Skip the middle??

[holmes9]

My wife and I have only 15 walking days to work with for our planned camino starting in April. Since we do not have time for the whole thing, we thought we might walk the beginning and the end, and just take a train through the middle. So, perhaps SJPdP to Pamplona, and then Astorga to Santiago. For those of you who have been before, is there any reason why this might be a bad idea?

 

[scruffy1]

Every Camino is a good idea however do consider your reasons for doing this and think about your feelings upon completion-Was this a "real" Camiono? Were we "real" pilgrims? Did our efforts result in only "half" a Camino. You will be missing Puente La Reina, Eunate, Estella, Lograno, Ciiruena, Burgos, the church in Fromista, Carrion de los Condes, Leon, and the meseta which in April is green. You will be forced to complete around 25 kilometers a day-easyily done but not allowing much time for enjoying the view, visiting interesting churches, villages, and towns along the Camino, Springtime wonders of wildflowers and blooming of trees, introspection, or a day off to rest, you will lose your first companions from the initial stretch and then find yourself explaining your "skip" to new found friends after Astorga-pilgrims are a forgiving lot but you may find this unpleasant.
My recommendation? Do 15 days straight, begining or end doesn't matter. See if walking the Camino is something you really want to do. Stop see and enjoy everything natural, spiritual, and human along the way do not skip anything. Then if this is what you want come back and do the other bit. April is perfect, spring all along the way, the Basque country, Navarra, Rioja awakening from winter snow far above on the mountains, Galicia in spring is a riot of color, the countryside marvelous the cities and towns much less. Santiago calls but no need for immediate gratificagtion, Saint James will still be there next year, next decade, and next century.

 

[robhay60]

Its interesting that the Spanish who make up the majority of Pilgrims on the Camino quite often have only 2 weeks as well.. So what many of them do is come back year after year and do a bit at a time. It seems they are not overly worried about doing it all at once. Mind you i did meet many who were doing it in one go but overwhelmingly most just had 2 weeks.. I wonder if this might be an option for you?
My own thinking about what you propose is that you will miss some great "Camino" by missing out the so called "Middle". So keeping in mind there is no right nor wrong "Way " of walking the "Camino"you really cant go wrong... Whatever "Way" you choose will always be right for you... However i would say in looking at the rest of your life , why limit yourself to just 15 days walking on the "Camino"??

There is one thing for sure and that is you will want to come back. This is really beyond doubt! I think i speak for many Pilgrims when i say that the " Camino" stays within us and constantly call us back.. Returning, yes we are always hoping to return one day...

Buen Camino :arrow:

 

[zammy]

Do you think\plan\dream on doing all of the Camino some day? If yes- walk your two weeks in France- starting from Le Puy and each year walk anoter 2 weeks. Or start from SJPDP. walk two weeks etc.
If you are sure that these two weeks will be the only time you do the camino- start from Astorga to Santiago.

 

[Peronel]

So much of the Camino for me was the sense of being part of a great, moving village. The community. The friendships. Even the annoying people who made your heart sink when they walked into the albergue common room.

By skipping ahead you will abruptly dislocate yourself from that. So I echo the advice above. If you think you might come back, then start from ST Jean walk til you're out of time, then return next year. If this is a once off then start two weeks back from Santiago (I reckon Leon not Astorga) and walk fom there.

 

[tyrrek]

All good suggestions. The main reasons why it may not be a good idea are, as already mentioned, losing your newly made friends, and losing time waiting for buses etc.

Depending on where you're flying into it could also take a bit of effort to get to SJPP, so if walking from there make it worthwhile! Personally I also love the section beyond Pamplona, so I would go as far as Logrono before moving on. It also has good transport links to take you to wherever you choose to start your second week walking.

Peronel is right - if you choose just to do one stretch ending in Santiago you could start in Leon, assuming you walk average distances. It's also easy to access by public transport.

Buen Camino!


p.s. Continuing to Logrono would allow you to experience a couple of the memorable sites of the Frances - the Pilgrim Monument and the Fountain of Wine!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It sounds to me like a good plan. You cannot see everything, and you have selected two very scenic sections. Just as you make friends readily at the beginning, you will make friends just as easily from Astorga.

 

[MichaelB10398]

I wish that life were perfect and that all things would work perfectly every time. However, things are not perfect and there is no sense in crying about what could have been or what should have been. We deal with what is and what will be. Given your time limitations you have chosen a very acceptable plan. The thing is to jump in with both feet and no regret anything about your plans or how you have dealt with time limitations. It would not hurt to study about all of the history, art, architecture, etc. along the way and if something really speaks to you, then you can easily make plans to see it and still work within your time parameters. The best advice I can give is to appreciate each day of your Camino; embrace it and squeeze all the joy you can out of it. Know that you are true pilgrims and will have completed a true Camino de Santiago de Compostela in every sense of the word. The more you prepare for it the more you will enjoy it.

God bless you,

 

[jpflavin1]

Holmes9:

There are no bad Camino choices. You should do what you think is best.

That said, imo, if this will be your only trip and you want a Certificate. I recommend you start in Leon and walk a continuous Camino. Leon is approximately 300km's from Santiago. That allows you to walk at about 20km's per day over 15 days. A very doable pace. It gives you time to deal with an injury, develop and maintain a Camino family, dawdle somewhere you find interesting or spend time in Santiago with fellow Pilgrims upon completion.

310km's - 15 days = 20.6km's per day
310km's - 14 days = 22.1km's per day
310km's - 13 days = 23.8km's per day
310km's - 12 days = 25.8km's per day

The average Pilgrim walks 20-25km's per day, imo, depending on age, conditioning, experience etc.
Therefore any of the scenario's above are very doable, imo.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[waveprof]

I think that for the people who really embrace the camino "family" experience, it is hard to imagine that others don't care about that part and may even seek to avoid it. Neither is a wrong path. There hasn't been a "authentic" pilgrim since the Middle Ages (if then). It is about finding what is the right path for you.

~ If you think you can come back and do another 2 weeks in a few years, I'd start at SJPdP (or wherever your camino begins) and go as far as you can, then pick it up where you left off next time.

If you can't or don't want to do that option, then you need to decide if you are likely to be a camino "family" embracer or not. This is hard to determine for SURE until you've been there, but make your best guess.

~If the answer is yes, then pick a straight leg, be it the first 15 days or the last. That decision can partially be made by whether or not a compestella/seeing Santiago are important to you. If yes, then you have to do the end. If not, then take your pick.

~If your answer is no (about the camino "family" being important to your experience), then go with your stated plan. It sounds like a really good one if you don't plan on coming back to do the whole thing and if you aren't majorly committed to the idea of a camino "family"

 

[letendre]

My wife and I were hiking on the camino francès in 2010 and 2012.
If we were in your situation, we would start around Leon. 470 km hiking to reach Santiago. It is better for relations with other pilgrims to walk in one portion. In fact, you will make friends before Pamplona and then you have to leave them and find others in the second part. It is very important meeting people on the way for talking, eating, singing and drinking beer. Fo us, it is even more important
Like us, I'm sure that after your first camino, you will walk another year on the camino. You can start the next time saint-jean-pied-de-port to Leon.

Buen camino to you

http://alaquarelle.wordpress.com/

 

[Tia Valeria]

One way to decide a starting point woud be to decide how far on average you personally can walk in a day, comfortably. For me that is around 15kms. (Some days I can do more.) Then work backwards from Santiago and find a starting place. This might mean walking just a single section to reach Santiago, or it might cover your idea of an early and then late/end section. Whatever it is your Camino. The only thing to remember is that if you want a Compostela you must walk the final 100kms (Sarria onwards) not a cumulative 100kms.
Buen Camino

 

[tyrrek]

I think that for the people who really embrace the camino "family" experience, it is hard to imagine that others don't care about that part and may even seek to avoid it.

Good point. Personally I love to be part of a Camino family and that's a big part of the whole experience for me. But you're right, some people may want to walk alone. We just don't know sometimes from the original posts on this forum exactly what people are looking for, but we can assume that by being on an internet forum they are receptive to the ideas (and possibly company) of other pilgrims. Buen Camino!

 

[Susannafromsweden]

I haven't walked the camino France's, but I'm going to do a part of it this year, after camino de Madrid. And coming to Leon is on my wish list.
If you skip the middle, you won't see it.
There's the cathedral, with the wonderful glass windows. And the basilica San Isidoro, where there are the most fantastic paintings. I'm hoping I will be able too see that.
When I walked vdlp, I had to leave for few days because of work commitments, and then come back. I then lost my camino friend I was walking with. But it wasn't a bad thing (we are still friends anyway) because thanks to that I met other nice and interesting people later. If you lose your friends on the way you will probably find new ones.

 

[Pieces]

depends on why you are there really..

to walk or to arrive ?

 

[alexwalker]

Pieces,

Fantastic question! I will memorize it for future use! The answer to that one should say a lot.

 

[holmes9]

Thank you everyone for your wonderfully thoughtful posts! It's certainly given us much to consider. We have our flights booked already to and from Madrid, but everything else is still very flexible. There are many reasons we want to walk the camino, but I would say the top two are relationship building between my wife and me, and to get away from all of the noise at home (literally and figuratively) and see what we think and feel when there is much less of that to cloud our minds. Some may call it spiritual. I don't know what I will call it when all is said and done, but I hope to leave with something that I didn't begin with.

 

[alexwalker]

There are many reasons we want to walk the camino, but I would say the top two are relationship building between my wife and me, and to get away from all of the noise at home (literally and figuratively) and see what we think and feel when there is much less of that to cloud our minds.

In that case, I suggest you start from the start and walk as far as you can/like. That way, you both have the experience of the Camino. Then, when back home, if it wasn't for you, you have found out.

On the other hand, if this was for you, then you and your wife will have a wonderful time back home, in your new joint (ad)venture,, bonding together in a common experience, planning in cooperation your next stage(s), participating in this (or other) forum(s) as part of a much greater "family" that understands what you're talking about, reading up, etc. Could be a fantastic journey over several etapas! In addition, you would not have reached Santiago (very) prematurely... :wink:

As many say: The way is the goal.

I hope to leave with something that I didn't begin with.

You most likely will...

Pieces asked a very good question above...

 

[nidarosa]

I did the lot from SJPdP to Santiago last year, and even though I have decided to go back once and just walk from Astorga to Fisterra, it doesn't mean I wouldn't love to walk the entire Frances again. Starting somewhere and getting as far as you get, without needing to hurry, and then going back to the same spot next time you have the opportunity, sounds like a great idea. It's what I would do. Consciously planning on skipping a large part of it sounds ... un-Camino to me. Almost like hurrying. But that is just my instant reaction; a personal opinion and not a judgment in any way.

Pieces has a very valid point and I am glad she posted it: I immediately thought 'to walk', and asking myself that has made planning my next trip easier already.

Wherever your Camino takes you I am sure you and your wife will love it!
Buen Camino!

 

[alexwalker]

Nidarosa,

v e r y clever nick: '

Nidaros: the end of the Norw. St. Olavs way: pilgrim way in Norway, from Oslo to Trondheim.
rosa : rose (the a-ending indicates female)

St. Olavs way (in Trondheim) is also the northernmost starting pont on the way to SdC...

My compliments!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidaros_Cathedral

But I deviate from the topic, i know: Sorry... Back on track again!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Consciously planning on skipping a large part of it sounds ... un-Camino to me. Almost like hurrying. But that is just my instant reaction; a personal opinion and not a judgment in any way.

There are parts of the Camino Frances that just don't appeal to me. If I had time constraints, I would skip them in a New York minute. I don't like the Pyrenees. Too much work for just a mountain. However, if you are looking to discover what the first days are like, it is a good choice for YOU. I like the Astorga to Santiago stretch, so you have made a good choice there, too. If you are motivated to get a Compostela this trip, then it won't do you any good to start in SJPdP and walk until you run out of time. Almost no camino "families" stay together for the whole trip, and they all go home at the end, unlike your real family. Making new friends is very easy. It is a very open bunch of people on the camino.

Only you know what you would like to find on your pilgrimage. I suggest you make positive choices instead of anxious ones -- I will lose my camino family, it is un-camino, it will feel discontinuous, etc. Find the positive motivations and ignore the fearful ones. There will be plenty of hard work ahead for you, and there is no reason to drag along a millstone of worry. One of the downsides of advice on this Forum is that it comes from a very subjective place, individual experience. Because I had a great time doing something, I tend to think that you will have a great time, too! Many second caminos are ruined because the pilgrim tries to recreate the first one. The corollary is that you can ruin your first camino by trying to recreate mine.

Pick the plan that you think will have the greatest rewards, then be flexible enough as you walk to change your plan.

Buen camino!

 

[nidarosa]

@alexwalker: Well spotted! I am indeed from Trondheim and hope/plan to walk the Olav's Way one day - maybe from Trondheim to SdC? It's a thought ...

@falcon: Discontinuous. That's a much better word. Un-Camino is not. Like I said, it was my gut reaction; what the Camino was to me was un-hurried, un-stress, un-broken, un-a lot of things. But you are right, a positive spin is always better. So what I will say is that the Camino, to me, was relaxing, calming, joyful. And I enjoyed even the ugly and the hard and the rainy and cold bits, possibly because they were part of the continuous walk. And I enjoyed the pretty bits even more after the ugly ones, just as in life.

Astorga to Fisterra is still my ideal next walk, until I have time to do it all again. That would give you some wonderful walking days, a Compostela, the sea. Whatever you do: Enjoy your Camino!

Linda

 

[alexwalker]

...hope/plan to walk the Olav's Way one day - maybe from Trondheim to SdC? It's a thought ...

The thought has occurred to me too, Linda. It will be a long walk, though... :wink: But LovingKindness has done it...:

long-distance-pilgrims/topic13763.html
long-distance-pilgrims/topic14530.html

All the way from Norway to Spain:

long-distance-pilgrims/topic9259.html

BTW: Tromsø here... :wink:

 

[robhay60]

depends on why you are there really..

to walk or to arrive ?

Wonderful ! i could not agree more!

 

[annakappa]

I have done 5 Pilgrimages to Santiago. The first time was split over 2 years due to time restrictions and frankly, I,m so glad that we returned to Nájera, where we left off the first year and continued to Santiago. We returned twice more to Roncesvalles and walked through to Santiago. We also did a mini Camino after serving as Hospitaleros. However, last year, we started in Jaca on the Aragonés and, again due to time restrictions took the bus on various occasions to try and keep up with our schedule, but did include part of the Meseta. This turned out to be the least satisfactory Camino for me, as it became too much of a convenience.
My opinion would be to either start from where you consider a good starting point and walk as far as you can and then come back another year to continue to Santiago. The other option would be to start in Astorga, which would give you just enough time to arrive in Santiago in your 15 day schedule.Anne

 

[Barbara]

Quote doesn't seem to work.... This is a Quote, OK?

In that case, I suggest you start from the start and walk as far as you can/like. That way, you both have the experience of the Camino. Then, when back home, if it wasn't for you, you have found out.

End quote. Now for my rambling thoghts

Of course you can do that. But where is the start? Home? The same continent? Some small (but pretty) town near Spain which is easy to get to by public transport?

SJPP gives you the border crossing, and maybe some wonderful views. Or maybe not. Depends on the weather. Personally I would suggest either a few days before SJPP to walk yourselves in before the huffing and puffing, or start a little way into Spain. Pampelona comes to mind, but that may be because I am in Uhart Mixe and about to bus it to Pampeluna from SJPP, as I don't want to walk over the top on the road, and there is some serious snow around. It's my fourth camino, and my second from my front door in central France. I'm doing it about three weeks at a time this time round.

Its a personal choice. Whatever you do, don't let anyone tell you it is wrong. I bet any medieval pilgrim who was offered a lift on a passing cart would have accepted with thanks. The Camino is well, different as you advance along it. The Camino Frances comes as a real culture shock when you join it off the Primitivo......You could start in A Coruna if you like and do the Inglese. 100km. Then go to Finsterre.

Enjoy, anyway.

 

[Aldy]

My thought is that the Camino is YOUR Camino - - whatever decision you make, make it the best PORTION of the Camino you can have by fully giving it your undivided attention - make friends, both with the other pilgrims and the locals (locals ARE the Camino supporters, without them it could be a much different experience, I appreciate them very much!). Enjoy the scenery, don't rush just to add kilometers - - fully live each day, regardless of distance.

Chances are, you will want to return at a later date. Many of us do, time after time!
Carpe diem and buen camino !

 

[Olivares]

Since we do not have time for the whole thing.....

is there any reason why this might be a bad idea?

a plan is only a bad idea if it really does not meet the objectives. If your objective is to start in SJPDP and finish in Santiago, well, then it is a sound idea. However, I would step back and actually think a little closer on WHY you feel you HAVE to Start in SJPDP and finish in Santiago. If this is a whim you want to check "DONE" from a list, then it is your Camino so go ahead and do it. However, knowing what I know I would tell you that the Camino is going to get on your head and you WILL be going back to cover the sections you missed. Based on that, I would strongly recommend you start at SJPDP and walk as far as you can with the allotted time. Then, go back and start planning your return. You will anyways :wink:

 

[whariwharangi]

The whole road is a great experience. You don't need to start anywhere in particular and you don't need to finish anywhere in particular.

Santiago itself was almost a disappointment. It was the most crowded and the most tourist oriented place on the road. There were more spectacular cathedrals seen and there were greater works of engineering crossed before I got there. (I will admit the sense of disappointment may have stemmed from having 'finished' the adventure)

If you need to 'finish' then I would recommend the most fantastic place I visited was Finisterra and I was sorry I was unable to carry on to Muxia. Perhaps counting back from there and pass through Santiago on the way there.

 

[MaxfromMO]

Do a little research, decide on the places you really want to walk through and have a blast. It's your Camino, do it however you want.

 

[Dancoyne]

My wife and I have only 15 walking days to work with for our planned camino starting in April. Since we do not have time for the whole thing, we thought we might walk the beginning and the end, and just take a train through the middle. So, perhaps SJPdP to Pamplona, and then Astorga to Santiago. For those of you who have been before, is there any reason why this might be a bad idea?

I just completed the section from Leon to Santiago in Sept. It was a great section to travel and we averaged 15 miles per day but it took us 2 weeks non stop. So you may be over estimating how far you can travel in 2 weeks. If I did it again, I would have walked fewer miles each day so as to enjoy the area more. Its not a race and you can always come back and do another section (I plan to). Buen Camino !

 

[Deleted member 12253]

My wife and I have only 15 walking days to work with for our planned camino starting in April. Since we do not have time for the whole thing, we thought we might walk the beginning and the end, and just take a train through the middle. So, perhaps SJPdP to Pamplona, and then Astorga to Santiago. For those of you who have been before, is there any reason why this might be a bad idea?

My first camino was sjpdep to logrono in May 2010, but I was back in sept 2010 and walked logrono to Santiago and 2011 walked sjpdep to Santiago , finnestere and muxia. Still walking camino usually 20 day, I don't walk last 100 now, too touristy, next year Norte, god willing, you pick your route, no definite start , finish. Buen camino

 

[lbpierce]

Every Camino is a good idea however do consider your reasons for doing this and think about your feelings upon completion-Was this a "real" Camiono? Were we "real" pilgrims?

IMHO, I think we would all be better off if we struck the terms "real" Camino and "real" pilgrims from our vocabulary.

 

[gregpickworth]

I think planning the Camino and skipping the middle is like doing anything and skipping the middle........ You will experience the first bit and the last but not the Camino. A meal...... having a child........ Building a house........
. But hey you will save time and it will be a lot easier...... maybe miss the first part and just do the last bit...... That way it will take up even less time and you will experience the great finish.

Sorry to be a little rude but you get what I mean...... You will be more than repaid for all you put in.

 

[indyinmaine]

Every Camino is a good idea however do consider your reasons for doing this and think about your feelings upon completion-Was this a "real" Camiono? Were we "real" pilgrims? Did our efforts result in only "half" a Camino. You will be missing Puente La Reina, Eunate, Estella, Lograno, Ciiruena, Burgos, the church in Fromista, Carrion de los Condes, Leon, and the meseta which in April is green. You will be forced to complete around 25 kilometers a day-easyily done but not allowing much time for enjoying the view, visiting interesting churches, villages, and towns along the Camino, Springtime wonders of wildflowers and blooming of trees, introspection, or a day off to rest, you will lose your first companions from the initial stretch and then find yourself explaining your "skip" to new found friends after Astorga-pilgrims are a forgiving lot but you may find this unpleasant.
My recommendation? Do 15 days straight, begining or end doesn't matter. See if walking the Camino is something you really want to do. Stop see and enjoy everything natural, spiritual, and human along the way do not skip anything. Then if this is what you want come back and do the other bit. April is perfect, spring all along the way, the Basque country, Navarra, Rioja awakening from winter snow far above on the mountains, Galicia in spring is a riot of color, the countryside marvelous the cities and towns much less. Santiago calls but no need for immediate gratificagtion, Saint James will still be there next year, next decade, and next century.

I agree with Scruffy: do 15 days straight. Personally I found the route from Sarria on to be "lacking" in Camino atmosphere. Perhaps that came because of the increasing numbers. Whatever you do and whatever you skip DON'T skip O Cebreiro. I found it to be the essence of the Camino.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There isn't any "camino." There isn't any middle. There is just a lot of pathway from which you can choose to walk what you like. A starting point has the advantage of experiencing the pilgrimage with like-experienced fellow pilgrims. The final part has the advantage of associating with those who are feeling accomplishment. The stuff in between is what you make of it. Do what you can in the time you have. You will never find the magic that others have found in their special places. For example, O Cebreiro really sucks in the heavy rain. However, a Galician band in the bar suddenly made it special for me, but only in that moment. The band is not likely to be there when you arrive, so it might be just be a wet, windy, cold day that you would gladly skip.

 

[indyinmaine]

There isn't any "camino." There isn't any middle. There is just a lot of pathway from which you can choose to walk what you like. A starting point has the advantage of experiencing the pilgrimage with like-experienced fellow pilgrims. The final part has the advantage of associating with those who are feeling accomplishment. The stuff in between is what you make of it. Do what you can in the time you have. You will never find the magic that others have found in their special places. For example, O Cebreiro really sucks in the heavy rain. However, a Galician band in the bar suddenly made it special for me, but only in that moment. The band is not likely to be there when you arrive, so it might be just be a wet, windy, cold day that you would gladly skip.

I quite agree with falcon except the day I was in O Cebreiro was "a wet, windy, cold day" that I will always remember!