Ohiowalker
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances (summer 2015, hopefully!)
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
So, is this another one of those subjects where the answer is that it depends on the person and that some people's feet expand more than others?
I have no financial interest in REI, but I highly recommend them for your major purchases like footwear and backpacks because of their 'no questions asked' return/exchange policy. I assume, based on your forum name, that you're in Ohio, and I see that they have stores in Columbus and Cincinnati. If you're anywhere close, I'd go there, even if it means driving an hour or two. Be sure the clerk you work with understands what you're using the shoes/boots or backpack for, and don't hesitate to ask for their most experienced sales rep in that department. As I mentioned in my previous post, it took me two tries to get the right fit after actually walking a considerable distance. My wife actually went through four pairs of boots to find the right ones, and we both field test at least two different backpacks. (Ever wonder where all that stuff in the REI semi-annual yard sale comes from?)Thanks, everyone. For anyone interested in a really long discussion of feet growing/expanding from long distance hiking (complete with photographs, x-rays, medical textbook info, etc.), here's a link...
...Live and learn...
First, that if my shoes are too big, when descending my feet could push into the end of the shoes over and over, which could cause problems, such as losing toenails. Second, that feet expanding from walking/hiking a lot isn't a cumulative, long term process, but happens anytime you walk many hours, even in one day.
I think you should let the process of selecting the correct size shoes determine what you need, and expect that when you do that they will be larger than your current street shoe size. There has been plenty of good advice about going late in the day, wearing the socks and inserts you will be walking with, and testing the fit.So, now I'll need to figure out whether to go 1/2 size or a full size larger than my current shoe size.
I would only recommend this approach if, like @marbuck, you are already doing a reasonable amount of trekking/hiking/bushwalking. I took this approach in 2010, and by the end of the CF, I needed to take special care tightening my laces so that my toes didn't routinely touch inside the toecaps. I think there is too much risk that you will get too small a size if you only regularly walk in street shoes with dress socks taking this approach. Other than any lengthening of your foot as you walk the distances on the camino, good hiking socks and a liner sock if you are using them will increase the length and breadth of you foot enough to warrant getting your camino footwear properly fitted.I am a Scarpa fan. I wore the same light weight leather boots that I wear when bushwalking in Australia, and the same socks (only one pair at a time) for my entire Camino and I had no problems and no blisters. Buying a boot/shoe larger than you normally wear just for the Camino is in my opinion a mistake that may cause you regrets. There is no difference in long distance bushwalking than there is in walking the Camino. The only difference is the Camino has more road walking but the principle is the same. I also carried my own pack which was a lot lighter than a bushwalking pack. Stick to the size you wear at home.
It might be noteworthy for any prospective Swiss peregrinos that Bächli Bergsport has a similarly customer-friendly policy; in fact they gracefully replaced my Camino-worn shoes after return and 50 days after purchase (!) with a smile.I have no financial interest in REI, but I highly recommend them for your major purchases like footwear and backpacks because of their 'no questions asked' return/exchange policy. I assume, based on your forum name, that you're in Ohio, and I see that they have stores in Columbus and Cincinnati. If you're anywhere close, I'd go there, even if it means driving an hour or two. Be sure the clerk you work with understands what you're using the shoes/boots or backpack for, and don't hesitate to ask for their most experienced sales rep in that department. As I mentioned in my previous post, it took me two tries to get the right fit after actually walking a considerable distance. My wife actually went through four pairs of boots to find the right ones, and we both field test at least two different backpacks. (Ever wonder where all that stuff in the REI semi-annual yard sale comes from?)
I agree with the comments given to the OP, and am uncomfortable with the blanket advice to "buy a size bigger than your normal size." I BUY the right size, taking into account the following
I find that if I buy a shoe that is truly shaped right for my particular foot, then it can accommodate whatever swelling happens. For me, Salomons are the best bet. I'm 66 so maybe my feet have expanded to their max already!
- fit the shoes at the end of a day after a long walk
- fit with the inner sole you intend to use
- if you like thick socks, try with them, although I finalize the sock selection after the shoe
- when in doubt between 2 sizes, get the larger one.
I ensure that my boots allow adequate room for toe wiggling, but I do not buy a too-big shoe or boot.
I've heard of compeed, but don't know how it should be used. When should it be removed, or does it fall off or disintegrate on its own at some point?Should read COMPEED (SORRY)
[/QUOTE]I've heard of compeed, but don't know how it should be used. When should it be removed, or does it fall off or disintegrate on its own at some point?
CompeedI've heard of compeed, but don't know how it should be used. When should it be removed, or does it fall off or disintegrate on its own at some point?
Except when walking on flint or hot bitumen or concrete or white pebbles or cow shit - unless you are used to going barefoot. I usually wear shoes so I need soft grass or dirt or sand to happily go barefoot. I could have done it as a child but a lifetime of enclosed feet has made me soft.In reflexology the arches are related to the abdomen. your arches flattening are because your abdomen is weak. If one walks barefoot to some degree and avoids bad shoes the arch issue diminishes. I recommend that wherever possible take the shoes and socks off and walk as far as you can barefoot. Its delicious
Is there any evidence that reflexology is an effective treatment for any medical condition? It might be that walking barefoot is worthwhile, but I am not sure that it is explained by some linkage with the abdomen.In reflexology the arches are related to the abdomen. your arches flattening are because your abdomen is weak. If one walks barefoot to some degree and avoids bad shoes the arch issue diminishes. I recommend that wherever possible take the shoes and socks off and walk as far as you can barefoot. Its delicious
Is there any evidence that reflexology is an effective treatment for any medical condition? It might be that walking barefoot is worthwhile, but I am not sure that it is explained by some linkage with the abdomen.
You say this but expect others to take your advice on conditions you cannot even see. I think I will continue to be cynical about the efficacy of alternative health practices and wary of those that promote them.I don't take pills for something someone else told me I had.
@mike archer, I take it from your response that there is no evidence reflexology is an effective treatment for anything.
I did find this part of your response puzzling:
You say this but expect others to take your advice on conditions you cannot even see. I think I will continue to be cynical about the efficacy of alternative health practices and wary of those that promote them.
Unless you are used to walking 6-7 hours per day every day carrying weight, your feet ARE going to swell.
.
your abdomen is weak.
This is the problem with blanket statements. There are people here who stand all day. Waitresses,shop staff etc. There are people that walk a lot. There are people that rarely move at all.
Depending on the person and what they're used to the "correct" answer will change.
Here is a different problem. If a person is going to swell that means the shoes on day one will be too big.
OTOH if you drop weight during the month your feet will lean out to.
A weak abdominal muscle leads to back pain. Your back takes the load your abdominal can't handle. You'll see this with people carry a bit of a tire. Dropping the weight leads to back relief.
So does an Aarn pack with balance pockets!You'll see this with people carry a bit of a tire. Dropping the weight leads to back relief.
This is the problem with blanket statements. There are people here who stand all day. Waitresses,shop staff etc. There are people that walk a lot. There are people that rarely move at all.
Depending on the person and what they're used to the "correct" answer will change.
Here is a different problem. If a person is going to swell that means the shoes on day one will be too big.
OTOH if you drop weight during the month your feet will lean out to.
Mine don't!I have never met one person who said their feet did not swell.
Thank you, FooteK. Hiking poles are in my plans, but I can't carry them on a plane from the US and I don't want to check my pack (as it might get lost in flight and delay my Camino. So, my current plan is to plan on getting poles in SJPP, which means I won't have them work with before I leave. I haven't yet looked into pros and cons of different kinds of poles. I'm assuming the store in SJPP will have ones that will work well.Ohiowalker, welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place for information and for discussion like you'd hear at the coffee area of an REI, if they had such a thing.
My experience was this:
Moab Ventilators, one size larger. Mid-high. Got them at the "last minute" when my toes began to dig into the front of the boots I had planned on wearing. They arrived about a month before my Camino and were very comfortable right out of the box. I was able to break them in and I wear them to this day. My Camino was very cold and very muddy. I appreciated the Vibram soles.
Feet flatten out, over hundreds of kilometers of daily walking, at different rates. It probably has much to do with the body weight plus the weight of the pack, plus, of course, general fitness and age.
Do not forget the importance of good socks!! I found sock liners invaluable and now wear liners with trekking socks whenever I'm in for something even as mundane as a walk around town.
Boot lacing will make a significant difference in keeping your foot from shifting inside the boot but you may have to spend some time finding just the right lacing strategy for you.
And, yep, toenail clippers.
Try on lots of different makes of boots. Each manufacturer uses a slightly different "last" and you have to find the one that fits best. When you find the boots that fit like a glove - nice, cushion-y, the right width and length, like walking on pillows - AHHH- you'll know.
PS - Do yourself a favor and, no matter how dorky you think they look, buy a good set of hiking poles. You'll thank us later.
Buen Camino
If at all possible, borrow some poles before you get some practice in before you go. Two internet resources that give good advice are Pete's Pole Pages and Helinox's Guide to Walking Poles. If you are going to 'invest' in poles when you arrive in France, it is worth investing some time beforehand learning to use them properly.Thank you, FooteK. Hiking poles are in my plans, but I can't carry them on a plane from the US and I don't want to check my pack (as it might get lost in flight and delay my Camino. So, my current plan is to plan on getting poles in SJPP, which means I won't have them work with before I leave. I haven't yet looked into pros and cons of different kinds of poles. I'm assuming the store in SJPP will have ones that will work well.
Buen Camino.
Thank you, FooteK. Hiking poles are in my plans, but I can't carry them on a plane from the US and I don't want to check my pack (as it might get lost in flight and delay my Camino. So, my current plan is to plan on getting poles in SJPP, which means I won't have them work with before I leave. I haven't yet looked into pros and cons of different kinds of poles. I'm assuming the store in SJPP will have ones that will work well.
Buen Camino.
I did something very similar on the long haul flight to Oslo to start St Olavs Way - I used one of those striped poly bags from the $2 shop and disposed of it in the airport on arrival. This year I just put my poles down the side of my pack, and took it to the special handling area. I know some people think I am a bit blaisé about checked baggage, but I haven't had a problem on international flights in the 35 or so years I have been travelling overseas (from Australia).Just a thought about traveling overseas with a pack.
I've done it a couple of times, even with my poles and (knock on wood) have not had any problems. What I do is this:
I have poles that collapse down so I can stash them in the side pockets of my pack. That is good because I don't use my poles all the time on the Camino, only when I need them. When I'm on the Camino, I can keep my poles on the outside pocket. if I'm not using them.
To prepare for air travel, I get a large IKEA bag. You know, the big blue one. It never looks big enough, but it always is! I cram my fully loaded backpack, poles in the backpack pockets and all, in the blue bag and check it through as normal check baggage. It has never gotten lost, the bright blue probably helps, and it saves me the trouble of having to make sure all the belts and webbing are tucked in so they don't get caught in conveyor belts at the airport.
I learned this from this forum.
I NEVER get a "Like" from Dougfitz so I'm feelin' pretty good right now.
Hi all. I'm a relatively new member on the forum and am planning my first Camino (Frances, from SJPP, either this May/June or this July/Aug) with great anticipation.
In several blister threads I've seen advice that I should not get my normal shoe size for my Camino hiking shoes (I'm not planning to wear boots). Rather, that they should be either 1/2 or a full size larger than my normal size. Yesterday, I talked to someone at our local, specialty outdoors store (a good one, as far as I can tell) about that. She said a couple of things I hadn't seen mentioned on the forum, although perhaps I just haven't seen the right threads.
First, that if my shoes are too big, when descending my feet could push into the end of the shoes over and over, which could cause problems, such as losing toenails. Second, that feet expanding from walking/hiking a lot isn't a cumulative, long term process, but happens anytime you walk many hours, even in one day. On that latter point, I've never done long distance hiking/walking like the Camino, but I've done lots of multiple hours a day hiking, sometimes for several days in a row. I've always done those hikes with shoes that are my normal size, and so far - knock on wood - I've never had problems with my feet expanding too much and blisters. (My normal size shoes have a little extra room in them, so maybe my feet expand, but just not enough to make the shoes tight and cause problems.)
This leaves me uncertain about whether I should go with shoes that are my normal size or whether I should get them larger than that. (I've never hiked with two pairs of socks and am planning to take a couple of pairs of Smartwool PhDs to wear by themselves, and another pair of regular Smartwool hiking socks with a thin liner to have that alternative.) So, is this another one of those subjects where the answer is that it depends on the person and that some people's feet expand more than others? Are there some Camino walkers who have used shoes in their normal size and not had problems? Many thanks.
Buen Camino. Ohiowalker.
For those with WIDE FEET like me, wideshoes.com is stocking the New Balance 1540 in 4E and 6E widths. This is a very ventilated walker and good for hot weather.Hi all. I'm a relatively new member on the forum and am planning my first Camino (Frances, from SJPP, either this May/June or this July/Aug) with great anticipation.
In several blister threads I've seen advice that I should not get my normal shoe size for my Camino hiking shoes (I'm not planning to wear boots). Rather, that they should be either 1/2 or a full size larger than my normal size. Yesterday, I talked to someone at our local, specialty outdoors store (a good one, as far as I can tell) about that. She said a couple of things I hadn't seen mentioned on the forum, although perhaps I just haven't seen the right threads.
First, that if my shoes are too big, when descending my feet could push into the end of the shoes over and over, which could cause problems, such as losing toenails. Second, that feet expanding from walking/hiking a lot isn't a cumulative, long term process, but happens anytime you walk many hours, even in one day. On that latter point, I've never done long distance hiking/walking like the Camino, but I've done lots of multiple hours a day hiking, sometimes for several days in a row. I've always done those hikes with shoes that are my normal size, and so far - knock on wood - I've never had problems with my feet expanding too much and blisters. (My normal size shoes have a little extra room in them, so maybe my feet expand, but just not enough to make the shoes tight and cause problems.)
This leaves me uncertain about whether I should go with shoes that are my normal size or whether I should get them larger than that. (I've never hiked with two pairs of socks and am planning to take a couple of pairs of Smartwool PhDs to wear by themselves, and another pair of regular Smartwool hiking socks with a thin liner to have that alternative.) So, is this another one of those subjects where the answer is that it depends on the person and that some people's feet expand more than others? Are there some Camino walkers who have used shoes in their normal size and not had problems? Many thanks.
Buen Camino. Ohiowalker.
I have walked over 50,000 miles, (5 miles per day, every day) including all of the Appalachian Trail as a one time Thru-hike and another 1000 miles of AT for the fun of it. But I have not walked the Camino, yet. I am a retired ER doctor, marathoner (36 of them), and ultra-marathoner (mostly 50 miles) (115 of them). I have had a few blisters, treated hundreds of blisters, and treated dozens of black toe nails that later fell off. Blisters and black toenails are from friction and pounding of toes to the end of big shoes. So, in my experience, it all happens more when shoes are ill-fitted, and mostly from too big, and the foot is constantly sliding around in there! Of course, shoes too small are no good either. And on the topic of socks, I (and many others) don't believe in thick socks, and hate wool, but cotton worse. Many of my compatriots wear liner socks only, when their shoe fits. Ultimax makes the best I have found. They are synthetic, smooth, no seams, and as friction free as it gets. They don't stink too bad and dry overnight, so one pair can be worn over and over for months! Most of my official runs have been on dirt and rock trails, but some on pavement or asphalt. Pavement is the worst and the hottest. My feet are always wet from sweat, but on pavement with wool socks the heat is unbearable and blistering is worse. All my hiking boots are the same size as my "home" shoes, but fit a little differently--they are not the same animal. It is correct that some manufacturers have different sizing, but not many. Also, I know those backpacking light people and much of what they say is true. I have flat (straight) feet. So here is what I do for fitting: Normal length or size. Shoe looks straight on bottom, no curve (straight lasted). Plenty of toe space (no toe blisters). Not loose in the heel (no heel blisters). Lace them half way up and make a half knot (just cross the laces over each other once like you were going to tie them; this holds the lower laces firm to prevent foot sliding forward). Then finish lacing to the top and tie. If the shoe fits (and the socks aren't always wet and bulky) wear it.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=85598
Interesting... i've never had my feet swell a full shoe size and i've hiked a ton, hell I just did 150 KM last week over 8 days...
Sounds like you are a very experienced hiker with well-broken in shoes.
Most people who walk the Camino have never hiked more than a mile or two.
Most are not in prime condition.
Most have never put on hiking boots.
Most train ON the Camino.
Most people's feet DO swell.
You are lucky!
I've only tried the vaseline once and I think it did help.
My toes slid past each other instead of rubbing a blister.
Yes. Moisture causes friction. Vaseline repels water. Talc also repels water (but foot powders that use corn starch retain water). Silicone and its relatives also lubricate and repel water. I use SportSlick which is petrolatum (Vaseline) and silicone.does rubbing vaseline on your feet actually help much?
I had been walking in "well-fitting" Lowa's for four months as I began my training. Recently, since I leave in 2 months, I began to walk longer and more often and all of a sudden I was getting toe blisters. I just traded the Lowa's for Salomon's in a half size larger. We shall see...
Angela, I feel for you! My podiastrist OKed my Salomon Ultra 2 GTX but I think I will go purchase a pair that is stiff through out eveng in the toes as my fasciitis is acting up again.It was only when my training walks extended to longer than 3 hours that my feet started to swell. Got Salomon hiking boots larger than I would normally, to accommodate for this swelling. I'm very glad I knew that when I was shoe shopping! But now I'm getting pain in one foot, feeling like plantar fasciitis, and I'm hoping that my new insoles will provide more support than what came with the boots. I leave in a few days, so I'm a wee bit nervous about the 800 kms ahead!
Well, I'm back having started St Jean on April 15 and arriving Santiago on May 20. At age 67 it is going down as the most memorable experience of my adult life. Guessing I might be in re-entry mode for a while or, maybe forever...I'm flying on April 13 from the States to start shortly after. I've read lots of input on this topic and did purchase a pair of Merrell's a full size larger than my normal size after using my regular trainers (training) for a several weeks doing 20-25k a day 4-5 times a week. I found the normal shoe sizing (for me) pretty much matched the comments on what happens to your feet. I've been in the full size larger Merrell shoe for the last month and for me, it has made all the difference but, we will see!
Load up that pack and take some 10 mile hikes!! Don't wait for the Camino to verify your equipment choices; by then it is too late.I wandered around the shop for an hour with my new backpack (Osprey Atmos 50L) and shoes
I buy hiking shoes and boots that fit me with hiking socks. (wear your favorite hiking socks into the store) I also alter my laces while hiking, especially before starting down a hillside or mountain path. I take breaks while hiking/walking and take my shoes or boots off at rests. When possible I elevate my feet at rest breaks. My hiking history comes from wilderness hiking in the US, but I've also done Camino style day hiking in England, Spain and France. Never lost a toenail, never even had one turn funny colors, etc. Very rarely get a blister, when I do it is usually a small one that requires only a plaster over it to protect it while it heals itself....
In several blister threads I've seen advice that I should not get my normal shoe size for my Camino hiking shoes (I'm not planning to wear boots). Rather, that they should be either 1/2 or a full size larger than my normal size. Yesterday, I talked to someone at our local, specialty outdoors store (a good one, as far as I can tell) about that. She said a couple of things I hadn't seen mentioned on the forum, although perhaps I just haven't seen the right threads....
Buen Camino. Ohiowalker.
Agreed, a 50L pack is probably too large.Draganban, keep that receipt, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel tempted to exchange tjat 50 l backpack for on 40 l. or less
I totally disagree with you.@Melensdad day hiking is very different to the Camino. After a few hundred kilometres walking day after day, the feet flatten out lengthwise and spread. . .
Draganban, keep that receipt, I wouldn't be surprised if you feel tempted to exchange tjat 50 l backpack for on 40 l. or less
Yes, it is fun @Draganban buying kit, but dangerous to the bank balance. I'm good at watching the specials at the discount supermarkets, especially for clothing.
I'm sure everyone's feet are different, and maybe there are some whose feet did not change while walking a half-marathon or more per day for five or six weeks, but I can assure you that mine did expand/swell/grow during my training and walking the Camino. I'm not knowledgeable enough or professionally qualified to explain the reason for it it, but facts are facts. Based on advice from others, I originally purchased a pair of Merrill Moabs 1/2 size larger (US 10-1/2) than I normally wore at that point. After six months of walking 25-30 miles per week in training, I noticed my toes hitting the ends of those boots. I took those boots back to REI, and thanks to their amazing return policy, they exchanged them for a pair another 1/2 size larger, or US 11. So I ended up with footwear a full size larger than my pre-Camino shoe size, and now, almost two years since completing the CF, my feet have stayed the same full size larger than my pre-Camino size. Of course I guess my feet may have stayed the same and the boots and all the other shoes in my closet may have shrunk during this timeI totally disagree with you.
The Camino is just a series of day hikes. A sequence of them which are repeated for 30-ish days. it is no different than any other long distance hike that covers similar distance. Whether it be the 200 mile John Muir Trail or the 2100 mile AT, the feet deal with the same thing. On the Camino, however, much lighter packs are used, much lighter footwear is used, much smoother terrain is encountered, and you actually get to sleep in beds, eat in cafes, sit in chairs at rest stops, etc.
Those of us who walk and/or hike daily perhaps have perpetually swollen feet?
But please explain to me the real difference between walking 10-ish miles a day around your hometown with a small pack and walking 10-ish miles a day in Spain?
Perhaps I am just a walker but I think that many folks provide some pretty bad advice by being very incomplete with their explanations.
As I have stated many times I am a walker, many miles per day, most every day, with a small pack and poles. I've also done long hikes across southern Spain, France and coast to coast England, in addition to wilderness backpacking and hiking here in the US. Perhaps my feet are perpetually swollen?. . . Seriously, I don't mean to sound snarky, but it may pay to listen to the practical experience of those who have been there, done that.
I'm sure everyone's feet are different
Completely agree with both of these statements. It depends on the history and nature of the particular feet. I have worn generously sized shoes for so many years of regular but ordinary walking that my normal pre-camino shoes were already a half-size larger than I wore as a younger person. Maybe if you are new to walking, or haven't had several pregnancies to expand your feet, the Camino experience will be a greater shock to your feet. I have short toes that never reach the end of a shoe that is the right width and shape.Perhaps my feet are perpetually swollen?
This is only true when it comes to what equipment to bring (as in no cooking equipment) not to the day after day after day impact on the body that never gets the chance to fully recuperate.The Camino is just a series of day hikes. .
I am sure you edited my quotation for the sake of brevity, however doing so also somewhat changes the meaning of what I wrote.This is only true when it comes to what equipment to bring (as in no cooking equipment) not to the day after day after day impact on the body that never gets the chance to fully recuperate.
I'd recommend going back to my earlier post, as well as posts by many others, and make sure you take breaks, removed your walking shoes, elevate your feet at your breaks, etc.This is really interesting. Since deciding to do the Camino I have so far increased my weekly walking from 35k to 50k. Just that change has produced the following.
A pair of RM Williams boots I bought about 3 months ago are so uncomfortable I cannot stand wearing them at all.
I've stopped wearing mid-weight socks and liners and just gone to double liners only.
A two week old pair of Merrell mid boots get really uncomfortable at the end of the day to the extent that my feet are burning.......
I'd recommend going back to my earlier post, as well as posts by many others, and make sure you take breaks, removed your walking shoes, elevate your feet at your breaks, etc.
OK then, go for it.As I have stated many times I am a walker, many miles per day, most every day, with a small pack and poles. I've also done long hikes across southern Spain, France and coast to coast England, in addition to wilderness backpacking and hiking here in the US. Perhaps my feet are perpetually swollen?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?