BeatriceKarjalainen
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Finished: See post signature.
Doing: C. Levante
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Haha, I like your sense of humour. It does get frustrating sometimes when people switch from lending on their own experiences - to giving advice. I just take it all in stride, I plan on walking my own Camino - at my own pace. Whatever that pace is that day. Buen Camino Beatrice (don't be such a grump - lol)'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.
How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.
So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?
*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?
*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?
*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?
*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?
* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?
Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.
I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?
I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!Every single person on the forum have their own opinion on all matters, rucksacks, boots, sleeping bags, how far to walk, how fast to walk, how slow to walk etc, that's what makes it a forum and there is no point in getting upset if others have differing opinions. I think one should always add IMO or in my opinion when giving advice rather than giving advice as the definitive answer, IMO.
As Doug said it would be a shame to see you go and I hope you don't. Your experience at walking at your pace is invaluable to like minded pilgrims. When I was younger I was a fast and long walker but alas no more, I envy your experience and energy and I can empathise with your frustration and I think people should answer the OP's question first and then give their advice or opinion afterwards IMO.I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!
Beatrice: the interesting thing is that what is viewed as "wrong" seems to change over time. When I first walked the camino over 10 years ago it was deemed wrong to carry any electronic device including a phone, wrong to step on a bus or other transport, wrong to skip a section, wrong if you didn't start in SJPDP, wrong if you didn't join pilgrims in albergues and stayed in hotels, wrong if you didn't carry your own backpack, etc. You weren't considered a true pilgrim if you did any of these things. Let's hope that we all can learn to avoid the word "wrong" and stick to making suggestions that can be used or not.I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!
I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!
I have seen that there is a lot of asphalt and I know that it could be really hard for the legs (remembering my shins splits from CF). I have walked a lot on asphalt here at home in my camino sandals (but most of the time with a lighter backpack or with just the camera). My practise walks are usually 20-30 km and I know that as soon as I put on the backpack as well the speed will go down and the pressure on the feet will be harder. On asphalt you need to stop more often, take of the shoes and let the blood get back into the feet, looking out for blisters under the foot. Thanks for the warning!Good luck on your Camino, If I had to give any advice it would be watch out for the asphalt, I was super fit when I walked in 2011, ready for any 30km+ days and the hot temps around 40. It was the asphalt that took it out of my shins. So please keep posting, there is people who look on the forum who want to do what you are doing but might might feel they have to do it a 'right'way, only you know what is right for you AND beware of the asphalt on the CP
Buen Camino
I think there are very few on this forum who intend to say "you didn't do it the right way." A lot of people on the forum, and on the Camino, are coming from a position of insecurity or uncertainty about their physical ability to walk the camino. Much of the "go slow" advice is meant to give them/us encouragement. Maybe that approach has been overdone at times!They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way".
Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum. You have so much experience to pass on to other, newer members. I've got a nasty suspicion it was my comment which made you think that. Forgive me. If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.
Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum……... If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...
You yourself just answered the question about how fast. For inexperienced untrained people its usually pretty slow and to be good pilgrims they try to force themselves to walk faster/further and get shin splits (not pointing a finger at you, not at all), tendonitis, knee problems, deep blisters, loose toe nails, and heaven knows what that sh!t was that I saw on somebody's legs. Which makes them take days off or slow down and lag behind the schedule that was set with a view of a booked flight. Which in turn makes them take taxis and boost the Spanish economy more than they planned.my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to
I was just fed up with the "wrong" comments. My shin splits was due to walking on the left side of the road all the time (as you should) and the small roads in Spain seems to lean more in the roadside than at home in Sweden. My left leg is shorter than my right so the balance in the lower leg got totally off. I had learned that for my second camino and walked a little closer to the middle. Had to look out for cars a little bit more. I got the same problem on a long trail hike in Sweden when I had to walk 10 km on a leaning trail around a mountain. The most important thing is to learn from earlier mistakes (and share so others might avoid them as well).You yourself just answered the question about how fast. For inexperienced untrained people its usually pretty slow and to be good pilgrims they try to force themselves to walk faster/further and get shin splits (not pointing a finger at you, not at all), tendonitis, knee problems, deep blisters, loose toe nails, and heaven knows what that sh!t was that I saw on somebody's legs. Which makes them take days off or slow down and lag behind the schedule that was set with a view of a booked flight. Which in turn makes them take taxis and boost the Spanish economy more than they planned.
As for myself, I never knew what the fast walkers do during their day, your post really and honestly did teach me something new.
Post edited by Moderator.
Don't go, Beatrice. Your advice is valued.'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.
How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.
So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?
*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?
*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?
*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?
*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?
* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?
Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.
I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?
Thank you! We need to keep the variety of opinions and approaches on the forum, including yours and @BeatriceKarjalainen 's.His messages changed my mind.
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That was not me it was @koknesis who got that treatment.Beatrice, this person who pm'd you was totally unfair, to have been telling you to leave. ( Was it leave this forum or leave for or from a camino?). I'm hoping you stay in spite of this incident. And if ever I step over the line just let me know. We all have our blind spots and I wouldn't want to inadvertently step on someone's toes or worse.
They probably don't think it refers to them!So no answer to my questions in the OP. Where are all the "you must do it this way" now when I actually ask for their rules ;-)
Haha, exactly !! I was feeling the same way BeatriceKarjalain, after posting (what I thought) was a simple question and basically being told/admonished I wasn't taking the right approach or doing it the right way. I don't mind people giving advice but I would much prefer an answer/suggestion to the actual question I pose as opposed to being told how I am doing something else wrong.They probably don't think it refers to them!
So no answer to my questions in the OP. Where are all the "you must do it this way" now when I actually ask for their rules ;-)
Puh! I can walk 100 km in 16 h but hmm will I squeeze in that between the dawn and sunset rule hmmmm.... back to the calculator I might need to speed up a little ;-)Well, you asked, BK! I thought I would have some fun with it because, yes, there do seem to be a lot of "rules" out there...(Stick around, btw, you'd be terribly missed otherwise.)
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do?
No more than 100, if you are walking. Super-heroes like the Flash and Superman are, of course, exempt from the rule.
Is there also a minimum?
Considering that one can take rest days, the logical answer is zero.
What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance?
Then don’t walk further than 100 km. (Duh!)
taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?
Any of the above or all of the above. Just make sure to suffer while you are doing them.
*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at?
10 km/hr. As determined by the study in this link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9143432) I took the max speed for 20 year-old males and calculated from there. Hey, if you cannot take your rules from PubMed on Internet, where are you going to get them? (Again, superheroes are exempt.)
Is there a minimum speed as well?
Once we established that “zero” days are okay, then zero speed is logically acceptable.
Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?
Oh, “with stops”, because otherwise zero speed and zero distance days are not logically possible since they are full stops.
*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?
You must make at least one. The lodging at the end of the day makes the most sense for it. Any extra stops one desires to make are okay as long as one remembers to make the last one as well.
*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?
To be a “proper” stop, one must achieve a state of zero forward progress. Anything else is a “California Roll”, an offense which can get a driver in the States a traffic ticket.
*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?
Within two hours either side of local “dawn” for mornings, the same time span either side of official local “sunset” for evening. Failure to observe these rules will have you walking at night. Choosing to walk at night is okay, I think, but those rules have not been made available to me.
* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?
I have virtually exhausted my knowledge at this time, you will have to wait on the arrival of the more knowledgeable.
What I can tell you is that the number of “Buen Camino” utterances per day has no limit. If you do not see any pilgrims for the day, make up an imaginary friend to be the cheerful recipient. If, after an hour or so, they stop being cheerful at your greeting, it would be good to verify that they are, in fact, "imaginary".
I hope that clears things up!
B
I had minimum on my back just water, camera and rain clothes. And the time was 16 h 8 minutes. It was on roads 50 % gravel and 50 % asphalt and fairly flat. When i did Fjällräven Classic 110 km on the Kings trail it took me 28:48 hours but with 12 kilo on my back and about 6 h stops in total for food and some rest.You walked 100km in 16 hours? I take my hat off to you - it took me 27!
'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.
How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.
So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?
*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?
*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?
*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?
*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?
* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?
Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.
I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the differencer o. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?
You could do it more slowly on one of the northern pilgrimage routes! I still want to walk the St Olavsleden, but I think I will be thinking about doing it over a month or so rather than doing it in a week.Puh! I can walk 100 km in 16 h but hmm will I squeeze in that between the dawn and sunset rule hmmmm.... back to the calculator I might need to speed up a little ;-)
I usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.Hecate105...in the spirit of this thread - well done, you!
And just quietly, Beatrice, you are a machine!! Also, I've been thinking - if you are not a far or fast walker maybe you cannot imagine that it could be a positive experience because you project your own experience onto the situation. Perhaps what *you* have to offer this community is that voice that says "for some of us, 35km a day can make a wonderful camino" - and to be a living example of the fact. Maybe we could have a personal mission to change the meaning of "make sure you smell the roses" from "this means you must walk no further than 25km in a day" to "discover what it means for you to be able to smell the roses - if you want to". I get hay fever so I actually prefer not to;-)
So what is your different reasons? Why can't it be the same?I have met people who do 50km a day without a second thought. But they don't do it for the same reasns I do. And their reasons are just as valid as mine. They probably think I am not pushing myself enough to learn about myself, my limits.
A Camino as a spiritual, once in a lifetime experience may be better suited to a slower pace, but for the repeat offenders, there may be ither ways to reach that spirituality, that special experience, or the simple weight oss challenge.
While I irk when I read that suburban Mrs Smith only has X numbers of days "to do thé Camino" I do believe that for some other people 20-25K is just not in their nature.
St:Olaf Way is on my to-do-list. I'm actually right now just a few km away from the Swedish starting point in Selånger. My mother in law is living in the priest house in Hässjö and people from the parish here is involved in the St:Olaf Way. They talk about it a lot.You could do it more slowly on one of the northern pilgrimage routes! I still want to walk the St Olavsleden, but I think I will be thinking about doing it over a month or so rather than doing it in a week.
I started to do some competitive walking quite late in life, and have some appreciation of the effort involved in walking ultra-marathon distances day after day. I think your walking performances are a credit, and I look forward to you streaming past me on some future pilgrimage.
Euh??? I'm you're side!So what is your different reasons? Why can't it be the same?
But what is "a slower pace". Slower than you use to walk? Shorter than you use to walk? If you normally run at home it could feel veeeery slow to walk 10 k in over 60 minutes. If you normally power walk at home 20 km i 4 hours can feel like for ever on the camino. So does slow mean slower than others, never pass another person. Can slow mean the state when your thoughts stops and you can be in the moment, let the body do it's work and set the mind free? For some there is actually a level where you loose the balance (for me it is under 4.5 km/h on flat ground) or starting to get pain because taking for instance shorter steps or "hanging" on each step for a longer time than usually stresses the muscles and joints, just as much as if someone who is used to walk slowly starts to run or power walk. For me the spiritual part is up in my head, not in my feet.
The Primitiv being too difficult for anyone is either an urban legend or, as I see it, a lie from Camino Snobs who want to toot their own horns by limitng the number of people from doing what they will do and brag about. Perhaps ypu used to have to walk 99km between stays, but not these days.Researching the Camino I came across a book called 'Walk Your Own Walk'. I didn't read the book but the phrase stuck with me and opinions on this forum have never swayed me from it. But when we reached Oviedo to start the Primitivo we did meet pilgrims that expressed their opinion that the Primitivo would be too difficult for me. That threw me momentarily, but then I reminded myself that I had come to 'walk my own walk'. To reach Santiago in the 13 days I had I found I could not walk every step of the way, but what I did was an experience of a life time anyway. Much of my planning was based on this website and, BeatriceK., I read your posts as well as the posts of the 'plodders.' They were all beneficial.
I was curious about the statement that the 50k people isn't doing it for the same reason as you do it. How do you know, why should they think that you are not pushing your self? Have they told you that the reason why they do 50 k is to test and push their limits? Where is the limit for not pushing your self? Can the pushing behind comfort limits be a spiritual thing it self? I met a man that walked 40 k a day, way over his comfort zone, he struggled and he did it for religious reasons, he wanted to feel the pain, the pain Jesus might had carrying the cross, the people when they walked through Egypt and he dedicated that pain to a loved one he had lost or to St. James. That was his camino and I think that was quite spiritual for him. We walked together here and there, his days were often a couple of hours longer than mine.Euh??? I'm you're side!
Of course I can see that my experience can be beneficial but what I feel that some people always have to point out that it is wrong. What if I should start to write answers to every one doing it slower than me and talk about the booooring hours in small hamlet with nothing to do from noon to bed time or the horror of having to pass hords of snail-walkers (with clicking sticks) and so on... that would be equivalent to the types of answers you get about doing it "fast". I think people would get quite upset. But I know that others love those quiet hours and walking in a huge group with others and that is how they want to do it but just don't tell me that I have to do it as well. I hate to pass people on the camino as I can feel their eyes in my back, I can here the comments about "this is not a race" behind me (and yes I have had my share of those on the camino). And it would be enough to have it there. I thought we could skip that kind of comments in the forum.Researching the Camino I came across a book called 'Walk Your Own Walk'. I didn't read the book but the phrase stuck with me and opinions on this forum have never swayed me from it. But when we reached Oviedo to start the Primitivo we did meet pilgrims that expressed their opinion that the Primitivo would be too difficult for me. That threw me momentarily, but then I reminded myself that I had come to 'walk my own walk'. To reach Santiago in the 13 days I had I found I could not walk every step of the way, but what I did was an experience of a life time anyway. Much of my planning was based on this website and, BeatriceK., I read your posts as well as the posts of the 'plodders.' They were all beneficial.
Yes yours was one of them so give my questions a go. So we know how to do it the "proper way".Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum. You have so much experience to pass on to other, newer members. I've got a nasty suspicion it was my comment which made you think that. Forgive me. If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...
Beatrice - there is no "proper" way.Yes yours was one of them so give my questions a go. So we know how to do it the "proper way".
Lovely PhotosI usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.
There are so many interesting objects to practise photography on and to give me the pleasure to be able to relive the trip once more. I don't need to look at the ground when walking, my feet can handle that part and my eyes can be used for see the small things. A spiders web, a bug, a snail, a lovely roof and the lovely pattern on the ground.
I see all this things even thou, when my feet are moving , I walk fast. Long distances just mean that I can see more in one day. Of course walking slow means that I might be able to look at them for a longer period at time when on the move. But I stop all the time for the "little things". I observe them, put them in the right perspective, the right light, the right mood. I don't take a point and shoot photo to be able to be able to continue faster and having the memory recorded i a "will do photo" Walking fast mean that I can take my time to smell the roses and taking photos or talking to a local without feeling the stress of missing to be first in line at the albergue. Walking far each day is just because I am a machine who can just walk walk and walk and that is why my brain relaxes from the stress at work, from home and stops thinking of all the "must" in life, when I walk it is just me and the road (and all the interesting things to see around the next corner or road bend).
I wish sometimes that I had written my CF blog in English, that might have helped to get some people to understand that walking fast doesn't have to be the same as "rushing by and missing everything". Well I did miss some churches, I missed some festivals as I passed through the town to early in the morning but so did the slow walkers who had fallen 1 days behind me etc etc...
What pack are you wearing Jim.I don't recall seeing you or your camera while I was walking, but that fourth photo was a candid shot of me doing the Camino.
My wife and I were passed by several hundred, perhaps thousands of other pilgrims. We could count the number we passed ourselves on the fingers of our hands -- and most of them were sitting down resting on a bench or under a tree.
30 microlitre Osprey Escargot....What pack are you wearing Jim.
Started in August 15 in SJPdP and was in SdC 23 days later. I came to the meseta August 22 according to my blog. Do you remember where? I was wearing a beige Macabi skirt. If in the morning long if later in the day hooked up in the sides.Beatrice, I just see now that you were on the Camino Francés in 2013. May I ask when were you there? We were passed by a lady on the meseta who was walking so fast we wondered if we were going in reverse. She left us in her dust. I wonder if it was you.
I can walk 16km in 100 hours. With rest stops, of course.I had minimum on my back just water, camera and rain clothes. And the time was 16 h 8 minutes. It was on roads 50 % gravel and 50 % asphalt and fairly flat. When i did Fjällräven Classic 110 km on the Kings trail it took me 28:48 hours but with 12 kilo on my back and about 6 h stops in total for food and some rest.
Loooong rest stops.I can walk 16km in 100 hours. With rest stops, of course.
It is a shame that you need to think of what to write here regarding things like that.Hi Beatrice. I hope you stay. I love your photos. I know what you mean.
I would never share how I often listen to "nonspiritual" music while I walk, as I don't want to hear the feedback.
Aaaw, Beatrice, it wasn't you who blew by us on the meseta; we were there in late April. That's too bad, as it would have been fun to claim that I'd had a brief encounter with Camino royalty! The meseta pictures in your blog are fabulous, and evoke wonderful memories for me. I agree with the others - please don't leave.Started in August 15 in SJPdP and was in SdC 23 days later. I came to the meseta August 22 according to my blog. Do you remember where? I was wearing a beige Macabi skirt. If in the morning long if later in the day hooked up in the sides.
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://beastankar.blogspot.se/2013/08/camino2013-dag-10-etapp-10-rabe-de-las.html&edit-text=&act=url
There have been many enjoyable posts on music, of all types, that people like to listen to on the camino.I would never share how I often listen to "nonspiritual" music while I walk, as I don't want to hear the feedback.
We should think about everything we write about on the internet for the world to read.It is a shame that you need to think of what to write here regarding things like that.
I expect that is true here as well. The direct blunt anonymous nature of the internet makes communication different. We need to understand it is different.99% of the people I met seemed genuinely interested, surprised and encouraging.
Hello Beatrice, just do not read what does not interest you. That is what I do. Maybe you just need to break free for awhile from the forum but if you have good info I am sure people would appreciate what you write or they would skip through it. Have a nice Saturday. Maya'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.
How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.
So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?
*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?
*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?
*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?
*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?
* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?
Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.
I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?
I wrote my post because I was tired of ignoring comments like that. They do disturb me. If everyone is ignoring things that bothers them and never speak out it will be even more accepted. I think that leaving the forum is an extreme form of ignoring but at least it maybe got some people to read my post and arguments.Hello Beatrice, just do not read what does not interest you. That is what I do. Maybe you just need to break free for awhile from the forum but if you have good info I am sure people would appreciate what you write or they would skip through it. Have a nice Saturday. Maya
Wow. Planned Stages. Beatrice, I sometimes feel unprepared because I have not planned enough. I read and google and search the forum, but in the end every time I make plans, God laughs.I wrote my post because I was tired of ignoring comments like that. They do disturb me. If everyone is ignoring things that bothers them and never speak out it will be even more accepted. I think that leaving the forum is an extreme form of ignoring but at least it maybe got some people to read my post and arguments.
It isn't always comments to me it is more often than seldom a question about speed and length get's at least one answer that says "it is not a race" or "you can't experience anything by rushing though the camino". The answers that got me to write this post is this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323519 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323527 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323655 (all in the same thread) for me they were really typical examples of saying "hey you are not doing it right if you walk 35 k/day". It says that every one walking long distances will not experience the real stuff. My later posts here tries to show that walking long distances doesn't mean that you run through the camino without getting memories, see stuff and enjoy life.
But every time I see a comment like that (I can hardly ignore them before I have read them If I don't start to block people) I get so tired and sad as it says to me that my caminos are wrong and that I should shut up and not give advice that encourage doing it the wrong way. I stopped writing here for several months after such comments a couple of month ago. I stopped reading as well for a while but then I booked my next camino as came back to seek advice. But I haven't published my planned stages even thou I would love comments on it like "you should really stop in X instead of Y because the albergue Z is so good" or "no do't stop there, there is no good food there" or "take the detour over X to see the lovely ruins" because I know that if I post a plan that is CP with average stages 36 km or 40 km I will get the answers saying, that is way to fast, you will miss everything, it is not a race, why not start i Porto instead as you only have so few days to do it bla bla bla bla. Of course I'll get lovely answers like this: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323731 and they can somewhat compensate the bad feeling from the other posts.
I prefer to carry quite light backpackLove those pics, Bea. Take a whole studio with you next time.
He HeWow. Planned Stages. Beatrice, I sometimes feel unprepared because I have not planned enough. I read and google and search the forum, but in the end every time I make plans, God laughs.
I have noticed, like you, most people on the forum have planned their Camino. I really should. I started...I prepaid and reserved Orrison August 4th because that first day will be hard on me. But the next planned day of my itinerary is October 26 when I fly home.
My 59 years on earth have been a series of plans that failed. So for me, I need to allow the Camino to unfold day by day, hour by hour, and do my best. I envy you and those who plan and follow thru. My lesson is letting go and letting God, and I hope I am strong enough to learn it.
Why? Seems very strange to separate it and who shall decide when it is fast or long enough so you have to write there instead. Then someone really have to answer my questions in the OP.Maybe it would be a good idea for @ivar to start a forum section (like we have different ones for Equipment Questions, Camino Frances, etc.) for "Fast walkers, long stages."
Fourth photo down looks like the snail that passed me on the Camino......I usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.
There are so many interesting objects to practise photography on and to give me the pleasure to be able to relive the trip once more. I don't need to look at the ground when walking, my feet can handle that part and my eyes can be used for see the small things. A spiders web, a bug, a snail, a lovely roof and the lovely pattern on the ground.
I see all this things even thou, when my feet are moving , I walk fast. Long distances just mean that I can see more in one day. Of course walking slow means that I might be able to look at them for a longer period at time when on the move. But I stop all the time for the "little things". I observe them, put them in the right perspective, the right light, the right mood. I don't take a point and shoot photo to be able to continue faster and having the memory recorded in a "will do photo". Walking fast mean that I can take my time to smell the roses and taking photos or talking to a local without feeling the stress of missing to be first in line at the albergue. Walking far each day is just because I am a machine who can just walk walk and walk and that is why my brain relaxes from the stress at work, from home and stops thinking of all the "must" in life, when I walk it is just me and the road (and all the interesting things to see around the next corner or road bend).
I wish sometimes that I had written my CF blog in English, that might have helped to get some people to understand that walking fast doesn't have to be the same as "rushing by and missing everything". Well I did miss some churches, I missed some festivals as I passed through the town to early in the morning but so did the slow walkers who had fallen 1 days behind me etc etc... Those pilgrims might have missed the lovely old man that gave my plums instead.
I was discussing the same thing at home yesterday. I can also se that Brierley's CP guide have longer stages than most of the CF stages and for some reason that seams to be ok there but if you do the same stretches on CF it is considered to far. Even his average stages are longer on CP than CF but not so much 26.7 and 23.9 km/day. Even Brierley points out that if you do to long stretches (a staggering 28 km/day (CF in 4 weeks)) you don't have time to attend mass, meditate, write up your journal and reflect on your purpose. Otherwise it is not a pilgrimage. What he doesn't say is how long this has to take and what about those who are slow walkers that comes to the albergue late even if they do a short stage (I was at the albergue on CF earlier than some who had done a short stage even if I had done 1,5 Brierley stages)? For him the time at the daily stop seams more important then the daily journey. So the rule should maybe be "you need to have X hours at the rest place" each day. For some reason he doesn't write anything about this in the CP guide. In the CF guide he points out that he like the fact that he walks one day for each day Jesus lived like that has been the purpose of the stages. Maybe I should send the questions to himI wonder how much our attitude to what might be a long stage or a fast walk is influenced by guides like Brierley's that break the walk into stages that are achievable in a day.
Recently I downloaded a copy of Raimond Roos' yellow guide, and I took Alison Raju's guide to St Olavs Way with me when I walked that pilgrimage. They both describe the path from town to town or place to place, rather than by daily stages. This gives far less emphasis to any one place as being a good place to stay, or a particular distance being a good distance to achieve.
No I don't want to have answers. But people continue to say things like maybe there should be a separate section for fast walkers. I can't really understand why. And the comment I made about Brierely was more that he seems to have rules in his head as well but only shows the result of them not the rule it self. Rules that others seem to follow without knowing why. Pointing out that they should share the rules then seems to make them think about it. That no one can set the limits. I think the thread did its purpose to show another side of the subject. That you should think before you answer. That having the "secret rules" excludes some from writing here.Oh Beatrice, you really want someone to answer your questions, don't you? You are begging for some hard and fast rules. But why? You don't strike me as the type to want to break rules just to feel better! I may have missed something, but it seems to me that most people - even those who have been "guilty" of strongly expressing their opinion as fact - agree that it's NOT about rules and that sometimes opinions have been expressed in less than ideal ways. It seems to me that some good has been achieved by this thread (ie highlighting the fact that some people can happily walk far and/or fast and that sometimes we need to be careful of how we express ourselves), but the good feels in danger of being annihilated by an insistence that we create a law book.
But if you really need a rule, how about "all must be done in the spirit of love"?
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