donativo establishments.
Davey
Dave, So inspired by your story. I am surprised at the way way how other pilgrims have treated you when you were in need. I remember an American lady travelling with her son lost her wallet and a fellow gave her enough money to stay in a hotel until they can get their credit/debit cards replaced. So, forgive and move on.
It didn't really bother me to be honest. It was interesting though that some people do tend to treat people with no money with disdain. A symptom of the world we live in unfortunately.
Davey
@oursonpolaire:My advice has always been to make a donativo of whatever the local private albergues were charging. Most of the people I have spoken with were comfortably-circumstanced Canadians who could easily afford this (people on a really tight budget would not be able to make the plane fare, and I wondered about Canadians who wanted to make a pilgrimage sin dinero and would tell them that they must examine their motivations very carefully). I also suggested that, about once a week, pilgrims could double their donativo as this would help cover those who could not afford much. When speaking with students or those who were on a tight budget, I suggested that they make a point never missing a chance to help out with cleaning and other chores, as there were other ways to contribute than cash.
€8-10 for clean bed and hot shower.
€8-10 for dinner with wine.
€2-5 for breakfast.
@oursonpolaire:
I would be careful about pontificating on what other Canadians can afford. What many of us can afford depends largely on how we budget. Those of us who have never owned a house or a car, who have no entertainment or clothes budget and live on a simple vegetarian diet, can sometimes afford to be generous with charitable donations and still put something aside for pilgrimage, while living on a very modest income.
My pontifications are based on about ten years of workshops and training sessions and I think my comments were characterized by a careful use of terminology. Most of the Canadians I have helped prepare for the Camino have been--- let's call them prosperous (I would use the 85-15 proportion as a rough guide), while I noted that there were those for whom budgets were a much more important issue and that there were other avenues of supporting the donativo albergues. My pontifications above included them as they are an important part of the pilgrim population.
There is still a problem of a few prosperous Canadians leaving little to nothing for their donativo; in my Caminos I encountered about a dozen or so cases of this. The two separate Canadians I spoke with who were doing the Camino sin dinero told me that they felt it was important to provide others with an opportunity to be generous-- one was a corporate lawyer in Toronto! Happily, these people are rare phenomena and generally speaking most pilgrims pull their weight-- this is why local groups of pilgrims providing mentorship to prospective pilgrims are so important.
I have to disagree with your line of reasoning. Taking a few Canadians you came in contact with and generalizing 'most prosperous Canadians don't like to donate generously' does not make sense to me. I have now done many Caminos and came across several Spaniards simply hopping from one donativo to the next. If they don't find a donativo they just keep walking to the next town. Would it be fair for me to then claim 'Spaniards don't like to pay for alberque'? Obviously, people are in all kind of situations and mindsets. There is really no way for us to guess why/how a person would donate. I would not want to make that judgement. People are generally are fair if they can.My pontifications are based on about ten years of workshops and training sessions and I think my comments were characterized by a careful use of terminology. Most of the Canadians I have helped prepare for the Camino have been--- let's call them prosperous (I would use the 85-15 proportion as a rough guide), while I noted that there were those for whom budgets were a much more important issue and that there were other avenues of supporting the donativo albergues. My pontifications above included them as they are an important part of the pilgrim population.
There is still a problem of a few prosperous Canadians leaving little to nothing for their donativo; in my Caminos I encountered about a dozen or so cases of this. The two separate Canadians I spoke with who were doing the Camino sin dinero told me that they felt it was important to provide others with an opportunity to be generous-- one was a corporate lawyer in Toronto! Happily, these people are rare phenomena and generally speaking most pilgrims pull their weight-- this is why local groups of pilgrims providing mentorship to prospective pilgrims are so important.
My pontifications are based on about ten years of workshops and training sessions and I think my comments were characterized by a careful use of terminology. Most of the Canadians I have helped prepare for the Camino have been--- let's call them prosperous (I would use the 85-15 proportion as a rough guide), while I noted that there were those for whom budgets were a much more important issue and that there were other avenues of supporting the donativo albergues. My pontifications above included them as they are an important part of the pilgrim population.
This is a subject that we speak about a lot in my 'neck of the woods,' in the context of offering meditation retreats on a donation basis, or not. It's a tradition with a very long and noble lineage, but now in the west it seems to be fraying at the edges--or at least being called into question. Same as with donativo albergues as opposed to the commercial ones...it's a very similar discussion.Curious about your comments.
The two separate Canadians I spoke with who were doing the Camino sin dinero told me that they felt it was important to provide others with an opportunity to be generous--
I have to disagree with your line of reasoning. Taking a few Canadians you came in contact with and generalizing 'most prosperous Canadians don't like to donate generously' does not make sense to me. I have now done many Caminos and came across several Spaniards simply hopping from one donativo to the next. If they don't find a donativo they just keep walking to the next town. Would it be fair for me to then claim 'Spaniards don't like to pay for alberque'? Obviously, people are in all kind of situations and mindsets. There is really no way for us to guess why/how a person would donate. I would not want to make that judgement. People are generally are fair if they can.
That's what I have been wondering... how does the donativo vs formal payement get treated fiscally?I think the fixed charge "donativo" is probably related to some kind of particular fiscal or regulation category. If an establishment demands publicly a tariff, it will be asked by authorities to comply with certain minimal conditions. btw, the "donativo idea" was discussed in this forum some time ago. See here
imagine ! You are walking and arrive at a "private" albergue that seems to be the house of a private family who open their house for pilgrims on their way to Santiago.
You get a clean bed in a common room, you share with 10 or more others. There are hot showers ,toilets, room to wash and dry your cloths . There is wifi to get in contact with your dear ones.
If you are a couple they provide you a room with double bed and private bathroom.
In the afternoon the lady of the house offers you something to eat and a drink, e.g. a glass of Wine
In the evening the family prepares to all a common diner, soup, main course , wine and some stronger stuff to have a good night sleep. They give you a good feeling, being together with different nationalities, common singing etc.
The next morning they prepare all a good breakfast.
After you want to go for your next stage you find out that your stay was "donativo"
You can put money in a bottle.
Reading this all above being offered ,what should be your appreciation , translated in €?
Why my question? The other day I was hospitalero in the house, mentioned above for some days and I was bewildered finding out that some "pilgrims" sneaky tried to walk away without paying or paid 2 to 5 €! While they told me during a good glass of "free" wine that the day before they stayed here, they stayed in a hotel (30-45€ per night) or asked me to phone to a hotel or B&B to reserve a room (30 to 45€ per night)
The owners of the house offer their services out of a great and warm heart and not because of any commercial purposes. They have offered this for many years, day in day out all year round
Curious about your comments.
Members of this forum who know me, know about who I am talking !
Hmmm. The op is getting a bit "disformed" by your answer.My house is donativo. People ask how much they should give, and I don't give them a figure. I let them decide. The discomfort they feel is them having to measure their morals against their desire to save a few dollars!
I used to get angry when obviously well-off people abused our hospitality. I have since found a lot of comfort in contemplating Grace.
"Grace" means "Unmerited favor." It is the linchpin of Christian theology. It's based on someone giving up everything for you, even though you did nothing to deserve it or earn it. Grace is priceless, it is unconditional. It is what Good is made of. It's getting something for nothing. It's giving something, and expecting nothing in return.
It makes absolutely no sense in a world that's based on transactions, give-and-take, exchanges of money, services, goods, and value. But Grace, and pilgrims discovering grace for themselves, and practicing it with one another -- it's what makes the Camino such a "magical" place. Strangers help out one another. Innkeepers welcome people who have no money. Local people stop you when you're walking the wrong way.
It's sweet, it's humane, it's very very easy to do, once you start out. It is incredibly rewarding, even though rewards are not what it's about.
That's why I tell "my" hospitaleros to let the albergue administrators count the donativos. We cannot judge pilgrims by the amount of money they give us. They cannot "vote with their euros" if we don't know what (of if) they are putting in the box or jar. We trust there will be enough at the end of the week to meet expenses.
Paying your fair share is just the right thing to do. You know what you usually pay, you know what's right and fair. Someone's been good to you. So you be good to them.
You be good to them whether or not the bathroom is spotless or the cuisine is first-class, or there's wine at dinner.
This is a pilgrimage, it's not a holiday cruise. Unless you are a complete clod, you will encounter grace out there. Yu only have to respond with graciousness.
If a house sleeps 1o people and each donates 40 Euro, that would be 400 Euro a night income - which I imagine is a significant sum.
If a house sleeps 1o people and each donates 40 Euro, that would be 400 Euro a night income - which I imagine is a significant sum.
I shall beat them over the head with my Amex...or at least a friend's Amex.
Probably the only use you will have for it. Very much a cash economy along the caminos. Do not expect to use your plastic except at very upmarket places. Lots of cash machines in the towns where you can stock up on euros though.
Hmmm. The op is getting a bit "disformed" by your answer.
What should you do when the reception of an expensive hotel the stage before you, calls you to say that two pilgrims are on their way to your donative albergue and ask to keep two beds free for them.
You lodge them, you feed them and the next morning the pilgrims ask you to phone to reserve an "expensive-let say a 45€ hotel -for the next stop after your place.they do not speak spanish.
In grace they donate you 5€ and two coins.
I would like to see the grin on your face !
You must know by now about which donativo house we are talking all the time so I suggest if you have the chance,stay there and experience the love of the family for the caminho and the pilgrims.I don't really know why people set up their own house as "Donativo". Is the money they receive income or is it alms/charity, modelled after medieval pilgrimage ideas and practices where pilgrims who were better off were expected to support poorer pilgrims? The home owner is hospitable and charitable towards you and at the same time you have an opportunity to be charitable towards other pilgrims?
Generosity is its own reward--and such a joyful thing to do. So hopefully donativo albergues like the one mentioned in the OP will not go the way of the dinosaurs...the world and the Camino would be a much poorer place without them.So how much to give as a donation?
A fellow German pilgrim taught me the “rule of 5”. This means for everything of the following he gives at least 5 Euro: a place to sleep, a shower (yes, there are Pilgerherbergen that have only a wash basin), dinner, breakfast. And if you can afford give more, please do so, sometimes a whole roof needs to replaced!
I think this rule is a good rule of thumb to go by, don't you?
So, that is it, soon more. Buen Camino or, better said, Guten Weg! SY
I think I can guess who this charming family is! This time, NOT on the Camino Francés.imagine ! You are walking and arrive at a "private" albergue that seems to be the house of a private family who open their house for pilgrims on their way to Santiago.
You get a clean bed in a common room, you share with 10 or more others. There are hot showers ,toilets, room to wash and dry your cloths . There is wifi to get in contact with your dear ones.
If you are a couple they provide you a room with double bed and private bathroom.
In the afternoon the lady of the house offers you something to eat and a drink, e.g. a glass of Wine
In the evening the family prepares to all a common diner, soup, main course , wine and some stronger stuff to have a good night sleep. They give you a good feeling, being together with different nationalities, common singing etc.
The next morning they prepare all a good breakfast.
After you want to go for your next stage you find out that your stay was "donativo"
You can put money in a bottle.
Reading this all above being offered ,what should be your appreciation , translated in €?
Why my question? The other day I was hospitalero in the house, mentioned above for some days and I was bewildered finding out that some "pilgrims" sneaky tried to walk away without paying or paid 2 to 5 €! While they told me during a good glass of "free" wine that the day before they stayed here, they stayed in a hotel (30-45€ per night) or asked me to phone to a hotel or B&B to reserve a room (30 to 45€ per night)
The owners of the house offer their services out of a great and warm heart and not because of any commercial purposes. They have offered this for many years, day in day out all year.
Members of this forum who know me, know about who I am talking !
Beds,linen,toilets,hot showers,internetmodem,gas,electricity,I may be wrong - but people have their own reasons for setting their house up as a 'Donativo'. They must be aware that this method is open to a wide-range of interpretation. Yet they choose to continue.
As to what is appropriate, I have never yet walked a camino, so have no experience. I am interested to read the thoughts of those with more experience.
If a house sleeps 1o people and each donates 40 Euro, that would be 400 Euro a night income - which I imagine is a significant sum.
It's all about the 'but on a scale that allows them to continue with their own family life", and clearly this is becoming an issue. I stayed with them 3 weeks ago and you could see hints of the frustration. Will it be an "all or nothing" decision as what they do in the future? Perhaps, and if so pilgrims will lose a lovely rest spot. Pilgrims won't change, only the family can decide what it wants to do.Anemone del Camino@ The owners' answer would be - because they discussed this with us all on the night I stayed - that they prefer to function as a donativo because then it is a choice they have made (because of the their attachment to the spiritual significance of the Camino) to offer shelter and food to pilgrims but on a scale that enables them to continue with their own family life. Thus being a choice, not a business obligation, the welcome and hospitality is a true expression of their love towards pilgrims and is not tainted by being forced into becoming a marketing ploy.
It is not my frustration .I just saw things during our fortnight stay and noticed their concern.Albertinho, I can certainly undertand the frustration, yours and theirs. But I doubt that those walking the Caminos will change for the better as the masses keep arriving. Let me ask you, why not go to a fixed price, or aleast a suggested price, while still opening their home as a donativo for those who clearly need it, based on their jugement of the siuation. They already screen people and suggest some walk on if they suspect they got out of the taxi at the local bar.
Amen, SEB.Finally, I think the message needs to go out to all international pilgrim websites that this is an albergue - one of the most cherished on the CP - which could be under threat because of unpilgrim-like behaviour from folks who see the Camino as a cheap holiday, and donativo albergues as fair game. If future pilgrims wish that wonderful experience of hospitality to be available to them then they need to mobilise to guarantee its survival. Am I being judgemental, you bet I am. Let the word go out, it's a pilgrimage, it's a 'holy' thing (however you choose to define that) it matters how you treat people, and the golden rule is to always do unto other as you would have them do unto you. Taking advantage of people financially is stealing in my book.
I am afraid that I see another problem in suggesting that only those who have stayed in albergues may book in donativos. Because the general rule in albergues is that guests may stay for one night only, anyone who is tired or ill must book a hotel in order to get a day or two off to rest. I did so in Santo Domingo de Silos, because the monastic guesthouse was reserved for men, and I wanted some retreat days. I did so again in Leon, where I took three days to rest and get my clothing washed and mended before moving on. To the lower budget pilgrim staying in a hotel may strain the budget but can be an occasional necessity on a lengthy foot pilgrimage. It does not prove that one is wealthy. But please go on making suggestions as to how we could better encourage one another to show our appreciation for the wonderful donativo albergues on the various caminos.I don't know if this might help but I will suggest it anyway. Acceptance at a donativo could be made conditional upon having stayed the three previous nights in an albergue, the stamps providing the evidence,
Donativo does not require "less."I just don't follow the logic that donativo means less......
Surely it just means the actual amount is at the discretion of the 'guest'?
For example. Homeless people in my hometown 'sell' a magazine in order to earn income and some degree of self respect. The 'suggested' price is $5. I always pay well above that.
All of the amenities that you described (sound heavenly) are an expression of love for the pilgrims. As pilgrims, we would bless the owners from our hearts and with our cash, as we must bless everywhere we go, using our money as an expression of gratitude. It is a transaction as simple as that. The question: "What is a good donation for services when donativo is listed?" That answer is beautiful and a good suggestion. However, donativo means whatever you can pay. A donation of 7E for a delicious meal for someone who cannot afford one, might be the same as 25E for a wealthier person. Blessings to all who walk the camino!imagine ! You are walking and arrive at a "private" albergue that seems to be the house of a private family who open their house for pilgrims on their way to Santiago.
You get a clean bed in a common room, you share with 10 or more others. There are hot showers ,toilets, room to wash and dry your cloths . There is wifi to get in contact with your dear ones.
If you are a couple they provide you a room with double bed and private bathroom.
In the afternoon the lady of the house offers you something to eat and a drink, e.g. a glass of Wine
In the evening the family prepares to all a common diner, soup, main course , wine and some stronger stuff to have a good night sleep. They give you a good feeling, being together with different nationalities, common singing etc.
The next morning they prepare all a good breakfast.
After you want to go for your next stage you find out that your stay was "donativo"
You can put money in a bottle.
Reading this all above being offered ,what should be your appreciation , translated in €?
Why my question? The other day I was hospitalero in the house, mentioned above for some days and I was bewildered finding out that some "pilgrims" sneaky tried to walk away without paying or paid 2 to 5 €! While they told me during a good glass of "free" wine that the day before they stayed here, they stayed in a hotel (30-45€ per night) or asked me to phone to a hotel or B&B to reserve a room (30 to 45€ per night)
The owners of the house offer their services out of a great and warm heart and not because of any commercial purposes. They have offered this for many years, day in day out all year round
Curious about your comments.
Members of this forum who know me, know about who I am talking !
I must admit that when I was walking with my son in 2016 in July/August, I'm sure we often left without saying goodbye to the volunteers. We liked to be out by 5:30 am to avoid (as much as possible) walking in the hottest part of the day. I don't think the volunteers were up for goodbyes then, and they probably appreciated not being woken for them.I stayed just two times in Donativo albergues, and both time I donated 10eu. I noticed that a lot of people are not paying at all and even leaving without saying goodbye to volunteers.
I don't think the volunteers were up for goodbyes then, and they probably appreciated not being woken for them.
I agree with this. If you have means and choose to stay at a donativo, then you shouldn't treat it like a freebie. If you are in the scrimping and saving category of pilgrim and are closer to mendicant, then you shouldn't feel shame for accepting generosity.Sadly, there are still people around who find they can take advantage of others and "play the system". It is incumbent on those of us who can make up for their shoddy behaviour by being more generous
_ |
I stayed at a couple of donativos. At the first one, it was a lovely Irish couple who were the hosts. When I arrived, I asked where I should put the money and they showed me a slot in a box on a wall near the exit door and said I could pay before I leave. I was not used to the donativo and in the morning, we were chatting and they told everyone we should leave by 8 am. I jokingly said I want my money's worth; I am staying to the last minute and then it dawned on me that I had not paid and I was about to forget to pay!!! I think the donativo boxes etc need to be made more obvious for people like me who are not too observant and who are forgetful! I did pay ! It was such a lovely place. I err on the generous side. One day, I will put a 50 in the box. It won't make me any poorer and I will have pleasure in imagining the lovely surprise on the host's face as he/she finds it...imagine ! You are walking and arrive at a "private" albergue that seems to be the house of a private family who open their house for pilgrims on their way to Santiago.
You get a clean bed in a common room, you share with 10 or more others. There are hot showers ,toilets, room to wash and dry your cloths . There is wifi to get in contact with your dear ones.
If you are a couple they provide you a room with double bed and private bathroom.
In the afternoon the lady of the house offers you something to eat and a drink, e.g. a glass of Wine
In the evening the family prepares to all a common diner, soup, main course , wine and some stronger stuff to have a good night sleep. They give you a good feeling, being together with different nationalities, common singing etc.
The next morning they prepare all a good breakfast.
After you want to go for your next stage you find out that your stay was "donativo"
You can put money in a bottle.
Reading this all above being offered ,what should be your appreciation , translated in €?
Why my question? The other day I was hospitalero in the house, mentioned above for some days and I was bewildered finding out that some "pilgrims" sneaky tried to walk away without paying or paid 2 to 5 €! While they told me during a good glass of "free" wine that the day before they stayed here, they stayed in a hotel (30-45€ per night) or asked me to phone to a hotel or B&B to reserve a room (30 to 45€ per night)
The owners of the house offer their services out of a great and warm heart and not because of any commercial purposes. They have offered this for many years, day in day out all year round
Curious about your comments.
Members of this forum who know me, know about who I am talking !
That was a lovely gesture, Danielle, and one I shall try to remember. Of course, many of us are on a budget but if, nearing the end of our Camino, we find that we're up in the money area we could always leave an extra tip behind. It's a small price to pay for cheering up another person who wouldn't be expecting it.I stayed at a couple of donativos. At the first one, it was a lovely Irish couple who were the hosts. When I arrived, I asked where I should put the money and they showed me a slot in a box on a wall near the exit door and said I could pay before I leave. I was not used to the donativo and in the morning, we were chatting and they told everyone we should leave by 8 am. I jokingly said I want my money's worth; I am staying to the last minute and then it dawned on me that I had not paid and I was about to forget to pay!!! I think the donativo boxes etc need to be made more obvious for people like me who are not too observant and who are forgetful! I did pay ! It was such a lovely place. I err on the generous side. One day, I will put a 50 in the box. It won't make me any poorer and I will have pleasure in imagining the lovely surprise on the host's face as he/she finds it...
imagine ! You are walking and arrive at a "private" albergue that seems to be the house of a private family who open their house for pilgrims on their way to Santiago.
You get a clean bed in a common room, you share with 10 or more others. There are hot showers ,toilets, room to wash and dry your cloths . There is wifi to get in contact with your dear ones.
If you are a couple they provide you a room with double bed and private bathroom.
In the afternoon the lady of the house offers you something to eat and a drink, e.g. a glass of Wine
In the evening the family prepares to all a common diner, soup, main course , wine and some stronger stuff to have a good night sleep. They give you a good feeling, being together with different nationalities, common singing etc.
The next morning they prepare all a good breakfast.
After you want to go for your next stage you find out that your stay was "donativo"
You can put money in a bottle.
Reading this all above being offered ,what should be your appreciation , translated in €?
Why my question? The other day I was hospitalero in the house, mentioned above for some days and I was bewildered finding out that some "pilgrims" sneaky tried to walk away without paying or paid 2 to 5 €! While they told me during a good glass of "free" wine that the day before they stayed here, they stayed in a hotel (30-45€ per night) or asked me to phone to a hotel or B&B to reserve a room (30 to 45€ per night)
The owners of the house offer their services out of a great and warm heart and not because of any commercial purposes. They have offered this for many years, day in day out all year round
Curious about your comments.
Members of this forum who know me, know about who I am talking !
In my ideal world, there would be no "donativo default". Each pilgrim would give according to what they were able to give and what they wanted to give, informed by the knowledge that their contribution is what pays for any hospitality given to future pilgrims and the spirit of support for fellow pilgrims that is so common in the pilgrim community when called upon.I would suggest €10 for a bed, €11 for an evening meal and €3.50 for a breakfast is about average now. So maybe the donativo default should be about €25 a night? Any thoughts?
As to appearing in affording expensive tec gear. You be surprised what you can find in small adds thrift shops and clearing sales.Shoes backpack and rain gear being the most costly items I bought for 35 Euros. Yes all new. My Hookas for 5 my Deuter backpack new in a crockery store of all places for 10 and my rain gear thrift shop 3 and the jacket unpopular green with year end clearance sales for 17.
I read Gottfried Keller’s novel Kleider machen Leute.
Good read.
Well said! That is how it has historically been....the spirit of the camino and the value of not judging people.Some of you may not be aware, but at Federation donativo albergues we are forbidden to suggest a sum. We are only to indicate where the donation box or slot is located. We are allowed to say that everything a pilgrim receives ( meal, bed, heat, etc) is due to the donations of others who came before. We don't usually know how much a pilgrim has left and that is the way it is supposed to be at many locations. We give the same hospitality if you give something or nothing.
Some of you may not be aware, but at Federation donativo albergues we are forbidden to suggest a sum. We are only to indicate where the donation box or slot is located. We are allowed to say that everything a pilgrim receives ( meal, bed, heat, etc) is due to the donations of others who came before. We don't usually know how much a pilgrim has left and that is the way it is supposed to be at many locations. We give the same hospitality if you give something or nothing.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?