For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
A simple explanation might be:
There is a basic amount of revenue needed to stay in business.
There is a minimum number of pilgrims per day to generate that needed revenue at $rate
If there current conditions has reduced the number of pilgrims below the minimum needed...
It is necessary to increase $rate to achieve the basic amount needed to stay in business.
Thus the price increases.
In most cases...not taking advantage at all.
To be honest, I would have to double the price to make it financially worthwhile to be open.
Well, in the first place, most of these albergues were established to "take advantage" of a business opportunity. So why would they provide this service if they cannot charge enough to pay for staffing, cleaning, administration, and the general additional headaches that are inevitable during these Covid times?owners who are taking advantage,
If you use the Chrome browser it will automatically translate it to English for you.The article is in Spanish. I know there is a way to do google translate on it, but I hope someone else can give instructions for those who don’t read Spanish.
Great to see that the grocer[']s apostrophe still thrives darn sarthLocally, the Rats Nest (name’s have been changed) is listing It’s Ham, Egg & Chips
I stayed at Christine’s one very cold night in November, in an unheated dorm. I think she heated one dorm and the dining room, and gave me the option of unheated privacy versus the heated shared space.My personal solution will probably be to close for the season much earlier than planned. Add heating costs to the equation and...well I guess you get the picture.
I really appreciate your honest and clear intervention. You claim to understand the increases applied by other property owners, but in the meantime you have not. It does you honor and I really wish you to have great satisfaction soonI've not raised my price of €10 for a bed in a small dorm of 4, 6 or 9 (which is now 2 to 4 due to the Covid-19 regulations) depending if together or not, but many have and I understand. Sure I could raise my price to €12 but considering the number of pilgrims I'm having that would make little difference. To be honest, I would have to double the price to make it financially worthwhile to be open. This is the hard truth.
Pilgrims may think that albergue owners are taking advantage cause "in the guidebook it says X". Difficult situations sometimes call for difficult steps.
My personal solution will probably be to close for the season much earlier than planned. Add heating costs to the equation and...well I guess you get the picture.
I agree that the owners are doing what they need to do to stay alive and I for one do not begrudge them for it. There are fewer pilgrims walking and they need to keep their livelihood going to be there when Covid is over (abated, etc.).I have to admit I am of two minds here. On the one hand, I read the reports of pilgrims who feel they have been “fleeced” by owners who are taking advantage, but on the other hand, my reaction is that these owners are doing what they need to do to stay alive themselves. I don’t mean to start an argument about this, but would be interested in hearing others‘ opinions.
The article is in Spanish. I know there is a way to do google translate on it, but I hope someone else can give instructions for those who don’t read Spanish. Very detailed information here, with recent reports on the Primitivo, Norte and Francés.
Buen camino, Laurie
I totally agree. Businesses everywhere have been raising their prices. If people expected things and prices to be the same on the Camino as they are during not Covid times, then perhaps they should have held off until the world had a better handle on things or until they could afford it. One cannot expect these people, whose livelihood depends on the revenue brought in, to just give them a bed, food, etc. basically for free.I think this happens everywhere , here in the Netherlands you see the same. They know that more people stay in there own country for their vacation and they take advantage of it.
It's not the way but as you said they have to survive.
I think it is a mixture of both situations.
On the one hand, you see albergues that are operating at a minimal fraction of their capacity (10/15%). This is due to the sum of two factors, the low number of pilgrims, the need to reduce the capacity of the albergue. (e.g.: in Cornellana, with a capacity of 36, we were 3 pilgrims).
On the other hand, there are albergues that are operating at 100% of the new reduced capacity. This can happen especially on the Camino del Norte where the albergues are almost full, mostly with tourists.
Some of them are even complementing their activity by working as a bar/terrace/restaurant for locals/tourists in the city. (e.g.: one in Muros el Nalon that had around 60/70 people dining on the terrace who did not sleep in the albergue - excuse me if I don´t want to say the name of the albergue).
For the first case, I consider that the price increase is inevitable. For the second case, I think the owners are taking advantage of the situation to maintain/increase their profits.
What I don't understand so well is why the public albergues are closed on the Camino del Norte (and might be in other Caminos with similar problems). On that Camino, finding albergue every night is quite difficult. As I mentioned, thousands of tourists are already filling the albergues.
I fully understand that in Caminos where the number of beds is well above the number of pilgrims, the public albergues are closed, avoiding unfair competition with the private albergues in these difficult times.
I have to admit I am of two minds here. On the one hand, I read the reports of pilgrims who feel they have been “fleeced” by owners who are taking advantage, but on the other hand, my reaction is that these owners are doing what they need to do to stay alive themselves. I don’t mean to start an argument about this, but would be interested in hearing others‘ opinions.
The article is in Spanish. I know there is a way to do google translate on it, but I hope someone else can give instructions for those who don’t read Spanish. Very detailed information here, with recent reports on the Primitivo, Norte and Francés.
Buen camino, Laurie
the new reduced capacity
The reduction in capacity means that the owners cannot maintain their income unless they raise the rates. Besides, "profits" means that the owner is making a living off this work - which we all need to do - and most of them do not become wealthy this way. It seems reasonable to me for the owner to try to maintain their income by providing a service to people who have chosen (and are able) to travel. If they were inflating the price of basic necessities, in order to accumulate wealth, I would certainly object!For the second case, I think the owners are taking advantage of the situation to maintain/increase their profits.
I believe, if you need to double the price to survive, you should consider it. It is still very reasonable. Covid is with us for the long term and if you plan to be in business for the long term, I don't see another option. May be consider a heating surcharge off season???I've not raised my price of €10 for a bed in a small dorm of 4, 6 or 9 (which is now 2 to 4 due to the Covid-19 regulations) depending if together or not, but many have and I understand. Sure I could raise my price to €12 but considering the number of pilgrims I'm having that would make little difference. To be honest, I would have to double the price to make it financially worthwhile to be open. This is the hard truth.
Pilgrims may think that albergue owners are taking advantage cause "in the guidebook it says X". Difficult situations sometimes call for difficult steps.
My personal solution will probably be to close for the season much earlier than planned. Add heating costs to the equation and...well I guess you get the picture.
I wish I could get accommodation (with a breakfast) for that price where I live....I'd move in..its cheaper than living at home.I have always had an unreal experience sitting in a bar along the way listening to someone complain about the albergue who has a "high" price of 12 euros...in place of 10 euro (or donotivo=nada). No free breakfast on offer is another complaint.
They are usually wearing very expensive tech clothes and the latest shoes. They are spending whatever it costs to have their pack transported. Often they are ordering a 15 euro + meal instead of the pilgrim menu....but a couple of extra euro for the albergue sets them off.
I have even heard threats to "report" the offending albergues/bars/pensions for not following their expectations.
I wasn’t going to comment as I found it quite depressing but...grayland, you took the words out of my mouth! My experience too.I have always had an unreal experience sitting in a bar along the way listening to someone complain about the albergue who has a "high" price of 12 euros...in place of 10 euro (or donotivo=nada). No free breakfast on offer is another complaint.
They are usually wearing very expensive tech clothes and the latest shoes. They are spending whatever it costs to have their pack transported. Often they are ordering a 15 euro + meal instead of the pilgrim menu....but a couple of extra euro for the albergue sets them off.
I have even heard threats to "report" the offending albergues/bars/pensions for not following their expectations.
....To be honest, I would have to double the price to make it financially worthwhile to be open. This is the hard truth.
I've not raised my price of €10 for a bed in a small dorm of 4, 6 or 9 (which is now 2 to 4 due to the Covid-19 regulations) depending if together or not, but many have and I understand. Sure I could raise my price to €12 but considering the number of pilgrims I'm having that would make little difference. To be honest, I would have to double the price to make it financially worthwhile to be open. This is the hard truth.
Pilgrims may think that albergue owners are taking advantage cause "in the guidebook it says X". Difficult situations sometimes call for difficult steps.
My personal solution will probably be to close for the season much earlier than planned. Add heating costs to the equation and...well I guess you get the picture.
Many years ago we found that many albergues were owned by people / companies as far away as Madrid.I have to admit I am of two minds here. On the one hand, I read the reports of pilgrims who feel they have been “fleeced” by owners who are taking advantage, but on the other hand, my reaction is that these owners are doing what they need to do to stay alive themselves. I don’t mean to start an argument about this, but would be interested in hearing others‘ opinions.
The article is in Spanish. I know there is a way to do google translate on it, but I hope someone else can give instructions for those who don’t read Spanish. Very detailed information here, with recent reports on the Primitivo, Norte and Francés.
Buen camino, Laurie
I paid 20 Euros in Estella at Agora Hostel - there definitely are albergues on the Francés that charge 15 Euro+, though I would say that they are mostly near the beginning or end of the Francés.Thanks to all of you who responded or commented on my post #5. Many suggested that I too raise my prices. That would appear a simple solution but I don't live in a shell and price levels are also dictated by location and what albergue owners are charging around you. This is reality and there is no simple solution unless we all would up the price. It is common to see €15 for a private albergue on the Vía de la Plata or the Norte for example (pre-Covid times), not so on the Francés.
Some of us are here on the Camino with albergues because we love the Camino, are pilgrims and have been volunteer hospitaleros. When you come from that background, as I do, it's difficult to increase to levels that I know I would not be able to walk a Camino. It's a personal dilemma and I have no answer at the moment but thanks for your support
I have always had an unreal experience sitting in a bar along the way listening to someone complain about the albergue who has a "high" price of 12 euros...in place of 10 euro (or donotivo=nada). No free breakfast on offer is another complaint.
They are usually wearing very expensive tech clothes and the latest shoes. They are spending whatever it costs to have their pack transported. Often they are ordering a 15 euro + meal instead of the pilgrim menu....but a couple of extra euro for the albergue sets them off.
I have even heard threats to "report" the offending albergues/bars/pensions for not following their expectations.
Never thought 64 could stay there if my memory is correct ,,,, but that’s a while ago.I am walking the Camino Frances at the moment and just stopped for breakfast in Puente la Reina.
I have not felt any significant increase in prices.
The first night I stayed at Orisson. We were just 9 pilgrims at dinner (used to be 64). They have 7 people working the run the place.
The second night I stayed in the Albergue
There are 28 beds at Orisson itself, but they offer the dinner to those staying at their other property, Gite Kayola, which has 15 beds.Never 64 could stay there if my memory is correct ,,,
Thanks to all of you who responded or commented on my post #5. Many suggested that I too raise my prices. That would appear a simple solution but I don't live in a shell and price levels are also dictated by location and what albergue owners are charging around you. This is reality and there is no simple solution unless we all would up the price. It is common to see €15 for a private albergue on the Vía de la Plata or the Norte for example (pre-Covid times), not so on the Francés.
Some of us are here on the Camino with albergues because we love the Camino, are pilgrims and have been volunteer hospitaleros. When you come from that background, as I do, it's difficult to increase to levels where I know I would not be able to walk a Camino. It's a personal dilemma and I have no answer at the moment but thanks for your support
yes I agree about the cruise . The fact of the matter is that these guys are running a business , they are not opening to make a loss , these are difficult times so we all need to just take it on the chin . I travel bit and to be honest the Camino was the cheapest holiday I have ever been on I came home with thousand of Euros sitting on my card .. for next time anywayI agree that the owners are doing what they need to do to stay alive and I for one do not begrudge them for it. There are fewer pilgrims walking and they need to keep their livelihood going to be there when Covid is over (abated, etc.).
When I walked the Camino and I would hear what people were paying for a room and in most cases an evening and morning meal and I recall thinking "what a deal". I thought they were rock bottom prices. In the case of the donativos, some people were walking away without contributing anything. I recall thinking, how do these establishments sustain themselves. I mainly stayed in hotels or private establishments (just my preference) and for the prices I was paying for 8 hours in hotel, I thought people were getting off very lucky.
I am sure that whatever they are paying it is far less than they would have to pay for a 1-2 week cruise.
At the end of the article, there is a detailed overview of the situation of the albergues and hostels covered in the article during July and August 2020:
Totally agree. I, too, travel quite a bit and it is the cheapest trip ever for a month long plus trip. And as I mentioned, I stayed in private places all the way with the exception of Orisson. It was also my most rewarding trip. So much so that I like many others was headed back this past April. It was not meant to be but I can't wait to get back, God willing.yes I agree about the cruise . The fact of the matter is that these guys are running a business , they are not opening to make a loss , these are difficult times so we all need to just take it on the chin . I travel bit and to be honest the Camino was the cheapest holiday I have ever been on I came home with thousand of Euros sitting on my card .. for next time anyway
Actually, you can have zero profit and still make a living off of your work.Besides, "profits" means that the owner is making a living off this work
I'll leave it to others to comment upon the reason for any price rises.
Personally, at this very moment, I would be happy to pay above the normal prices to help albergues private or public, local shops, cafe, bars and restaurants on any Camino route if I could guarantee my safety and the safety of everyone else around me.
Sadly that's not the case.
Buen(paying your way fairly) Camino.
This is another of those myths from economics theorists like the perfectly competitive marketplace. It should be consigned to the dustbin of history. Its origin was in the 1970s with free-market theorists, and while it remains somewhat conventional as a way of looking at how things might work, it has dubious foundations and limited utility in understanding how real businesses work.There is only one primary reason for operating a business, and that is " To make a profit ". If you have any other primary goal it will fail. It's not a lot more complicated than that. Covid, is just one more hidden shoal to be avoided.
I see a "decent income" as very subjective.If I were running/owning a business, I would be wanting to make sure I could pay myself a decent income from revenue. ‘Business for profit’ always struck me as a goal for big business shareholders.
Absolutely.I see a "decent income" as very subjective.
But there is a 3000 character limit - so you will need to delete paragraphs already translated. I did about half of the section on the Frances just to get a feel for the article. Understand P2000's view about the article, but not sure I agree 100%. CheersIf you use the Chrome browser it will automatically translate it to English for you.
???But there is a 3000 character limit - so you will need to delete paragraphs already translated.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?