- Time of past OR future Camino
- See signature.
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Ok, so earlier this year I walked as part of a group to Santiago along the Norte. Every time is different, which is wonderful.
One of my dearest friends didn't really care about the compostella... she wanted the distance certificate to show how far she walked... she had a detailed journal that kept track of all her kms.
Bummer is she caught Covid about 40% of the way through, and it wiped her out for about 10 days. She walked when she could but had to resort to public / private transportation to keep up with her friends.
After recovery she walked on like a soldier. She diligently recorded her distance traveled by foot again.
When we arrived in Santiago, we all went to the pilgrim's office... she was next to me in line and shared the booth next to me so I heard the conversation...
Her: I would like a distance certificate...
Volunteer: I see where you started... (I think it was Bilbao.)
Her: But I got sick and couldn't walk, so it is less than that...
Volunteer: where did you last take transportation?
Her: I have a record here...
Volunteer: ok, we can only issue a distance certificate based on your last transportation...
Her: but I got sick and I walked a long way before...
Volunteer: we can only issue a distance certificate based on your last transportation...
My friend started to cry. I mean, she had a TOUGH Camino and just wanted her certificate to reflect her actual efforts... she didn't want it to say she walked from Bilbao, she also didn't want it to say she walked from Ribadeo. She qualified for a compostella of course.
I regretted not having experienced this situation before and warning her in advance... I mean... I don't care about the distance certificate... but I still hoard my compostellae.
Now I know. Apparently if you are caught in this situation and you want an accurate distance certificate, calculate your actual kms traveled and figure out the starting point where that would be from. Tell them, yah, I started walking again in Llanes or wherever.
I do not condone lying. I also do not condone rules that don't adapt to reality.
I completely agree. I have not asked for a Compostela or a distance certificate after my recent Caminos either. I do not expect to ask for one after any future Caminos. Partly because I am growing increasingly unhappy with the ever-narrower and more pedantic rules that the pilgrim office operates. But even if I did want a piece of paper from them I would not lie to get it. What value would it have then? I would consider it tainted.I have gotten a compostela twice though I have arrived in SdC in the double digits. If I would not lie to get any document at the pilgrims office, then, every time I would look at it, I would know it was obtained under false pretenses.
It's not clear when this approach started, because both this year and when my wife and I walked in 2016, we received distance certificates that accounted for gaps where we took a bus or train. In 2016, there wasn't any great difficulty from our perspective, but the volunteer at the counter sought assistance with the calculation of the distances involved from one of the supervisors. This year the volunteer passed me over to someone who seemed to have more experience, and who had no difficulty doing the calculations involved.Volunteer: ok, we can only issue a distance certificate based on your last transportation...
Ok, the only reason I said maybe she should have lied is because the truth was not recognized. Your point of "why get a certificate if it's untrue" is exactly my point. She walked a bunch, dealt with a sickness and arrived in Santiago qualified.I completely agree. I have not asked for a Compostela or a distance certificate after my recent Caminos either. I do not expect to ask for one after any future Caminos. Partly because I am growing increasingly unhappy with the ever-narrower and more pedantic rules that the pilgrim office operates. But even if I did want a piece of paper from them I would not lie to get it. What value would it have then? I would consider it tainted.
At this point it doesn't really matter to her. She's living her leadership life in Germany and France... I've been trying to convince her to walk again.Whilst the church authorities have an understandable monopoly on issuing compostellas, a distance certificate is an indisputably secular document.
Perhaps you know someone with an artistic bent who might make a suitable certificate for your friend?
i’ve always been lucky with my experiences at the pilgrim office in Santiago - although now I don’t bother going for a Compostela .(…)I am growing increasingly unhappy with the ever-narrower and more pedantic rules that the pilgrim office operates.(…j
Doug - are you a charmer? Did we just have bad luck? Maybe they were in a hurry for us because it was "ascension day", btw which is a total party if you ever happen to arrive there at that time. My friend explained everything but it was like talking to a brick wall.This year the volunteer passed me over to someone who seemed to have more experience, and who had no difficulty doing the calculations involved.
When I read your post starting this thread, I was surprised because I hadn't had any difficulty either time I did this. On the first occasion, in 2016, I had also taken the credential for my first camino so that I could get the distance certificate for that as well, but that wasn't complicated as on that camino I had walked all the way from SJPP on the CF.Doug - are you a charmer? Did we just have bad luck? Maybe they were in a hurry for us because it was "ascension day", btw which is a total party if you ever happen to arrive there at that time. My friend explained everything but it was like talking to a brick wall.
What was your approach? Why did you succeed while she didn't meet satisfaction?When I read your post starting this thread, I was surprised because I hadn't had any difficulty either time I did this.
Other than explaining that we or I had taken a bus for sections? There wasn't anything else. I cannot help but wonder why there seem to be two quite different results for ostensibly similar sets of circumstances, and what triggered the different ways the pilgrim office staff responded.What was your approach? Why did you succeed while she didn't meet satisfaction?
Mysteries. Oh well. Such as life. I really like your considerate and contemplative responses. Thank you for that.Other than explaining that we or I had taken a bus for sections? There wasn't anything else. I cannot help but wonder why there seem to be two quite different results for ostensibly similar sets of circumstances, and what triggered the different ways the pilgrim office staff responded.
I am not clear on which certificates you are talking about, as you use 3 different terms (bolded above). If they thought your journey did not meet the requirement to "Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search", then they might refuse to give you a compostela, yet still give you a distance certificate (which has no such requirement). What is the "welcome certificate" that you got?I was refused the distance certificate because I'd done my 100+K *too quickly* -- I ran it in one day as an ultramarathon, getting masses of sellos along the way -- but that wasn't considered a proper "peregrination" and they deleted me from the records they'd started filling out. I still got a welcome certificate. I'm not religious, so I didn't want the compostela.
Did anyone tell you what the minimum acceptable time to cover the distance should be? I'd be interested to know if there is any definite policy on that.It wasn't a big deal, but I was refused the distance certificate because I'd done my 100+K *too quickly* -- I ran it in one day as an ultramarathon,
Johnnie Walker was part of the management team for the pilgrim office when an alternative certificate was introduced a few years ago. For those whose journey was not for religious or spiritual reasons. I asked him about it a couple of days ago. He tells me it is still available for those who request one. Deliberately created in a very similar graphic style to the Compostela. I assumed that was the certificate @CharlieWart was referring to.What is the "welcome certificate" that you got?
This is nice to know about. Does it have the same walking requirements as the Compostela?Johnnie Walker was part of the management team for the pilgrim office when an alternative certificate was introduced a few years ago. For those whose journey was not for religious or spiritual reasons. I asked him about it a couple of days ago. He tells me it is still available for those who request one. Deliberately created in a very similar graphic style to the Compostela. I assumed that was the certificate @CharlieWart was referring to.
View attachment 134406
Yes, I believe that it does.This is nice to know about. Does it have the same walking requirements as the Compostela?
Yes it looks pretty similar to that -- I have just looked back and have a picture of it on a webpage I wrote about my adventure (scroll down to the bottom): http://www.wartnaby.org/running/camino/index.htmlJohnnie Walker was part of the management team for the pilgrim office when an alternative certificate was introduced a few years ago. For those whose journey was not for religious or spiritual reasons. I asked him about it a couple of days ago. He tells me it is still available for those who request one. Deliberately created in a very similar graphic style to the Compostela. I assumed that was the certificate @CharlieWart was referring to.
View attachment 134406
I agree with this, but then from a secular perspective, how far you've walked can be interpreted quite literally. So since last time you needed public transport.Whilst the church authorities have an understandable monopoly on issuing compostelas, a distance certificate is an indisputably secular document.
I have been thinking the same thing. Maybe too much effort given the workflow. At the same time, my friend diligently recorded her progress. No effort involved if they were open to the truth. As far as "since the last transport", we'll, all I know is she walked a bunch but would not have been granted an accurate certificate.I agree with this, but then from a secular perspective, how far you've walked can be interpreted quite literally. So since last time you needed public transport.
And from an opposite side, if I had requested such a certificate on my own arrival this week, the poor girl would likely have needed 45 to 90 minutes just to work it out. I don't know exactly myself !!
It's a religious thing, in that if a part of your motivation for your Camino is of that nature, a very old Indult defines it as an intention, not necessarily conscious, towards conversion.Ok, here is a thing I respect from the Pilgrims' office. Spiritual is left to the applicant's definition.
I am a non Christian. But I believe in loving my friends and all people met... and doing "the right thing".It's a religious thing, in that if a part of your motivation for your Camino is of that nature, a very old Indult defines it as an intention, not necessarily conscious, towards conversion.
One consequence of it is that unbaptised foot pilgrims can even be given church burials should they die along the Way.
But yes, it also means that non-Christians are eligible to get a Compostela, from such intent.
BS is a universal danger.I am a non Christian. But I believe in loving my friends and all people met... and doing "the right thing".
This gets way beyond stuff talked about so far. She just wanted a hike. She just got caught up in bullshit.
Ok. But she cried.I guess I’m one of those non-Christian’s. I’ve a few Compostela even though I stopped claiming them a while back. I’ve a few distance certificates too. My kids will probably find them when I pass.
I’ve always figured that when I meet the Gate-keeper they’ll have a better knowledge of what I’ve done or left undone than I will ever recall. And, that the paperwork, no doubt forgotten in the rush, will be superfluous.
@LavanyaLea posted about a Santiago artist, Zamo Tamay, whose gallery is just a few mins walk from the Cathedral and who does just this.I am neither artistic nor literary, but many forum participants are one or the other, and some are both. Perhaps people could put together ideas for a document that one could order and purchase through Ivar's business. It could possibly include a list of places where one stayed and maybe even a map of the actual route since some people mix and match their routes or take detours. It could have actual distances and dates. I imagine it being printed on heavy stock paper, with a fancy font, and with some color. It could be available in many different languages, even Latin for some purists. Maybe different versions could be offered – religious, spiritual, secular, etc.
Bob
Possibly their concern was that you did it so quickly they thought you had done it by car.It wasn't a big deal, but I was refused the distance certificate because I'd done my 100+K *too quickly* -- I ran it in one day as an ultramarathon, getting masses of sellos along the way -- but that wasn't considered a proper "peregrination"
That's odd. My distance certificate from 2016 says it was 775km from SJPDP to Santiago. I know there have been some minor route changes over the years but have they really added 24km on to the total distance? That's nearly an extra day's walking for me these days!I wanted the distance certificate because I had walked every step of the way from SJPdP to Santiago...all 799 kilometers they marked on my certificate. (No mention of my climb up to the castle on the steep hill in Castrojerez.).
I received my distance certificate in May 2017. Maybe they added in my hike to the castle after all, or that fact that women often wander around looking in shop windows.That's odd. My distance certificate from 2016 says it was 775km from SJPDP to Santiago. I know there have been some minor route changes over the years but have they really added 24km on to the total distance? That's nearly an extra day's walking for me these days!
Maybe they added in my hike to the castle after all, or that fact that women often wander around looking in shop windows.
Or a Compostela either.It might also come as a surprise to some, that many who walk for months halfway across Europe, don't bother with a distance certificate at all.
It's the truth.Yes, they know everything!
For what it's worth, the official distance from SJPDP to SdC is 779km. Official distances on specific routes are not negotiable, no matter what a pilgrim insists their GPS measures or whatever, but in the case of distances outside of these parameters, such as from a home city or indeed someone's front door, this is generally agreed in an amicable way between the staff member and pilgrim.
It might also come as a surprise to some, that many who walk for months halfway across Europe, don't bother with a distance certificate at all. It's humbling when a travel weary pilgrim with a ragged credencial puts hand on heart with a smile, they know they have walked a long way, they are happy to arrive, it's enough..
The OP presented one side of someone else's account of their alleged unfair treatment. Where is the balance in this?
Right. So be creative, lie and ask for a certificate that doesn't reflect your actual journey? What would be accurate about it and what would be the value of it to someone who knows it to be false?Now I know. Apparently if you are caught in this situation and you want an accurate distance certificate, calculate your actual kms traveled and figure out the starting point where that would be from. Tell them, yah, I started walking again in Llanes or wherever.
I do not condone lying.
Oh yes, how things change.I wanted distance certificates for my first and my longest Caminos. The first was in 2008 from Malaga to Sdc. The longest was 2012 from Rome to Sdc.From memory, I obtained both of these by mail, and think the deal was facilitated by Ivar for a small fee.
[...] How things change!
Ah, but the climb up to the castle and the window shopping is not part of the distance of walking to Santiago. It is part of the experience, but these are detours.I received my distance certificate in May 2017. Maybe they added in my hike to the castle after all, or that fact that women often wander around looking in shop windows.
This gets way beyond stuff talked about so far. She just wanted a hike. She just got caught up in bullshit.
But isn't it the Distance Certificate that the friend wanted?I’m sorry your friend was disappointed and cried, and sorry that her tears hurt your heart, but did she ask for that compostela or was she honest and said she was just hiking the camino? If her intent was solely the hike, she qualified for the welcome certificate, not for the compostela. My personal view, not that anyone cares, is that the distance certificate is a waste of trees.
Actually @Kathar1na, I think Damian's point was that she did want this, but was not in fact offered it. She seems to have been offered certification only for the distance walked since her ultimate bus trip after covid infection interrupted her walk.She apparently did not want the one that was available to her and offered to her: a Distance Certificate certifying the distance that she had actually walked to Santiago without motorised transport between sections.
@Peregrinopaul, erm ... it is indeed a confusing thread. Are you and I not saying exactly the same thing? Fictive example:Actually @Kathar1na, I think Damian's point was that she did want this, but was not in fact offered it. She seems to have been offered certification only for the distance walked since her ultimate bus trip after covid infection interrupted her walk.
Thank you thank you thank you.Actually @Kathar1na, I think Damian's point was that she did want this, but was not in fact offered it. She seems to have been offered certification only for the distance walked since her ultimate bus trip after covid infection interrupted her walk.
Not quite - your hypothetical pilgrim in the last dot-point wants to include maybe the 100km he walked from Bilbao to Santander. Perhaps unreasonable? Not if you're the one who walked it.@Peregrinopaul, erm ... it is indeed a confusing thread. Are you and I not saying exactly the same thing? Fictive example:
- A pilgrim starts walking out of Bilbao and ends walking into Santiago.
- He gets ill in Santander. Between Santander and Gijon, he travels by bus and taxi. Or, every day he walks 5 km on foot and takes a taxi or the bus for 15 km to the next town to spend the night there and to make progress.
- He recovers from his illness by the time he reaches Gijon. He walks on foot from Gijon to Santiago.
- They offer him a Distance Certificate for Gijon-Santiago.
- He does not want it. He wants a Distance Certificate for Bilbao-Santiago.
OK.Not quite - your hypothetical pilgrim in the last dot-point wants to include maybe the 100km he walked from Bilbao to Santander. Perhaps unreasonable? Not if you're the one who walked it.
To:What isn't clear yet is which number the person wanted to see on her Distance Certificate. The distance in km from Bilbao to Santiago which, if she had taken the A8, appears to be just under 600 km? Or a detailed split between the kilometres she walked since Bilbao and the kilometers she travelled by motorised transport?
Does this cut to the chase or are there any other possible requests about what should be written on a Distance Certificate in such “mixed” cases?What isn't clear yet is which number the person wanted to see on her Distance Certificate. The distance in km from Bilbao to Santiago which, if she had taken the A8, appears to be just under 600 km? Or a detailed split between the kilometres she walked since Bilbao and the kilometers she travelled by motorised transport? Or the sum of the kilometres she had covered on foot between Bilbao and Santiago without the kilometres she had covered between Bilbao and Santiago on a bus or in a taxi.
Yes, you are correct. My rather obscure point was related to the fact that she was being honest about what she walked, but perhaps not as honest about her intention, if she indeed wanted the compostela but was merely out for a hike.But isn't it the Distance Certificate that the friend wanted?
Not a Compostela and not a Welcome Certificate but a Distance Certificate? At least that is what my attentive reading of the meagre facts lets me conclude.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?