How safe is it to begin the day before sunrise from SJPP?

[DanielaR]

Hi all,

I begin walking on 10/16 from SJPP and I noticed that sunrise is not until after 8am. I would like to begin walking earlier since it is a long day. I will be walking alone that morning and I was wondering what time most people begin their day and how safe it is to begin that first day in the dark. Is it okay to begin at 6:30? Thanks.

 

[C clearly]

The first couple of hours to Orisson are on a road. So the "dangers" would be in taking a wrong turn and getting on the wrong road, and not being visible to drivers.

I would think that it would be a bad idea in foggy or rainy weather, but in fine weather it could be OK as long as you have some hi-vis reflective clothing.

As I recall, in October, most people were out and about by 7 or 7:30, so 6:30 would not be unusual. Play it by ear - you can always slow down or hurry up your breakfast depending on what you see others doing.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Fairly early along the way the road splits--usually we say into two , one to Napoleon and one into valcarlos. We know from recent pilgrim experience it splits into a third --for horses. I wouldn't want to miss the right turn walking alone in the dark. If you think it will get dark before you finish could you stop at Orison or valcarlos ?

 

[SYates]

If the weather is fine (no fog/rain etc), you concentrate, look at the map the pilgrims office gives you and carry a light of some sort - you should be fine. On the other hand there is really no rush, especially if you stay at Orisson or Valcarlos (two different routes!). Buen Camino, SY

 

[Kent Davis]

I left at 6:15 about three weeks ago and it did not get light until almost 7:45. As mentioned above, it's a bit dodgy as you have cars, limited walking space and you can go the wrong way. What made it work for me is I found someone else leaving at that time and we had a light, so we worked together paying attention. A head lamp light would have been perfect.

 

[JeepsNRoses]

Saw these shoe lights on Shark Tank http://nightrunner270.com

They are pricey, but bright lights and reviewers say they don't notice them even when running. I emailed the inventor to ask about charging and battery life & will edit the post when he responds.

 

[Felipe]

I left SJPP around 6:15, too. No problem at all. After crossing the old bridge, you basically go straight (and up, up, up...). It was the first week of October, and even in this early hour, there were other pilgrims before and after me. After a while, the morning fog over the valley made for very nice pics.
You can even study the way in Google Maps, until the Camino leaves the paved road, before the Bentartea pass. But as I said, it is no problem. Maybe with serious bad weather...but in these cases, the pilgrim's bureau will advise not to walk this way.

 

[dougfitz]

I have successfully managed to get lost leaving SJPP on the Valcarlos route both times I have walked the Camino Frances, both times in good light. I cannot speak for the Napolean route, but my view is that it takes some care until you have left the town behind.

 

[C clearly]

I have successfully managed to get lost leaving SJPP

Good job, Doug! That's why I checked out the exit routes on a reconnaissance the day before. (No rushing to SJPP and off onto the camino for me!)

 

[Hiawatha]

In past situations when groups of us needed to travel in the dark on roads we adopted a simple practice . Head torches used by many often have a flashing mode , either fast or slow and sometimes variable . The last member simply puts theirs on backwards facing traffic approaching from the rear . This at least gives the driver some warning . If the group is large then every third or fourth member does the same angling them to alternate sides giving some scale to the group .
If travelling alone then a cheaper one you can dispose of or donate might work for those first few hours . In any case and at the very least, a reflective vest tied to the outside rear of your pack will make you stick out like a Christmas tree .

 

[naplesdon]

Sunrise and early light are two different things. I think shortly after 7:00 you will be able to see you hand ahead of foot.

 

[Felipe]

In past situations when groups of us needed to travel in the dark on roads we adopted a simple practice .

Sensible advice. But actually there is a very scarce traffic on this route, and after a couples of miles it almost disappear. Drivers are local people that seem used to share the road with the long queue of pilgrims.
The alternative or lower road has a one hour walk along a paved road, after Valcarlos, with some truck traffic. I did not feel it as particularly dangerous, but it requires some precaution.

 

[Purple Backpack]

"...how safe it is to begin that first day in the dark..."

I'll sometimes take a quick after dinner walk and check the beginning of the next day's route. A bit OCD, I know, but it saves time in the morning to know which way to head out. For SJPDP, I walked up a couple of miles after arriving, just to
de-jetlag, get a feel for it and make sure I knew the right way to go.

It felt quite a bit different with a full pack the next day, though...

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

travelling alone then a cheaper one you can dispose of or donate might work for those first few hours . In any case and at the very least, a reflective vest tied to the outside rear of your pack will make you stick out like a Christmas tree .

there are some lightweight just-in-case items you can get at sports/running stores or online. Tiny clip on lights that flash, and reflective waist/wrist/ankle straps. Walking in dark or fog/rain I put day glo yellow pack cover on, reflective waist belt across my pack, bands on outside wrist/ankle, and lights on pack and outside wrist/ankle.

Edit : maybe over cautious but sometimes drivers are t familiar with the road either. I didn't want to be the person I swear at when driving on some dark, rainy, winding road I've never used before

 

[Hiawatha]

'' sometimes drivers aren't familiar with the road either''
Too true , I saw this the other day , it is a classic example of how the self absorbed driver is oblivious to all that surrounds them
I wonder how long she would last in a hostile environment ?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=1cbb427c386e" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[JeepsNRoses]

there are some lightweight just-in-case items you can get at sports/running stores or online. Tiny clip on lights that flash, and reflective waist/wrist/ankle straps. Walking in dark or fog/rain I put day glo yellow pack cover on, reflective waist belt across my pack, bands on outside wrist/ankle, and lights on pack and outside wrist/ankle.

Edit : maybe over cautious but sometimes drivers are t familiar with the road either. I didn't want to be the person I swear at when driving on some dark, rainy, winding road I've never used before

Nightrunner270.com sells cool looking shoe laces lights. I saw these on TV recently & thought they would be more comfortable than a headlamp.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Nightrunner270.com sells cool looking shoe laces lights. I saw these on TV recently & thought they would be more comfortable than a headlamp.

I looked at the video and it looked interesting, 'though I'm not sure if I would find the white light distracting at my feet...but I didn't use a headlight either. I had a small flashlight with filters for looking at signs, or in my pack, and tried to avoid walking in the dark (three times in 90 days, one was at the end of the day). If I were doing a lot of night walking I'd want to see around me, not just my feet, though it would help others see me I suppose...those might be better for running on a road or trail that's familiar...but I could be wrong (and usually am). If someone uses them on the Camino I'd be interested in hearing how they worked out

 

[kayagee66]

I've walked from St Jean going past Orisson twice. It should be no problem at all. If you have time the day before take a 10 minute walk following your next day's path, just to familiarise yourself with it.
You are very unlikely to be on your own, but don't blindly follow the person in front, they may not be going where you want to go.

 

[marbuck]

Never Ever!!! Blindly follow the person in front of you, we have got lost doing just that. Then blamed each other.
Do a recce the night before.

 

[trecile]

And don't forget to always walk on the left side facing oncoming traffic.
That said, I think that the biggest danger of starting so early is missing some beautiful sights.

 

[dougfitz]

I think that the biggest danger of starting so early is missing some beautiful sights.

That's true, but if you take the time to look back every so often, and the conditions are right, you will get the wonders of the sunrise.

 

[KinkyOne]

I have successfully managed to get lost leaving SJPP on the Valcarlos route both times I have walked the Camino Frances, both times in good light. I cannot speak for the Napolean route, but my view is that it takes some care until you have left the town behind.

Slightly offtopic maybe since OP question is about Napoleon route but I remember walking Valcarlos route in 2009 two peregrinas were "going back" on the route soon after SJPdP. They asked if this is the route to Valcarlos and when I explained it's in the other direction they wouldn't believe me so they went back to SJPdP

 

[Felipe]

The only and very isolated reports I have read of pilgrims getting lost in this stage were in the Biakorri Virgin and the bifurcation to Arneguy.
I agree that blindly following the guys in front of you is not a good idea. But when every people in sight is going in the same direction, that should mean something....anyway, I found the signposting discreet and good, as it happens in France.
Most problems in the Napoleon route had apparently come from serious bad weather -and recklessness.
Concerning the Valcarlos way, I found the pilgrim's bureu map confusing after turning right by Chemin de Mayorga. After a short walk you have to turn left in the main paved road to Arneguy, but is was not clear to me where. I actually, here took a local road called (as I see it now) Cihecurutchemendy . After ten minutes I felt it was not the right way, and turned back to the junction, then to the main road.

 

[dougfitz]

Slightly offtopic maybe since OP question is about Napoleon route

I think people have inferred that, but it isn't clear from the original post that this is that case

 

[Felipe]

Indeed. Problem is, in the post you can see a yellow "X", which usually means "not this way", and the map was not clear.
I turned left (my logic was that the righ way should be up, not down). There is a signpost that says "route de Cihé".
As you correctly say, we have to walk straight and in a very short distance we meet the main paved road.
Anyway, this route of Cihé or Cihecurutchemendy eventually joins the main road. But the signposting could be clearer.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

A red x might be a better color choice, or a yellow arrow with a red circle/Slash. I can see part of the confusion if you are just getting started following arrows

 

[Penny Kingma]

Also roads are narrow and vehicles move quickly. I was clipped by a white little delivery vehicle. On that last strip of road going to Orrison. I was off the road on a narrow shoulder...a fence prevented me from moving further. The driver looked right at me....as he approached....it was like slow motion...he didn't even slow down or stop after the clip. I haven't mentioned it as I didn't want to instill fear....but when I read about the early departure I felt the need. It may be 8kms...but they aren't an easy 8. This picture was taken a week after the clip occurred. I had told family and fellow pilgrims that it occurred after a fall. It was from the mirror. I had put my arms up in kind of a defensive move. Just be careful is all....by the way it happened in daylight.

 

[Hiawatha]

I can't like your post Penny mainly because it could have been so much worse , but I can thank you for being brave enough to make it .
This sort of thing happens in the suburbs at home as well , I very nearly lost my head to a wing mirror from a bus in Collins st . Melbourne .

 

[Penny Kingma]

I can't like your post Penny mainly because it could have been so much worse , but I can thank you for being brave enough to make it .
This sort of thing happens in the suburbs at home as well , I very nearly lost my head to a wing mirror from a bus in Collins st . Melbourne .

Hi Charles
I know accidents can happen anywhere...a little rattling on my first day...and he was the only vehicle on the road at the time...it was odd.

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

I begin walking on 10/16 from SJPP and I noticed that sunrise is not until after 8am. I would like to begin walking earlier since it is a long day. I will be walking alone that morning and I was wondering what time most people begin their day and how safe it is to begin that first day in the dark. Is it okay to begin at 6:30? Thanks.

To answer you question in one word: yes. It is okay, just like 7:00, 7:30, 8:00, ......

Some people even start walking after 9:00 to get to Roncevalles (I did and I'm not a fast walker), some after 3:00pm to get to Orisson. Some even want to leave at 3:00am...
What most people do is to start super-early because they are super-excited to start/super-dreading that stage: starting the adventure of a Camino and making a mountain out of the mountain do make anyone want to leave early... However, the questions are: is what most people do the wisest thing to do yourself and is letting emotions lead your steps the wisest thing to do? The answers are yours and they're alright anyways.

Here are some more thoughts to feed on:
- what is pushing you to start earlier? Fear not to have time to do the stage or joyful wish to walk by night?
- even with shorter days, there is enough time to do the stage
- night is another world we're not used to "live in"... / night outside a city is even less in our customs...
- ... traveling by night outside a city means walking through unknown places in an environment we're not used to. How do you feel about that? May be an amazing experience as much as a bad one...
- Anyways, traveling/walking by night requires more awareness and some gears. Have these in store? Stay alert and don't forget some light
- People who live and work with pilgrim in SJPdP (and love the Camino/think of pilgrims as people and not business-opportunities) all advise to start with daylight, to enjoy the stage and its beauty
- They also all regret to see everyone rushing out on the Camino so early...

Whatever your time, enjoy the stage!
Buen Camino!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Leaving SJPP at 6:30? No coffee, no croissant, no way!

With sunrise at 8:20 and sunset at 19:19 you have 11 hours of daylight.
The weather forecast is mixed sun/cloudy with a max temperature of 25 which sounds to me like a perfect day for a walk.
Why would anybody want to walk the first two hours in gloom and darkness and miss out on all those views?

 

[Donna-Leah Warren]

Hi all,

I begin walking on 10/16 from SJPP and I noticed that sunrise is not until after 8am. I would like to begin walking earlier since it is a long day. I will be walking alone that morning and I was wondering what time most people begin their day and how safe it is to begin that first day in the dark. Is it okay to begin at 6:30? Thanks.

We started at 6 AM every morning...word to the wise, when you get to where you will spend the night do a short walk to see how to get out of town in the morning...that was the hardest trying to find your way out in the dark.

 

[Flem]

Hi all,

I begin walking on 10/16 from SJPP and I noticed that sunrise is not until after 8am. I would like to begin walking earlier since it is a long day. I will be walking alone that morning and I was wondering what time most people begin their day and how safe it is to begin that first day in the dark. Is it okay to begin at 6:30? Thanks.

Starting before sunrice you have to be carefull not missing the arrowes.
Coming over the bridge out of Zibiri and turn right and right again. I missed the arrow in the dark and fin my self fare out of the track.
Cost me 8 km detour - up hill in the middle of nowhere.
On the ot3her hand no worry mate.

 

[GRR]

What day is the day before sunrise?

Seriously, it's no more unsafe than walking anywhere in the dark. The downside for me is that you can't get any breakfast anywhere in St. John (or coffee for that matter) that early. I need my coffee! I had to beg some from an alburgue that I passed heading out of town. They gave it to me in a bowl.

Just take normal walking in the dark precautions. Watch for the split shortly down the road to make sure you are taking the path you want to walk.

 

[Thornley]

you can't get any breakfast anywhere in St. John

Correct 1000%

 

[AnnabelP]

Take your time and relax! Wait for the light, stop at Orisson, and enjoy the afternoon, evening meal and next day even more! It's not a race, slow down from the beginning.

Buen Camino!

 

[DanielaR]

Thanks, everyone. I ended up leaving at 8:15 and there was lots of time to get to Roncesvalles while it was still light. I did meet up with someone who left around 6am and made the wrong turn. Luckily, several miles down the road, a local ran out of his house to turn the young man around. He did not have food since he left SJPP too early--but luckily, another peregrino had extra food for him and gave him a sandwich.

I must be a little map challenged, but I almost made a wrong turn at the first fork out of SJPP, but luckily two peregrinos walked up behind me and we all figured out that we had to go right at the first fork, and then left at the second fork to take the Napoleon Route. We left 10/16 and Orrison was already closed for the season. Had the best day ever! Thanks again for your replies. Buen Camino!

 

[Thornley]

Thanks, everyone. I ended up leaving at 8:15 and there was lots of time to get to Roncesvalles while it was still light. I did meet up with someone who left around 6am and made the wrong turn. Luckily, several miles down the road, a local ran out of his house to turn the young man around. He did not have food since he left SJPP too early--but luckily, another peregrino had extra food for him and gave him a sandwich.

I must be a little map challenged, but I almost made a wrong turn at the first fork out of SJPP, but luckily two peregrinos walked up behind me and we all figured out that we had to go right at the first fork, and then left at the second fork to take the Napoleon Route. We left 10/16 and Orrison was already closed for the season. Had the best day ever! Thanks again for your replies. Buen Camino!

Thank you for the update Daniela , it is pretty rare on the forum.
Well done