JulioCesarSalad
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- February
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Yup, if you follow the lighter pack link it subtracts the weight of worn clothes and water, bringing it down to 22 pounds. I would still like some feedback on what may be necessary or notAssuming your cousin isn’t planning walk in the nude they’ll be wearing a fair bit of the list not carrying it.
The stuff not-required-on-voyage, forward it to Ivar in Santiago or post-restante with Correos
I think you have too many pairs of trousers. If the weatherproof ones are really weatherproof, do you really need rainpants?Yup, if you follow the lighter pack link it subtracts the weight of worn clothes and water, bringing it down to 22 pounds. I would still like some feedback on what may be necessary or not
Thanks for the feedback but where are you seeing 10 shirts? There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxingThere's a lot there. I'm surprised it would even fit into a 34 L backpack.
For starters, a couple of specifics... It is not necessary to carry 4 L of water on the Camino Frances in winter, but that quantity can be adjusted as you go! The sleeping foam is not really needed. For waterproof gloves, consider taking a pair of dishwashing gloves that fit over you non-waterproof ones. Detergent is usually dispensed with the machines, and for handwashing, regular soap is enough.
There are 10 (TEN!) shirts on the list. Take a step back and consider the necessary clothes like this...
You don't need 10 different shirts! I think that several shirts and one thermal pants could be eliminated right away.
- What would you wear when you leave the albergue on a typical nice day - say 5 degrees C, no rain? Remember, you will warm up a lot within 30 minutes, so items such as hat, buff/scarf, gloves can be easily removed it you get too warm (You do not want to sweat).
- What would you add if it turns chilly or windy? Another top layer and/or the rain jacket.
- If it rains, add the rain jacket, but don't get hot underneath.
- Now, if you start on a really cold day, what extra do you need? Probably the thermal pants and top, plus the rain jacket and pants, plus a layer or two in between.
As a cross check, look at the collection and ask "Would I ever wear all of these at once?" What you need is a combination of layers that works for the coldest conditions, and then make sure you will still have a warm dry outfit for the evening. But the evening outfit doesn't need to be all separate dedicated items. Some of the middle layers from a cold day will serve that purpose.
There are also 2 thermal shirts on your list.Thanks for the feedback but where are you seeing 10 shirts? There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxing
Things without weights are because I don't know what their weight is, but since it's underwear and a vest it's nonnegotiable anyway and must be takenI think you have too many pairs of trousers. If the weatherproof ones are really weatherproof, do you really need rainpants?
I would carry less water (maybe 2 litres) and more food.
Do you really need a headlamp and a lantern?
I'm a bit confused with the list. Some things don't have weights, presumably because you'll be wearing them, but I suppose you're not really planning to wear all your underwear at once?
0 weight are because I am not home to weigh things right now, but they are nonnegotiable so they can't be cut regardlessA few more items, from looking at the spreadsheet:
- The thermal pants, shirts and underwear show zero weight.
- Is the pillow really necessary? There are pillows at almost all albergues.
- Why two weatherproof pants at 589 g each? While one pair is being washed, you can wear the thermal pants plus rain pants
- What is the "accessory cord" for?
- IF you need mosquito repellent, you can buy it in Spain.
- Dry bags are useful for isolating wet and dry things, and also because a backpack rain cover may not work perfectly.
- Of course the hammock and suspension are not necessary, but you may have difficulty dissuading your cousin of this!
Let me rephrase... there are 10 top layers. You need to think in terms of layers to protect your body, as efficinetly (weight-wise) as possible.There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxing
Ok so lets cut one thermal shirtLet me rephrase... there are 10 top layers. You need to think in terms of layers to protect your body, as efficinetly (weight-wise) as possible.
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
Why two pairs of regular pants?There is only one pair of weatherproof pants, and two pairs of regular, way lighter pants
He will only need 30' of 8 mm rope if he washes all of those excess clothes at once!Accessory cord would be to tie up clothes to dry
I am not sure what the first one is being used for, but I would take two, so that all clothes and sleeping bag can be contained.Dry bag: so you think a second one would be needed? What capacity? They are lightweight and very packable so not the biggest issue
So you want:Cold: Shirt, fleece, vest, puffy
layers removed as needed for cooler temps
Cold wind: Shirt, fleece, puffy, rain jacket
Shirts: one to hike, one dirty, one to relax, one to sleep
Shakedowns should always be ruthlessPlease don't get me wrong - I don't mind if he wants to carry all of these things. It is just that you asked for opinions on how to shake this down, so I'm offering these suggestions and challenges.
To be able to change once the weather is nice towards the endWhy two pairs of regular pants?
So smaller lighter rope, maybe just the ultralight cordHe will only need 30' of 8 mm rope if he washes all of those excess clothes at once!
First one is for phone and stuff, but ok will budget for a second larger bagI am not sure what the first one is being used for, but I would take two, so that all clothes and sleeping bag can be contained.
Was thinking of eliminating the fleece but you're right to maybe eliminate the vest. Cold could be thermal+shirt+fleece+puffy. Vest was for cooler days, that that could be solved with shirt+puffy only instead of shirt+fleece+vest
- vest - What is this? You have a separate puffy
Eliminated:So in the clothes department, I suggest eliminating 1 regular shirt, 1 thermal shirt, 1 thermal pants, 1 weatherproof pants,1 pair underpants.
- fleece
- puffy
- rain jacket
Some important items I don't see are a warm hat and scarf or buff.
I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.First: I have not walked a camino in winter.
Second: My spring Camino pack is quite a bit lighter than what your cousin carries in clothes alone.
--> so please consider that i might be a bit biased
I have just checked my wardrobe. Mrs HtD has been in there recently; I’m long retired and don’t ‘dress up’ any more.You don't need 10 different shirts! I think that several shirts and one thermal pants could be eliminated right
Well, while I am quite confident that i would be able to do a winter camino with a pack of around 5-6kg plus water I am a tad bit sorry that thats not relevant enough for you. I guess carrying 16kg up the pyrenees is just to much fun.I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.
As stated, starred items are estimates and I'm not home to weigh things.
Shakedowns should always be ruthless
What do you mean? To have a more seasonally-appropriate pair, or just to wash? There are still more than enough trousers to cover the legs while the first pair is being washed. Or is this a post-camino wardrobe item? Personally I wear Camino clothes everywhere, all year.To be able to change once the weather is nice towards the end
My husband probably owns 200. All of them are either hand-me-downs from various sources, or >30 years old, and he won't let me dispose of them. He has enough "gardening" clothes for about 10 life times.I own nine shirts.
Mrs HtD confessed some time ago that items which she finds objectionable are first removed from my wardrobe to a neutral location. If, within 12 months I don’t ask ‘have you seen my X?’; then they’re recycled or donated.
What do you mean? To have a more seasonally-appropriate pair, or just to wash? There are still more than enough trousers to cover the legs while the first pair is being washed. Or is this a post-camino wardrobe item? Personally I wear Camino clothes everywhere, all year.
My husband probably owns 200. All of them are either hand-me-downs from various sources, or >30 years old, and he won't let me dispose of them. He has enough "gardening" clothes for about 10 life times.
I am inclined to agree that all four - thermal, vest, fleece, puffy - would not likely be worn all at once, under a rain jacket. Since the rain jacket is essential, one of the others could be left behind. The puffy should never get wet so it will be available for evening warmth. The puffy will probably be too warm to wear for walking, anyway, except in an unusually cold situation, but it is wonderful to have for the evenings.I don't think that a vest or fleece is needed with a puffy jacket. Especially since there's also a thermal shirt to wear underneath.
This is a lot of clothes. I read it as 2 long-underwear pants, plus 2 hiking pants, and on top of that a weatherproof pant. Don't the hiking pants resist rain and wind?Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
My first Camino, I had flipflops, which wandered town in the evening. Then I discovered Teva sandals, which were workable both in shower and for the evening. I would not bring a separate pair of full on shoes for evening.SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
Here we have different ideas. I have my poncho, and rain resistant pants that I'm wearing anyway. I don't bring a rain cover for the pack, as it's under the poncho. I don't bring rain paints and rain jacket, because if my legs are out in the blowing rain I will live, and the fleece is under the poncho.- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
What other folks have said about pillows.SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
What is this?- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
These are heavy. If you're bringing a cell phone, you can use a flashlight app. Lights the path nicely.- Headlamp
A mi, this is duplicative.- Lantern
If you're not planning to cook, you might skip this. Or you could substitute a lightweight unbreakable mug?KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
I saved the disposable plastic spoons from the airplane.- Spork
The packaged first aid kits are heavy. (Some include packages of water.) You can buy refills of tape, gauze, and various other items at farmacias. You do want to carry personal meds of the tummy or anti-inflammatory types, as you can't rely on the Spanish market to carry the brands you're used to.EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
A thermal blanket in addition to a sleeping bag and a pad?- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
This is duplicative. I have walked multiple times with no backpack hydration arrangement. I refill bottles at fountains in Spain, or buy new if in Portugal (where there were very few usable potable fountains). Also the mouthpiece of the hydration system is an attractor (IMHO) for bacteria.BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Opinions differ on blister bandages. What was going to be in the first aid kit if it wasn't where the blister treatments were? (I personally use alcohol (AKA hand sanitizer), gauze, and paper tape on blisters.)Medical
- Blister bandages
I read that as "cord" twice. If you have a paracord hunk for using as clothesline, tethering, etc, why would you want an "accessory" cord? What is that? (But you do want to bring some plastic clothespins, and a couple of safety pins. And a cheap stopper for the washtub.)TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
If one of the hiking shirts has a collar, you can cut the flannel shirt. Which takes forever to dry. If you already have a fleece and a long underwear shirt and a hiking shirt that's plenty of warmth.- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
Ah, here you and I differ. I use a poncho that covers the pack and myself. I well remember walking behind people with the rain covers on their packs in rain and seeing the sizable puddle of water in the bottom of the rain cover, bouncing along as they walked.- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Unnecessary.I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.
As stated, starred items are estimates and I'm not home to weigh things.
If you can’t do a week long shakedown hike then I recommended solely living out of that pack for a week. And carry it with you when you go places.To each their own but that pack sounds miserable. I walked Oct-November with a 10L pack that weighed 6lbs.
I’m getting ready to walk CF in January-February with a 24L pack that weighs 9 lbs.
I recommend going on a week long shakedown hike and anything that doesn’t get used, ditch.
Wow!Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Use a shampoo with conditioner in one... or better yet use a shampoo bar. A shampoo bar can be used for hair, body, and handwashed laundry. If you don't like a shampoo bar for your hair - then use a shampoo/conditioner in one and a bar of soap for body and laundry.HYGEINE
- - Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
-
Instead 2 thermal pants/shirts - just bring one and then a regular pair of regular hiking pants and shirt. Layer as needed. Since it will be march, the waterproof pants might be good.CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- G- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
I would say trail running shoes OR boots... not both. But if you want a second pair of shoes other than your flip flops or sandals - just make sure they are VERY lightweight. I personally have ditched boots for most hiking.SHOES
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
Are you saying in addition to the weather pants above? These could be the same itemRAIN
- Rain pants (goretex)
-
Hmm... for the Camino you can definitely save a lot of weight by skipping the camping gear - but not if going camping too. I personally would skip the pad, pillow (can use a stuff sack with clothes inside), and hammock and you wouldn't need as heavy of a bag if not going camping.SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
Don't need a lantern - you have your headlamp. You might not even need a headlamp since your phone as a flashlight.ELECTRONICS
-
- Lantern
Not necessaryKITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
Does your backpack have a built in whistle on the chest strap? If yes - ditch the whistle. The Camino isn't a wilderness hike so I would also skip the thermal blanket - you have a sleeping bag but you shouldn't have a problem finding shelterEMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
Good - I am just trying to figure out how you can fit all the gear you listed in it! I hiked with a 30L for 2 Caminos and will do a 24L for the next one.BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
Don't need the hydration pack. And you can bring a nalgene - but if you want to save weight - but 2 1L bottles of water and then reuse the ligthweight water bottle that the water comes in. If you like a hose, they have hydration hoses you can buy that attach to the disposable water bottles.WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Well - this is your first aid kits main item - just wondering why it is listed separately.Medical
- Blister bandages
Don't need any of this - although the Swiss Army Knife could come in handy for cutting breadTOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
You have a dry bag listed above, you don't need a flannel shirt - the layers above should be fine, and for post-hike travel - just buy a shirt if you want something different for your post Camino travels. Carrying something across Spain on your back that you won't use until after you hike across Spain is less than ideal.THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Initial thoughts.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
You are thinking in layers - but you are separating out the type of weather.Ok so lets cut one thermal shirt
It looks to me like everything else still has a use? I am thinking in layers.
Cold: Shirt, fleece, vest, puffy
layers removed as needed for cooler temps
Cold wind: Shirt, fleece, puffy, rain jacket
Shirts: one to hike, one dirty, one to relax, one to sleep
Could you explain what specifically should be cut?
I definitely second the pants that zip off at or above the knee. If the lower legs get wet you zip them off and they'll dry quickly; meanwhile you're still dressed. You can even zip on the lower legs of the second pair to make a complete pair of trousers if you want to keep walking (as opposed to hanging out in a nice warm cafe while the zipped off parts dry).Initial thoughts.
Lose the Vida pro as he has hiking pants (2x zip-off trousers I hope) and rain pants for cold days.
Puffy jacket = doesn’t also need a Columbia down gilet/vest.
Thermal shirts ok, take 1 more of those and then loose the 2x hiking shirts. My thermal shirts were slightly baggy and doubled as my clean casual shirts after the daily post-walk shower.
Headlamp or lantern, a good headlamp = lantern not needed.
Post-hike clothes, hammock etc send forward to Ivar’s collection point in Santiago.
Your cousin would be just as welcome on the forum as you are. Double handling all the feedback you are getting must be getting pretty tedious by now!Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances.
yup!If your cousin is a fit tough Spanish-speaking guy and a cool temperament, able to think on his feet and happy to spend many cold nights alone.
nope lolwith plenty of money
10% is not a hard and fast rule. Some are comfortable with more, and some with less.And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.
Eh.... you shouldn't even have to "defend" why you are helping him! It is funny how people tend to throw in the judgement. I had the same happen when I planned to hike part of the Pacific Crest Trail with my kids (one a teenage and the other a young adult). It was MY trip and "I" was buying gear for "us" and asked a couple questions like - what type of pants/shorts do most of the men on the facebook page for the trail prefer and I got lambasted because if my son is going on the trip then HE should be doing the research and buying his own gear. Um... he was in college... he was focusing on college work... and on a very tight college kid budget and I was the one who asked HIM to come with ME and therefore I was doing some research and purchasing some the gear for him. Plus - I knew my kid - he would have just worn his jeans not realizing what a bad idea it is to wear jeans on a long distance wilderness hike. Besides, What business was it of theirs as to whether or not my son was doing his research or spending his money or if I did both for him? And my son was doing ME a favor simply by agreeing to come with me! People are over the top that way.He's still the one making the decisions, I'm just compiling equipment feedback and shelter availability and presenting them to him, He will be good to go for the trip itself, it's just that right now he's even speechless that this trip is even happening and needs to deal with other things, so I'm lightening his load by handling the research
The 10% rule came from a child's school backpack study and was never meant to be applied to adults in backpacking situations whether it be a Pilgrimage like the Camino or a backcountry wilderness hike... yet it is the so called magic number which way too many people keep quoting.And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight. I get mine down to 7kgs and that’s enough for me. Both in terms of what I carry and the weight on my back!!! Go light!!
And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.
@trecile is right, this is at best a rule of thumb. It might work well enough for a summer camino, but is unlikely to be a good guide for pack weight in the other seasons.10% is not a hard and fast rule.
Some of the areas I was different.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
That might be one source, but in this context, it can be traced to guidance offered by the British Confraternity of St James in their advice at that time about packing lists. I was always amused, because they had a recommended list of items which, if I had packed them from my own gear at the time, would have been difficult to keep under the 10% 'rule'. In the circumstances of the time, any rule of thumb was better than none, and I don't recall CSJ ever suggesting this was a strict limit.The 10% rule came from a child's school backpack study and was never meant to be applied to adults in backpacking situations whether it be a Pilgrimage like the Camino or a backcountry wilderness hike... yet it is the so called magic number which way too many people keep quoting.
That's a guideline, not a rule. Never think that if you just put on ten more kilos of weight you will be happy with another kilo in your backpack!And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.
Yes - more and more people and guides are using this 10% rule in their advice/guidance - but I do believe the original source for many was from this child's backpack study! After the child's backpack weight study all sorts of people started adopting this advice... and it spread like wildfire amongst the backpacking community - leaving out the fact that the study was regarding children's school backpacks.That might be one source, but in this context, it can be traced to guidance offered by the British Confraternity of St James in their advice at that time about packing lists. I was always amused, because they had a recommended list of items which, if I had packed them from my own gear at the time, would have been difficult to keep under the 10% 'rule'. In the circumstances of the time, any rule of thumb was better than none, and I don't recall CSJ ever suggesting this was a strict limit.
Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?Eh.... you shouldn't even have to "defend" why you are helping him! It is funny how people tend to throw in the judgement. I had the same happen when I planned to hike part of the Pacific Crest Trail with my kids (one a teenage and the other a young adult). It was MY trip and "I" was buying gear for "us" and asked a couple questions like - what type of pants/shorts do most of the men on the facebook page for the trail prefer and I got lambasted because if my son is going on the trip then HE should be doing the research and buying his own gear. Um... he was in college... he was focusing on college work... and on a very tight college kid budget and I was the one who asked HIM to come with ME and therefore I was doing some research and purchasing some the gear for him. Plus - I knew my kid - he would have just worn his jeans not realizing what a bad idea it is to wear jeans on a long distance wilderness hike. Besides, What business was it of theirs as to whether or not my son was doing his research or spending his money or if I did both for him? And my son was doing ME a favor simply by agreeing to come with me! People are over the top that way.
Yes - it would be good for your cousin to do all of this for himself, but how very kind of you to try to help him!
Whilst it’s not Jeanine’s most concise post, I don’t see anything implying judgement on judges, or whatever.Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?
I’m judging people for judging too.Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?
Judge away! But first let me tell you why your assessment is naive. I have been helping people in my community prepare themselves for their pilgrimages for over a decade. Getting into good physical shape is just one element of a balanced preparation. Mental, emotional and spiritual preparation are just as important in my mind. And you have have given us a pretty bleak assessment of your cousin's current state of at least one of those. Perhaps they are undertaking a balanced preparation, but being 'in good shape' would only be part of that.I’m judging people for judging too.
“How will your cousin do the Camino if he’s not doing the research”
If retirement age people can handle it I’m sure a 30 year old in good shape will be fine
If it was me I would get rid of a lot of the clothes that you've listed. You can always pick up more if you need it but I would start as light as possible and purchase as you go if you need it rather than packing just in case.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Hi, I'll just comment on a few things because you've already had a lot of good suggestions to go through. I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow. You can stuff your down (or other puffy) jacket into the top of your sleeping bag. If you are taking rain pants, you don't need waterproof pants. You might test your backpack in the shower and determine if it is waterproof--my guess is it would be resistant for a while, but wet through soon enough (I would carry the cover). You don't need two containers for water. If at some point you decide you want a small container, buy a soft drink and reuse it for the rest of the hike. Lantern seems like a luxury item. I would carry a Smartwool top and bottoms and leave the undershirts behind. Smartwool can be worn for days without stinking and are warmer, whereas most shirts need washing often. I'm not sure you would ever need so many layers at one time--a shirt, vest, fleece jacket, puffy, and rainjacket. If you are doing the entire Frances, I recommend a hiker's umbrella. Yes, you have raingear, but it's still not pleasant to have rain pouring on your head and hitting you in the face.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Pillows are provided in almost all albergues, so there's definitely no need to carry one.I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow
Any products that are largely water based can go (except water itself). For example, take a small combo shampoo/conditioner/body cleansing bar and dry toothpaste. They are easy to find these days, particularly in bio stores.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
There are plenty of threads that will help @JulioCesarSalad advise his cousin about this. As it stands, based on his proposed weights, I suspect he will need between 50 and 60 li to get it all in. That's not really a surprize. Once the cousin's packing list is sorted out, I still don't think it likely that what is needed for a winter camino will fit into the current pack, but it might get into something smaller perhaps around 45 li.If he can get all that in a 34L pack I sure would like to know the secret. My 38L is crammed with half of that. Buen Camino
Yes. I did take a silk pillow case with me (a Camino gift from my wife) and used it 2-3 times on a 39 day walk for some questionable clean bedding issues. Apart from the emotional value of being a gift from her, it weighed almost nothing so was never on a “leave behind” list.Pillows are provided in almost all albergues, so there's definitely no need to carry one.
LOL... I was talking to the OP... I did stick to the equipment, until I saw that the OP was being placed in a defensive position which I feel was unnecessary, so I supported him. I am sorry if you have a problem with that. He came to us for help... I was supporting him with both the equipment and with his feeling the need to defend himself and his reasons for supporting his cousin.Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?
Yes! My trail sandals doubled as my to-from the shower footwear.Some of the areas I was different.
Hygiene: Instead of soap, shampoo, and conditioner, I just took a shampoo bar and used it for body and hair. I used light detergent strips for laundry, rather than carrying lots of detergent.
Clothes: I had three sets: one to wear and two to carry (many prefer just two), plus a hoodie or fleece for extra warmth and a light windbreaker/rain jacket for rain when needed. This seems an excessive amount of clothing for a Camino. Significantly more than I brought and many people would say I took too much.
Shoes: That seems a lot. One pair of something to walk in and one pair for other purposes seems plenty. I took trail runners and hiking sandals and that was it.
Rain: See the rain jacket above under clothes, and a rain cover for my pack that came with it. I also took a number of ziplock bags as additional protection for things inside my pack.
Sleeping: Sleeping pad is not necessary if you are staying in albergues. Neither is a hammock. If a bunch of this stuff is for his camping afterwards, perhaps send it to Santiago to be picked up there so it needn't be carried the whole way.
Electronics: Headlamp and lantern seems to be duplication. See note above if the lantern is for camping afterwards.
Kitchen: I took a spork. I don't know if I ever used it. Maybe a few times.
Shampoo can be used to wash body - no need to take both.Ziplock bag: to hold soap and shampoo after showering
A very reasonable point, and I will admit that my most recent Caminos, which I've been drawing from in my advice here, were in more clement weather than one is likely to find in February. Nevertheless, I think I would still only take two pairs of footwear: one for inside the albergue/bath wear and one for outside. I would just put my hiking shoes back on for outside excursions in town.To the people recommending sandals as comfort and bath shoes, can sandals really be worn outdoors in February? He is from Juarez, the desert, and while our winters do get down to freezing he is not accustomed to cold temperatures
Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everythingyou might need to go a little larger than 34 L.
For a winter camino, the opportunity of being able to heat up some food or a hot drink is very appealing. Sometimes the local cafes are not open early in the morning. Of course, he can still do it with a bowl, but a wide mouth mug might be more versatile, so keep it in mind when you are shopping. I have improvised with yoghurt containers upon occasion, so don't fret about it!Would a mug be useful outside of food?
Just asked and he doesn't drink coffee, so the bowl might be better in this caseFor a winter camino, the opportunity of being able to heat up some food or a hot drink is very appealing. Sometimes the local cafes are not open early in the morning. Of course, he can still do it with a bowl, but a wide mouth mug might be more versatile, so keep it in mind when you are shopping. I have improvised with yoghurt containers upon occasion, so don't fret about it!
Good call.One thing you might tell him about is that all the larger towns have what people call "China stores" (I'm not sure that is the best term) which have just about anything you can think of to buy, not always high quality, but very cheap. Good place to pick up sandals or shampoo or soap or warmer clothing should he find he needs it.
If she has, it will probably have made its way into my husbands closet!I think I’ve still got a Lacoste t-shirt from a China store, assuming Mrs HtD hasn’t already found it.
I did take a light plastic mug the last time, but prior to that I kept and reused a takeaway coffee cup. They disintegrate after a few days but thats fine. (I took my own teabags)Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything
AS to shoes, I'm thinking of sending him with the three pairs, shower shoes and super light sneakers in the backpack, and if it's too much he can just mail his sneakers ahead
A mug: I have to check how much the bowl actually weights because it's very light. Would a mug be useful outside of food? I'm assuming coffee would be from a cafe, and as such would have its own mug
As I said earlier, there has been discussion about this. Some recent posts I made about an approach I recommend can be found here and here.Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything
Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything
AS to shoes, I'm thinking of sending him with the three pairs, shower shoes and super light sneakers in the backpack, and if it's too much he can just mail his sneakers ahead
A mug: I have to check how much the bowl actually weights because it's very light. Would a mug be useful outside of food? I'm assuming coffee would be from a cafe, and as such would have its own mug
Me too‘Shower shoes’? I have never used them in all my decades of travel. I walk to the shower in bare feet and walk back to my bed/bunk and put on my footwear. Have never ever had any foot disease.
I always take only one walking pole - it's lightweight; I only use it for stability on rocky or steep terrain.First: I have not walked a camino in winter.
Second: My spring Camino pack is quite a bit lighter than what your cousin carries in clothes alone.
--> so please consider that i might be a bit biased
Just some thoughts:
- 15F sleeping bag might be excessive if you plan on sleeping indoors and the following camping is in a milder area than the galicean mountains
- A dry sac can double as a pillow
- the Zlite and Hammock could be sent ahead
- 2 sets of clothes can be enough. If you have shirts, thermal shirts, puffy etc, you can use a "not perfect" piece as a replacement in most situations. Like wear your rain jacket while your other stuff is drying as a shirt.
- Shirt + thermal shirt + fleece + puffy + vest + rain jacket combined is likely significantly warmer than what i was wearing skiing at -17°C last weekend... i guess you can easily ditch one or two of those.
- my first name translates to Esteban. My swim short weighs about 50g, not 200.
- thermal pants also make for a decent pyjama
- travel size toothpaste cuts a few grams, they sell the stuff in Spain
- 300g Flipflops sounds heavy
- i used a 40g (small) towel. It worked just fine.
- 226g for a first aid kit sounds like a lot. Specially if you have a rescue blanket on top of that.
- the bladder and nalgene likely weigh more than just the water contet.
- I guess the cord is for camping? I would not know what to do with it on a camino otherwise. Same goes for the lantern.
- I do miss some clothes pins, some cream, sun protection and a Credential
- Thats a pretty heavy charger...
- 100g detergent + 90g Shampoo (no soap?) and even conditioner... I used about 60g of Dr.Bronners for the Camino Frances to wash me and my clothes.
- 180g sounds heavy for a 5l dry bag.
As i said, thats just some thoughts. It's likely not all help, but maybe some...
edit: no hiking poles? I would think about that...
Maybe this thread has run its course, but to give a bit of perspective: 35 lb = 16 kg. I am 70 years old and weigh 73.5 kg.16 kg is exactly what I was carrying at the beginning of an 8 day through hike last week (a lot of it was food, hence a progressive reduction in weight, especially as we ate the chorizo first). OK, the distances were shorter, but the terrain a lot less level than the CF. If I can do that without permanent injury, a fit 30 yr old male shouldn't have too much trouble. And if he does, he can and probably will dump the excess.Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time
Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include
I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:
TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds
HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel
CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover
SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself
ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern
KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork
EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket
BACKPACK
- 34L backpack
WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L
Medical
- Blister bandages
TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners
THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover
Same here re footgear. Mind you, I've seen how much antiseptic and detergent a Spanish hospitalero throws at a shower stall every morning.Just a thought to add to the onslaught. Haha.
‘Shower shoes’? I have never used them in all my decades of travel. I walk to the shower in bare feet and walk back to my bed/bunk and put on my footwear. Have never ever had any foot disease.
Bowl - a number of albergues have microwaves but no equipment. A light query microwaveable bowl will possibly be very useful.
Hi, I'll just comment on a few things because you've already had a lot of good suggestions to go through. I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow. You can stuff your down (or other puffy) jacket into the top of your sleeping bag. If you are taking rain pants, you don't need waterproof pants. You might test your backpack in the shower and determine if it is waterproof--my guess is it would be resistant for a while, but wet through soon enough (I would carry the cover). You don't need two containers for water. If at some point you decide you want a small container, buy a soft drink and reuse it for the rest of the hike. Lantern seems like a luxury item. I would carry a Smartwool top and bottoms and leave the undershirts behind. Smartwool can be worn for days without stinking and are warmer, whereas most shirts need washing often. I'm not sure you would ever need so many layers at one time--a shirt, vest, fleece jacket, puffy, and rainjacket. If you are doing the entire Frances, I recommend a hiker's umbrella. Yes, you have raingear, but it's still not pleasant to have rain pouring on your head and hitting you in the face.
Great post! Not sure that it will put all of the “10% absolute” demons to bed, but hopefully tones it down to a “10% is a good place to think about, but many other factors will influence your final pack weight”.Maybe this thread has run its course, but to give a bit of perspective: 35 lb = 16 kg. I am 70 years old and weigh 73.5 kg.16 kg is exactly what I was carrying at the beginning of an 8 day through hike last week (a lot of it was food, hence a progressive reduction in weight, especially as we ate the chorizo first). OK, the distances were shorter, but the terrain a lot less level than the CF. If I can do that without permanent injury, a fit 30 yr old male shouldn't have too much trouble. And if he does, he can and probably will dump the excess.
As for the 10%, can we unanimously and permanently lay that to rest? Don't take my word for it. Here is some homework reading for you:
Applied Ergonomics: Volume 51, November 2015, Pages 281-290
Schoolbag carriage and schoolbag-related musculoskeletal discomfort among primary school children
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003687015000927?via=ihub
Schoolkids suffered ‘discomfort’ after carrying 12% or more of their body weight, but the article makes no recommendation as to how much they should carry
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How Much Should Your Pack Weigh?
Joe Pasteris
“20%” https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html
A website for hikers and backpackers.
-
HIKERS: FIND YOUR BEST BACKPACK WEIGHT
APRIL 16, 2021 SCIENCE CONNECTED EXERCISE
A backpacking/hiking article written by a uni lecturer who takes groups of students on outward bound hikes. He reckons it depends on height and size: smaller people can carry higher percentage, up to 50%
REFERENCE
Oshea, M. (2014). Backpack Weight and the Scaling of the Human Frame. The Physics Teacher,52(8), 479-481. doi:10.1119/1.4897584
ABSTRACT
Modeling real-life situations is an important part of introductory physics. Here we consider the question “What is the largest weight of backpack a hiker can manage?” A quick perusal of the Internet suggests that as the weight of a healthy adult increases, the largest backpack weight 𝑊bpWbp also increases and should be about 25–30% of a person's body weight for a reasonably fit adult.1 We show here that a careful modeling of the hiker and backpack leads to a somewhat different result, with hikers of sufficiently large (but otherwise healthy) weight not being able to carry as much backpack weight as hikers of smaller weight.
P.S. tell him to take exactly half the clothes and 90% of the toiletries.
Looking better! He will probably find other items to ditch once he is walking - he can donate or mail home if that is the case.UPDATE:
NEW BASE WEIGHT: 15 pounds
NEW TOTAL WEIGHT: 25 pounds (6 pounds worn clothes, 4 pounds 2L water)
Updated Lighterpack link here
ELIMINATE:
ADD
- One thermal shirt
- One thermal pant
- Lantern
- Vest
- Weatherproof pants
- Conditioner
- Hammock (ship)
- Hammock straps (ship)
- Sleeping pad (ship)
- Accessory cord
- Flannel
- 2 kilos of water
- SealLine Dry Sack
- Repellent
- 15F sleeping bag (add 30F sleeping bag)
- First aid: swap .7 for .3
- 1 pair wool socks (leave two boot, one calf)
- Extra blister dressing
NOTES
- Change shirts to: 1 wool t shirt, 1 collared hiking shirt, 2 t shirts
- 3L ultralight dry sack (phone/electronics) 20L ultralight dry sack (sleeping bag, clothes)
- Ziplock bag: to hold soap and shampoo after showering
- Seat pad
- 30F sleeping bag (saves 440 grams/1pound)
- Sleeping bag liner (adds 220 grams, for nights without heat)
- The shampoo is solid shampoo
- To the people recommending sandals as comfort and bath shoes, can sandals really be worn outdoors in February? He is from Juarez, the desert, and while our winters do get down to freezing he is not accustomed to cold temperatures
- Keeping 4 shirts and 4 pairs of underwear
- Keeping detergent. One bottle is 100 grams
- Something to keep in mind is that the trip is expensive enough as is. Yes it’s cheaper than a 40 day hostel tour of Europe, but it’s still a solid $1,000 USD for the Camino by itself. If he can save money by carrying a small bottle of detergent concentrate and extra shirts and underwear then it helps him do the camino
- Keeping the 3L water bladder BUT subtracting 2 kilos of water weight, he can simply fill it up partway after learning how much water he drinks in a standard day
- Starred items are weight estimates, I have not had a chance to weigh everything so some things may be wildly off, like the flip-flops
A sincere thank you to everyone who has been helpful with this, I'm glad I am able to present him curated information thanks to you all's winter experience
How Much Should Your Pack Weigh?
Joe Pasteris
“20%” https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html
A website for hikers and backpackers.
I don't think this is particularly good advice for someone undertaking a winter camino. If there is anything I have observed here, it is that there is no 10% rule, and if you do want to use it at a rule of thumb, it is really only relevant for a summer camino. I wrote this back in 2015 when asked what I thought authoritative sources for pack weight might be, and more recently noted this in response to a similar question recently. The link to the CSJ advice is still live.10% rule is a good place to start. And then whittle down from there.
This appears to completely miss the point of using a from the skin out approach to weight targets. One great advantage of using an FSO target is that it doesn't change from season to season, unlike base weight targets, and the very fact that it includes consumables and worn items allows meaningful trade-offs to be made between the three, base weight items, consumables and worn items. It quickly becomes obvious what effect wearing a boot in winter might be if it weighs and extra four or five hundred grams, and whether reducing the amount of shampoo and conditioner might compensate for that if one needs to stay within one's FSO target.For planning, what counts is the backpacks Base Weight (everything in the pack + the pack, but not consumables). I CAN carry up to three liters of water, but I only count the weight of the device that HOLDS the water, since the water I add will vary and be consumed, therefore less weight, as the day progresses.
Looking better! He will probably find other items to ditch once he is walking - he can donate or mail home if that is the case.
In March - you can wear sandals with socks or a very lightweight afternoon shoe. No matter what shoe you bring - it is good for it to be a shoe you can hike in in case your hiking shoes have an issue. For that - I use Teva or Xero sandals - and yes - I wear them with socks even in the summer since my feet are so work from walking (cushions them and provides warmth. I prefer hiking sandals myself as my extra shoe because they are usually lighter than any other shoe and I can hike in them if I need to. I don't bring a flip flop - but my choice of sandals can be used in the shower if needed. They dry plenty fast.
Just a thought - if he wants to sit - he doesn't need a seat pad. A few people like them but totally unnecessary weight. I sat on the ground if no chairs were available or sometimes even on my bag - but I could have just as easily sat on a piece of clothing or my towel or something. Anyhow - I bought sit pads for backpacking trips and never end up bringing them and never regretted that choice. Just saying this because it wouldn't have been something I would have ADDED while trying to lighten the load.
And if he really wants that detergent - then fine - but honestly just as easy to wash with the bar of soap. But really came to say - if he is bringing it for the times he machine washes - totally unnecessary as almost every time you pay for a machine wash - detergent is almost always provided. Only had to pay 1 Euro for detergent ONCE in Spain - the rest of the time it is either pre-loaded into the machine or simply provided. And hand washing is free and can be done with a shampoo bar - which would eliminate the need for the extra shirts. But this is his pack so if he wants extra shirts and extra detergent then of course he can bring them.
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