Snakebit!

[Rebekah Scott]

A Swiss hospitalera this week in Otur (just outside of Luarca) was bitten by a poisonous snake while gardening. She´s been released from hospital and will return home to Basel next week.

And the very same day I see this news item: a Czech pilgrim was bitten by a viper last week near Llanes! http://www.lne.es/centro/2012/08/06/camino-santiago-envenenado/1280677.html

These are the very first reports I have heard of snakebites on any camino... and on the same day. No reason to run away screaming, but be careful out there, people!

Reb

 

[lovingkindness]

In France along le Voie de Vezelay most of the gites de Pelerin have warning notices pasted about snake bites & Vipers...and when I was in Fuenterroble dS (VdlP)one day a snake slithered up from under the floor boards. Blas and Esteban stomped about in a macho fashion trying to catch the thing but it slid out of sight behind the oven. Apparently the snakes eat the mice and the skinny cats have a go at eating both.

 

[dougfitz]

There is a lot of good advice around on avoiding snakes and snakebite. Remember that most snakes are shy, and if you give them enough warning, will avoid you. How do you warn them? Walk noisily if you are alone, talk if you are in company. A simple internet search on a term like 'avoiding snakes' gives a wealth of material to add to this simple first rule of avoidance.

Regards,

 

[Trudy]

Coming from rural Australia, where all snakes are considered lethal, I'm wondering just how venomous Spanish snakes are. Somehow I don't think Spanish snakes would be quite as dangerous.

I did see two beautiful snakes, entwined so no doubt fighting, on the edge of the wheat field around Eunate church in early May 2006. While I managed to get a shaky photo, I didn't like to get too close to them.

Trudy

 

[dougfitz]

According to this site http://www.practicalspain.com/spanish-reptiles.htm there are 13 snakes species native to Spain, five of which are venomous. There are several viper species, all of which have potentially fatal bites.

I would think treating every snake as potentially venomous makes good sense.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

And just to put this in perspective...I´ve walked all over Spain and most weeks I am out for a day on one of the routes. ONCE in 2006, outside of Sevilla I encountered a snake sunbathing on a trail. It aslithered off when it heard me coming.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

You can see what to watch for here:

http://www.ruralspain.info/snakesinspain.htm

 

[Whalleyranger]

I've seen a few snakes on the CF. Once on the path along the industrial estate between Leboreiro and Melide, which vanished almost as soon as I saw it.

The second time I was sitting with my feet in the river at the playa fluvial in Vega de Valcarce and the thing swam right towards me. No-one told me they could swim!

I have never moved so fast.

 

[newfydog]

As far as poisonous snakes go, the vipers of Europe are pretty gentle. During WWII a lot of grain went unharvested. This lead to a rat explosion, followed by a viper overpopulation. A friend of mine, who was about nine years old at the time, would work for the farmers collecting them for a few centimes a snake. He gathered them by the sackfull and was never bitten. His parents did wonder where he got all that money for candy and Tin-Tin comics.

 

[TerryB]

We took this pic of a viper (Adder) some years ago in Cornwall (UK). We actually shooed it off the road while a car waited for us! The only real danger is when suddenly sitting down or picking up sticks or logs - hence gardening! Give the creatures due warning and they will get out of your way.
However, it is one more argument for wearing boots We were at the time!

The second time I was sitting with my feet in the river at the playa fluvial in Vega de Valcarce and the thing swam right towards me. No-one told me they could swim!

That would be a 'Grass Snake' (Ringed Snake) easy to tell - it has a yellow collar behind its head and is harmless.

Blessings
Tio Tel

 

[Peter Robins]

I did see two beautiful snakes, entwined so no doubt fighting

are you sure they weren't mating??

None of the European snakes is particularly aggressive (unlike some of the tropical ones). You're only likely to be bitten if you tread or worse sit on one, or spend your time turning over stones or delving into tree roots or other places snakes hang out. Even if you're bitten it's unlikely to be fatal. You are not the snake's prey, so it won't waste its venom on you.

 

[newfydog]

I did see two beautiful snakes, entwined so no doubt fighting

are you sure they weren't mating??

Ladder snakes "doin it in the road" on the Menton-Arles route. These guys are not venomous, but they are fairly common and put on quite a show hissing and lunging at you. Just step around them if you are lucky enough to see one.

 

[efdoucette]

Enough with the snakes already, your killing me!

 

[Alexandra]

I start walking from Granada on Sept 19. Until today I had not even considered meeting a snake !! Coming from Australia, I have sighted many snakes , but I sincerely hope I don't meet any in Spain !! I must now add another thing to my " to do " list-----care of a snakebite.

Buen camino to any pilgrims who are on the trail.

Sandra

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Likely a worse hazard:

Hairy Caterpillars / Processional Caterpillars

These usually come out to play around October throughout till February. You know when the caterpillar season has started by the cotton wool looking balls in the pine trees. These are the Processional Caterpillar nests, the nests start very small but after only a few days can be the size of footballs. The caterpillars come out to feed as the temperatures begin to cool in the evening, but they can still be found in the heat of the day. They are easy to spot on the ground, they walk nose to bum. Hundreds of caterpillars marching in a single file line, a fantastic but deadly sight. They hibernate during the summer months and can stay in the ground for up to four years until the temperature is right for them to come out. They do not bite or sting. They are covered in very fine hair, which they shed instantly they are disturbed, these fine hairs are suddenly airborne and if they touch somebodies skin, a rash will form within minutes, spreading through the entire area. When an animal sniffs them, the hairs can get lodged into their nose and throat causing suffocation. The Spanish can be seen cutting down and burning nests throughout Autumn. If you have been in contact with these, seek medical attention immediately, they will either give you an injection or a tablet for younger children, do not rub the infected area, you will spread the rash. Warn your children about these, they are not pleasant. If you find them in your garden, carefully collect them with a shovel and burn them.

Snakes

If you hear someone shout, "Serpiente" - watch where you are treading.

Whilst there are many snakes in Spain, they are mainly found in the mountainous and heavily forested areas. The most dangerous period is in the spring and summer as they hibernate during the cooler months of autumn and winter.

Generally speaking, snakes are rarely seen (unless you are a hill rambler) and very few people are bitten.

Please note: The Spanish population is over 40 million, expanding each year by the same number of tourists to 80 million people.

Deaths from snake bite in the whole of Europe are estimated at about 50 persons per year and only 3 to 6 in Spain. Of these 1 to 3 occur in Catalonia, it being the highest risk area.
These facts give the odds of being a victim of death by snake bite in any part of Spain at more than 13.3 million to 1 or put another way the same odds as winning the UK national lottery. Death by bee or wasp sting is more likely, although still very rare.

Hill Walkers/Rock Climbers: If you are an ardent hill walker, climber, rambler etc you should keep a particular eye out to spot snakes. There are 13 different types in Spain but only 5 of which have venom and only the vipers, they say, can cause death.

Seoane's Viper (Vipera seoanei - víbora de Seoane). This snake is dangerous. It lives in Galicia, León, the Cantabrian coastal strip (Cornisa Cantábrica) and the Basque Country.

Lataste's Viper. Snub nosed. It is present throughout the Spanish Peninsula though nowhere is it common. It is grey, short (around 50cm) and is distinguished by its triangular head and the zigzag pattern on its back. It lives in dry, rocky areas. Be particularly careful when collecting firewood not to stick fingers into holes or crevices as viper bites can be fatal.

Asp Viper (Vipera aspis - víbora áspid). A particularly nasty venomous snake (of Cleopatra fame) it is of the cobra family whose venom can cause death by stopping the heart. If confronted it issues a hissing warning and a jerking movement of its head. It is not prolific in Spain and is thought to be restricted to the Pyrenees.

If bitten seek medical attention immediately.

False Smooth Snake (Macroprotodon cucullatus - culebra de cogulla) I am told this creature is not aggressive and is mainly seen in Catalonia. I still recommend leaving all snakes alone.

The Adder or Common Viper (Vipera Berus) is in most parts of Europe including the UK and Spain. The adder reaches a length of up to 24 inches. Its bite is painful and can be dangerous, particularly to children and older people. It can even be fatal to someone in a poor state of health. If you are bitten, obtain medical assistance immediately.

This snake is not aggressive and moreover it is a rare reptile. If you see one just look but don’t kill it. Stay clear.

The Montpellier Snake (Malpolon monspessulanus) Fully grown adults are blackish, a dark grey or olive with a white underbelly and can grow to over 6ft long. Its rear fangs are poisonous. Its bite is not fatal but is unpleasant and painful, and you are advised to see a doctor if bitten.
This snake lives in open, sunny habitats around the Mediterranean.

Medical treatment: If you are bitten by any venomous snake, remain calm and seek medical attention immediately.

Make an emergency call on your mobile, tel No 112 and try to keep the bite area well below the position of the heart.

Toads

Toads in Spain are very poisonous to animals. If molested they exude a poison from their skin or produce saliva and an animal ingesting this can suffer heart failure. They are not particularly harmful to humans so don't kill them, just keep animals and children away.

Treatment: An infected animal needs urgent treatment by a Veterinary within 40 minutes or death is quite probable.

Please note the emergency number -- 112 for all of Spain.

 

[Thornley]

Hey Trudy, in Queensland they love their green tree snakes, they are harmless and lovely.....until the butcher bird gets them
We had a carpet snake in the ceiling and he was very kind to us with rodents.
We never heard a thing in the ceiling and he died of old age.
They too are harmless however they carry a bit of disease on their teeth if you get bitten.

The most dangerous snake in Australia starts with the letter "" T ""

Safe travels to all and the odds are with you of never seeing let alone being bitten.

 

[Georgina77]

Thanks for these posts I have been wondering about snakes and hope not to see any also but being that I will be there in July I guess I need to brace my self for the un wanted

 

[nellpilgrim]

1. Saw a black cat with a black snake in it's mouth just outside Samos-I couldn't believe my eyes the snake had curled itself up so the cat seemed as if it had a big Salvador Dali moustache!
2. Had to 'despatch' a badly wounded snake (looked like it have been run over by a bike) somewhere beyond Melide.

 

[Lucy Longpath]

I saw 3 snakes on the Camino Frances just recently April/May 2015. 2 of these were on the path, and 1 in the grass at a rest area. I don't know what type they were.

 

[TerryB]

I saw 3 snakes on the Camino Frances just recently April/May 2015. 2 of these were on the path, and 1 in the grass at a rest area. I don't know what type they were.

Here is a pic of a snake we saw in Arriondas in the Picos de Europa on our way home from our camino. (Not on a Camino but near the Salvador). My research suggests that it was an asp but I am open to correction! It was about 7 inches long, but very aggressive. It reminded us of the very much larger Yarará (Fer de Lance) of South America. We were wearing ankle high boots so our feet were safe. I certainly would not want to confront the beast in sandals.



Then there are these friendly little creatures - slow-worms. This one we rescued from the FEVE station platform in Xove as we waited for the train. They are O.K. to handle, provided you know how and can recognise them.



A blessing on keeping your eyes open!
Tio Tel

 

[joe g texas aggies]

Saw two snakes on our second day on the Camino Frances, April 12. We were well outside of Roncevalles, enroute to Zubiri. We almsot stepped on the second snake. Based on my limited knowledge of snakes, I don't think either were poisonous.

 

[Pelegrin]

Terry, for sure it was a viper but i'm not sure the type asp (the most poisonous according to Internet).
Maybe it was the Iberian viper.

 

[jpflavin1]

Another reason to walk Winter Camino's, the snakes are hibernating^^.

 

[waveprof]

Another reason to walk Winter Camino's, the snakes are hibernating^^.

I smiled at this, but because there are many people (my mom included) who are massively scared of snakes, it somes worth reiterating:

It is relatively rare to even SEE a snake in Spain on the Camino, and the vast majority of snakes in Spain are not poisonous. Any time you hike in rural areas, there is a chance.....but this is nothing like where I grew up (near the Appalachian Trail) where snakes are a common and constant concern.

 

[naplesdon]

The first and only snake I have ever seen on the Camino was last month and was only about 30cm long, dried and sitting on a windowsill of a house in Cirauqui. I wanted to take as a trophy but then thought there might be some significance to the owner of the house that it was sitting there.

 

[Lucy Longpath]

Good point. We met them on the via Turonensis and luckily one of us knew how dangerous they can be so we kept our distance. They looked like a snake. They have spread to more Northern parts of Europe in recent years and have become a serious health hazard in some areas, for example in city parks.

We saw a lot of these processional caterpillars on the Camino Frances!! We found them quite fascinating, but I had no idea they were dangerous!!

 

[naplesdon]

They only seem to be a spring time phenomenon. At least that is what I have observed in Biarritz.

 

[Angelo]

I was lead to believe (reading this beloved Forum as a newbie in 2014) that there were no snakes on the Camino Frances.
How surprised was I to see a flat snake (ran over by a car, that is) whilst walking on the bitumen 2 days before Burgos!
Well it sure set things in perspective...Made me realise that although far from Australia (home to the Brown snake, Tiger snake, Taipan, Copper Head, Death Adder and Red-bellied Black snake) when on pilgrimage on the Camino, Spain has snakes too although rarely seen.
After that episode I was always careful about what's on the trail in front of me. So on the ascent from La Faba to O'Cebreiro where the only light I had was the beam from my head torch, I luckily saw a not snake but a Fire Salamander --- and saved it from being trampled by pilgrims walking in the dark.

 

[angulero]

Here is a pic of a snake we saw in Arriondas in the Picos de Europa on our way home from our camino. (Not on a Camino but near the Salvador). My research suggests that it was an asp but I am open to correction! It was about 7 inches long, but very aggressive. It reminded us of the very much larger Yarará (Fer de Lance) of South America. We were wearing ankle high boots so our feet were safe. I certainly would not want to confront the beast in sandals.

View attachment 19412

Then there are these friendly little creatures - slow-worms. This one we rescued from the FEVE station platform in Xove as we waited for the train. They are O.K. to handle, provided you know how and can recognise them.

View attachment 19413

A blessing on keeping your eyes open!
Tio Tel

http://blog.educastur.es/reptiles/escamosos-ofidios/

La primera es una víbora, o eso me parece. Son peligrosas, aunque sólo muerden si se les molesta.

La segunda, según la zona de Asturias en la que estés se llama de diferente manera. En mi zona se llama "esgolancio". No son peligrosos, como has podido comprobar.

The first is a víbora, or so it seems. They are dangerous, but only bite if disturbed.

The second, by region of Asturias you're called differently. In my area it is called "esgolancio". They are not dangerous, as you have seen.


http://www.lne.es/sucesos/2011/08/13/vibora-asturiana-apenas-muerde/1115654.html

La víbora asturiana que apenas muerde
Los expertos ven muy raros casos de picaduras como la que sufrió un niño en Llanes y aconsejan no molestar al ofidio

05:32

La víbora asturiana que apenas muerde
Oviedo,

M. J. IGLESIAS

La mordedura de culebra -previsiblemente de una víbora- sufrida por un niño de 6 años, el pasado miércoles, junto a la playa de Toranda, en Niembro (Llanes), no es habitual. De «anécdota» lo califican algunos expertos consultados por LA NUEVA ESPAÑA. Aun así, hacen algunas recomendaciones para que no se produzca este tipo de accidentes.

El biólogo Roberto Hartasánchez y el veterinario especialista en especies exóticas de la clínica Terán, Valentín Alonso, aseguran que aunque en Asturias conviven dos especies de serpientes venenosas, repartidas por todo el territorio rural, la «Vipera berus» y la «Vipera seoanei», no es frecuente que ataquen a los humanos.

Alonso recalca que se trata de una especie muy abundante que «a medida que se descuida el medio rural va ganando nichos ecológicos en los que ha estado presente desde hace miles de años, en la costa y en el interior», señala.

Se alimentan de roedores y suelen salir de sus guaridas atraídas por el sol. Viven en grietas, entre piedras y troncos de árboles. La costa de Llanes es uno de sus hábitats preferidos, porque allí tienen comida y refugio. Alonso aconseja como medida de precaución no caminar descalzos por el campo. Ambas especies son las únicas venenosas catalogadas en la región. Hartasánchez asegura que no suelen ser agresivas. «Cuanto más veneno tienen, el comportamiento es más pacífico», indica.

El animal no ataca si no se siente amenazado. «Por eso es importante no pisarlas ni intentar tocarlas cuando aparecen en el campo», señala Hartasánchez.

Las mordeduras, que se neutralizan si son debidamente tratadas con los antídotos Pasteur, que se encuentran en centros sanitarios y farmacias, son especialmente problemáticas en niños pequeños, ancianos y personas con problemas cardiacos.

En el Principado de Asturias conviven otras muchas clases de culebras que son inofensivas. Una de ellas, la coronela, tiene incluso escamas carenadas y dibujos parecidos a los de las serpientes, para despistar a los enemigos e intentar confundirse con ellas. Un buen modo de diferenciar un ejemplar venenoso de otro que no lo es consiste en examinar la pupila. La de la víbora es rasgada, como la de los gatos, acostumbrada a la visión nocturna, mientras que las demás la tienen redondeada.

 

[Angelo]

Haha! After reading the link on DougFitz's post, I am thankful that I did NOT pick up that Fire Salamander but just nudged it with my trekking poles out of the trail. I didn't know they were nasty. It was rather cute- black and yellow/orange lizard...

 

[Lucy Longpath]

Haha! After reading the link on DougFitz's post, I am thankful that I did NOT pick up that Fire Salamander but just nudged it with my trekking poles out of the trail. I didn't know they were nasty. It was rather cute- black and yellow/orange lizard...

We also saw one of these on the Camino Frances. I did not know what it was but another pilgrim said they thought it was a salamander. It was a very striking black and orange colour.

 

[Lucy Longpath]

They only seem to be a spring time phenomenon. At least that is what I have observed in Biarritz.

We were on the Camino Frances in April and May, so yes, they are definitely around in springtime.

 

[angulero]

Salamandra, en Asturias se llama Sacavera. Son fáciles de ver sobre todo en otoño y en zonas rurales, en días húmedos o cerca de alguna fuente.

Salamander, in Asturias is called Sacavera. They are easy to see especially in autumn and in rural areas, in wet weather or near any source.

 

[Gillean]

I've seen several snakes on my caminos. Here are three:

This one was big - about 120 cm (4 ft) long or longer - and was seen in 2015 on the Via de la Plata near Campobecerros:


This one was about 40 cm (16 in) long, deceased and found the following day in a toilet stall in the municipal albergue in Laza:


This one, which appears to be a viper, was about 50 cm (18 in) long and was seen in 2016 just before Ponte de Lima (link is only approximate) on the Camino Portuguese. It struck at my walking sticks a couple of times:

 

[Bradypus]

@Gillean I don't know for sure what your first snake is. Certainly not a viper though. Looks very like a Montpellier snake (Malpolon monspessulanus). They grow pretty big and have the fantastic Spanish name of culebra bastarda Venomous but rear-fanged and no danger to humans. I've never seen one in the flesh and have really wanted to for years. I'm very jealous of your luck in spotting it.

Your dead one from Laza is a juvenile Ladder Snake (Rhinechis scalaris) : totally harmless though they do put up quite a grumpy display if they feel threatened. I hope that it was not killed by someone out of fear.

I don't think your final photo is a viper either. Not 100% sure but I think it is a non-venomous Viperine Snake (Natrix maura) which as the name suggests looks very like a viper and is easily and frequently mistaken for one. They do often strike defensively at threats such as your walking sticks. I am near certain that the snake @Terry B posted earlier in this thread seen in Arriondas is the same species. Grumpy behaviour but all bluff. Still a good idea to keep your distance though - partly in case your identification turns out to be wrong , but also to avoid stressing the snake. If it is snapping at your poles you are probably too close for everybody's comfort.

PS. A sure way of telling the difference between Viperine Snakes and the Spanish vipers is their eyes: the vipers have a vertical slit or oval pupil, Viperine Snakes a round one. Of course if you can see this clearly in a live snake you are probably far too close

PPS. Just looked more closely at your last photo. Hard to tell at this resolution but the visible eye looks to have a round pupil. If so then definitely not a viper.

 

[Bradypus]

Here is a pic of a snake we saw in Arriondas in the Picos de Europa on our way home from our camino. (Not on a Camino but near the Salvador). My research suggests that it was an asp but I am open to correction!
View attachment 19412
Tio Tel

Definitely not an asp or any of the other Spanish viper species. Your photo quality is excellent: eyes and head scale patterns are clear and very different from the vipers. 99% certain it's a Viperine Snake - Natrix maura - which is non-venomous but likes to make big defensive displays when it feels threatened.

 

[TerryB]

Definitely not an asp or any of the other Spanish viper species. Your photo quality is excellent: eyes and head scale patterns are clear and very different from the vipers. 99% certain it's a Viperine Snake - Natrix maura - which is non-venomous but likes to make big defensive displays when it feels threatened.

That makes sense! We were on a riverside path and I read that Natrix maura is a "water snake" (as is our English Grass snake). Maybe the only way to tell with any certainty which species is which, is to count the rows of scales . In the Viperine "the strongly keeled dorsal scales are arranged in 21 rows. The ventrals are 147–160;" Our daughter's camera with the high-powered zoom lense may do the job. You won't catch me on my knees trying to count them

PS. A sure way of telling the difference between Viperine Snakes and the Spanish vipers is their eyes: the vipers have a vertical slit or oval pupil, Viperine Snakes a round one. Of course if you can see this clearly in a live snake you are probably far too close

Blessings
Tio Tel

 

[Gillean]

@Gillean I don't know for sure what your first snake is. Certainly not a viper though. Looks very like a Montpellier snake (Malpolon monspessulanus). They grow pretty big and have the fantastic Spanish name of culebra bastarda Venomous but rear-fanged and no danger to humans. I've never seen one in the flesh and have really wanted to for years. I'm very jealous of your luck in spotting it.

Your dead one from Laza is a juvenile Ladder Snake (Rhinechis scalaris) : totally harmless though they do put up quite a grumpy display if they feel threatened. I hope that it was not killed by someone out of fear.

I don't think your final photo is a viper either. Not 100% sure but I think it is a non-venomous Viperine Snake (Natrix maura) which as the name suggests looks very like a viper and is easily and frequently mistaken for one. They do often strike defensively at threats such as your walking sticks. I am near certain that the snake @Terry B posted earlier in this thread seen in Arriondas is the same species. Grumpy behaviour but all bluff. Still a good idea to keep your distance though - partly in case your identification turns out to be wrong , but also to avoid stressing the snake. If it is snapping at your poles you are probably too close for everybody's comfort.

PS. A sure way of telling the difference between Viperine Snakes and the Spanish vipers is their eyes: the vipers have a vertical slit or oval pupil, Viperine Snakes a round one. Of course if you can see this clearly in a live snake you are probably far too close

PPS. Just looked more closely at your last photo. Hard to tell at this resolution but the visible eye looks to have a round pupil. If so then definitely not a viper.

Many thanks! Great information!

 

[Hiawatha]

They're not snakes !
Now this is a Snake !

[ apologies to Paul Hogan ]

 

[Bradypus]

They're not snakes !
Now this is a Snake !

[ apologies to Paul Hogan ]

Good catch! @Gillean 's photo above doesn't give much of an idea of the size and attitude of the Montpellier snake. Big feisty critters! Here's a little YouTube clip that makes it much clearer. Now that really is a snake. And it's in Spain

 

[Bradypus]

Just been re-reading some of the earlier posts in this thread and came across this:
"Asp Viper (Vipera aspis - víbora áspid). A particularly nasty venomous snake (of Cleopatra fame) it is of the cobra family whose venom can cause death by stopping the heart."

Just to reassure anyone who read this and is anxious: Vipera aspis - the European asp - is NOT a member of the cobra family and is NOT the "asp" of the Cleopatra legend. A confusion because a similar name is used. The European asp is closely related to the other two Spanish vipers. It is a very reclusive snake and walkers are most unlikely to encounter one. It is true that Vipera aspis is venomous and in the extremely unlikely event of a bite you should seek medical treatment immediately. However, the warning above is misleadingly alarmist.

 

[Mike Savage]

I came across this one a little east of San Juan de Ortega.
Baskian Viper Vipera seoanei maybe? It moved slowly across the road and could care less about me. I just watched it to make sure it made it off the road and nobody disturbed it.

 

[Mike Savage]

 

[Bradypus]

Certainly one of the three viper species. Do you have a long lens for your camera? - your portrait shot looks very close up. A great image.

 

[Mike Savage]

Thanks Bradypus. No long lenses for me on the Camino. This was shot with a Sony P&S with a 24-70mm equivalent.