shefollowsshells
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Several alone and with children
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I think this is important to note… I arrived to the pilgrims office with five kids in tow, youngest nine years old , second youngest eleven… their packs weighed what mine did, we slept outside almost exclusively and had walked from Le Puy, GR 10 to Norte… and arrived either in Muxia or Santiago at the three month mark exactly! There was no e tea fanfare ( we didn’t expect there to be), but even when the eleven year old had tears in her eyes that her name was spelled wrong no one seemed to recognize the importance of it ( not trashing anyone just stating a simple fact)…. I’ve long since given up the importance of getting the certificate, though we did get ours last week which is different looking ( and colorful) than my previous ones…Certificate of distance means nothing to me… we know what we did…There may be something I am missing here. In my understanding all the Cathedral wants is assurance that you have walked the 100km immediately before the tomb of the Apostle (or ridden a bicycle or horse 200km), with spiritual or religious intent. Anything aside from that is irrelevant for the purposes of the Compostela. When I staggered in with two credentials full of stamps from Montserrat up through Catalonia, Aragon etc, or from Mont Saint Michel and onward down the Camino Vadieniense, that was the same for them as the teenager with her buddies sauntering from Sarria-- labourers in the vineyard and all that (Matthew 20). So the 100km is all @miwico72 has to worry about.
As others have suggested the clerk doing the distance certificates may not have tables ready for some of the routes proposed.
To me, the stamped credentials were great souvenirs, in the etymological sense, bringing up memories of where I stayed in Abejar, or the truck stop in Candasnos, and the hilarious Slovak nurses in Tapia, or the WWII veteran from Hamburg outside Los Arcos etc. If @miwico72 is doing memorial pilgrimages for different people, perhaps then his (IMHO complex) plans are perhaps understandable. Otherwise, I just really can't figure out why he wants so many compostelas for one journey. Why not just get the recreativo certificates rather than compostelas? Or do these routes over several years, with a pilgrimage devoted to each Camino? Enjoy the company, enjoy the hospitality of the Spanish and Portuguese people, enjoy the food and wine (and orujo), and count the storks on the steeples.
a PS- I see that @t2andreo has given the technical answers-- I have followed his posts over years on this forum and it is solid info. He has much experience at the Pilgrims' Office and their doings.
Are you sure the name was spelled wrong? In my experience the clerks will modify the spelling of the name to meet older Spanish conventions. She now has an official Spanish name. Nothing can be more official than the Compostela certificate. Imagine bringing that up at show and tell at school.I think this is important to note… I arrived to the pilgrims office with five kids in tow, youngest nine years old , second youngest eleven… their packs weighed what mine did, we slept outside almost exclusively and had walked from Le Puy, GR 10 to Norte… and arrived either in Muxia or Santiago at the three month mark exactly! There was no e tea fanfare ( we didn’t expect there to be), but even when the eleven year old had tears in her eyes that her name was spelled wrong no one seemed to recognize the importance of it ( not trashing anyone just stating a simple fact)…. I’ve long since given up the importance of getting the certificate, though we did get ours last week which is different looking ( and colorful) than my previous ones…Certificate of distance means nothing to me… we know what we did…
I volunteered at the pilgrims office last summer, and the names are latinized—when there is a Latin form of the name, they use that. I was looking up the Latin name on the document in my computer all day long!Are you sure the name was spelled wrong? In my experience the clerks will modify the spelling of the name to meet older Spanish conventions. She now has an official Spanish name. Nothing can be more official than the Compostela certificate. Imagine bringing that up at show and tell at school.
When in doubt...they often seem to use "am". Sounds like it covers a multitude of unsurety.so, my name is Rutham Mariam on all my compostelas(my name is Ruth Marie).
I was wondering why I was suddenly Lindam on my Compostela! Or at least, Linda with a little squibble at the end that nobody could really figure out what it was, haha. Cool.I volunteered at the pilgrims office last summer, and the names are latinized—when there is a Latin form of the name, they use that. I was looking up the Latin name on the document in my computer all day long!
so, my name is Rutham Mariam on all my compostelas(my name is Ruth Marie).
My understanding is that there are two styles of certificate that are issued at the Pilgrims Office. For those who walked with a stated purpose of religion / spiritual, the Compostela will be in Latin, and the pilgrims name will be inscribed in Latin.Are you sure the name was spelled wrong? In my experience the clerks will modify the spelling of the name to meet older Spanish conventions. She now has an official Spanish name. Nothing can be more official than the Compostela certificate. Imagine bringing that up at show and tell at school.
Are you sure the name was spelled wrong? In my experience the clerks will modify the spelling of the name to meet older Spanish conventions. She now has an official Spanish name. Nothing can be more official than the Compostela certificate. Imagine bringing that up at show and tell at
Yes I wondered too the “ when in doubt”….I’m of the mindframe some names can’t be converted and honestly didn’t want “am” thrown in the back of our names “ just because”. My family is very diverse, names from all over the World, some names i sort of made up… so I’m willing to say they never had a latin form and don’t really want to just have them changed to Latin “ just because”, though I clearly do love tradition, I’m just not convinced throwing “am” on our names is following a tradition.When in doubt...they often seem to use "am". Sounds like it covers a multitude of unsurety.
Are you saying you don’t believe in MY CASE there was an incorrect Spelling? I can assure you there was!!!!! Mistakes happen , it was a mistake… no harm done… an 11 year old cried over it, not a huge issue, a first World problem… but I can assure all those wanting to put a spin on it, it was respectfully, my accident, not maliciously spelled wrong… mistakes happen!My understanding is that there are two styles of certificate that are issued at the Pilgrims Office. For those who walked with a stated purpose of religion / spiritual, the Compostela will be in Latin, and the pilgrims name will be inscribed in Latin.
For those people who walked without declaring that they walks with a religious / spiritual intent, the certificate that the Pilgrims office issues is different, and I believe that the name entered is a Spanish equivalent of the name.
I do not believe that the pilgrims Office entered a name with incorrect spelling, but with a Latin or Spanish version of the original name.
I’m just not convinced throwing “am” on our names is following a tradition
I have googled this before in the past and found that both Thomas' Compostela and Thomas's Compostela is correct; I was surprised.This one is Maria's Compostela and this one is Thomas' Compostela.
I googled and then I decided to edit my post.I have googled this before in the past and found that both Thomas' Compostela and Thomas's Compostela is correct; I was surprised.
Well Thomas' compostela is still correct, too. It seems to be an either or situation, both are ok apparently.I googled and then I decided to edit my post.
A clear advantage in Latin is that such choices do not exist. Always follow Cicero!Well Thomas' compostela is still correct, too. It seems to be an either or situation, both are ok apparently.
FWIW, that's incorrect.I volunteered at the pilgrims office last summer, and the names are latinized—when there is a Latin form of the name, they use that. I was looking up the Latin name on the document in my computer all day long!
so, my name is Rutham Mariam on all my compostelas(my name is Ruth Marie).
to me it’s a gimmick, and my daughters name was spelled wrong, it didn’t involve the “-am” etc… it was fixed and noted by the office as spelled wrong.@shefollowsshells, I, too, would be curious to know what kind of mistake was on your daughter's Compostela. If it is a name that ends in -am, like say Carolam or Mariam, while the pilgrim's name is Carol/Carola or Mary/Maria, then it is not a mistake. That's the way they do it and it is correct spelling in the given context.
There is some confusion about this in this thread.
Female names ending in -a need an -m in this particular Latin sentence on the Compostela. That is not tradition and not a question of "when in doubt", it is grammar of the language used in this document.
It is just like in English where names require an -s in the following sentence: This one is Maria's Compostela and this one is Thomas's Compostela.
It's just that Latin grammar is different from English grammar.
For me, the Latin text on the Compostela is a gimmick in this day and age, and Latinising pilgrims' names is even more of a gimmick in this day and age. It would be better if the text was in English or in Spanish, then people would at least know what the words say and all names would appear on the Compostela in the same form as on each pilgrim's credential and on the form that each pilgrim fills in beforehand.
Oh, I had not realised that they fixed the mistake! I misread your earlier post, sorry.to me it’s a gimmick, and my daughters name was spelled wrong, it didn’t involve the “-am” etc… it was fixed and noted by the office as spelled wrong.
It wasn’t fixed easily, in fact it took a repeat visit to the office… but it was fixed. The gentlemen put the wrong vowel from what I could tell and spent a lot of time claiming it was his handwriting. I assume the several eyes on it concluded that it was in error as he re did it. It was cute… he lined himself up infront of the certificate and did some stretches as if about to do a task observed by the World- lolOh, I had not realised that they fixed the mistake! I misread your earlier post, sorry.
I didn’t know that either!Well Thomas' compostela is still correct, too. It seems to be an either or situation, both are ok apparently.
Sorry that it was your post that appears to have started this thread but your reference to a misspelled name brought the other moved posts down the wrong rabbit holeJust to clarify this moved thread ( understandably) appears that I started a thread on this subject, and did not. My post was in response to a post re: multiple compostellas at one office visit. I just wanted to clarify that this post of mine was not intentionally a “ started thread” by me… I wouldn’t have felt a need to start a thread on the subject, though it’s a good topic for education.
It does, I just didn’t want it to appear that I was whining and thought it worthy of a topic! Totally understand! I think it’s a good discussion to have, as it appears so many get their certificate and don’t really notice what’s on it ( which I understand)… I think only one of mine has left it’s roll. Though I always have grand ideas of framing the one with my kiddos!Sorry that it was your post that appears to have started this thread but your reference to a misspelled name brought the other moved posts down the wrong rabbit holeHope that explains.
The Compostela is in Latin and the names are latinised as is the date. Where no Latin equivalent is available on the computer you can write in whatever is on the pilgrim's credential or ID document.My understanding is that there are two styles of certificate that are issued at the Pilgrims Office. For those who walked with a stated purpose of religion / spiritual, the Compostela will be in Latin, and the pilgrims name will be inscribed in Latin.
For those people who walked without declaring that they walks with a religious / spiritual intent, the certificate that the Pilgrims office issues is different, and I believe that the name entered is a Spanish equivalent of the name.
I do not believe that the pilgrims Office entered a name with incorrect spelling, but with a Latin or Spanish version of the original name.
So what is this then (see below)? The person who received this certificate in 2017 wrongly identifies it as Compostela, diploma certifying that you have walked at least the last 100 km of camino.The non-religious certificates and the Distancia are in Spanish
Apologies if my post was in any way disconcerting, as no offence or 'spins', was intended.Are you saying you don’t believe in MY CASE there was an incorrect Spelling? I can assure you there was!!!!! Mistakes happen , it was a mistake… no harm done… an 11 year old cried over it, not a huge issue, a first World problem… but I can assure all those wanting to put a spin on it, it was respectfully, my accident, not maliciously spelled wrong… mistakes happen!
and we DID put a purpose for our walk …
no harm done, but no need to try to put spins on this… the story is the story….
LOL, I just noticed a similar mistake in the copy posted above: Datum Compostellae die 18th mensis Maii anno Dni 2017.I made several mistakes in writing a Latin date on Distancias and Spanish ones on Compostelas - the bins behind the clerk's desks fill up quickly!
"Mea culpa!"So what is this then (see below)? The person who received this certificate in 2017 wrongly identifies it as Compostela, diploma certifying that you have walked at least the last 100 km of camino.
But that is wrong, she obviously doesn't know what the text actually says.
I've not yet deciphered the whole text, and there does not seem to be a ready made translation online but of this I am certain: The text merely confirms that the holder of the certificate has visited the Cathedral and the tomb of Saint James. Nothing about walking, cycling or horseback riding.
The holder apparently did not tick the "religious" box or the "religious/cultural/spiritual" box on their application form (see her comments beneath the copy)
You're right, it's not a Compostela. It's a certificate of having visited the Cathedral in the manner of a pilgrimage, and a prayer for the person receiving it for corporal and immaterial benefits from the Father through the intercession of the Apostle towards the joy of salvation.So what is this then (see below)? The person who received this certificate in 2017 wrongly identifies it as Compostela, diploma certifying that you have walked at least the last 100 km of camino.
But that is wrong, she obviously doesn't know what the text actually says.
I've not yet deciphered the whole text, and there does not seem to be a ready made translation online but of this I am certain: The text merely confirms that the holder of the certificate has visited the Cathedral and the tomb of Saint James. Nothing about walking, cycling or horseback riding.
The holder apparently did not tick the "religious" box or the "religious/cultural/spiritual" box on their application form (see her comments beneath the copy).
Latin is an inflected language. The -am or -um ending indicates that the noun is in the accusative case.
I think I would contact the office and kindly request a correction. Briefly explain what happened, offer to pay them for a new, corrected compostela (they will reject the offer), and I think your daughter will get a new compostela that should hopefully make it better.Are you saying you don’t believe in MY CASE there was an incorrect Spelling? I can assure you there was!!!!! Mistakes happen , it was a mistake… no harm done… an 11 year old cried over it, not a huge issue, a first World problem… but I can assure all those wanting to put a spin on it, it was respectfully, my accident, not maliciously spelled wrong… mistakes happen!
and we DID put a purpose for our walk …
no harm done, but no need to try to put spins on this… the story is the story….
I took that as a personal challenge.I've not yet deciphered the whole text, and there does not seem to be a ready made translation online
So did I, but your most serviceable translation relegates mine to the bin.I took that as a personal challenge.
Oh, no I didn’t translate it, I found a translation online! I know I can’t beat Kathar1na at translating from Latin.So did I, but your most serviceable translation relegates mine to the bin.
euge bone serve et fidelis (Matt. 25:21)
I’m glad you “ know” that, it’s good to hear that… but I know what we experienced and we literally had to BEG for them to redo it. It was rather shocking! Infact we came back and begged more to get it changed. Honestly it’s water on the bridge and was fixed but not as easily as it should have been. I was there, said respectfully!!!!! It was fixed but not easily! and can assure you that I offered to pay just about anything…I think I would contact the office and kindly request a correction. Briefly explain what happened, offer to pay them for a new, corrected compostela (they will reject the offer), and I think your daughter will get a new compostela that should hopefully make it better.
A child feels deeply about these things and I would go the extra mile to make this right for her. I know those who work in the office also feel the same way.
I know humans will make mistakes, but I really am stunned that so many wrong things happened to you and your family. I am sorry about it and wish that it never had happened.I’m glad you “ know” that, it’s good to hear that… but I know what we experienced and we literally had to BEG for them to redo it. It was rather shocking! Infact we came back and begged more to get it changed. Honestly it’s water on the bridge and was fixed but not as easily as it should have been. I was there, said respectfully!!!!! It was fixed but not easily! and can assure you that I offered to pay just about anything…
anywho the spins of people “ knowing”… I was there with a pretty large invested interest- lol
Upon his/her arrival,On this occasion,
prayed that, through the intercession of the Apostle, the Father wouldasked, through the intercession of the Apostle, that the Father would
not only the corporeal benefits, but also the immaterial works of his/her pilgrimage.not only a good life, but also the immaterial benefits of the pilgrimage.
May he/she be blessed by Saint James.St. James bless and be blessed.
the Father would deign to grant him not only a good life
not only the corporal benefits
I thought I didn't recognise it. Brain not totally atrophied then!You're right, it's not a Compostela. It's a certificate of having visited the Cathedral in the manner of a pilgrimage, and a prayer for the person receiving it for corporal and immaterial benefits from the Father through the intercession of the Apostle towards the joy of salvation.
So it's not bad !!
The "official" distance walking every step from SJPdP to Santiago de Compostela is 799 kilometers, says my certificate.together with the "official" distance travelled to SdC.
Mine usually isn't.was it spelled correctly
Yes, and if "am" isn't appropriate, the "um" is a perfect substitute.Might explain why my Compostela moniker is "paganus molestam"It's that "am" ending makes it official apparently
Don't forget the Classical Latin Alphabet was A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T V X Y Z - no Js, Us or Ws.Mine usually isn't.
Initial J instead of I. And it's a Latin name !! (they don't always get it wrong, my 2014 that I have in hand right now is correct) (like putting "JabbamPapam" instead of Iabbam Papam)
Don't complain about it, and I'm happy with the J/I confusions that they can have.
Less sure about their tendency to use Indian/Arabic numerals in the date rather than the Latin ones !!
"die 30 mensis novembris anno Dni 2021" instead of die XXX mensis novembris anno Dni MMXXI.
"Modern" (i.e. Renaissance & later) Latin script does differentiate between u & v, as does the Compostela. The j can be used too, under the understanding that it's just the long form of i. But w is right out !!Don't forget the Classical Latin Alphabet was A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T V X Y Z - no Js, Us or Ws.
Are you trying to suggest that the translators of the Vulgate had better Latin than the officials at the Pilgrim Office who instruct the volunteers and set the practices? Clearly, our knowledge of proper Latin inflections has advanced over the centuries!FWIW, that's incorrect.
Vulgate, Book of Ruth :
{2:8} Et ait Booz ad Ruth: Audi filia, ne vadas in alterum agrum ad colligendum, nec recedas ab hoc loco: sed iungere puellis meis
Many names of Hebrew origin are invariable.
Are you trying to suggest that the translators of the Vulgate had better Latin than the officials at the Pilgrim Office who instruct the volunteers and set the practices? Clearly, our knowledge of proper Latin inflections has advanced over the centuries!
I know, crazy idea right ?Are you trying to suggest that the translators of the Vulgate had better Latin than the officials at the Pilgrim Office who instruct the volunteers and set the practices?
... are unreliable in many ways. The Latin of the Compostela is clumsy, for instance, hence our recent threads discussing that text having some to and fro.texts in Latin from the 16th, 17th, 18th century
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