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Sounds to me like Orisson would be a GREAT place to spend the night!peregrina2000 said:Hi, amybell,
The difficulty of the Pyrenees crossing depends on two things -- your fitness level and the weather. Here are the elevation numbers, as provided a few years ago by Johnnie Walker:
St Jean Pied de Port - Roncesvalles Altitude at departure: 180m/594ft.
On the way Orisson stands at 1095m/3614ft, then further on Col Lepoeder stands at 1430m/4719ft - this is the highest point on this route. There is then the descent to Puerto de Ibaneta and Roncesvalles.
Altitude at arrival: 920m/3036ft.
The toughest part is from St. Jean to Orisson because of the short distance -- 3100 feet elevation gain over about 8 miles.
So you can see that the total elevation gain is 4100 feet or about 1300 meters. If you compare that to walks/hikes you've taken you can get some idea about whether it's in your range or not.
Good luck and buen camino. Laurie
amybell said:thank you so much or all of your replies..... I am relatively fit and planning on getting fitter before i leave. Just how much preparation should one do before this? I have read books and researched but i still like I am out on a limb so to speak!!!!! I have no idea about altitude at all?????? or howthat will effect me?? Any any advice will be so gratefully received!!!! ishould point out that I am very excited and looking forward to it!!!!
amybell said:I am starting the Camino on 22nd May. Up untill now I have felt quite positive about my ability to be able to walk over the pyrenees, untill I read and I quote ' It is brutal, harsh and at times death would seem a better option'!!!!!!!!!!! Please someone tell me its not that bad!!!! or indeed if it is that bad then equally please tell me !!! thankyou
thank you so much or all of your replies..... I am relatively fit and planning on getting fitter before i leave. Just how much preparation should one do before this? I have read books and researched but i still like I am out on a limb so to speak!!!!! I have no idea about altitude at all?????? or howthat will effect me?? Any any advice will be so gratefully received!!!! ishould point out that I am very excited and looking forward to it!!!!
That sounds like 750ml of water across the course of a fairly active day, well short of the daily intake of 2 1/2 to 3 litre recommended even for normal consumption. That sounds too close to becoming badly dehydrated for my liking.Anniesantiago said:I disagree about carrying two liters of water. That is way too much weight and there is no reason. You can fill up at Orisso and again at the fountain at the top. I never carry more than one 8 ounce bottle and simply refill it. There is also the 'welcome wagon' at the top where you can buy a drink.
Well, it's not that bad after all. The problem with mountains, however, is that the weather is unpredictable. Sometimes even by locals. The best advice is to get knowledgable information on the conditions once you are in SJPP. The locals are used to the circumstances, assessing the conditions of ..... the pilgrims (amybell said:Up untill now I have felt quite positive about my ability to be able to walk over the pyrenees, untill I read and I quote ' It is brutal, harsh and at times death would seem a better option'!
Actually, I don't think the recommendation on what is an adequate water intake to maintain health has varied all that much, what seems to be unclear is whether this requires additional water. The (US) Institute of Medicine 2004 report on Dietary Reference Intakes for Electrolytes And Water highlights included:Anniesantiago said:How much water a person should drink seems to change with the wind along with how many eggs, how much salt, and whether caffeine is good or bad. Its all theory.
There is also an interesting article on Snopes debunking some of the urban myths about this. It is at http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp.The vast majority of healthy people adequately meet their daily hydration needs by letting thirst be their guide. (my emphasis) The report did not specify exact requirements for water, but set general recommendations for women at approximately 2.7 liters (91 ounces) of total water -- from all beverages and foods -- each day, and men an average of approximately 3.7 liters (125 ounces daily) of total water. The panel did not set an upper level for water.
About 80 percent of people's total water intake comes from drinking water and beverages -- including caffeinated beverages -- and the other 20 percent is derived from food.
Prolonged physical activity and heat exposure will increase water losses and therefore may raise daily fluid needs, although it is important to note that excessive amounts can be life-threatening.
kmrice said:After the climb to Orrison, what's the second toughest climb?
Karl
Due to individual differences in fluid tolerance- Some individuals cannot comfortably handle the
amounts of fluid to approximate fluid losses during activity. A possible solution to this may be
gradually drinking over time and not having one large amount after a period of time
Runners should be able to recognize the basic signs and symptoms of
the onset of heat illness for which dehydration may be a cause: irritability, and general discomfort,
then headache, weakness, dizziness, cramps, chills, vomiting, nausea, head or neck heat sensations
(e.g. pulsating sensation in the brain), disorientation and decreased performance
The advice to target 10% is a pack base weight target, ie without food and water. Water carried is not a percentage of the 'total weight' but an add on to the base weight, along with any food that is added to the pack.grayland said:2 kg is a substantial percentage of the total weight that it is advised for most people to carry...let alone up the mountain on the first day.
Other than the weight of the container if the water was carried externally rather than internally, what difference will this make? Drinking a litre of water at one time is a physical challenge, and could be quite uncomfortable even on an empty stomach. I don't think it would be possible for the average person to do that on top of breakfast.grayland said:but drinking a liter before you leave SJPdP and another at Orisson might be a better idea.
I stand by my own support for this advice, and suggest that any advice to carry less than a litre is not sound general advice in the face of the recommendations on acceptable water intake.whariwharangi said:Bring enough water ... I'd suggest two liters ... for if it is a hot day and you run short of water it becomes "brutal, harsh and at times death would seem a better option".
Thank you for your comments. . I hike a lot in the Rockies west of Calgary and people I know who have hiked the Camino have told me that if I hike in the Rockies then the Pyrennes will be manageable.grayland said:There is also a problem of advising people to carry excess weight over the Route Napoleon.
You can get water at Orisson. You do not need more than 1 liter to get you the 7 km to Orisson and then fill up. Orisson to Roncevelles does not require more than 1 liter of water...except in the hottest days in August..but probably not even then.
Walking over the mountan is not a marathon nor does it require anything like a marathon. It simply is not a comparison.
I have done it a couple of times and actually find it to be nothing like the horror scenes that are sometimes described here.
grayland said:Walking over the mountan is not a marathon nor does it require anything like a marathon. It simply is not a comparison.
I have done it a couple of times and actually find it to be nothing like the horror scenes that are sometimes described here.
I think this is great advice, and I highlighted the equivalent statement in the Institute of Medicine reports I quoted earlier. It seems pretty clear to me that if you are not carrying enough water on you, you cannot actually heed this advice. Certainly if you carry the very small quantities of water being recommended here, you risk not being able to do this.Anniesantiago said:When you're thirsty, drink.
When you're not, don't drink.
This might have been the poster's personal experience, it was not mine. Walking Route Valcarlos in late Mar I refilled a 2li bladder at Arneguy, topped it up at Valcarlos and refilled it at the font at the top of the climb. In my case, only carrying a 250ml bottle would have been both foolhardy and dangerous.grayland said:You do not need more than 1 liter to get you the 7 km to Orisson and then fill up. Orisson to Roncevelles does not require more than 1 liter of water...except in the hottest days in August..but probably not even then.
Again, this was not my experience walking in early spring, particularly on the Mesata where several fonts were dry, including those in some villages. By the time I got to Leon, I had stopped relying on fonts being available, and made sure that I filled up more regularly when I stopped for a coffee or snack.Anniesantiago said:There are more than enough opportunities to fill up a bottle on the Frances
TheTinkerBell said:Great thread!
Two questions haven't been answered though...
1. How steep is steep (in the SJPP to Orrison sections)?
2. Is the facility there to ship your rucksack on to Orrison or Roncesvalles from SJPP before you start walking?
Thanks in advance!
TheTinkerBell said:Great thread!
Two questions haven't been answered though...
1. How steep is steep (in the SJPP to Orrison sections)?
2. Is the facility there to ship your rucksack on to Orrison or Roncesvalles from SJPP before you start walking?
Thanks in advance!
whariwharangi said:...
1. Class one walking. Using Brierley's maps its relatively steady uphill for 10 km from SJPdp to Auberge Orisson with 600 meters elevation change or 60 meters per kilometer...
whariwharangi said:1. Class one walking. Using Brierley's maps its relatively steady uphill for 10 km from SJPdp to Auberge Orisson with 600 meters elevation change or 60 meters per kilometer.
NicoZ said:grayland said:I'll try again. Some of the people reading aren't in perfect condition. Not at top fitness levels. Not normally active. They may be older. They may be jet lagged from long flights.
The people at risk are likely the ones most likely to take hydration lightly.
Those marathon runners are active. In fairly reasonable shape. They still end up at risk.
dougfitz said:BTW, what do you mean by 'Class one walking'? There is an Australian standard for describing walks, and it well exceeds most of the Class One/Grade One criteria. Its length fits into the Grade Two criteria, but its steepness would push it into Grade Three or even Grade Four.
Regards,
US rating system:
Class 1 - easy hiking usually on good trail
Class 2 - More difficult hiking that may be off-trail. You may also have to put your hands down occasionally to keep your balance. May include easy snow climbs or hiking on talus/scree.
Class 3 - Scrambling or un-roped climbing. You must use your hands most of the time to hold the terrain or find your route. This may be caused by a combination of steepness and extreme terrain (large rocks or steep snow). Some Class 3 routes are better done with rope.
Source: http://www.14ers.com/classes.html
dougfitz said:whariwharangi said:1. Class one walking. Using Brierley's maps its relatively steady uphill for 10 km from SJPdp to Auberge Orisson with 600 meters elevation change or 60 meters per kilometer.
I tried this in Google Earth, and the identified walking route is 7.5km from the centre of SJPP, with an elevation gain of 717m, and loss of 81m. The average upward slope is shown as 12%, with a maximum of 38.3%. There is an average downward slope of 5%, with a maximum of 20%. I cannot tell how closely the Google Earth route aligns to Route Napoleon.
Regards,
whariwharangi said:dougfitz said:BTW, what do you mean by 'Class one walking'? There is an Australian standard for describing walks, and it well exceeds most of the Class One/Grade One criteria. Its length fits into the Grade Two criteria, but its steepness would push it into Grade Three or even Grade Four.
Regards,
US rating system:
Class 1 - easy hiking usually on good trail
Class 2 - More difficult hiking that may be off-trail. You may also have to put your hands down occasionally to keep your balance. May include easy snow climbs or hiking on talus/scree.
Class 3 - Scrambling or un-roped climbing. You must use your hands most of the time to hold the terrain or find your route. This may be caused by a combination of steepness and extreme terrain (large rocks or steep snow). Some Class 3 routes are better done with rope.
Source: http://www.14ers.com/classes.html
By the US rating system its class one.
whariwharangi said:By the US rating system its class one.
Pieces said:well by the European rating system, this wouldn't be considered mountain climbing, so the rating makes no sense...
For a summary of different systems, there is a 2007 report by the Victorian Department of Sustainability and the Environment that summarises the Australian systems and a selection from other countries. It is at http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/__data/as...ting_Walking_Trail_Classification_Systems.doc.whariwharangi said:If there is a European (or other) system that says it better ... please post it.
There is an explanation of how to grade tracks under this system at http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/104754/dse_trail_grade_brochure_tagged.pdf. It takes into account distance, slope, track quality, markings and experience required.Under the new system, walking trails are graded on a difficulty scale from grades one to five.
Grade One is suitable for the disabled with assistance
Grade Two is suitable for families with young children
Grade Three is recommended for people with some bushwalking experience
Grade Four is recommended for experienced bushwalkers, and
Grade Five is recommended for very experienced bushwalkers
I took the road route to the right at the end- not much further but a lot easier than going down through the woods. The info I got from the Pilgrim Office in SJPP in 2008 recommended that.Kanga said:And then the descent through the beech woods is slippery and treacherous.
KiwiNomad06 said:I took the road route to the right at the end- not much further but a lot easier than going down through the woods. The info I got from the Pilgrim Office in SJPP in 2008 recommended that.Kanga said:And then the descent through the beech woods is slippery and treacherous.
Margaret
We did the Camino last September, crossing over the Pyrenees on the 9th - a beautiful sunny day - so yes, it can be good weather occasionallyI am loving all of your comments.... thank you, thank you ,thank you........ I am feeling more confident and excited with every post..... more tips please!!!! xxxxxxx
It is not that difficult at all but the best option is to break it up by stoping over night at Refuge Orisson, which is a wonderful stop over. By doing this you have a short but fairly steep first day but only 7.5km. The following day is an equally easy 18.5km just take your time. I walked it this way last year and shared the journey with some folk that were not fit or well prepared and they made it without too much effort. The key as always is to walk within your own capabilities and you will get there comfortably.I am starting the Camino on 22nd May. Up untill now I have felt quite positive about my ability to be able to walk over the pyrenees, untill I read and I quote ' It is brutal, harsh and at times death would seem a better option'!!!!!!!!!!! Please someone tell me its not that bad!!!! or indeed if it is that bad then equally please tell me !!! thankyou
....
If you are looking for something to worry about, then worry about the descent on to Zubiri-- now that was intense!
You will be fine take it easy and rest at Orisson for the night. n+I am starting the Camino on 22nd May. Up untill now I have felt quite positive about my ability to be able to walk over the pyrenees, untill I read and I quote ' It is brutal, harsh and at times death would seem a better option'!!!!!!!!!!! Please someone tell me its not that bad!!!! or indeed if it is that bad then equally please tell me !!! thankyou
Hi, Lynne, These are very helpful for those of us with knees of a certain age. I find the first tip for downhill hiking to be particularly helpful. It is kind of hard to verbalize, and I would just add that it involves bending the knees more than your "normal" step would be, taking shorter steps, and making sure to center your weight over your feet. You will feel it in your quads after several hundred meters. And you should lengthen your poles, too, to make up for the slope and the fact that the poles will hit at a lower level than when you're walking on level ground. All this talking about hiking technique fills me with longing to get back out there and walk! Buen camino, Laurie
If you are in decent condition, you will be surprised how much physical reserve you have on the first day. Tens of thousands of ordinary people walk from SJPdP to Roncesvalles in one day. Many are exhausted, and pay the price over the next week or two! I think that many of the recommendations you read about stopping at Orisson are based on reflection -- "if I had done it little less that first day, I could have been more comfortable the next couple of weeks."It really all does depend on your fitness level.
That is true. While it may not make a lot of difference over the next month, a lesser goal the first day may reduce anxiety, and get you into a rhythm from the start that keeps you below exhaustion. Knowing you will be walking only two to four hours can be great for your attitude!Stopping in Orisson can be a great thing.
Nevertheless you can always opt to walk from the Alto de Erro down to Zubiri on the road N 135 which crosses the camino at the Alto. On the road there is no slippery shale ; it is the SAFEST way to descend in bad weather.
Margaret Meredith
Thanks Margaret. I didn't know about that route. Good to know. Is it the same distance?
I would have to agree,and every ones metabolism is so different. I live in Arizona and work outside alot its nothing to go through 1.5g a day with out sweating, . My rule is if you have a chance to top up Aqua at any ?able time fill up. Also hiking i always have tabs and a steripen. Once in the Gila wilderness Aldo Leapold National Forrest 8k feet i thought ill be fine got low said well this looks like a nice little spring coming out of the side of a high peak,cold clean GIARDIA not fun 18 miles from anything or anyone, Then once in Vietnam went out with a local to a bar [ Same bar where DeNiro and Watkins played russian roulette] Boy what a night ,but got a little forgetful and had ice in my drinks boy 4 hrs later can you say ERUPTION worst 24hrs ever. Always better to have more then less. CheersThat sounds like 750ml of water across the course of a fairly active day, well short of the daily intake of 2 1/2 to 3 litre recommended even for normal consumption. That sounds too close to becoming badly dehydrated for my liking.
I think the advice to carry two litres is reasonable. My personal preference is to carry more except when I know that I can easily replenish from potable sources. My own experience did not support the general optimism that potable water is readily available, although from SJPP there appear to be places to get water on both routes that would make carrying as little as a litre an acceptable risk.
...
My worst day was the next one going downhill to Larrasoana.....
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