- Time of past OR future Camino
- To Santiago + back
2400 km + 950 nmi
160 days
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I am zero at handling probabilities and I don't know any answers. I know, however, that the general advice is: Don't move, stay in place, reduce contacts to a minimum. And since not enough people did this voluntarily, there had to be perimeter lockdowns for towns, regions, and even whole countries to force everybody to stay inside and prevent anyone from entering.I have read narratives of pandemics, some fiction, some historical. It just struck me how people in a location which they understand is high risk have generally chosen to leave, often becoming a moving vector of infection, as they travel to areas thought to be safer. I am moving, mentally, into a nightmare world where I am unsure how someone can be safer in a pandemic without risking anyone else's precarious safety.
close promiscuity!!!!!The realities in each individual Albergue over here really are not that black & white, as each region and each separate municipality has its own rules.
And this is even more the case in this 2021, when the number of pilgrims per dormitory or even per Albergue can be as low as 0 or 1.
Windows open is a helpful tactic, but so is common sense ; and such absolute hard rules as you propose would put some already suffering Albergues straight out of business, and would make an already difficult situation on the ground even worse for the more casual pilgrims less able to make use of the great outdoors refugio under the stars (or perhaps the rain).
The most important thing to avoid is indoors close promiscuity as that is how most infections have occurred, well that and artificially recycled air indoors. Not air conditioning itself, but mechanical ventilation systems. Including just an ordinary electric fan.
In most Albergues the distancing and other rules are completely inapplicable, but then OTOH, there are those like the Municipal in Azofra where they are basically hardwired into its existing architecture.
Besides -- the early 1990s numbers of pilgrims this year are hardly stuffed together like sardines in their tin !!
Each of us has to come up with their own-camino plan. However, (not necessarily on this website) pilgrims may avoid certain cities, but then stay in common room albergues , where people they will share a room with not the greatest of ventilation, are likely coming from the very cities these other pilgrims are trying to avoid…for whatever reason.Well, yes. But there are fewer opportunities for close contact with others in the countryside as opposed to a biggish city like Leon, and a lower general infection rate as well. Fewer contacts and lower positivity rate equals less likelihood of getting and spreading the virus. So I'd choose to bypass Leon right now too.
I'm just talking, though, without the data to prove it. So please take that as an opinion, @Albertagirl, rather than established fact.
I agree with you. I have looked through most of the possible accommodation on the Levante and the VdlP/Sanabres from Zamora to Santiago. There are a few locations on the Sanabres where the only accommodation available is in albergue dormitories. However, by the time that I am there, in late October and November, I am hoping that the albergues will still be open, but with only me in them. This has happened in the past, as some albergues have not yet closed at the end of season. Most of the time, I am planning on staying in private accommodation, and there are a few albergues with an option for booking a single room. I am hoping not to have to sleep out, as I have decided not to carry camping gear beyond the sleeping bag needed in an albergue.Each of us has to come up with their own-camino plan. However, (not necessarily on this website) pilgrims may avoid certain cities, but then stay in common room albergues , where people they will share a room with not the greatest of ventilation, are likely coming from the very cities these other pilgrims are trying to avoid…for whatever reason.
Honestly, if I could not afford a private room, I too, even with weary bones, would also sleep under the stars or on a open air porch, or camp… before sleeping in an common room albergue….vaccinated or not. As September approaches, if we can still get in (?) trying to stay in a cheap albergue may be a very costly decision with this Delta variant.
Thank you! Your updates are invaluable!I don't know where to put this and how important it actually is in the end but here is the latest concerning the French pass sanitaire if you are vaccinated and: you don't have French nationality; you don't live in France; you don't have an EU Digital Covid certificate.
There are two apps:
With this introduction, here's the current situation (8 August) for foreign visitors in France:
- TousAntiCovid app which you have on your mobile phone and were you store your vaccination certificate if issued by France or issued by an EU+ country. Their certificates comply with the required digital norms.
- TousAntiCovid Verif app that anyone can have on their mobile phone and that is used to check whether a digital certificate that conforms to the norm is authentic and not a fake.
The idea of the whole system is that you do not only show your vaccination certificate to someone but that the person can verify that your certificate is authentic and not a fake.
Sources: French government websites, French government Twitter feeds.
- EU DCC: No problems. TousAntiCovid and TousAntiCovid Verif work fine.
- NHS England and Wales: TousAntiCovid works for certificates issued by the NHS. TousAntiCovid Verif - they are still working on interoperability.
- Scotland, Northern Ireland, and similar: Contact la cellule dédiée Passe sanitaire du ministère pour obtenir un document. Not sure what it means. Probably contact the Health Service where you live.
- USA, Canada, all other non-EU+ countries
- You have a French passport: You can write to a dedicated email address of the French government; there are different email addresses depending on your country of residence. You provide a copy of your passport, proof of residence and proof of vaccination and ask them to convert your vaccination information into something compatible with the French health pass system. Start the process as early as you can, it may take time.
- You do not have a French passport: You will have to wait and see until a system for interoperability and verification is put in place by the French administration. They are working on it.
My gut feeling: Having a proper pass sanitaire as proof of your vaccination will save you hassle. NHS proof, CDC proof etc. are accepted for the time being. It remains to be seen how important it will be in the end for foreign visitors in France to have a genuine pass sanitaire. By September, but that is really just a gut feeling, the EU Commission may have set up a system of recognition of vaccination proofs issued by the UK, the USA and other non-EU countries that is valid for the whole EU+.
A month on, is that still the case?I think it is a responsible approach to not go to the center of the 5th wave epicenter which unfortunately Leon is at that moment,
Want to upload your UK NHS Covid pass to an EU-accepted app?
1. Download "Covid Tracker Ireland"
2. Open the PDF of your UK certificate
3. Scan the QR code from your *second* vaccination into the app
4. It'll instantly provide you with an EU certificate.
It apparently also works with the official French "TousAntiCovid" app. This app works in French and in English.Download "Covid Tracker Ireland"
It apparently also works with the official French "TousAntiCovid" app
Not so much anymore, Reverend. The infection curve in Castilia y Leon is nicely flattening. Actually at this moment there are more people sick in Galicia (1 in every 150 inhabitants) than in Castilia y Leon (1 in 170 is sick with covid). The data taken from coronalevel.comA month on, is that still the case?
Thank you for all you digging on this issue. I sent mine by email this morning. I am hoping that having a one way travel ticket will not be a problem. I added a note that i was walking the Camino and the date i would walk out of France. We shall see. CheersThere is now a procedure to apply for a French health pass / pass sanitaire when you have been vaccinated in the USA, in Canada or in other countries outside of the EU. You will find all the necessary information here:
Applying for a COVID certificate if you were vaccinated abroad (procedure for non-EU tourists)
There is an application form to Convert a Foreign Vaccination Certificate into a French Covid Certificate that you need to fill in, a number of electronic copies of documents that you need to provide and you need to send it all to one of the following email addresses, depending on where you live:
- United States: area1.covid-pass@diplomatie.gouv.fr
- Canada: area2.covid-pass@diplomatie.gouv.fr
- Rest of world: area3.covid-pass@diplomatie.gouv.fr
e-mail subject lines must be set out as follows:COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE / SURNAME First name / Date of arrival in France in the format DD-MM-YYThe website says that applications received through other means will not be processed.
The website says that you should send your application as soon as you know your travel dates if you are arriving in France in summer 2021. They say that they will be doing their utmost to process applications as quickly as possible.
Good luck!
Great to hear that you received your French health pass code and that the approval of your application for conversion of your foreign non-EU vaccination pass to the French pass sanitaire did not take long.Got my pass this morning....
Bonjour,
A la suite de votre demande, nous vous prions de trouver ci-joint votre passe sanitaire.
Cordialement.
Hello, Please find attached your covid pass.
Best regards,
Fully vaccinated travelersFrom November, travellers will be able to enter the USA from the UK, EU, and Schengen countries.
In the Netherlands we start tomorrow with the use off the Corona check app in more places , in cafés , restaurants, cultural events to mention a few .
And you will need the app in cafés and restaurants that are located in stores .
People don't need the app outside but when you need to go to the toilet inside you will have to show the app.
Masks will only be mandatory in public transport.
In principle, hospitals and the like no longer have a mask obligation, but you see in the hospital that some departments still ask to wear a mask. Marianne has several hospital appointments for various examinations, so we still regularly wear our masks, especially in elevators. Besides the protests, the use of the app has an additional advantage, namely that the vaccinations have risen sharply in the last two weeks. According to the ministry, we are now at almost 84% fully vaccinated. We'll see where it all goes, we just stay careful.No masks anymore when visiting hospitals, residential care homes , doctorspractices or physio?
In Belgium this will still be the case per the 1st of October. Also public transport but not in bars or restaurants. For Flanders that is.
Plus extra rules for Brussels and parts of Wallonia seeing the vaccination rate is unfortunately lower still.
Proof of vaccination to have a pee ? It's insane.but when you need to go to the toilet inside you will have to show the app
It's not , you need the app to go inside for whatever reason .Proof of vaccination to have a pee ? It's insane.
Did you read it in today's Telegraph?The UK is likely to join the EU pass scheme.
Ohh ... the Express just picked up what the Telegraph had written first. If you didn't read the original article then you probably don't know that the Telegraph wrote that the UK formally applied to join the EU scheme on July 28, and technical work has been carrying on ever since. Not exactly breaking news ...Express, not Telegraph.
No, today's news is that the EU and the UK seem to have reached an agreement to move ahead with the project.Ohh ... the Express just picked up what the Telegraph had written first. If you didn't read the original article then you probably don't know that the Telegraph wrote that the UK formally applied to join the EU scheme on July 28, and technical work has been carrying on ever since. Not exactly breaking news ...
In Southern European legal systems, it usually means "if they recognise ours (Portugal or EU), we'll recognise theirs". So it may be more than those 16 non-EU countries, it may be those countries allowing travel (with covid pass or without) from Portugal, including those 16.What does "under reciprocal conditions" even mean in practical terms???
Somewhat surprised at how things are currently unfolding, but this looks pretty good :
What's surprising is that the 2021-2022 respiratory disease season should be starting now in Northern Europe (starts later in Mediterranean Europe), but numbers are low there now (Ireland and some Baltic States excepted).I agree! I'm really encouraged by the high vaccination rates in Spain and Portugal. The map of my country looks very dark right now.
The following belongs to it aswel,EU Nationals may no longer travel to the UK using an ID card, but are required to use a Passport.
Some more details on this.Fully vaccinated Australians are to be permitted to travel in and out of the country for non-essential reasons ... from November onwards.
So happy for the Commonwealth….Some more details on this.
It concerns not only Australian nationals but also non-Oz permanent residents of the country.
Other nationals to be allowed entry & exit will first be skilled workers ; and students enrolled in Universities there (which would allow some to do a Camino).
Non-Australians not resident in the country will not be able to travel in and out for reasons of tourism etc until 2022.
However, Australia is now considering permitting open, quarantine-free travel between Oz and certain individual countries, starting with New Zealand, on a case-by-case basis.
I found the answer. All I had to doWhat does "under reciprocal conditions" even mean in practical terms???
Well, in fact the Portuguese/EU certificate is recognised by the UK.I found the answer. All I had to dois scroll down on VisitPortugal and there it was:
Certificates issued by third countries, under reciprocal conditions[Detailed description of the information that these certificates must contain]Non-reciprocity in the recognition by third countries of the validity of the EU COVID Digital Certificate issued by Portugal, in the modalities of vaccination or recovery certificates, prevents the recognition of the validity of certificates issued by these third countries.That pretty much rules out the NHS Covid pass and the CDC card for the time being.
BTW, I've been looking every other day for news that the European Commission has published a decision concerning the equivalence of the NHS vaccination certificate, with mutual recognition, but I haven't seen anything so far. So in short: no news and no change. As before, holders of US and UK vaccination certificates must test before they travel to Portugal.
There's a difference between a country, such as Portugal, recognising a type of vaccine as a valid vaccine in view of applying their entry requirements on foreign travellers and a country recognising a type of certificate as a valid certificate in view of applying their entry requirements on a foreign traveller. We ought to be clear about this because it is actually of practical interest for readers and we should avoid contributing to the general confusion that reigns:Well, in fact the Portuguese/EU certificate is recognised by the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countri...ccination-programmes-and-proof-of-vaccination
So, with the caveat that some vaccines approved in the UK are not so in Portugal, meaning that some vaccinated will have to travel as if unvaccinated, reciprocity with the UK exists from the POV of the Portuguese measure.
Except that this is what "reciprocal conditions" means in this context, legally :There's a difference between a country, such as Portugal, recognising a type of vaccine as a valid vaccine in view of applying their entry requirements on foreign travellers and a country recognising a type of certificate as a valid certificate in view of applying their entry requirements on a foreign traveller. We ought to be clear about this
Our layperson's interpretation of texts on official websites and in foreign laws notwithstanding, the question still remains and the correct answer is of practical interest to the UK traveller to Spain. It could save hassle, time and money: 1 or 2? Test or NHS Covid certificate?Except that this is what "reciprocal conditions" means in this context, legally :
That if a country recognises ours, we can recognise theirs.
Out of curiosity, I checked the relevant law:Albergues will be able to increase their capacity to 75 percent, both public and private albergues, under the condition that they request proof of a Covid certificate of those persons who want to stay in the albergue [= certificate about complete vaccination / negative PCR or antigen test result not older than 72 h resp. 48h / recovery from Covid-19 infection ]
Bear in mind that this is not someone's personal opinion that you could argue with. These are statements in a regional law, and you can't argue with that.
Amen. And please don't air your disagreement here, evrn if you want to. There's no point.You may want to air your disagreement or your disapproval but if you aren't eligible as a voter in the region and cannot act on it, then there's not much that you can do in practical terms, other than perhaps simply stay away.
Wow. Wouldn't it be great to get this data? Covid or not, I know where on that CO² continuum I'd want to stay.A pilot test carried out in albergues in Galicia to check the air quality of the rooms where pilgrims sleep, with continuous measurement of the level of carbon dioxide (CO-2), showed measurements ranging from 404 ppm (parts per million) of CO-2 to 3246 ppm, with a median of 1161.5 ppm at 00:00 hours, and from 405 ppm to 4632 ppm, with a median of 1294 ppm at 4:00 hours, indicating that the limits at which it is considered necessary to ventilate (800 ppm) are exceeded.
Spain Adds Portugal, Hungary & Several Other Regions to Its High-Risk Areas List
Sounds surprising at first because Portugal is reported as one of the countries with the highest vaccination rates in the world so why would it now all of a sudden be "added" by Spain to their list of risk areas within the EU ???the new categorisation of countries and regions is effective from today, October 11, and will remain in force until October 17, SchengenVisaInfo.com reports.
Agreed, but let's wait until we get some definitive updates on the schedule.Not really lockdown/reopening business -- but a reminder that starting next year, travelling to Europe from countries & with nationalities not needing a visa will require an ETIAS certificate.
This probably deserves its own thread.
This is one of those things that I am completely content to leave in the hands of Kathar1na and others.Agreed, but let's wait until we get some definitive updates on the schedule.
And just get your boosters as soon as you can. That simple act will at the very least make your life easier and the rest of us safer.pilgrims should be advised that their local vaxx requirements may not be sufficient for the French in future, so that those wishing to start in France and travelling from outside the EU/Schengen might want to exercise some caution prior to expenditures.
I cannot comment towards medical advice to others.And just get your boosters as soon as you can. That simple act will at the very least make your life easier and the rest of us safer.
Hi Kanga! Just to clear up any potential misunderstandings. Australia has been a 'Not at Risk' country for the Spanish government and under Spanish law since 22 July 2020 (2020 is not a typo). Without interruption.That information is incorrect. Australia is one of the countries NOT AT RISK. See the Spanish Government website here.
This also is incorrect. My NHS app was downloaded on September 25th and accepted by Spanish frontier authorities on that date. It then automatically "reloads" and the date extends by one month whenever needed - so, when I checked to see this morning, it is now valid until December 4th (which is just over 6 months from my second vaccination). I'm not expecting to leave Spain until about December 10th and not expecting any problems.If you are in the UK and have been vaccinated, your NHS pass is only recognised in the EU if downloaded November 1st or later.
People who obtained their certificate earlier than that should therefore obtain a fresh copy.
Perhaps I could have phrased the post that everyone seems to be piling on differently, and FWIW I decided not to include a phrase about how the list of countries given was likely to be expanded in rather short order, as that would have been speculative on the day, but it's still not a post about the specific case of travel from Australia to Spain only. There are major pilgrimage routes in the UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Italy, Vatican City State, and some lesser travelled routes in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, and elsewhere.There are no reciprocity requirements.
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