Some interesting observations

[Deleted member 3000]

The author thinks he learned from the Camino, but did he?

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/char ... id=3525743

 

[renegadepilgrim]

I thought it was an interesting article and I could relate to some of what he said.

 

[Br. David]

I liked it, I like it very much. very human - taken in the whole I found it honest and felt his emotion

thumbs up from me :wink:

 

[Anniesantiago]

I loved it!
Very honest!

 

[+@^^]

ditto on the loved it bit
now, if they shot a movie with THIS as the story line.....

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Yes, I found it useful.

What the author is struggling with is how do you return to "normality" when your soul is still on the Camino?

Perhaps we cannot bring the Camino to a close because even when the physical journey is done, the spiritual continues.

I have been working on this issue for 13 years now and am still left with more questions than answers.

As a minister of a Protestant Church I had to examine myself and ask, why do you want the plenary indulgence? I went to confession and started by telling the priest that I was a Protestant but I wasn't there lightly or without considerable thought. I fulfilled the penance he laid upon me. I fulfilled all the other conditions. I can't tell you why but having my indulgence is meaningful to me, even though I believe in justification by faith and that it is by God's grace alone that I will get to heaven.

I expect to work on these issues until the day I die.

 

[jennysa]

Yes, I found it useful.

What the author is struggling with is how do you return to "normality" when your soul is still on the Camino?

Perhaps we cannot bring the Camino to a close because even when the physical journey is done, the spiritual continues.

I have been working on this issue for 13 years now and am still left with more questions than answers.

.

Does one's soul ever leave the Camino? I was given a wonderful article written by Father Frank entitled the Post Camino Blues. I can send it to anyone who hasn't seen it? I can post it if it hasn't been on put on this forum before.

I have been irrevocably changed by my experiences on the Camino and still continue to change. I have had my faith reconfirmed and am letting go of the superfluous things in life.

 

[vandrefalk]

You may have a long camino ahead now but it sounds like you made a good start Methodist Pilgrim with one confession and penance and your wonder at the effect of this. I pray your spiritual journey leads you on to resolving these issues, the most essential preferably well before you die. God bless.

 

[markss]

Interesting. But the question is why didn't the guy confess the sin of his desire to murder the little old lady who jumped the queue to get to the confessional ahead of him? Wishing death upon someone, moreover having the desire to be the murderer seems like a rather grave sin. Doesn't the lack of confessing that take away that plenary indulgence? In the end doesn't he lose at his own game? Just a thought.

 

[PadreQ]

First, my confession - I am a priest that hears confessions, and I do make my own - so all of that colors my reaction to this piece.

I think I appreciate the author's difficulty in facing his return to the world post-Camino. My whole world seems to be focused on what lies ahead of me pre-Camino. The call of it is amazing and wonderful! And I agree with markss - what about this guy's murderous thoughts?! And I also think the author does not understand what it is to make a sacramental confession. This guy has not prepared to articulate his own sinfulness.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making an act of Thanksgiving. I rejoice that he found himself moved to that in the end. Praise God! I find that already I too am moved in that direction and I just bought my boots!

But making a confession is something very different. Making a confession is something that should be done carefully, with real premeditation and thorough self-examination, not just by waltzing into the confessional and THEN trying to figure out what to say. He writes, "I don't know what to say to this man." He misses the point - Don't worry about what to say to the priest - What do you have to say to God about what you have done with the life that he gave you? THAT is what he needs to say to God's priest. He may well have thought through all of that as he walked through sun and snow and wind and rain - and he may well have confided his secrets to some passing livestock - so he should have been ready to tell it all to the priest. I confess that I am put off by his waiting until the very last moment to "get it done." He confesses that he is motivated by his desire to get the "goodie," the plenary indulgence. That look on Elena's face, the sad yet happy smile is the face of someone who does get it - and he doesn't know what he is seeing. Of the two, I suspect she is the only one who left with an indulgence - I am guessing that she actually did make her confession. How do I know? It was that look - I know it well. It is the look of someone who has confessed, plain and simple.

 

[ksam]

Or did he...and is it simply is too much to put out in the article...did it simply make better reading this way? Somehow....I think that may be a part of it.

Personally, I loved the article...and probably might not have said anything about my own confession either...somethings are just too close to the bone.

Just a thought, or in kid speak IMHO, Karin

 

[+@^^]

the author missed the point
he need not have harboured blood-thirsty thoughts
anybody knows that using your iPhone
you can download the app for confessions
.
....As of February 2011, one widely publicized example was an "app" for the iPhone called "Confession: A Roman Catholic App".[2]
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession:_A_Roman_Catholic_App

 

[Br. David]

I certainly agree with PadreQ, about intent mainly, as well as realising that the dialogue is between the person and God, the priest being the conduit, as it were, and also of the girl in the story when she returns from the confessional - especially so that - but I do think that we have to read it as a word limited article, published for pay (no reason why not) ... also by what can only be described at the best as a nominal Christian, if at all and definitely not a Catholic in any way .... his urgent desire for self - get that woman out of the way - is most likely how he walked .. fast fast .. and how he has lived his life fast fast ... I think - this is death of the author of course, he may not have meant this - I think that his realisation came at that very last moment in a sudden upwelling surge of helpless gratitude.

I would always go for an upwelling surge of helpless gratitude, an opening door ... :wink:

But now I wonder - who is he now? What is he now? When home did he go to his local Catholic church to talk to a priest about that moment? I earnestly hope that he did. :|

PadreQ - I can see you with your boots! I rejoice in your boots!!

 

[PadreQ]

Brother David,

Thanks! An upwelling surge of helpless gratitude - what a wonderful phrase! I think your observations are spot on. And I do realize this was a piece he was getting paid for - it just punched a couple of my sacerdotal buttons. I do hope he has sought out someone to help him sort what he experienced - it is always helpful to have someone hold up a mirror for you, if for nothing else. Tomorrow I am going to give the new boots a workout. I've been training so far in some Merrell Moab hiking shoes, but I'm thinking I want some ankle support - just for insurance. The new Asolos are a great fit, and I have a month and a half to break them in.

Ksam, I didn't get the impression that he thought he had anything to confess. He made quite a bit out of being speechless when he got into the confessional.

Now aside from that aspect of the piece, I really did like the rest of it - and I enjoyed his description of the walk itself. He writes well!

 

[markss]

Speaking of confession I know it is Spain and the language of the country is Spanish, unfotunately I like many others am not conversant in Spanish. It was very difficult finding a priest in the Santiago Cathedral confessionals who spoke English. It's not that I expect that they should, rather there are some that do but one has no way of identifyling which confessionals that they occupy. I first tried to inquire in the Sacristy area where the priests congregate. Priests and others there were unable to provide assistance.

That left a much time consuming process that involved waiting in queue after queue at various confessionals in the hope of finding a priest who could converse in English. Again, not my expectation that most or for that matter many of them would speak my language, but it sure would be nice if they posted a sign or something indicating the languages spoken by the particular priest at a particualr confessional so people didn't have to wait unnecessarily just ot find that out. Such is done at cathedrals throughout the word that are frequented by international visitors.

Confession is such an integral part of completion of the Camino. Perhaps someone associated with the Cathedral will read this and offer some kind of assistance to others in the future. If nothing else it may cut down on the rate of violence toward little old ladies in confessional queues. Oh what am I thinking, I've experienced the Cathedral crowds. It is most unwise to mess with those little old Spanish ladies in the Cathedral. They will fight to a bloody end, and they will be victorious!

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

A gentleman had brought his mother to confession at the Cathedral. We got talking and he asked did I speak Spanish? No, just enough phrases to get by on pilgrimage. Certainly not enough to make a proper confession. Just before his mother started her confession he went and asked the priest, do you speak English? His reply, better than Spanish. The priest was Italian and he was there to help out because it was the Holy Year.

At the Churchill Hotel in London the staff wear badges showing the national flags of the languages they speak.

I am sure the priests will not want to wear a badge, especially on their stoles.

Perhaps a hook could be put on the confessional wall on which a board could be hung showing the language(s) the priest speaks.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Jennysa, if you could PM the article I would be interested to read it.

I have written a long piece about pilgrimage and vocation which was published by the CSJ, London in their bulletin. It sets out why I believe that the Camino may end as a physical journey but why we continue to be pilgrims even when we return.

However, by saying that I am still seeking answers I can justify the expense and the time spent on going on an annual pilgrimage along some part of the Camino. If I find the answer I may have to stop.

 

[jpflavin1]

Methodist Pilgrim;

The Camino is a Physical Challenge but will always be much more.

I do not see how anyone can not be touched by the signs of past Pilgrims on journeys of Hope. While there are the standard signs of a religious Camino (Churches, Cathedrals, statues and other monuments). The more telling signs are those left by the Pilgrims. The thousands of crosses weaved into fences along the trail. The pebbles and stones brought by Peregrino's from all over the world and left at the iron cross at Cruz de Ferro.

No matter what an individuals reason at the start of this journey, I believe all are touched in some way by these signs of Pilgrimages past. The Camino will always be a spiritual journey. A time where we seperate ourselves from the daily attack of the world we live in on our senses and allow ourselves, for moments at a time, to be grateful for what we have and reflect on the things that are important to us.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Joe.

Good point well made.

I usually do a Camino ritual in reverse.

That is, I take no stone to lay along the way, but I always bring one home.

In 2009 I took a stone off a Camino Inglés km post which had been put there by a pilgrim.

I hope they would understand that I did so not just as a reminder of the place, but because it spoke to me of another, who I will probably never meet, who felt it important enough to lay it there.

If push came to shove I would say it was laid by a young woman and on what was a difficult journey (I was seriously ill but didn't know it) I was conscious of her presence. I walked the Inglés by myself, yet the stone in my pocket spoke of a kindred spirit.

I have put similar Camino thoughts on the thread, are the bones of Santiago in the Cathedral?

 

[Br. David]

Steady now - That is, I take no stone to lay along the way, but I always bring one home.

What some people would say about that :shock: if everyone did it, 120,000 stones at, say, 3 ounces a stone = over 14 tons of stones a year .. in a few years the camino would be a trench, altering the eco-system and separating small wildlife on one side or the other, leading to species specialisation and eventual new distinct species ..... :shock:

etc etc :wink:

(Darwin spins in grave)

 

[Rebekah Scott]

As for confessions in Santiago cathedral...
I have gone twice. One priest was German, there for the holy year. My German is even worse than my Spanish, so he told me to just say it in English, and let HIM struggle to understand... that his understanding was secondary, he was just a conduit, and the grace was to happen between me and God.

The second time was a harried, hurried Spanish priest. He told me to "just do your best, and do it quick!" It quickly turned to a question and answer session, with him asking general "do you have a family, how do you get along with your husband/mother/children" kind of things... It was painless, really. We both just did our best, and quick. It worked.

There is nothing like a real heartfelt confession, though -- face to face, in your own language. That is why I ask the English-speaking priests who stay with us if they will hear a confession while they are around, in lieu of donativo. We have a perfectly good Spanish priest here in Moratinos, but if a Sacrament is worth doing, it is worth doing well.

 

[grilly]

Yes, I found it useful.
As a minister of a Protestant Church I had to examine myself and ask, why do you want the plenary indulgence? I went to confession and started by telling the priest that I was a Protestant but I wasn't there lightly or without considerable thought. I fulfilled the penance he laid upon me. I fulfilled all the other conditions. I can't tell you why but having my indulgence is meaningful to me, even though I believe in justification by faith and that it is by God's grace alone that I will get to heaven.

I expect to work on these issues until the day I die.

Thank you for sharing this here. I find it very moving.

This thread is fascinating for me. I am a Catholic (French by origin, so right there I am at a disadvantage). I have walked the Camino, never with a plenary indulgence in mind. The Camino itself was the treat. Maybe because I first did it in thanksgiving for recovering from breast cancer.

Confessions...

I have confessed many times in my life. The last time I did, the young priest just said: "That's all?" -- as if I needed to invent more sins to be worth forgiving...

I may have been wounded in some strange ways by a couple of priests, but I don't really feel any need to go and confess these days.

Mind you these posts make me think that I could look at my coming time on the Camino this September as a way to revisit my life (once again) and see if there are blots on my soul I want to leave at the altar of the Saint in Santiago.

Thank you for the inspiration.

¡Ultreya et susceia!

 

[grilly]

The author thinks he learned from the Camino, but did he?

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/char ... id=3525743

I expect he did learn what he needed to learn and his learning will probably continue for many years to come. Once we stop walking the Camino, the Camino starts walking us, and it usually becomes quite a journey as well.

So much of the Camino, it seems to be, is among many things an inner cleansing -- and this the author seems to have done. His anger at the old lady at the confessional reminds me of a bout of anger at some saucy cyclists who nearly ran us down as they sped by us, laughing at us -- or so it seemed. I was within a week from Santiago, having come from SJPP, and I heard myself hurling some pretty strong insults at their backs. My reaction did not throw me on my knees begging for forgiveness, but definitely made me feel like a schmuck. So close to the goal, with a pride still so easily pricked! How many Caminos will it take me till I finally reach humility and wisdom?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

reminds me of a bout of anger at some saucy cyclists who nearly ran us down as they sped by us, laughing at us -- or so it seemed

He who laughs last, laughs best. Two cyclists in full Spandex zipped past me, demanding the right-of-way, on the narrow path up to Alto de Perdon. I saw them at the top covered in mud. The hillside had given way under their assault, and they rolled several meters down the hill into the mud and brambles. I doubt that I shall ever be forgiven for the extreme pleasure I took in seeing them, probably because I refuse to ask for forgiveness!

I understand anger and resentment as well as the next person; I just found it curious that it became the topic sentence in a reminiscence of the Camino. My top memory is the generosity of a stranger, not my anger.

 

[grilly]

I understand anger and resentment as well as the next person; I just found it curious that it became the topic sentence in a reminiscence of the Camino. My top memory is the generosity of a stranger, not my anger.

Very true.