- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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I found the 90% figure quite surprising too. But looking at the nationalities reported in the pilgrim office statistics from previous years the majority of pilgrims do come from traditionally Catholic countries and are probably at least nominally/culturally Catholic. And it seems plausible that walking the Camino will appeal more strongly to those of Catholic background from other countries. Still feels rather high compared with my very subjective impressions in recent years.Those percentages seem backwards. I can believe that 48% are Catholic and 90% walk for spiritual reasons, but not the other way around.
It is a very small sample compared to the nearly 440,000 who received Compostelas last year. And depends on finding subjects willing to cooperate with the survey. So I do wonder how representative their sample really was.Sounds like a rather 'skewed' study in terms of overall numbers (not many) and geography though.
At the start of the article, it was stated that 90% of pilgrims were Catholic, but later down in the article they said 90% were Christian.
Maybe, but I doubt that the journalist writing the article was thinking about that!Maybe using the word "Catholic" as meaning the universal Christian church - as distinct from "Roman Catholic". I'm thinking of the Nicene Creed which is said in one form or another by Protestants and which includes a belief in "the holy catholic church".
The article suggests that many Catholic pilgrims cite "spiritual" reasons rather than "religious".Those percentages seem backwards. I can believe that 48% are Catholic and 90% walk for spiritual reasons, but not the other way around.
Here is the text on the slide (translated):
I didn't expect that!!I'm sure the survey was carried out in strict accordance with the rules of the Spanish Inquisition.
I didn't expect that!!
All I can say is that I have done 3 caminos, met loads of people, and have never heard anyone mention ‘religion’ or even use the word ‘pilgrim’!La Voz de Galicia are reporting the headline figures from a survey of Camino pilgrims which suggests that around 90% are Catholic, about 48% claim to have walked for spiritual reasons, and that the average daily expenditure by pilgrims is about 80 euros.
El perfil de los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago: el 90 % son católicos, el 48 % lo hacen por motivos espirituales y la mayoría se gastan unos 70 euros al día
Un estudio de la USC, basado en encuestas y en el debate en las redes sociales, evidencia que quien lo finaliza lo recomienda y además no dudaría en volver a hacerlowww.lavozdegalicia.es
I finished a Camino Frances walk last week. Mostly staying in albergues. On days when I could find a menu at lunchtime I was probably spending around 35 to 40 euros per day. Less when I was eating supermarket food. More on the couple of days when I had a private room. Certainly not averaging anything like 80 euros.80 euros a day! I don't think so, not in my experience anyway!
If I spent more than 30 euros a day, I'd be surprised. Apart from the odd days when I spoiled myself with a rural house or a hotel room...
Fact:80 euros a day!
As a repetive peregrino I have NEVER been asked if I am Catholic or Lutheran or …..La Voz de Galicia are reporting the headline figures from a survey of Camino pilgrims which suggests that around 90% are Catholic, about 48% claim to have walked for spiritual reasons, and that the average daily expenditure by pilgrims is about 80 euros.
El perfil de los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago: el 90 % son católicos, el 48 % lo hacen por motivos espirituales y la mayoría se gastan unos 70 euros al día
Un estudio de la USC, basado en encuestas y en el debate en las redes sociales, evidencia que quien lo finaliza lo recomienda y además no dudaría en volver a hacerlowww.lavozdegalicia.es
I find it astounding that you never had a conversation in which those 2 words were used.All I can say is that I have done 3 caminos, met loads of people, and have never heard anyone mention ‘religion’ or even use the word ‘pilgrim’!
Yes(sadly, the journalist and his/her/their editor seem to be a bit lazy or quite confused)
No. But the survey apparently did ask the participants. Different things.As a repetive peregrino I have NEVER been asked if I am Catholic or Lutheran or …...
Is your conclusion based on a poll of forum members, on a quick reading of the erroneous newspaper article, or on an an analysis of the actual survey/study?I have to agree with the majority of commenters that the survey was really off
I agree with you trecile -- this doesn't match the statistics I've seen from the pilgrim office in Santiago.Those percentages seem backwards. I can believe that 48% are Catholic and 90% walk for spiritual reasons, but not the other way around.
Which ones? Those of the newspaper article or the actual study?None of the percentages seemed remotely accurate to me.
Only speaking for myself reacting to @Bradypus, who highlighted the gist of the article in his original post...nothing more.Which ones? Those of the newspaper article or the actual study?
I understand. It is just that later posts have pointed out that the article misquoted the actual study (as is very commonthe gist of the article in his original post...nothing more.
Well, yes, once you're baptised, you're Catholic, there's no getting out of it!I found the 90% figure quite surprising too. But looking at the nationalities reported in the pilgrim office statistics from previous years the majority of pilgrims do come from traditionally Catholic countries and are probably at least nominally/culturally Catholic. And it seems plausible that walking the Camino will appeal more strongly to those of Catholic background from other countries. Still feels rather high compared with my very subjective impressions in recent years.
It is a very small sample compared to the nearly 440,000 who received Compostelas last year. And depends on finding subjects willing to cooperate with the survey. So I do wonder how representative their sample really was.
Well, yes, once you're baptised, you're Catholic, there's no getting out of it!
As a pilgrim who is a practicing catholic-- I don't talk about my faith with those who aren't religious. There are ways to identify those who are walking for religious reasons. Some wearing a tau cross or a religious medal. There may be a rosary on the outside of a backpack, or the person may give thanks before meals. I also notice who is at mass with me.All I can say is that I have done 3 caminos, met loads of people, and have never heard anyone mention ‘religion’ or even use the word ‘pilgrim’!
I give thanks before meals. Every meal is something to be thankful for. Mass I’ll attend if the inclination takes me. Though the transubstantiation is easy for a pagan to accept I will not seek the Eucharist, I think even the most liberal of priests might be troubled if I did.the person may give thanks before meals. I also notice who is at mass with me.
I looked it up, Pepi; your post sounds very respectful to me.If interested, look it up: A secular Camino?
No worries there! I talk with everyone! But my faith is very close to my heart, and people scorning and belittling it hurts. So I am careful-- just like here on this forum, where we're not supposed to talk about it much.I give thanks before meals. Every meal is something to be thankful for. Mass I’ll attend if the inclination takes me. Though the transubstantiation is easy for a pagan to accept I will not seek the Eucharist, I think even the most liberal of priests might be troubled if I did.
I’ve had some great conversations with the religious and the decidedly not along the thousand roads. And I’ve had some pretty pointless rucks. So it goes.
Please don’t choose not to talk to people just‘cos they’ve got a different hymn sheet.
Please don’t choose not to talk to people just‘cos they’ve got a different hymn sheet.
All I can say is that I have done 3 caminos, met loads of people, and have never heard anyone mention ‘religion’ or even use the word ‘pilgrim’!
I'm sure both are true statements, though opposite.They are often the most interesting people to talk to
Even 48% Catholic seems shockingly high!
I agree. I did my first Camino in 2022 for spiritual reasons and was very surprised there weren’t very many Catholics (I’d say 5 out of 20 that I got to know were Catholics). So seeing the 90% Catholics stats is very hard to believe.Either the sample size was extremely skewed, they confused the terms “Christian” and “Catholic,” or they added things up incorrectly, but there is no way that’s correct.
La Voz de Galicia are reporting the headline figures from a survey of Camino pilgrims which suggests that around 90% are Catholic, about 48% claim to have walked for spiritual reasons, and that the average daily expenditure by pilgrims is about 80 euros.
El perfil de los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago: el 90 % son católicos, el 48 % lo hacen por motivos espirituales y la mayoría se gastan unos 70 euros al día
Un estudio de la USC, basado en encuestas y en el debate en las redes sociales, evidencia que quien lo finaliza lo recomienda y además no dudaría en volver a hacerlowww.lavozdegalicia.es
The Oficina de Peregrinos asks people for their motives. In 2021, the answers were:La Voz de Galicia are reporting the headline figures from a survey of Camino pilgrims which suggests that around 90% are Catholic, about 48% claim to have walked for spiritual reasons, and that the average daily expenditure by pilgrims is about 80 euros.
and . . . no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!I'm sure the survey was carried out in strict accordance with the rules of the Spanish Inquisition.
Yes looking back I guess I am too! I knew nothing of the religious aspect of the walk until I found this forum which was after my walks. I didn’t really do any research before I started (as did it at a days notice as was already in mainland Europe) so didn’t come across anything. I walked pretty much with younger Europeans so maybe that was a factor! Maybe there was some conversations between folks which I didn’t understand as I know nothing about religions! I try to keep up with it all on here and ‘google’ is my friend.I find it astounding that you never had a conversation in which those 2 words were used
Yes agreed. I guess like minded folks tend to know the signs for folks with the same/similar interests.As a pilgrim who is a practicing catholic-- I don't talk about my faith with those who aren't religious. There are ways to identify those who are walking for religious reasons. Some wearing a tau cross or a religious medal. There may be a rosary on the outside of a backpack, or the person may give thanks before meals. I also notice who is at mass with me.
That’s a little surprising, even when you walked with mainly young people. To walk the Camino Francés and never noticing the words pilgrim or peregrino in Pilgrim’s Menu or Menu del Peregrino and thinking, odd, I wonder what that means, doesn’t that word have something to do with pilgrimage and religion.knew nothing of the religious aspect of the walk until I found this forum which was after my walks
Yes I agree. I’m surprised too, but that’s how it was! Guess I just wasn’t paying enough attention which is very typical of me! I guess the word ‘Pilgrim’ must have flashed in front of my eyes at some point and maybe I didn’t register it! I guess my overall point is that I didn’t see an environment that was heavily or even relatively minorly religious.That’s a little surprising, even when you walked with mainly young people. To walk the Camino Francés and never noticing the words pilgrim or peregrino in Pilgrim’s Menu or Menu del Peregrino and thinking, odd, I wonder what that means, doesn’t that word have something to do with pilgrimage and religion.
My experience is that the great majority of Catholics only rarely discuss religion outside of certain forums or circumstances. Protestants a bit more, but still not commonly.I have to agree with the majority of commenters that the survey was really off. My first night on the Frances in Orisson in 2019, everyone at dinner had to stand and say why they were walking. I was sitting with a Basque and two Catalans. After everyone was finished, the Basque turned to me and exclaimed with great surprise that "no one mentioned religion."
This forum is a bit of an Anglophone bubble, not really taking into account the huge numbers of Spanish and Portuguese pilgrims, or even the French and Italians, the vast majority of whom would be Catholics -- not necessarily practising, but nonetheless.Personally I expected the majority to be Catholics, but was surprised by number of other religions, especially Anglican and Lutheran,
I have, fairly frequently.As a repetive peregrino I have NEVER been asked if I am Catholic or Lutheran or …..
My own reading of the Voz de Galicia article is that it suggested between €30 and €50.Almost 70% of the 91.5% spent between 20€ and 50€.
Of course the etymology of the word "Peregrino", "Pilgrim" as something to do with religion.I wonder what that means, doesn’t that word have something to do with pilgrimage and religion.
Classical Latin peregrinus means foreigner, outsider, traveller, sometimes pedlar/merchant, though it did start also to be used with a religious sense in the Late Latin period, 5th Century onwards.Of course the etymology of the word "Peregrino", "Pilgrim" has something to do with religion.
Indeed!the only key required to access it is to be open to other pilgrims,
Yes that’s is certainly me. I see it as a hike alongside other hikes and quite happy with that! Wasn’t really looking for any magic but certainly enjoyed it! Each to their own! I can’t say I feel a need to be spiritual or religious, or seen as such, to enjoy it, though I totally respect many others will be looking for more than me and that’s great!Indeed!
- but on the crowded Frances (with a certain diversity of people walking) my impression that many do not even pretend to be pilgrims of any type and are not wanting magic or mystery. It also takes time to infuse whatever this magic is for each of us.
Bless you, thou willst go to Heaven...Ah, stop press. I found the pdf file of the results of the study, posted by the Cathedral / Archdiocese of Santiago.
It would make more sense to continue the thread on the basis of the information in this document than on the basis of newspaper articles about the recent press conference.
Page 17-18 (translated and summarised):
Around 35% of the pilgrims (needless to say: 35 % of those surveyed) spent between €35 and €49 per day, followed by around 28% who spent between €20 and €34, and around 20% who spent between €50 to €69. Around 8,5% spent between €70 and €89 and less than 10% belong to the two extreme points of the scale with more than €90 or less than €20. Each of us can now see to which percentage of the surveyed pilgrim population our own average daily expenditure corresponds.
The pdf document also contains the survey's questionnaire.
Source: https://archicompostela.es/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Percepciones-y-espiritualidad.pdf
(Warning: Super dull pedantic post ahead)As to the 90% ... now that we have the actual report of the study in the form of an online digital pdf file at our fingertips and in front of our very own eyes, we can take a closer look ourselves.
There were 2 online questionnaires. No face to face interviews. One questionnaire for pilgrims who had walked one or more Caminos. And one questionnaire for potential pilgrims who are planning to walk a Camino in the near future.
1546 pilgrims answered the first questionnaire and 342 answered the second questionnaire. Makes 1888 pilgrims in total who are surveyed.
Note the nationalities: Pilgrims from 'traditional majority Catholic countries' such as Italy, Portugal, France and Spain are in the clear minority with Spain with less than 8 respondents (the number of Spanish nationals are not even separately listed so it's unknown and their number in the survey can anything from 0 to 7 pilgrims).
A quick rithmatic check of the columns for the question about spirituality which was Are you spiritual but not religious or Religious or Not religious? gives: 722 + 586 + 238 = 1546. Good, every pilgrim answered this question. Same result for the potential pilgrims.
Next comes the question about what kind of Religious your are with the 5 options Christian etc. (nobody was asked which branch of the Christian faith they feel attached to): 858 + 22 + 13 + 2 + 65 = 960. What's that? Nearly half of all the pilgrims did not say a thing about this? It says 89.4% next to Cristiano, that must be the 90% then. But 90% of what?
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(Warning: Super dull pedantic post ahead) [...] It’s not clear to me what population this survey is supposed to represent, so I emailed the authors to ask for the methodology write-up. I’ll report back here if I hear from any of them.
Excellent research Kathar1na !!Note the nationalities: Pilgrims from 'traditional majority Catholic countries' such as Italy, Portugal, France and Spain are in the clear minority with Spain with less than 8 respondents (the number of Spanish nationals are not even separately listed so it's unknown and their number in the survey can anything from 0 to 7 pilgrims).
If they are cringing then it is because numerous comments have been made about the numbers in a news article about a press conference; about the numbers in the first post; about the numbers in the thread title; under the assumption that the survey is representative for Camino pilgrims as a whole - a claim I cannot see anywhere in the report; and all this without actually looking at the report itself and trying to understand what the numbers and percentages mean and what the report says.I can't think of another survey that has been so seriously critiqued, deconstructed and dismissed so quickly in recent times. The authors must be cringing.
This puzzles me. Every survey and poll is roundly criticized, and this one goes to the heart of the forum community, so of course there is much debate and many questions. Are you following the analysis or just observing the indignation of pilgrims who know what they know, and are not interested in what a survey might reveal?I can't think of another survey that has been so seriously critiqued, deconstructed and dismissed so quickly in recent times.
In case that there is a misunderstanding: The question in post #66 isn't criticism. It was an attempt to invite people to engage and figure it out for themselves. I know the answer.But 90% of what?
(Warning: more pedantry ahead)Excellent research Kathar1na !!
This would suggest such a degree of underlying bias as to make unreliable all of these claims.
You are absolutely correct that the results are not biased if they only purport to represent the experiences of the 1900ish respondents. But doesn’t the intro imply the results represent pilgrims in general?I actually don‘t see any bias and I don’t see that the results of the study are unreliable or wrong. This is how I understand it: We asked around 1900 pilgrims and potential pilgrims to fill out our questionnaires. Here is what they said in reply to our questions.
It is not the fault of the authors when people wrongly jump to the conclusion that the 1900 pilgrims and potential pilgrims are representative for all pilgrims and potential pilgrims.
As I understand it the Twitter part of the survey was not about pilgrims or potential pilgrims. It was generally about perceptions of spirituality in connection with the Camino Santiago. The method is called "text mining" and they used certain hash tags as their basis. I guess that there is software for such an analysis. I vaguely remember that I either read it in the report or heard it in the video of the press conference; perhaps someone can confirm as I am too lazy to look it up again. They mined millions of tweets starting from the middle of 2021 until the end of their work which I guess was sometime in 2022.Half the report was given over to a careful and detailed analysis of posts on Twitter. It was not explained how people who hold Twitter accounts are representative of camino walkers.
I think that the respondents are self-selected. My Spanish listening skills are not very good so I don't understand the full context but I can hear that the presenter mentions un foro de peregrinos más grande de peregrinos a nivel internacional que se llama Santiago de Compostela punto me/community. And according to the slides, the data about the potential pilgrims at least are from that forum.You are absolutely correct that the results are not biased if they only purport to represent the experiences of the 1900ish respondents. But doesn’t the intro imply the results represent pilgrims in general? The paper doesn’t say how the researchers found the pilgrims to answer the survey, so the respondents could be self-selected
Of course, we all know that the only forum that accurately represents the Camino pilgrim community is this one. ;-)I think that the respondents are self-selected. My Spanish listening skills are not very good so I don't understand the full context but I can hear that the presenter mentions un foro de peregrinos más grande de peregrinos a nivel internacional que se llama Santiago de Compostela punto me/community. And according to the slides, the data about the potential pilgrims at least are from that forum.
View attachment 141263
Yep, it's the "bubble" many of us are in.Of course, we all know that the only forum that accurately represents the Camino pilgrim community is this one. ;-)
It's a bit comforting that catholics make up the majority as they pay for the upkeep of the many historic churches us non catholics benefit from.La Voz de Galicia are reporting the headline figures from a survey of Camino pilgrims which suggests that around 90% are Catholic, about 48% claim to have walked for spiritual reasons, and that the average daily expenditure by pilgrims is about 80 euros.
El perfil de los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago: el 90 % son católicos, el 48 % lo hacen por motivos espirituales y la mayoría se gastan unos 70 euros al día
Un estudio de la USC, basado en encuestas y en el debate en las redes sociales, evidencia que quien lo finaliza lo recomienda y además no dudaría en volver a hacerlowww.lavozdegalicia.es
The thread title is a direct translation of the original article headline. Which was of course a very sloppy and misleading piece of writing as has been comprehensively pointed out in the posts that followed. What do you suggest I alter it to read?Isn't it high time to edit the title of this thread and the text of the first post? Please?
In 2021, 78% of the compostelas went to people from those four countries. They were 1st place, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Germany and USA were 4th and 5th, with less than four percent each.Note the nationalities: Pilgrims from 'traditional majority Catholic countries' such as Italy, Portugal, France and Spain are in the clear minority with Spain with less than 8 respondents (the number of Spanish nationals are not even separately listed so it's unknown and their number in the survey can anything from 0 to 7 pilgrims).
Maybe prefix "Sloppy journalism: " to the current title?The thread title is a direct translation of the original article headline. Which was of course a very sloppy and misleading piece of writing as has been comprehensively pointed out in the posts that followed. What do you suggest I alter it to read?
Hey! I have friends in Belfast and sometimes we talk religion. My friend and I are from mixed families (one parent protestant and one catholic).Yes agreed. I guess like minded folks tend to know the signs for folks with the same/similar interests.
In the UK we have a saying which often prompts a sign on many pub walls saying ‘no talking about football, politics, or religion’. We fail totally as football pretty much is talked about endlessly, politics is discussed a little, but not heard much on religion. I don’t think it would be too much of an issue in England but I wouldn’t chance it in Glasgow or Belfast!
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