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So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
If you meet a Geneva to Fisterra foot pilgrim, you may want to feel that you are in the presence of greatness!when you meet someone who has walked particularly long or difficult routes, I think it is OK to acknowledge that fact
????
I'm sorry Dave, 'boots or trailrunners' of course
...when at first you conquer the CF, in your naïvety you might think of yourself that you´ve had it tough, until the next route you take on that is slightly more taxing.
I sometimes wonder why the evaluation has to be made at all, whether some " have it easy", and " if only they knew"....
I do not get why you even want to speculate...-!?
So much of one´s daily preocupation is with taking a good route in a perfect stride, if possible....don´t fall, don´t get lost, for some even: don´t die !!
Why even bother. Why get yourself poisoned by the mere thought....
If somebody needs a lesson taughyt how tough life/ the Camino is, it will be coming to him/her..!
We learn and we grow, we do not need benchmarking one another...
Elitism ,my sore feet !! Sometimes there are too many armchair relections.....
That is left well in the life we leave for a couple of weeks/ months while we test ourselves.
Let people who have this kind of superiority complex be in their own bubble, because you sure as Higgins do not need it....
@lovingkindness' pilgrimage from Trondhiem to Santiago several years ago inspired me, as did meeting two Norwegians in Trondheim who had walked from there or Oslo to Santiago, Rome and Jerusalem. The thing is, I didn't get any sense these three thought of themselves as part of an elite class of pilgrims.If you meet a Geneva to Fisterra foot pilgrim, you may want to feel that you are in the presence of greatness!
I got a distance certificate after I walked the VdlP two years ago. It just felt good to celebrate the symbolic number of walking 1,000 km.So anybody did something special, but somehow my own way seems to be the hardest and most worthy one.
But it seems to be inside most of us. If not, the distance certificate "Compostela" would not make any sense.
Quite good but I'm not sure the word "patsy" applies. I always thought that meant a fall-guy, stooge or dupe? Why is there never a copy of Webster to hand when you need one?Interesting question. How do I look at pilgrims walking a different Camino than me? I do have some thoughts about that.
She/he who is not walking the Mozárabe (Almería-Mérida-Astorga-Santiago) is a patsy, because she/he walks less than 1428 km.
She/he who is not walking the Camino Vadiniense (which connects the Del Norte with the Frances, crossing right over the rugged Picos de Europe) hasn't crossed real mountains and doesn't know what she/he is talking about.
She/he who is not walking the Frances is afraid of other people and is too scared to really face this fear.
She/he who is walking the Frances is too scared of not being with other people.
She/he who has his backpack transported is not a real pilgrim, because she/he does it the easy way and doesn't 'suffer' like a real pilgrim.
She/he who carries her/his own backpack is not a real pilgrim, because she/he has the luxury to carry things with him. The medieval pilgrims (the real ones!!!) didn't carry a backpack, simply because they didn't own a toothpaste, evening footwear, a sleeping bag, rain gear, .....).
She/he who stops in Santiago and does not walk to the coast gives up too easily, not doing it the whole way.
She/he who looks down on other pilgrims because they don't do the hardest Camino, don't carry their backpack, don't do the longest possible distance, is a bit of a patsy, because he needs to put other people down in order to feel good himself.
Instead of putting energy in considerations like this, one could also just walk his/her own Camino the way she/he likes to, not judging other pilgrims making different choices. In my opinion there's no such thing as a 'better' or 'harder' Camino, no such thing as doing it the easy way, and I couldn't possibly tell someone which Camino to do or how to do it. Having walked a few Camino's, it might be possible for me to compare them, but I don't feel the need to do so. For me, each Camino had it's own meaning, not being better or worse than any other one.
I usually tell people of my prior Caminos so that they know that if they have any Camino related questions that they can ask me. I hope that my experience can be helpful.to those who really want to tell you how many Caminos they’ve done before,
I was not looking for recognition of my achievement but after I finished the Norte last year I was by far the most emotional when I got to our Church in Santiago. I really struggled a lot especially the first half of the Norte. I walked into Santiago with a young Swedish friend who was about 35 years younger than me. He told me he was surprised by my outpouring of emotion when we finished. I know that my emotional reaction had alot to do with my physical and spiritual struggles that occurred during the Camino. I think the emotions I felt would not have been there as intensely if the 30 year old version of me had just completed the Norte. The next day by wonderful chance I met a friend who I walked with alot on the Camino Portugese one year earlier. He had just finished the VDLP. He is just a few years younger than I am and he too experienced extreme difficulties. His was more with the weather on the VDLP (extreme heat) and many many days of walking in complete solitude and nights alone in empty albergues. We talked for a long time about our very different but at the same time very similar experiences. For my dear friend it was going to be more difficult to process his complete experience. For me, it was much easier as I did feel a sense of completion and achievement. It is not something I bragged about but it was something that I felt very comfortable talking to another Pilgrim about. When I returned only my wife had a strong sense of what I went through as when we had video calls on Whatsapp she could see the sometimes exhaustion in my face. With others I just left the description of my experience as it was tough, beautiful and worth every step. I have learned that (and have had agreement from many pilgrims) that only a fellow pilgrim can truly understand the steps we take on our camino. Most everyone experiences their own private pain and suffering as we walk. This is one of the beautiful bonds that we all share as pilgrims. What makes this experience even more fantastic is that for many of us who have walked and left a part of our bodies on the camino, we can't wait to do it again!!!!There seem to be three divergent discussions in this thread:
1. Someone who might look down at another's Camino accomplishment, because they wallow in the belief that they did a 'harder', more 'worthy' Camino.
2. A recognition of an individual's achievement and accomplishment for something they did that is out of the ordinary, and a challenge, for them.
3. The 'Wow' factor. Looking at another's achievement, which seems fascinating, fantastic, or amazing to us as an individual.
I have no time for the likes of #1; but I periodically come into contact and applaud #2 and #3.
Hey, Elle. I will never forget your "race" with those peregrinos on the Primitivo you wrote about!I love everyone's input! However, I do notice this tendency for competition in myself, both on and off Camino. I own it. As you all most likely are aware, we meet pilgrims on the race, not just for beds, but to prove their fitness. It's hard for me not to compete in such a situation. (Albeit at 60, this gets tougher and tougher!!) It is the world we live in that promotes comparison and competition. Why wouldn't our human nature carry on, on the Camino as well?? I love discussions like this, because it allows us to take a deeper look inside ourselves.
Ha ha, Chris! I was going to put in a link, then thought I wouldn't humiliate myself here on this thread!Hey, Elle. I will never forget your "race" with those peregrinos on the Primitivo you wrote about!
I found it spunky and humorous...you're not a yogi for nothin'!@caminochrissy
Ha ha, Chris! I was going to put in a link, then thought I wouldn't humiliate myself here on this thread!
My experience has been that on almost every occasion when someone brings up the pecking order of camino difficulties, if a comment is made regarding the toughness of a pilgrim it is done in jest. I especially witnessed this first hand last year on the Norte as my young Pilgrim friends I met would often lovingly abuse "Grandpa" as he bitched and moaned walking up some of those hills or zigzagged down others. It always gave me an added incentive to get up or down and tell them to stick it as we all had a good laugh over it.So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
The last Camino we walked was in winter so the Valcarlos route was the only open available and even part of it was closed due to snow. The road was great and we make a couple of life long friends on that road. My wife had issues with the feet and set us back a couple of days so we taxied to catch up on our time schedule for air reservations. Lessoned learned next walk in October we are adding 10 day extra so we won't have to hurry.I have noticed that there is a certain sense of one-upmanship among some new pilgrims who walk the Napoleon route instead of the Valcarlos route, but that usually goes away as they get their first blisters and absorb the beauty of the journey. I walked the Valcarlos in the spring and the scenery was gorgeous.
Most of us have our favorite route of the moment. Mine is the Aragones, I was thoroughly moved by the thousands of years of history along the route, which in no way diminishes the other routes.
What I do not care for are the people who "want to skip the boring parts". To me that says more about the person than the route.
Embrace the fact that the journey is different for each of us!
I have just cycled the vacarlos route and consider it one of the hardest bike rides ever. I imagine walking it equally as hard more so than napolean route which I walked 2017.I have noticed that there is a certain sense of one-upmanship among some new pilgrims who walk the Napoleon route instead of the Valcarlos route, but that usually goes away as they get their first blisters and absorb the beauty of the journey. I walked the Valcarlos in the spring and the scenery was gorgeous.
Most of us have our favorite route of the moment. Mine is the Aragones, I was thoroughly moved by the thousands of years of history along the route, which in no way diminishes the other routes.
What I do not care for are the people who "want to skip the boring parts". To me that says more about the person than the route.
Embrace the fact that the journey is different for each of us!
There seem to be three divergent discussions in this thread:
1. Someone who might look down at another's Camino accomplishment, because they wallow in the belief that they did a 'harder', more 'worthy' Camino.
2. A recognition of an individual's achievement and accomplishment for something they did that is out of the ordinary, and a challenge, for them.
3. The 'Wow' factor. Looking at another's achievement, which seems fascinating, fantastic, or amazing to us as an individual.
I have no time for the likes of #1; but I periodically come into contact and applaud #2 and #3.
She/he who is not walking the Frances is afraid of other people and is too scared to really face this fear.
People always want to categorize themselves and others into social groups. More than often this leads to oppressive or ugly "us" and "them" thinking. Unfortunately pilgrims are not exempt. Amount of kilometers walked, where did you start, wearing a pack or having it transported, municipal albergue or private accommodation, religious or 'just' spiritual, nationality, boots or trainers, anything goes. I try to be as aware as I can of this behavior, in myself and others, so I can cut and run at the first sign of it. Dividing up the world like this leads to nowhere. And, metaphorically speaking, I'm trying to reach Santiago.
Elite?... I'd call you "Super human"!Amen!
p.s. from someone who walked 52 km into Santiago yesterday afternoon in stormy weather with pounding rain and wet to the bone (so I must belong to the "elite" category)
I decided to get the distance certificate for walking every step of the Camino Frances. It states I walked 799 kilometers. I didn't understand why they couldn't round it up 1 more kilometer to an even 800! I certainly walked even more than that when I walked up to the castle ruins in Castrojerez!!I got a distance certificate after I walked the VdlP two years ago. It just felt good to celebrate the symbolic number of walking 1,000 km.
My distance certificate says that I walked 1,006 km on the VdlP and another pilgrim who signed in on the same route at the same time was credited with 1,007. But I can see that it is a bit annoying to get a certificate that states that you walked 1 km less than the next 100. It is also funny, in a perverse sort of way. I have never looked at my distance certificate since, so I may remember it incorrectly. Buen camino on all your ways.I decided to get the distance certificate for walking every step of the Camino Francis. It states I walked 799 kilometers. I didn't understand why they couldn't round it up 1 more kilometer to an even 800! I certainly walked even more than that when I walked up to the castle ruins in Castrojerez!!
No, @LTfit , you are a gazelle in pilgrim's clothing.I must belong to the "elite" category
So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
Just walking is good enough.
Better than, worse than, equal to...it's all a source of suffering. Just walking is good enough.
No, @LTfit , you are a gazelle in pilgrim's clothing.
Just....
Both of you were cheated; it is 1,008 km.says that I walked 1,006 km on the VdlP and another pilgrim who signed in on the same route at the same time was credited with 1,007
Yes, but I still say leave the rice cooker at home next time!IMHO Walking any of the Camino routes is a very personal journey.
We all walk for our own reasons.
We all have different capabilities.
Walk your own journey, and if you feel the need the judge others, keep walking, till you don't
But it was an interesting question.
No. Take it but leave it in an albergue for the rest of us.Yes, but I still say leave the rice cooker at home next time!
Maybe it will be available for most peregrinos, but I don't think he is walking from Barcelona come October so you'll be outa' luck this time.No. Take it but leave it in an albergue for the rest of us.
Yes, I remember when a large school group of young people walking faster than me got to the next bar and drank all the cold drinks before I arrived. I remember thinking some pretty mean things when all I was offered was a room temperature beverage and not a cool one fresh out of the (now empty) cooler...but all in all they were having a good time and doing something important. It is hard to get out of your own head when you are hot and tired. My husband, Phil, just humored me until we came to the next place with a cool drink. He loved talking to the young people who were practicing their English with him and helped me see the beauty of what these young folks were doing.I have to admit to some occasionally judgemental behaviour regarding the last 100k of the Frances
We found ourselves grumbling about a happy skippy group with fresh feet, and without packs, who were singing their way up a hill. We actually had a good laugh about it in the end.Yes, I remember when a large school group of young people walking faster than me got to the next bar and drank all the cold drinks before I arrived. I remember thinking some pretty mean things when all I was offered was a room temperature beverage and not a cool one fresh out of the (now empty) cooler...but all in all they were having a good time and doing something important. It is hard to get out of your own head when you are hot and tired. My husband, Phil, just humored me until we came to the next place with a cool drink. He loved talking to the young people who were practicing their English with him and helped me see the beauty of what these young folks were doing.
Yes, but I still say leave the rice cooker at home next time!
Hola @Davgar99 - about the only elitism I suggest relates to those who start in Sarria (the bucket listers, not those who have medical or physical issues) compared to those starting east of Burgos. IMHO any pilgrim who walks "all of their chosen camino" should be regarded with respect.So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
I say “Who cares what they think or say” everyone does what suits them. I admire people who have done long and several walks never the less. Hats off to them!!The folks who walk the shortest distances in the greatest comfort have chosen to be on the Camino, when they could have spent their vacation on a beach or stayed at home and watched TV. I can't understand why anyone looks down on that.
I think it's fine for people to take some pride in their own achievements, but if they translate that into looking down on other people's Caminos, then they've missed the point somehow. They should go back to the start and try again.
Nothing. But it is sad when the tail starts wagging the dog and ticking things off becomes more important than the things themselvesWhat's wrong with having a bucket list?
@Antonius Vaessen , I made the comment that I do not care for people who "want to skip the boring parts". Rather than judge the comment, or me, as being condescending, perhaps you should like to know my reasoning just as I respect your's. I look at a camino - and life- as a whole. Some parts will be more interesting or beautiful, other parts less so, even rather ugly and difficult. We are a product of that and cannot choose. To appreciate the better we must also see the lesser and vice verse.The only sensible way of being judgemental concerns the question how you want to act yourself. I don't like walking in crowds, with bars every kilometer. So I don't walk the Camino Frances. Other people like this. Why would anybody look down on that.
Someone in this thread said that he "did not care for people who skip the boring parts"
This sounds rather condescending to me. You cannot judge anybody's actions if you don't know their situation, the goals they have set for themselves and so on. That is certainly the case when their actions have no impact on you
I agree, but why would you have something on a "bucket list" if it wasn't something meaningful for you? I don't personally have such a list because there's just to many things that I want to see and do, and I'm constantly learning of new ones!Nothing. But it is sad when the tail starts wagging the dog and ticking things off becomes more important than the things themselves
Like I said your actions depend on the goal you set, this year we walked for three weeks on the paths of the camino del norte. We had not the intention of walking to Santiago, we just wanted to do nice walks, which meant that sometimes we took the longer coastal alternatives but also skipped the stage between Gyon and Aviles. I know also the other "side of the medal" (as we say in dutch) We walked the Coast to coast in the UK, that has a clear starting and finishing point. Due to circumstances we could not walk one stretch. It still feels like a miss.@Antonius Vaessen , I made the comment that I do not care for people who "want to skip the boring parts". Rather than judge the comment, not me, as being condescending, perhaps you should like to know my reasoning just as I respect your's. I look at a camino - and life- as a whole. Some parts will be more interesting or beautiful, other parts less so, even rather ugly and difficult. We are a product of that and cannot choose. To truly appreciate the best we must also see the worst and vice verse.
I believe that we all have had some serendipitous experience on the camino that has been humbling, that has come when our heart and mind are open to it, sometimes in the less interesting parts.
For bragging rights at your next party? I don't live in that kind of universe, either, @trecile - but we've probably both met that kind of person. I know I have.why would you have something on a "bucket list" if it wasn't something meaningful for you?
We live in a competitive world. While most of us intuitively know that walking the Camino is not a race, some can't help themselves. The same goes in regards to the discussion of the comparative difficulty of the terrain of various routes. The same also goes for how many Camino's have you walked. Maybe the worst are those that have done either the Pacific Coast or Appalachian Trail and go on and on about how 'easy' the Camino is in comparison.
I think I have heard it all on my various walks.
Some pilgrims like to talk about their 40 kilometer plus days, especially the younger pilgrims. I have often been surprised to keep encountering these same people when walking roughly half their daily distance's!
At this point in my life, while I am always happy to listen and add to the discussions of the challenges of various routes, listen to tales of super long daily distances or listen to people list off their various Camino's, I am personally just happy I still have the health to walk and enjoy each Camino's...and plan the next one!
For bragging rights at your next party? I don't live in that kind of universe, either, @trecile - but we probably both know that kind of person. I know I do.
That's not necessarily elitism. It could (and probably is) simple discernment.I can be very elitist but only in terms when I encounter people/ pilgrims who think they are " entitled " to something.
For me all my pilgrimages are dedicate solely to James, the longest , the hardest with lots of pain are the best presented to James and they will make HIM ever so happy, the rest don't matters as long I have been able to rich Santiago and pay HIM my respect.So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
I agree...everybody has a different tolerance and need. If you don't appreciate it, not necessary to share the negative feelings. Just take a different path and let people do what they like (as long as no one is harmed in the process)!The folks who walk the shortest distances in the greatest comfort have chosen to be on the Camino, when they could have spent their vacation on a beach or stayed at home and watched TV. I can't understand why anyone looks down on that.
I think it's fine for people to take some pride in their own achievements, but if they translate that into looking down on other people's Caminos, then they've missed the point somehow. They should go back to the start and try again.
So true! My wife met me in Sarria, to walk the last 5 days together. Also, more friends joined for the last 3 days and 10 of us arrived together in Santiago, after I had started alone in SJPP. On top of that, Ann (wifey) who is more social, made new friends along the way that she is still in touch with. It was a merry romp to the finish. A very different experience and also a very welcome one. I guess we can acknowledge the differences without judgement, only when is ceases to matter to us.I have walked from Sarria twice, as the last portion of my walks from SJpdP and from Oloron Ste Marie through the Somport Pass. Both times, I met interesting people who were only able to walk from Sarria because of personal commitments: two Polish sisters who worked as waitresses in the south of Spain and could only get a bare week off for travel time and pilgrimage, a woman who worked in the Bank of England and had two very demanding young twin daughters at home. They were fascinating people, and I spent one night with the Polish sisters when all the albergues in the Salceda area had closed for the winter that day. We had to beg the owner of Albergue Turistico Salceda to open up for us, which he did, gave us a three bedded room in his hostal and cooked us a magnificent meal. You can have wonderful adventures with people on the last 100 km, every bit as good as with those with whom you walked for many weeks. If you are open to it.
That is a very good question. But we do, many of us. About something. Sigh. Work in progress.Why does anyone even care what others think?
.... you have my respect and admiration Mr. Bugg
Everyone who walks has different reasons, abilities, constraints, aspirations, a camino is a physical, mental and to some a spiritual journey, it is not a race or competition. A fit 18 year old is of equal status to a disabled 75 year old, hopefully both would enjoy their own experience going at their own pace.So I’m doing the Camino Primitivo with a small group of friends, considered by many to be the most difficult (and among the most beautiful). The closer we get to Melide and the closer we get to uniting with the much more populated French route, it bubbled among us the idea of the French Camino pilgrims having it “easy” compared to our treks across relatively remote mountains/valleys and dense forest.
While it was completely in jest, I couldn’t help but entertain the thought in my mind a little more about the possibility of different routes being looked at differently by pilgrims depending on which one they are taking. Is this a common sentiment? Do pilgrims have preconceived notions about the people that take certain routes? I don’t hold any malice or elitism against other pilgrims, everyone has their own journey that is special to them and I find that beautiful and needing to always be encouraged, but it’s something I’m rather curious about. I know there’s disdain for “turigrino” types but is there any sort of stereotypes or disdain for the different Caminos taken?
People always want to categorize themselves and others into social groups. More than often this leads to oppressive or ugly "us" and "them" thinking. Unfortunately pilgrims are not exempt. Amount of kilometers walked, where did you start, wearing a pack or having it transported, municipal albergue or private accommodation, religious or 'just' spiritual, nationality, boots or trainers, anything goes. I try to be as aware as I can of this behavior, in myself and others, so I can cut and run at the first sign of it. Dividing up the world like this leads to nowhere. And, metaphorically speaking, I'm trying to reach Santiago.
Good question. I wonder how many PhD theses have proposed an answer.Why does anyone even care what others think?
I don't think it is necessary to avoid the topic completely. From time to time, I will ask other pilgrims about their journey. If they have been walking for a while, I will applaud their efforts, irrespective of where they started, whether they are their main packs carried, etc. If someone hasn't been on the camino very long, I might comment on how great it is that they have found the time to do what they are planning, and what a wonderful achievement it will be to reach Santiago. My view is every pilgrim deserves recognition that what they have done, or will do, is an achievement other pilgrims think is worth acknowledging.Bravo! Now, I make it a point to never ask another pilgrim where they started as I do not want to be setting up my judging another pilgrim in terms of how far they walked, how long it took them, whether they send luggage ahead, or used public transportation for whatever reason. That is their business. Why should it matter to anyone else!
I promised myself when finishing my doctorate that I would never become so full of it...talk about Elitism!!Some years ago, I asked a friend what were the major themes that had emerged from his doctoral research. He looked at me, and I could see that I was on the cusp of getting the long answer. But to my surprise he said he could summarize it in one sentence: 'by our late 30s,' he said, 'we have given ourselves permission to be the bastards that we have become.' Until then, he went on to explain, we are much more likely to change our attitudes and behaviour in response to pressure from our work and community leaders and our peers.
Another explanation:
View attachment 58807
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Successfully undertaking further education wouldn't count to me as elitism, nor would sharing the knowledge that you gained in doing that. It is people who then think that this would give them some pre-eminence or authority in our society that worry me.I promised myself when finishing my doctorate that I would never become so full of it...talk about Elitism!!
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Successfully undertaking further education wouldn't count to me as elitism, nor would sharing the knowledge that you gained in doing that. It is people who then think that this would give them some pre-eminence or authority in our society that worry me.
I'm not sure where you are going with this. Successfully undertaking further education wouldn't count to me as elitism, nor would sharing the knowledge that you gained in doing that. It is people who then think that this would give them some pre-eminence or authority in our society that worry me.
I was unsure how to take the comment myself, and was hoping it was being said flippantly as a pun!I'm not sure where you are going with this. Successfully undertaking further education wouldn't count to me as elitism, nor would sharing the knowledge that you gained in doing that. It is people who then think that this would give them some pre-eminence or authority in our society that worry me.
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