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Are you talking about attending Mass or taking communion? As a very non-practicing Catholic, I do the former, but not the latter.Hi sjf...very interesting question. I'm not a RC but Anglican by birth and choice. I took Mass every time I could on the CF even when it was announced it was only for RC's. But I walked with non RC's that attended services but didn't take Mass.
So I believe that the choice is yours.
I read the thread that Laurie suggested that has good discussion in it.
I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?
If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
Non-Catholics on pilgrimage to Santiago may, conditionally, attend the Mass during their pilgrimage.
The first condition is lack of access to their own pastors, so that as a measure of mercy, they may fulfil their Sunday obligation at a Catholic Mass.
The second condition concerns Holy Communion -- they may only take Communion if they believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Eucharist ; this used to technically prevent attending Mass, until Pope Martin V ruled otherwise many centuries ago. It is quite exceptional for non-Catholics to be able to take Communion like this BTW. Also, in any case, Communion is not possible in a state of unconfessed mortal sin.
Safest bet would be to attend the Mass, but refrain from Communion. Or you could always go to Confession !
I have been on the Camino and the Chemin de St. Jacques four times . Originally as a seeker and then as a pilgrim. I'm a Presbyterian and have always made an effort to seek out the Catholic services. It was those services that helped me to connect with the spiritually of the Camino.I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?
If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
Are you talking about attending Mass or taking communion? As a very non-practicing Catholic, I do the former, but not the latter.
Safest bet would be to attend the Mass, but refrain from Communion. Or you could always go to Confession !
The same canon law which forbids Catholic priests from offering communion to non-Catholics except in extraordinary circumstances also forbids them to offer the other sacraments - including penance and anointing. The way individual priests choose to interpret such rules and then apply them in practice is a far more complicated matter!
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/intercommunion.htm
Well, I can't see this thread lasting much longer, but ... foot pilgrimages to recognised Catholic shrines have in the past been considered as "extraordinary circumstances" (because the pilgrim can be considered to be in the midst of a serious effort of conversion towards the direction of the Church),
At my parish I never ask to see anyone's 'paperwork'. I recite the Invitation to Communion from the Book of Common Prayer (1928), and anyone who can then come in good faith to the rail is offered Communion. If I err I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity.
I'll stack my catholic bona fides up against anybody's, but I also feel that it would be disrespectful for me to enter a Roman church and then knowingly and deliberately violate its 'closed communion' rule.' On the Camino I go to Mass just about every chance I get, but I do not receive. Its more a matter of common courtesy than theology for me. (But I confess that I'm not much of a theologian!)
WWJD
Aramaic. Though this might be my most pedantic post this week...He wouldn't speak in acronyms and if he did they'd be in Hebrew
Aramaic. Though this might be my most pedantic post this week...
More likely Greek in fact, as it was the lingua franca of 1st Century Judea/Israel/Palestine/Syria. Not for nothing is it the language of the New Testament.
But that does not mean that it was the everyday spoken language of the majority of the people in the regions of Judea and Palestine. Rather it means that it was the language of choice for international trade and other cultural interchange between different national groups who might otherwise have no common tongue.
The primary language for most Jewish people in the region at that period was Aramaic: Greek was understood and spoken by a small minority and Hebrew was principally in use as a liturgical and scholarly language rather than for everyday speech.
I am Episcopalian and attended Mass every chance I got. Did not take communion except in places where I asked beforehand if it was okay. In Santiago there may be an Anglican presence. There was a thread on forum about it months ago.
Buen camino.
That thread was in reference to an initiative to look at the possibility of an Anglican presence in Santiago. I have been following this carefully and have heard nothing since then. AFAIK there is no Anglican presence in Santiago unless you are there on one of the occasions when a group of Anglican pilgrims might turn up with a priest or bishop. There are Orthodox services in Santiago but, unless you have Greek or Romanian, that won't be of much help to you.
I think some Lutherans can; Missouri Synod if memory serves. Luther may have started it all, but may have been the first to reconcile!!Also from reading a Roman Catholic is not meant to take communion in a Protestant church and vice versa.
I'm sure that must guarantee historical accuracy! !Aramaic! At least language in Mel Gibson's The Passion.
I'm sure that must guarantee historical accuracy! !
He wouldn't speak in acronyms and if he did they'd be in Hebrew
Thanks, all. Not wanting to weigh in on the "did Jesus speak Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Esperanto" debate, but I do have several final questions since I started this post: what do Anglican residents and volunteers in Santiago do? Are there regular visits from clergy willing to administer the sacraments, if only one knows where to go? Chapel/worship spaces where one might find a visiting priest of this tradition?
Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)
To answer your Question: There is no Anglican Chaplaincy in Santiago and no provision of Eucharist or sacraments to those of that tradition.
I'm actually not convinced that there would be sufficient numbers attending to sustain a ministry - rent and salary for the priest etc, unless this was underwritten some how. I've been proposing a 6 month pilot for some time but alas no ministerial volunteers.
I didn't say Anglicans Only I said I doubted that there would be sufficient numbers attending ( of all denominations) to sustain the ministry. This is based on my experience of providing Mass in English in the Cathedral. But the only real way of knowing is to try it!Your point about numbers is probably true when thinking specifically of Anglicans. However as @rappahannock_rev noted above Anglican sacraments and worship are open to Christians of many different denominations and an Anglican priest could therefore offer a chaplaincy service to a far wider community. I think it unlikely that an Anglican priest who was interested in serving pilgrims in Santiago would see the scope of their ministry in narrow denominational terms.
... Anglican sacraments and worship are open to Christians of many different denominations and an Anglican priest could therefore offer a chaplaincy service to a far wider community. I think it unlikely that an Anglican priest who was interested in serving pilgrims in Santiago would see the scope of their ministry in narrow denominational terms.
Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)
Hi sjf...very interesting question. I'm not a RC but Anglican by birth and choice. I took Mass every time I could on the CF even when it was announced it was only for RC's. But I walked with non RC's that attended services but didn't take Mass.
So I believe that the choice is yours.
I read the thread that Laurie suggested that has good discussion in it.
The rules are clear. No discussion about religion. We allow some leeway so members can gain information. When it gets to the stage that people start expressing opinions about religion, the line is crossed. I have edited some posts.
Well, I suggest you read the rest of the thread and take it up with those who,say he does and are much more knowledgeable than me on the mater. I have nothing more to say on the topic than what I wrote in my first post.I don't agree, the priest has no authority to do so he is doing it on his own and against Cannon law.
You can attend Mass at the English Chapel (Mass in English), in the Catherdral. You must cross your arms across your chest to indicate that you are not catholic, and you will receive a blessing from the Priest instead of the 'body or blood.' Its a lovely, intimate small service which should not be missed.I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?
If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
Hi Terry here from NZ I am 68 catholic since birth and I have only come back to the faith in the last year and talk to god on a daily basis. BUT and it is a big BUT.I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?
If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
Catholics would basically excommunicate themselves by actively participating in such rites, or at the very least deprive themselves of the sacramental Grace
The personal ideology of such even very well-meaning Anglican ministers just does not vanish away the religious duties of Catholics.
Clearly though, the generosity in the Spirit that you refer to is a manifestation of the (genuinely) ecumenical desire for reunification from multiple groups of Christians, and the Camino is and BTW always has been a very strong manifestation of that desire. This is a reason why it is perhaps the only deeply Catholic pilgrimage where non-Catholics are so overtly, warmly, and honestly welcomed in the genuine spirit of pilgrimage, and the genuine Camino spirit.
Not an ecumenism of the dogmatics or the ideology, but an ecumenism of the hiking boot, and the surrender to that which gathers us rather than separates us.
Thanks, all. Not wanting to weigh in on the "did Jesus speak Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek/Latin/Esperanto" debate, but I do have several final questions since I started this post: what do Anglican residents and volunteers in Santiago do? Are there regular visits from clergy willing to administer the sacraments, if only one knows where to go? Chapel/worship spaces where one might find a visiting priest of this tradition?
Or am I left in some sort of medieval penitent mode, hiding out in the back pew of the Cathedral while a service unfolds in a language I do not understand and a priest with whom I am not in communion elevates a host that I can receive through my eyes, but not in my body? (Sorry, it sounds a bit maudlin, but that was the style a mere 500 years ago..)
I don't agree, the priest has no authority to do so he is doing it on his own and against Cannon law.
I too, am a Christian, and Baha'i. Before returning to CF next year, I plan to visit our local RC church and enter into a conversation with our local Priest on this topic as well as a few others.
Will I convert? I doubt it but I am open to offering myself as a local representative / delegate, a bridge between Houses of One God, go on pilgrimage and report back to the Priest of my experiences as few from my town have ever heard of the Camino and even fewer have experienced it.
With deepest respect, these comments are the views of the writer and no one else, and take full responsibility for them, personally. They are not made to esuage the thoughts or beliefs of anyone else, including the party that has started this thread. Should this post be found to be outside the rules of the Forum, please advise and I will remove immediately.
(but do note that the crossed-arms approach will only rarely be understood off the Camino Francese)
You are comfusing the local catholic churches that happen to be on the Camino with what the Santiago Cathedral may want this pilgrimage to be. Sure, walk. Anyone can. But communion is a separate thing, Camino or not.In my Pilgrim’s Credential the last sentence on the ID-page reads: ”La paz de Dios esté con todos y mantenga la Esperanza del Peregrino para bien de la Cristianidad.”
Nothing about Catholicism or Protestantism, only Christianity.
erm, it's likely to be recognised pretty much everywhere, actually
You are comfusing the local catholic churches that happen to be on the Camino with what the Santiago Cathedral may want this pilgrimage to be. Sure, walk. Anyone can. But communion is a separate thing, Camino or not.
Posts on personal beliefs and the validity of certain religious practices continue to require deletion.
The moderator staff has allowed great discretion in allowing the discussion because of the interest of both Catholics and Non-Catholics in the matter of Communion.
The thread will be closed if the posts violating the rules continue.
Please adhere to the forum rules in this matter.
Thanks for understanding.
alas our kilometrages vary on this point. I have had clergy in Ireland, France, and Spain, express to me their perplexity over this. I suspect that the practice is spreading and that it will likely be well understood in a few years but in the meanwhile pilgrims should expect to often experience puzzlement on the part of clerics.
Still, if I could only get some funding (and perhaps a research assistant or two), I would readily interview clerics along various caminos and present my findings!
I've seen it recognized here in NY State, and in Maryland.
Yes. I didn't want to get into too much discussion on this, as it's a bit of a tangent. AFAIK it is a very anglophone North American practice-- I have not seen it in French-speaking RC churches in Canada.
It is getting to be recognized on the Camino Francese owing to the considerable numbers of US and Canadian pilgrims using it. In any event, we would be sensible to follow the advice given by several forum members to go with the flow of local practice, and be considerate of local feelings. It will all work out. The Camino is really rather a big place.
That would explain why I said I didn't understand what that is all about. Have only learned avout this practice on this forum. Never seen here at home, in Spain off Camino (mind you, even on Camino), South America. Since all in attendance are blessed at the end of the mass there really is no need to do this. Sitting quietly in prayer, reflection, os what I have seen.Yes. I didn't want to get into too much discussion on this, as it's a bit of a tangent. AFAIK it is a very anglophone North American practice-- I have not seen it in French-speaking RC churches in Canada.
sjf, I have been following the conversation you began. Because of not wishing to violate forum rules I have refrained from giving either opinion or information. If I could find a way to pm I could send you an article by a prominent and well respected Irish theologian that might help you with your question. I tried once to pm someone but it is still sitting despondently in its box!I'm looking forward to a few days on the Frances in October. I'm a Christian and I see this very much as a pilgrimage, but I'm not a Roman Catholic. What's the routine for non-RC pilgrims and church services? Are the services for other denominations anywhere? Specifically, Anglican/Episcopalian. Or should I just plan to go to the services in the local churches?
If you traveled the Camino as a Christian pilgrim but not a Roman Catholic, what did you do for mass?
You cannot send attachments with PMs. However, you can exchange email addresses by PM (better than posting in the forum) and then send the attachment by email.If I could find a way to pm I could send you an article
Thank you for your help. I have sent a message to someone, and am waiting for a reply. Maybe I will send you one also, double test!@kirkie (and anyone who is having trouble) to use the PM facility on the forum - click on your inbox and "start a new conversation". Fill in the username of the person you wish to message, fill in the conversation subject, write your message, then under your text, press the blue bar with "start a conversation". Maybe you omitted the last? It is easy to do.
An alternate way of doing the same thing is to click on the avatar of the person you want to message, and in the middle of the little avatar box that comes up you should see "start a conversation". Click on that and follow the sequence above.
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might end up being an experience of the transcendent, dare I say, a sacrament
You might try talking with a few priests-- They are very different person to person. (Parishes are different too.) I'd also set up an appointment in advance, as they are busy busy people.
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