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Slippery When Wet? Trail runners on Portuguese tiled walkways

2020 Camino Guides

design4life

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2014, 2015, 2018); Kumano Kodo (2019); Portugués (2020)
I wore my old reliable Keen hiking shoes three times on the CF and lighter weight Salomon hiking shoes this past year on the Kumano Kodo, not wanting to shlep heavy boots on a month-long trip through Japan. I'm planning to walk the Portuguese this spring and have been considering investing in trail runners, for extra cushioning on the tiled roads and sidewalks. My concern is -- how stable are they in the rain? I love my Sketchers, but here on the sidewalks of New York, I find that when they get soaked my feet slide and squish around inside them and cause me to lose my balance. So -- two questions here. How is the traction of Hokas etc in rain, and if the traction is "too" good, does anyone experience the interior slip-and-slide problem? Thanks.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
It is not the depth of tread that determines traction on smooth surfaces, but the material compounds used in the outersole. The less flexible and stiff the outersole, the more slippery on smoother surfaces.

You mentioned Hokka One One. In general, there are some models, like the Bondi series (I use the version 6. Version 7 will be along shortly) which are very good with wet and smoother surface traction.

When I gear tested the Bondi for Hoka I was very concerned about wet surface and smooth surface traction. As the testing continued, I was pretty amazed at how well they gripped. Even on wet and smooth tracks. When I looked closely at the outersole with a magnifying glass, I readily saw why: there a thousands of micro-sipes on the sole. A sipe is simply a thin slice in the material. The slices remain closed until pressure is applied, then they will slightly open up which exposes hundreds of teeny edges. It is these edges which create the grip.

Softer compounds (relative. . they are not really anywhere near being squishy or spongy) also allow for micro-pitting to occur, which also adds to the traction.

Hokka is not the only shoe manufacturer that employs this technology.

Deeper treads, like shallow lugs, can help with regard to hard smooth surfaces which have a thin layer of slippery debris laying on top. That debris, like sand, sits on top of the hardpan or concrete or asphalt, etc and will act like micro ball bearings. You plant your shoe or boot, and the debris will start slipping over the underlying hard surface. You suddenly slip and 'boom. . . you are on the ground.

This is most dangerous going downhill. . . don't ask me how I know :)

Shallow lugs put focused pressure that tends to do a better job of penetrating through that debris so that it shoves it out of the way. That reduces the amount of slipping.

For shoes like the Hokka Bondi, the micro sipping can help in such a situation, but not as much as with a shallow lug. Conversely, a shallow lug can make smooth or wetted hard surfaces more slippery.

For all shoes, the 'heel plant' is the best method for dealing with down slopes with loose debris over a hard surface. As you step down, make sure you plant the outer edge of your heel first. This will help to force the shoe through the debris layer and better secure your footing as you continue your step forward.

Whatever you do, do NOT land on your forefoot in this situation, as the larger surface allows for wider weight distribution, which is more conducive to 'floating' on top of the debris, which increases the risk of slipping.

and if the traction is "too" good, does anyone experience the interior slip-and-slide problem?
I do not understand what that means. . . could you clarify?
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
@davebugg

I think he means - if the grip underfoot is excellent, will his feet slip and slide within the shoes, when his feet, as opposed to the ground underfoot, are wet ... as happens with his Sketchers.
Then the answer is 'no'. For blister prevention you WANT some slippage of the foot in the shoe. . you want the sock to transfer the shear friction to the shoe, instead of the skin of the foot. If there is no slippage, or very little slippage, that helps to force movement of the sock against the foot.

BUT, one can tighten laces and adjust tension points, to eliminate as much slippage as one chooses regardless of how sticky a shoe's traction may be. Stickiness of traction merely changes how much or how little is done. Unless they are Klown Shoes. . then, all bets are off :)
 

Vacajoe

Traded in my work boots for hiking ones
Camino(s) past & future
2019 Biarritz-Pamplona-Lourdes
2018 Aragon/Frances/Finis
2018 Operation Sabre
2018 Marin Ramble
Love my Altra Timps, but they are TERRIBLE on rainy, slick surfaces like tiles or marble.
 

HeidiL

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2004-), Portugués, Madrid, 4/5 Plata, 1/8 Levante, 1/8 Lana, Augusta, hospitalera Grado.
I used to go to Lisbon several times a year for work, and over the years, brought a lot of different shoes with me. I was very surprised to find that shoes by the same maker, with soles that looked identical, had very different properties regarding slippage. I actually ended up buying new shoes for immediate use while there for a business trip once, after falling three times on the pavements near my hotel.

The information about sipes sounds like a good explanation, davebugg - thanks!
 

design4life

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2014, 2015, 2018); Kumano Kodo (2019); Portugués (2020)
@davebugg Thanks for this very helpful analysis. I had to look up "sipes" but now I get what you're saying. Have you looked at the Hoka Gaviota? It is listed as "maximum stabillity and is the white/pink image attached. I've also attached the Bondi (black/white) for comparison.
 

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design4life

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2014, 2015, 2018); Kumano Kodo (2019); Portugués (2020)
Then the answer is 'no'. For blister prevention you WANT some slippage of the foot in the shoe. . you want the sock to transfer the shear friction to the shoe, instead of the skin of the foot. If there is no slippage, or very little slippage, that helps to force movement of the sock against the foot.

BUT, one can tighten laces and adjust tension points, to eliminate as much slippage as one chooses regardless of how sticky a shoe's traction may be. Stickiness of traction merely changes how much or how little is done. Unless they are Klown Shoes. . then, all bets are off :)
I agree about adjusting the lacing, which I do with my Keens, to keep my feet from slipping forward on downhill and smashing my toe(nail)s. I think also that Sketchers are cheap shoes with little support.
 

Bonita

Member
Camino(s) past & future
September ( 2015)
Love my Altra Timps, but they are TERRIBLE on rainy, slick surfaces like tiles or marble.
I feel the same about my Altra Superior 4. I love the feel (first pair of shoes wide enough), but I almost slid across the marble floor. They’re great for walking around town and the treadmill.
 
Camino(s) past & future
French 13th August 2018
It is not the depth of tread that determines traction on smooth surfaces, but the material compounds used in the outersole. The less flexible and stiff the outersole, the more slippery on smoother surfaces.

You mentioned Hokka One One. In general, there are some models, like the Bondi series (I use the version 6. Version 7 will be along shortly) which are very good with wet and smoother surface traction.

When I gear tested the Bondi for Hoka I was very concerned about wet surface and smooth surface traction. As the testing continued, I was pretty amazed at how well they gripped. Even on wet and smooth tracks. When I looked closely at the outersole with a magnifying glass, I readily saw why: there a thousands of micro-sipes on the sole. A sipe is simply a thin slice in the material. The slices remain closed until pressure is applied, then they will slightly open up which exposes hundreds of teeny edges. It is these edges which create the grip.

Softer compounds (relative. . they are not really anywhere near being squishy or spongy) also allow for micro-pitting to occur, which also adds to the traction.

Hokka is not the only shoe manufacturer that employs this technology.

Deeper treads, like shallow lugs, can help with regard to hard smooth surfaces which have a thin layer of slippery debris laying on top. That debris, like sand, sits on top of the hardpan or concrete or asphalt, etc and will act like micro ball bearings. You plant your shoe or boot, and the debris will start slipping over the underlying hard surface. You suddenly slip and 'boom. . . you are on the ground.

This is most dangerous going downhill. . . don't ask me how I know :)

Shallow lugs put focused pressure that tends to do a better job of penetrating through that debris so that it shoves it out of the way. That reduces the amount of slipping.

For shoes like the Hokka Bondi, the micro sipping can help in such a situation, but not as much as with a shallow lug. Conversely, a shallow lug can make smooth or wetted hard surfaces more slippery.

For all shoes, the 'heel plant' is the best method for dealing with down slopes with loose debris over a hard surface. As you step down, make sure you plant the outer edge of your heel first. This will help to force the shoe through the debris layer and better secure your footing as you continue your step forward.

Whatever you do, do NOT land on your forefoot in this situation, as the larger surface allows for wider weight distribution, which is more conducive to 'floating' on top of the debris, which increases the risk of slipping.



I do not understand what that means. . . could you clarify?

Thanks for that info Dave. I have been wearing in a pair of Hoka bondi version 6 for the De La Plata starting late March and I thought that they were slippery on cobbled type surfaces. I will try the heel first method and see if that helps. I notice that the hoka has a pronounced bevel at the heel and wonder if this will help or hinder.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
Thanks for that info Dave. I have been wearing in a pair of Hoka bondi version 6 for the De La Plata starting late March and I thought that they were slippery on cobbled type surfaces. I will try the heel first method and see if that helps. I notice that the hoka has a pronounced bevel at the heel and wonder if this will help or hinder.
If the cobbled surfaces are exposed to traffic, bicycles, farm machinery, etc they can be coated with films of stuff that make them more slippery to walk on. I am always careful in this type of situation. Sometimes it isn't an issue, but other times it can be like ice :)

The heel technique may help, but go slow with it until you determine it is working in that type of situation.
 

surya8

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Portugues Central and Coastal 2017 & 2019; Portugues Interior, Sanabres, Fisterra & Muxia 2018
I'm planning to walk the Portuguese this spring and have been considering investing in trail runners, for extra cushioning on the tiled roads and sidewalks. My concern is -- how stable are they in the rain?
I walked 2 Caminos in the same trail runners in Portugal, in total 900+km, in June and January. Had plenty of rain and some torrential downpours in them. These are the budget Calenji KeepRun ones from Decathlon that I bought in Porto just 1 day before starting the Camino. So didn't have a try run, though they behaved well - no blisters at all on those 2 Caminos and they still look almost new. Anyway, the only trouble with them was for a few days of the first Camino as they proved to be very slippery on the wet cobblestones. I had them only 0.5 size larger then my feet so they didn't slip inside the shoe. It took several days of walking on different surfces - in the rain that we had from the very start of the walk - to break them: the soles got much less slippery and it was comfortable to walk in them later. Though at the begining I had to walk slowly and carefuly, it almosy felt like ice-skating or skiing at times :) So if you have a chance to break yours in before the walk then you are in luck!
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
@davebugg Thanks for this very helpful analysis. I had to look up "sipes" but now I get what you're saying. Have you looked at the Hoka Gaviota? It is listed as "maximum stabillity and is the white/pink image attached. I've also attached the Bondi (black/white) for comparison.
I believe “maximum stability” relates to the structure of the shoe itself ... that is, how it ‘holds’ the foot ... rather than how the outsole behaves on wet surfaces.

... but I could be wrong ...
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
It took several days of walking on different surfces - in the rain that we had from the very start of the walk - to break them: the soles got much less slippery and it was comfortable to walk in them later. Though at the begining I had to walk slowly and carefuly, it almosy felt like ice-skating or skiing at times :) So if you have a chance to break yours in before the walk then you are in luck!
That is something that is a great observation, and one I forgot to address. The initial wear and tear on the outersole.

I have sometimes used large grit sandpaper to 'pre-scuff' the outersoles for the very reasons that you benefited from the wear/break-in of the sole. The manufacturing process can leave a bit of a 'hardened' thin surface that can be slick on wet surfaces. It usually wears off with a bit of walking, but you can also accelerate the process manually, too.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
I believe “maximum stability” relates to the structure of the shoe itself ... that is, how it ‘holds’ the foot ... rather than how the outsole behaves on wet surfaces.

... but I could be wrong ...
I missed that, but indeed you are correct in the interpretation. When a shoe is referred to for 'stability', it is about motion control and pronation control.

Many shoes touted for stability will use a wide sole at the back which extends beyond the upper.
 

design4life

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2014, 2015, 2018); Kumano Kodo (2019); Portugués (2020)
Thanks for all the info and observations. I'm not a getting a great feeling from you all for trail runners and am wondering whether just to wear my clunky old Keens. The thing is: Even in the Keens I slipped on one of those tiled curbs leaving Burgos in the rain in 2015 and landed in the ER with a smashed wrist. So I'm kinda spooked about slipping. The heel first technique makes sense.
 

Colette Z

Happy Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
CF- Finisterre-Muxia 03/17; Camino SK 10/17; Norte 03/18; Ingles 11/18; Augusta 03/19
I wore my old reliable Keen hiking shoes three times on the CF and lighter weight Salomon hiking shoes this past year on the Kumano Kodo, not wanting to shlep heavy boots on a month-long trip through Japan. I'm planning to walk the Portuguese this spring and have been considering investing in trail runners, for extra cushioning on the tiled roads and sidewalks. My concern is -- how stable are they in the rain? I love my Sketchers, but here on the sidewalks of New York, I find that when they get soaked my feet slide and squish around inside them and cause me to lose my balance. So -- two questions here. How is the traction of Hokas etc in rain, and if the traction is "too" good, does anyone experience the interior slip-and-slide problem? Thanks.
I’m wintering in the Algarve right now not on the Camino but walking with my dog 15 km daily. I wear Hoka One Bondi trail runners. In 5 weeks I’ve walked both wet and dry, steep and flat, with and without poles on roads, sand, cobblestone, mud, stone paths, dirt, cement.....ever possible surface except water 🤣 and I’m sold on my Hokas.
 

Texas Walker

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte (2017-18)
Portugues (2015)
Frances (2014)
Thanks for all the info and observations. I'm not a getting a great feeling from you all for trail runners and am wondering whether just to wear my clunky old Keens. The thing is: Even in the Keens I slipped on one of those tiled curbs leaving Burgos in the rain in 2015 and landed in the ER with a smashed wrist. So I'm kinda spooked about slipping. The heel first technique makes sense.
The manufacturers use different sole types on different shoes.

My new shoes are Hoka Speedgoat 3 (?) which has a wide sole at the outside of the heel and which when I walked in them I actually felt the shoe pushing back against my tendency to supinate (opposite of pronate, rolls out) and on our pilgrimage to Israel--bus type, not walk--I wore them all day every day to test them out. There was a surprising amount of the endless stone pavements that had wet surfaces for one reason or another. The Megagrip soles are my friend, they grip well on wet surfaces.

After DH fell on the first part of our Norte, breaking his leg, because we had "regular" Vibram soles, we switched to the wet-grip sole type. On our return to the Norte the next year, we benefited a lot from that decision.

YMMV. Buen camino.
 

Colette Z

Happy Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
CF- Finisterre-Muxia 03/17; Camino SK 10/17; Norte 03/18; Ingles 11/18; Augusta 03/19
It is not the depth of tread that determines traction on smooth surfaces, but the material compounds used in the outersole. The less flexible and stiff the outersole, the more slippery on smoother surfaces.

You mentioned Hokka One One. In general, there are some models, like the Bondi series (I use the version 6. Version 7 will be along shortly) which are very good with wet and smoother surface traction.

When I gear tested the Bondi for Hoka I was very concerned about wet surface and smooth surface traction. As the testing continued, I was pretty amazed at how well they gripped. Even on wet and smooth tracks. When I looked closely at the outersole with a magnifying glass, I readily saw why: there a thousands of micro-sipes on the sole. A sipe is simply a thin slice in the material. The slices remain closed until pressure is applied, then they will slightly open up which exposes hundreds of teeny edges. It is these edges which create the grip.

Softer compounds (relative. . they are not really anywhere near being squishy or spongy) also allow for micro-pitting to occur, which also adds to the traction.

Hokka is not the only shoe manufacturer that employs this technology.

Deeper treads, like shallow lugs, can help with regard to hard smooth surfaces which have a thin layer of slippery debris laying on top. That debris, like sand, sits on top of the hardpan or concrete or asphalt, etc and will act like micro ball bearings. You plant your shoe or boot, and the debris will start slipping over the underlying hard surface. You suddenly slip and 'boom. . . you are on the ground.

This is most dangerous going downhill. . . don't ask me how I know :)

Shallow lugs put focused pressure that tends to do a better job of penetrating through that debris so that it shoves it out of the way. That reduces the amount of slipping.

For shoes like the Hokka Bondi, the micro sipping can help in such a situation, but not as much as with a shallow lug. Conversely, a shallow lug can make smooth or wetted hard surfaces more slippery.

For all shoes, the 'heel plant' is the best method for dealing with down slopes with loose debris over a hard surface. As you step down, make sure you plant the outer edge of your heel first. This will help to force the shoe through the debris layer and better secure your footing as you continue your step forward.

Whatever you do, do NOT land on your forefoot in this situation, as the larger surface allows for wider weight distribution, which is more conducive to 'floating' on top of the debris, which increases the risk of slipping.



I do not understand what that means. . . could you clarify?
Thanks @davebugg for your explanation why I’ve found my Hoka One One Bondi feel and function so well on multiple surfaces under various climatic conditions. I developed a metatarsalgia on my extremely wet El Norte in 2018 that has plagued me since but since starting to use my Hokas plus custom orthotic I’m pain free. I like your observation re less lugg. Again love your knowledge.
 

Faye Walker

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
It is not the depth of tread that determines traction on smooth surfaces, but the material compounds used in the outersole. The less flexible and stiff the outersole, the more slippery on smoother surfaces.

You mentioned Hokka One One. In general, there are some models, like the Bondi series (I use the version 6. Version 7 will be along shortly) which are very good with wet and smoother surface traction.


...................<<snip>>

For all shoes, the 'heel plant' is the best method for dealing with down slopes with loose debris over a hard surface. As you step down, make sure you plant the outer edge of your heel first. This will help to force the shoe through the debris layer and better secure your footing as you continue your step forward.

Whatever you do, do NOT land on your forefoot in this situation, as the larger surface allows for wider weight distribution, which is more conducive to 'floating' on top of the debris, which increases the risk of slipping.<end quote>


Thank you for confirming what I had suspected. I have 3 different boots I wear at home.... My Merrills have a vibram sole that is quite rigid, and my Salomans have a similar sole. I decided to leave both of those at home even though the vamp and last in each is very comfortable, and doesn't have the excessively (for me) wide toe box of my Keens. But my Keens have a softer sole. They wear pretty quickly, generally smooth on the heel at about 1250-1500 K every single time. They do not, however, slip on sheer surfaces or on wet leaves that have fallen onto concrete walkways, nor even much on the wed shale like one finds on the descent into Molinaseca.

Cheers.
Faye
 

Re-tired

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
Since your question was specifically about Hoka trail runners and not Hoka road running shoes, I can tell you I have worn both the Stinson ATR 3 & 4, as well as the new Speedgoat model. The Stinsons are the lightest and have the most cushion but are slippery on smooth, wet surfaces. The Speedgoats have a little less cushion but have Vibram outsoles and grip like nobody's business in ALL conditions. If you are worried about slipping, these are your best bet in the Hoka line. As for internal slipping, you should employ a "runners hitch" style of lacing the shoes. Even though the Hokas have a nice big toe box, which helps eliminate some blisters by allowing for the expansion of your feet after 6 to 8 hours of hiking, the runner's hitch keeps my feet firmly planted in the shoe. My wife and I both use the Bondi road running model in the gym but I wouldn't recommend it for any offroad applications.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
My wife and I both use the Bondi road running model in the gym but I wouldn't recommend it for any offroad applications.
A lot of folks who choose either the Speedgoat or the Stinson will certainly find them to perform well. . .if they like the fit and feel of the shoe. My son, who really liked the Salomon XA Pro 3D hiking shoes when we did the Colorado Trail together, decided that the Speedgoats were terrific when we did Camino Frances in 2017, and again in 2018.

A lot of backpacker's, including myself, do use the Hoka One One Bondi. I've personally used the Bondi vs 5 to thru hike the Colorado Trail and now have over 2000 trail miles on the Bondi with the version 5 and the 6.

I've used the Bondi on three Caminos as well, and my wife Jill found them a wonderful shoe during the Camino Ingles last October. Even when it was raining every day :)

For those who do not need aggressive motion control, I find that the Bondi can work quite well.

When gear testing various Hoka models for Hoka One One, one of the fascinating things was to learn that many of the trail models share the same basic structural platform as their street running cousins. Materials, cushioning, and structural components are identical. The biggest differences is the placement of the bottom curve.

That 'curve' is designed to assist with maintaining a proper follow through with one's gait while in motion. Most running shoes (trail or street) have a form of this design built in. It is called various names by different manufacturers. For Hoka, it is called 'Meta-Rocker'.

Because the gait of is a bit different when running and walking in both stride and length, shoes designated for running usually will have the 'curve' a bit more forward than in a shoe designated for walking. For someone who is walking, where the 'curve' is placed has less of an effect on stride, than for a runner. And there are any number of discussions and arguments about whether it really matters at all.

The most distinguishing difference between a Hoka shoe like the Stinson and the Bondi, is the outersole. Beyond that, they are nearly identical in most other aspects. The other is the width of the Bondi vs the Stinson.

For some reason that only the marketing folks know, most of the extra wide width shoe offerings for the more cushioned shoes, especially, are in the road running versions, like the Bondi. Hoka tends to run on the wider side in their regular widths, but if you want a shoe in an extra wide width, the offerings are more limited.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
I had a two spectacular slip and falls on wet Portuguese stone sets, due in part to the lack of traction of the soles of my sandals. Very hard, very tough, look as new after 1000km, but that "steel" like surface sure can slide...
If I were to walk the Portuguese again I'd try a pair of good old fashioned Dunlop Volleys. Renowned for their grip.
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
I had a two spectacular slip and falls on wet Portuguese stone sets, due in part to the lack of traction of the soles of my sandals. Very hard, very tough, look as new after 1000km, but that "steel" like surface sure can slide...
If I were to walk the Portuguese again I'd try a pair of good old fashioned Dunlop Volleys. Renowned for their grip.
Ouch!!! 🥺
Which sandals have you used on the Portuguese, Kanga?

Teva Terra fi (not the Lites) are the only sandals I’ll wear on our slippery coastal rocks ... otherwise, it’s bare feet!

But I’ve not tried the Vibram soles of my Chacos on them yet.
 

Hilarious

Hilarious
Camino(s) past & future
Planning stage Camino Frances from SJPdP (Sept. 2019)
Interesting and thoughtful comments. I also think being aware of the hazardous nature when wet of some of the tiles in cities can really help. On my Camino in September I slipped over coming out of Leon in the rain and broke my wrist. I wasn’t paying as much attention to how I was walking as I had done out on the trail. I will take just as much care in cities as in the country in future!
 

Mycroft

Active Member
I wore my old reliable Keen hiking shoes three times on the CF and lighter weight Salomon hiking shoes this past year on the Kumano Kodo, not wanting to shlep heavy boots on a month-long trip through Japan. I'm planning to walk the Portuguese this spring and have been considering investing in trail runners, for extra cushioning on the tiled roads and sidewalks. My concern is -- how stable are they in the rain? I love my Sketchers, but here on the sidewalks of New York, I find that when they get soaked my feet slide and squish around inside them and cause me to lose my balance. So -- two questions here. How is the traction of Hokas etc in rain, and if the traction is "too" good, does anyone experience the interior slip-and-slide problem? Thanks.
I sure don't like to slip but I have no experience with Hokas. I will add that I had excellent low-cut hiking shoes that were waterproof and I did not have sweaty feet. Despite their great sole, those cobblestones in Portugal just about did me in!
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
Ouch!!! 🥺
Which sandals have you used on the Portuguese, Kanga?

Teva Terra fi (not the Lites) are the only sandals I’ll wear on our slippery coastal rocks ... otherwise, it’s bare feet!

But I’ve not tried the Vibram soles of my Chacos on them yet.
My beloved Ecco Offroads. Ecco.jpeg
 

design4life

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2014, 2015, 2018); Kumano Kodo (2019); Portugués (2020)
I've narrowed options to Hoka Bondi or Hoka Speedboat. From this thread, I see advantages of each -- microsipes (perhaps with a bit of sandpaper/break-in time) vs narrow lug. Ultimately I'm worried about slips and falls, due to past history. Any final thoughts about one vs the other, specifically on wet cobbestone/tiles of Portugal? Walking Porto to Santiago, so will be on Spain side for second half. Thanks so much, and sorry for any seeming redundancy on question.
 
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wjohnk

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Portugese Coastal (2019)
At College 60 years ago I was taught that "high hysteresis" rubber gripped much better on smooth surfaces. It looks identical to ordinary rubber but does grip better. The problem is to find shoes and/or boots with this! Also do consider trekking poles. They do help.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2015 entire CF, Porto and CF again in Feb 2020
I wore my old reliable Keen hiking shoes three times on the CF and lighter weight Salomon hiking shoes this past year on the Kumano Kodo, not wanting to shlep heavy boots on a month-long trip through Japan. I'm planning to walk the Portuguese this spring and have been considering investing in trail runners, for extra cushioning on the tiled roads and sidewalks. My concern is -- how stable are they in the rain? I love my Sketchers, but here on the sidewalks of New York, I find that when they get soaked my feet slide and squish around inside them and cause me to lose my balance. So -- two questions here. How is the traction of Hokas etc in rain, and if the traction is "too" good, does anyone experience the interior slip-and-slide problem? Thanks.
i prefer Keens. Upper ankle is almost a necessity. I do alot of PCT section hikes. Doing the Portuguese Coastal route in February with the Keens. Poles are essential for balance - esp when tired and on slick tiles.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
I've narrowed options to Hoka Bondi or Hoka Speedboat. From this thread, I see advantages of each -- microsipes (perhaps with a bit of sandpaper/break-in time) vs narrow lug. Ultimately I'm worried about slips and falls, due to past history. Any final thoughts about one vs the other, specifically on wet cobbestone/tiles of Portugal? Walking Porto to Santiago, so will be on Spain side for second half. Thanks so much, and sorry for any seeming redundancy on question.
Either will work suitably well. Now that you are making an 'Either-Or' choice, it is important to focus on which provides the best fit, and is the most comfortable.

If you feel that you need, or want, a wider width to the shoe, the Bondi will take center stage. The amount of and types of material Hoka uses in that shoe for cushioning will do a terrific job of isolating the sole of your feetsies from the roughness or debris of the surfaces you walk on.

The SpeedGoat will also work well. It does have deeper lugs which can be a bit more grippier on soft surfaces like dirt paths. It is less cushioned than the Bondi, if more cushioning is important. For hard surfaces, I think the Bondi provides a bit better traction.

However. . . .

There IS a Hoka shoe that combines some of the characteristics of both shoe models into another of their shoes. . The Women's Stinson ATR 5. It has a deeper lug pattern on the outersole, and has the cushioning of the Bondi is slightly lighter than either the Speedgoat or Stinson. BUT. . .

Both the Bondi and the Speedgoat come in a Wide width. The Stinson ATR only offers the regular width.

So IF the regular width offers a good and comfortable fit, then you might try the Stinson ATR model of Hoka as they share the positive characteristics of both models.

If you need a Wide width, then the Speedgoat or Bondi.

If you need or want more cushioning, than the Bondi.

I think the differences in traction on hard surfaces might slightly favor the Bondi; on dirt surfaces, the edge to the SpeedGoat.

Over the last two years, my son uses the SpeeedGoat for our backpacking and Camino trips. I use the Bondi. Both of us have happy feet. :)
 
Last edited:

Coo

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to walk in September, I think from Porto
Hi, has anyone walked in the Hoka Challenger Atr 5 trail shoes?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués Porto'17,Lisbon'18
Inglés A Coruña y Ferrol '18
Invierno'19
Hi, has anyone walked in the Hoka Challenger Atr 5 trail shoes?
Hi,
My son and I both walked the invierno last year wearing the Challenger Atr 4, we both have been happy. I have just bought a 5 to wear when the 4 wears out, I don't notice a big difference between the 4 and 5 walking around the house, haven't tried them in the wild yet.
Buen camino,
MaryEllen
 
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davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
Hi,
My son and I both walked the invierno last year wearing the Challenger Atr 4, we both have been happy. I have just bought a 5 to wear when the 4 wears out, I don't notice a big difference between the 4 and 5 walking around the house, haven't tried them in the wild yet.
Buen camino,
MaryEllen
Basically, v4 and v5 are very similar. Hoka barely modified the v5, but improved the Last ('foot' model) to try and deal with some concerns about the fit of the shoe, and increased the stability a bit by modifying the heel cup and cushioning to the rear of the shoe.

If someone had a good fit and like the feel of the ATR v4, they should also find the v5 a good match.
 

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