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Thanks for the help. I have looked at the outdoor gear lab reviews, but it leaves me with some questions, as do your posts.
First, I'm not going to try the nordic pole or pacer pole option at this point, because I like what I have had up till now.
I don't understand what the shock absorption feature is and why it would have a "blunt response" -- what does that mean?
I prefer adjustable length, at least I think I do -- isn't the fixed length much more limiting for up and downhill changes?
Making progress! Laurie
Isn't a pole simply that. A pole? ( apologies Laurie)!
I agree with this that a pole is just a pole. We realised that we needed poles and bought 2 each at the Chinese bazar shops along the way. They were 5 euros each, were adjustable for the ups and downs. AndThey were perfectly adequate for the trip. I went into a sports shop and they were charging 20 euros EACH for the very same poles!! Keep your money in your pockets folks for something else!Isn't a pole simply that. A pole? ( apologies Laurie)!
My first pole was a wooden one, bought from a local, who was selling them over his garden wall. First day out of Roncesvalles.I agree with this that a pole is just a pole. We realised that we needed poles and bought 2 each at the Chinese bazar shops along the way. They were 5 euros each, were adjustable for the ups and downs. AndThey were perfectly adequate for the trip. I went into a sports shop and they were charging 20 euros EACH for the very same poles!! Keep your money in your pockets folks for something else!
As a retro pilgrim though, I must admit that I use a wooden walking staff.
Just my preferences: Adjustable length (I frequently adjust mine based on up or down hill), and Cam-lock style (after a bad failure of the twist lock style, and annoying grindng when muddy even when it did 'mostly work', and carbone fiber for light weight.... Sounds like you have a nice Santa!
hello laurie -Well, since I too am a retro pilgrim, I think maybe the best thing is for me to get the new version of the same old pole, which is aptly dubbed the Leki Makalu
Retro poles! Seriously, though, I need two sticks, I know that, and I have had no problems with the ones I have, so why make this overly complicated?
But maybe I'll take a peek at the Black Diamond......
http://www.backcountry.com/leki-mak...ferralID=ca83d574-9c68-11e5-b0f7-0050569451e5
Thanks, everyone!
I am a big fan of the black diamond z poles - they are adjustable and pretty darn light, but best of all they fold up small enough to go inside a 38l pack, making it easier to wander through the airport (I took the pack with the poles inside as carry-on luggage on Air Canada). To be honest, I don't adjust them much at all. Last year on the LePuy route, I opened them up in LePuy and folded them up in SJPP.
I bought a friend a pair of the super light ones that are not adjustable. She loves them. They are imperceptibly light, though they do not adjust. The set sizes didn't work for me or I would have bought some for myself.
http://www.mec.ca/product/5034-174/...womens/?h=10+4294966812&f=10+50046+4294966812.
Mla1, you were lucky to get thru security with your poles in your carry-on. I believe almost all airports/airlines restrict walking poles to checked luggage only.
Mla1, you were lucky to get thru security with your poles in your carry-on. I believe almost all airports/airlines restrict walking poles to checked luggage only.
Viranani, are these the poles you have? I can't find any brand "exped", but saw these -- http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008CK5JHY/?tag=casaivar02-20Hi, Laurie,
I have twist-lock Exped poles I got on sale at REI; I actually like them better than the Black Diamond Z-poles a friend has. They're a tad heavier but infinitely adjustable. And they were a fraction of the price.
(Oh, and I crashed on top of them in a rather inelegant faceplant and they neither bent nor snapped...
and the handles are red with a cross on the top--very pilgrimage appropriate and easy to find in the albergue pole bucket!)
(Pssst, Laurie...you're a mod and so you can do anything you like.I guess it's ok if I take my own thread off topic.
Mla1, you were lucky to get thru security with your poles in your carry-on. I believe almost all airports/airlines restrict walking poles to checked luggage only.
Is it possible to buy Black Diamond or Lyke poles in SJPP?
Also, just want to add, the FLZ's sections should lock into place. After you have them together pull up on the top section until the small silver pin pops out. They lock together with enough force that I stopped pulling when I got to the point where I was afraid I'd break them if I kept it up. (Of course there may have been design changes over the years). Not trying to pitch these as a mountaineering pole, but just a good, light weight, value. I can snap a picture if my description doesn't make sense.
Also, just want to add, the FLZ's sections should lock into place. After you have them together pull up on the top section until the small silver pin pops out. They lock together with enough force that I stopped pulling when I got to the point where I was afraid I'd break them if I kept it up. (Of course there may have been design changes over the years). Not trying to pitch these as a mountaineering pole, but just a good, light weight, value. I can snap a picture if my description doesn't make sense.
JBear, I'll look for that pin, thanks for the advice.
As to the remarks of those who carry their poles on board. According to the TSA, it's not allowed. http://blog.tsa.gov/2014/05/tsa-travel-tips-travel-tips-for.html. I don't like the rule, but it's a rule, and that's good enough for me. Where does it end otherwise? Do you try to sneak onboard bottles of water and pocketknives too? I'm not willing to risk having them confiscated - my poles get checked.
Mla1, when you say the z poles are adjustable, what do you mean? The little video on REI's website says only that there is a secondary grip type thing below the grip, which you can use when you're walking up steep steps. Given my knee problems, I really want poles that I can lengthen for the downs. If I want poles that can be lengthened, does that mean I have to go for twist rather than zpoles?I am a big fan of the black diamond z poles - they are adjustable and pretty darn light, but best of all they fold up small enough to go inside a 38l pack, making it easier to wander through the airport (I took the pack with the poles inside as carry-on luggage on Air Canada). To be honest, I don't adjust them much at all. Last year on the LePuy route, I opened them up in LePuy and folded them up in SJPP.
I bought a friend a pair of the super light ones that are not adjustable. She loves them. They are imperceptibly light, though they do not adjust. The set sizes didn't work for me or I would have bought some for myself.
http://www.mec.ca/product/5034-174/...womens/?h=10+4294966812&f=10+50046+4294966812.
Eureka! Steve, you answered my question before I asked it. Adjustable AND z-lock all in one. Hooray!Walking north from Porto along the coast is mostly wonderful new boardwalk. Nearing Vila do Conde, I tripped and fell on a loose board on an older section of boardwalk. Down I went! (PLOP!) Luckily no major harm done, but one of the aluminum poles bent as I fell on it. These poles were borrowed from my son. I'll be buying my own set (a Christmas present to myself) and decided, based on this experience, not to buy carbon poles due to its brittleness. Strength and light weight aside, I feel it would have snapped on my fall. The aluminum mostly straightened out. Don't want shocks. I've seen the outdoorgearlab site - very informative. Based on a recommendation from my son (who works at REI) I will get Leki Micro Vario Ti COR-TEC. Sometimes the "Z" poles do not adjust, but these are adjustable. A bonus is they will fit in the backpack easily for airline checking.
I have used a couple of different brands with internal metal springs, and even with reputable brands, the spring material will eventually lose its 'bounce'. This is a natural outcome of metal fatigue when the spring is compressed repeatedly. I have never had a pole where the spring has corroded - perhaps I go through them too quickly. Of course, if you just fairy tap, rather than put any real pressure on poles, you may never see this effect! I now avoid the cheap and cheerful end of the market - some no-name and cheaper brands have had a quite short effective life - days and weeks rather than months and years.One quick thing for those that have, or acquire, trekking poles with shock absorption: The spring assembly can--and will--corrode and potentially lock up. Then it is just dead, useless weight. I had this happen with my old Leki poles. So, advice: If they get wet, loosen and pull out the section, clean, and then lightly oil the spring mechanism. Reassemble, of course.
I think that Laurie ( the OP) knows me well enough to understand that my comment ' a pole is a pole' was said with a certain amount of 'tongue in the cheek'.I guess most of you will not have tried Pacer Poles otherwise you would never say "A pole is just a pole"
I strongly advise that if you ever come across anybody walking with them you ask to try them.
You will find them a totally different experience.
I have used a couple of different brands with internal metal springs, and even with reputable brands, the spring material will eventually lose its 'bounce'. This is a natural outcome of metal fatigue when the spring is compressed repeatedly. I have never had a pole where the spring has corroded - perhaps I go through them too quickly. Of course, if you just fairy tap, rather than put any real pressure on poles, you may never see this effect! I now avoid the cheap and cheerful end of the market - some no-name and cheaper brands have had a quite short effective life - days and weeks rather than months and years.
A different approach has been taken by BD in their latest designs, with a compressible elastomer collar providing the compression. I bought a pair of these, and one of the collars collapsed after a few weeks. BD replaced the pole, and the pair have now been going strong now for over 18 months.
The other poles that I have used recently are the BD Distance FLZ (aluminium shaft and ribbed 'rubber' handgrip). With a little modification to the tip, I have used these with the regular BD rubber tips. This allows me to have the metal tip fitted to the pole and cover it quickly with a relatively inexpensive rubber tip when on the road. Let me say that the FLZs are unlikely to ever become my 'go to' pole. There are just has too many niggling faults for me to have faith in the design.
My other two sets of poles are from Komperdel and BD. I am not sure which of these I will walk with next year. The Komperdell are an unsprung carbon pole, and work quite well in the bush, but I prefer the sprung BD aluminum poles for urban use. Both have variations on a flick lock mechanism, and both have required adjustments to make them work properly. I don't see that as unusual, but it is a clear disadvantage of that locking approach. However, I am told that these are much easier to adjust for those with grip problems such as might be caused by arthritis.
For the Pacer pole aficionados, I have not forgotten my commitment to try these when I get an opportunity.
The FLZ, which I would assume stands for Flip Lock 'Z', are an adjustable pole with the top section having an adjustable section.Mla1, when you say the z poles are adjustable, what do you mean? The little video on REI's website says only that there is a secondary grip type thing below the grip, which you can use when you're walking up steep steps. Given my knee problems, I really want poles that I can lengthen for the downs. If I want poles that can be lengthened, does that mean I have to go for twist rather than zpoles?
Very valid point- if you have a set of poles that you really like, or cost enough that you're worried about the TSA confiscating them, checked bag is the way to go. What I have been told by TSA agents, combined with what the actual CFR says, I'll say you are good to go if you have any of the folding poles equipped with a rubber tip. I, personally, make sure I have screw-in rubber tip if I am going to carry them on board. What I've been told, multiple times is the z style poles are not for skiing, and therefore ok. Solid poles, that look like a ski pole never are, and I have been told that the twist lock style ones are on shaky ground.I hadn't meant to accuse Laurie or Grayland of anything. My comments re: sneaking items onboard, were addressed to the general audience to perhaps see the slippery slope in "believing the rules might not apply". As someone currently in a cast and on crutches, I can't in good faith see how trekking poles could be considered mobility aids and not recreational devices, which are almost indistinguishable from the prohibited ski poles. By taking a checkable duffle with her, Laurie mitigates the risk of losing her poles, others should be so aware.
Mla1, when you say the z poles are adjustable, what do you mean? The little video on REI's website says only that there is a secondary grip type thing below the grip, which you can use when you're walking up steep steps. Given my knee problems, I really want poles that I can lengthen for the downs. If I want poles that can be lengthened, does that mean I have to go for twist rather than zpoles?
This is not difficult. I wind a strip of fabric backed tape (gaffer tape) around the tip. Don't make it too wide, otherwise it won't be possible to remove and replace the standard FLZ tips. You can see the final result on the left with a BD rubber tip in place, and on the right with the tip removed. When putting the tips on, turn them in the direction that you wound on the tape, otherwise it will start to life the tape. You can see I haven't always got this right, and a short strip of tape has already lifted.DougFitz, I'd be interested to see/learn how you modified the tip. I prefer to have a proper rubber tip on my poles when walking on pavement.
I also have a pair of the adjustable poles. The come in three or four size ranges. each with about 20cm of length adjustment. For example, mine adjust from 105 to 125 cm in total length. This appears to be the least compromised of the Z-poles designs.The FLZ, which I would assume stands for Flip Lock 'Z', are an adjustable pole with the top section having an adjustable section.
This is the link to the ones I have:
http://m.rei.com/product/879954/bla...D=120217890000757338&lsft=cm_mmc:cse_PLA_GOOG
There might be some variation in the throat diameter between Leki and BD rubber walking tips. I didn't find the BD tips sufficiently secure, and felt they would slip off far too easily when used on the FLZ poles. I generally use the BD tips bushwalking when there is a much greater chance of them coming off than on urban walks. For pavement, I have been using the Swix walking foot tip.The Leki slip on ones? If so, they fit over the BD hard rubber tips very well. They stayed nice and snug on mine. Would slip them on at the edge of town, when I hit pavement. I left them on until I'd hit mud. I worried about the mud pulling them off.
Hi, Doug,I also have a pair of the adjustable poles. The come in three or four size ranges. each with about 20cm of length adjustment. For example, mine adjust from 105 to 125 cm in total length. This appears to be the least compromised of the Z-poles designs.
As to your question about the difference between 'women's' and 'men's' poles - you will not be surprised to learn that the women's were purple and the men's were either blue or black (blue and black?). Heaven forbid that men and women use the same colour hiking poles!
I have the Black Diamond Distance FLZ 105-125cm.Hi, Doug,
What brand do you have? The BD z-poles have two sizes, 105-120 and 20-140. I would really like to have that extra 5 cm option with the shorter ones because my real concern is steep downhills.
I have the Black Diamond Distance FLZ 105-125cm.
It appears to me that all the differences are in the grip and strap. There is a different attachment method for the strap, and the Alpine variant has a more substantial fabric strap. This seems to add about 145gm to the weight of a pair of the Alpine poles.Thanks, Doug. This product differentiation is going to drive me crazy.
Doug has the Black Diamond DISTANCE FLZ
Mla1 has the Black Diamond ALPINE FLZ
So what in the world is the difference between the Distance poles and the Alpine poles?
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/compare?category=trekking-poles
Hi Laurie, I am not sure what they mean by a 'secondary grip'.
ML, look at this picture: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...DffWEaAmWn8P8HAQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&Q=&A=details
The little video I saw on these poles explained that you can drop your hand to that place right below the handle without adjusting the length. Some refer to it as the ability to "choke up." This seems useful for quick changes from flat to ascent, where you want your poles to be shorter. Make sense?
ML, look at this picture: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...DffWEaAmWn8P8HAQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&Q=&A=details
The little video I saw on these poles explained that you can drop your hand to that place right below the handle without adjusting the length. Some refer to it as the ability to "choke up." This seems useful for quick changes from flat to ascent, where you want your poles to be shorter. Make sense?
It also looks like there are two sizes, though REI doesn't use the men vs. women designation for the BD Z poles. Looks like one is 105-120 cm and one is 120-140. I'm almost 5'8 (but slowly shrinking) and remember some times with my Leki poles going above 120, but I guess the best thing to do is to get myself to an REI and get some help. Unfortunately that is not an easy proposition from my little hamlet in the cornfields.
But I take it that the 105-120 is likely to be ok?
If you are using the wrist straps properly, this feature is next to useless. You would have to remove the wrist straps first to lower your grip to the 'extended' portion of the handle. If you are going to do that, you might as well adjust the length of the pole itself. Of course, you could avoid using the wrist strap - the one fundamental design feature that differentiates a technical pole from a long piece of wood - and forego all the benefits of correct technical pole use!ML, look at this picture: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...DffWEaAmWn8P8HAQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&Q=&A=details
The little video I saw on these poles explained that you can drop your hand to that place right below the handle without adjusting the length. Some refer to it as the ability to "choke up." This seems useful for quick changes from flat to ascent, where you want your poles to be shorter. Make sense?
This involves unscrewing the existing tip and screwing in the other version. If the current tip has been screwed on tightly, you might need a pair of pliers to get sufficient leverage to start removing the tip - I did the first time I tried this. The tips themselves are small enough to be easily misplaced. I would recommend fitting the carbide tip, and using a standard rubber tip when you need that. See my earlier entry on this for one way of making the standard tip secure on the smaller diameter FLZ pole end.Now my last question is -- the website says these poles have "interchangeable" carbide and rubber tips. Does that mean that you have to switch back and forth, rather than the much more convenient method of just putting a rubber tip over the metal tip. Thanks so much, I´m getting close. Laurie
Drats! That´s a great price, but they are all out of the 105-125 cm.Laurie, try Sierratradingpost.com and use keycode: ETP5568S at checkout. Should be $51
ps - I would be asking Santa for the Alpine FLZ - it wasn't available in Australia when I got the Distance FLZ, but it appears to be a better design with a relatively small increase in weight.
That's correct. The Distance FLZ strap is attached to a loop of cord that passes through the pole handle. This concentrates any pressure on a relatively small area of the strap, and on mine this area has already started to fray with about six months of infrequent use. In addition, the strap material has begun to fray along its length, where it passes around my wrist. I don't think this will get to the point where the strap is going to fail, but it is annoying that these problems arose so soon after purchasing these poles.Ok, I just decided I would go with the Distance rather than the Alpine. What is better about the design, Doug? I thought it was mainly differences in the strap.
Laurie - do you know if walkng poles are available in Oviedo? Ryanair won't let me take them on the plane - I'll have to buy when I get there!Ok, I just decided I would go with the Distance rather than the Alpine. What is better about the design, Doug? I thought it was mainly differences in the strap.
Like Peregrina2000 above^^^, I have carried my z-poles on board in my pack for many years. Again, this is in the U.S. , but with transfers in Europe in different cities.
My wife does the same thing with her Pacer Poles.
I check my pack with poles inside on return flights as I am not concerned that they arrive with me at home. the Santiago airport is a no-go with carry on sticks, but is the only one that I know of for certain.
Like Laurie, I do not know of anyone who has been denied from any US airport.
All reports I have heard of denials are " third person" or from Santiago airport. .
This may change if the current problems in California cause a step- up in TSA security.
Calling the TSA or airlines will always get you a "not allowed" answer as that is the easiest thing for them to tell you on the phone. Actual practice over many years is different.
Be sure that you do not have any sharp metal tips showing. Put on the rubber tips and maybe a bit of duct tape if you think it a good idea.
This is just the experience that many of us have had with this subject.
Oviedo has a ton of mountain groups and is surrounded by mountains, so you'll have no problem. Here are a couple that came up on the top of a google search:Laurie - do you know if walkng poles are available in Oviedo? Ryanair won't let me take them on the plane - I'll have to buy when I get there!
S.
This approach has never made a lot of sense to me. If you have the poles, they are beneficial when being used - whether you are out in the country or in towns and cities. They are of no benefit and just a dead weight if they are in your pack. Get a good walking tip and a couple of replacements - if you haven't worn out a walking tip, you are not using the poles effectively to reduce the load on your lower joints.How about just one pole as compared with two? I have a feeling i'm going to be carrying them most of the way. Do people walk without poles. I have two good knees and feel like this might be just extra weight to carry..
This approach has never made a lot of sense to me. If you have the poles, they are beneficial when being used - whether you are out in the country or in towns and cities. They are of no benefit and just a dead weight if they are in your pack. Get a good walking tip and a couple of replacements - if you haven't worn out a walking tip, you are not using the poles effectively to reduce the load on your lower joints.
I have also some people say they only carry them for emergencies, so they have them in their pack. The only time poles help in an 'emergency' is when they are in your hands. Otherwise they will just be an addition to the weight you are carrying that will add to the impact of any fall.
Did you see many people walking without poles. If feel like I'm being a sheep and just taking what everyone else is taking. I have never hiked with a pole before. Can I do it without them? I will be turnng 60 this April. Im in good shape without knee or ankle problems. Anyone out there that did their Camino without poles?This approach has never made a lot of sense to me. If you have the poles, they are beneficial when being used - whether you are out in the country or in towns and cities. They are of no benefit and just a dead weight if they are in your pack. Get a good walking tip and a couple of replacements - if you haven't worn out a walking tip, you are not using the poles effectively to reduce the load on your lower joints.
I have also some people say they only carry them for emergencies, so they have them in their pack. The only time poles help in an 'emergency' is when they are in your hands. Otherwise they will just be an addition to the weight you are carrying that will add to the impact of any fall.
How about just one pole as compared with two? I have a feeling i'm going to be carrying them most of the way. Do people walk without poles. I have two good knees and feel like this might be just extra weight to carry..
Thank you everyone. I have some old cheap poles that I have never really used. I will dig them out and take the wild trail up by our Cabin to see if I even know how to use them. I appreciate all the help.Poles are completely optional. There are many people walking without poles, and many walking with them in their pack or using them ineffectively. What amazes me is that people will invest their money in poles, but will not make the small companion investment of their time in learning to use them properly. If you don't think you are going to use them, don't even buy them in the first place. If you do think you will use them, learn to use them properly.
I never use poles at home, and initially I thought I would feel like an idiot. That's why I got the lightest foldable ones - I really wasn't committed to them. However, I would not now attempt the camino without them - they help my balance (especially since I am unnaturally top-heavy due to the backpack), help my posture to be straight and symmetrical, and also probably ease the impact on feet and joints. I consider them essential for descending some slopes that are slippery with water, mud, leaves, or loose rocks.Did you see many people walking without poles. If feel like I'm being a sheep and just taking what everyone else is taking. I have never hiked with a pole before. Can I do it without them? I will be turnng 60 this April. Im in good shape without knee or ankle problems. Anyone out there that did their Camino without poles?
Thanks. I will practice at home to avoid looking like an idiot and breaking my neck while using them improperly!I never use poles at home, and initially I thought I would feel like an idiot. That's why I got the lightest foldable ones - I really wasn't committed to them. However, I would not now attempt the camino without them - they help my balance (especially since I am unnaturally top-heavy due to the backpack), help my posture to be straight and symmetrical, and also probably ease the impact on feet and joints. I consider them essential for descending some slopes that are slippery with water, mud, leaves, or loose rocks.
How about just one pole as compared with two? I have a feeling i'm going to be carrying them most of the way. Do people walk without poles. I have two good knees and feel like this might be just extra weight to carry..
Did you see many people walking without poles. If feel like I'm being a sheep and just taking what everyone else is taking.
Did you see many people walking without poles. If feel like I'm being a sheep and just taking what everyone else is taking. I have never hiked with a pole before. Can I do it without them? I will be turnng 60 this April. Im in good shape without knee or ankle problems. Anyone out there that did their Camino without poles?
You might find the guidebook at http://www.helinox.com.au/australian-bushwalkers-guide-to-trekking-poles.php useful.Thanks. I will practice at home to avoid looking like an idiot and breaking my neck while using them improperly!
Good advice Annette. Otherwise there is also the 'stick' variety which the pilgrims of old used.I agree with this that a pole is just a pole. We realised that we needed poles and bought 2 each at the Chinese bazar shops along the way. They were 5 euros each, were adjustable for the ups and downs. AndThey were perfectly adequate for the trip. I went into a sports shop and they were charging 20 euros EACH for the very same poles!! Keep your money in your pockets folks for something else!
Santa wants to bring me a new set of hiking poles. My Leki Makalu poles are 15 years old and I don't think it's worth it to replace the metal tip. The cork handles are pretty yukky. Anyway, I started to search for poles and found there is now such a huge variety that it is almost paralyzing.
I've read good things about the Black Diamond Alpine Carbon or Leki Micro Vario Carbon (really, you need four words to name your product?) But I'd be interested in knowing what the differences are among all these many different options and what the advantages and disadvantages are.
In particular, I've seen some mention of ergonomic features and shock absorption. No clue how those affect the pole. Thanks, experts! Buen camino, Laurie
I agree with this that a pole is just a pole. We realised that we needed poles and bought 2 each at the Chinese bazar shops along the way. They were 5 euros each, were adjustable for the ups and downs. AndThey were perfectly adequate for the trip. I went into a sports shop and they were charging 20 euros EACH for the very same poles!! Keep your money in your pockets folks for something else!
Good advice Annette. Otherwise there is also the 'stick' variety which the pilgrims of old used.
I walked the Camino this fall with Leki's - brilliant in my humble estimation! Easily folded or extended and weighed nothing.My dad has a pair of Lekis with shock absorbers, and he complains that they rattle. Personally, I reckon that you don't need shock absorbers if you use rubber tips and use the wrist straps properly.
Of the two main brands, I find that Americans tend to prefer Black Diamonds and Europeans prefer Lekis -- perhaps because they're marginally cheaper on their own respective continents.
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