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The route from mont st michel was great but keep it quiet!!!
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The route from mont st michel was great but keep it quiet!!!Have walked from Mont St Michel and four GR65's from Le Puy Domigee and yes they are more protective of their accommodation and way of village life,
And the cost [ there are few alberques ] in my opinion stops many , especially the young groups.
Thats why we return to France and commence on that side of Pyrenees ,
I was a bit tongue in cheek when asking those questions
Why should she have to put up with stupid idiotic people?You're incredible vent on everything you hate is amazing. I walked the Camino last year, and yes, there were things that I struggled with. People getting up before dawn, crazy People judging me, festivals in towns way after midnight. It was all the flavor. I don't know where your anger is coming from. My suggestion to you is....keep on walking. No one cares about your anger. Work it out for yourself
Why should she have to put up with stupid idiotic people?You're incredible vent on everything you hate is amazing. I walked the Camino last year, and yes, there were things that I struggled with. People getting up before dawn, crazy People judging me, festivals in towns way after midnight. It was all the flavor. I don't know where your anger is coming from. My suggestion to you is....keep on walking. No one cares about your anger. Work it out for yourself
Because we really can't change other people, only our reaction to them.Why should she have to put up with stupid idiotic people?
So say nothing,do nothing and tacitly approve of and condone their behaviour?Because we really can't change other people, only our reaction to them.
If you want to spend all your time angry and worked up, then you are free to do so.So say nothing,do nothing and tacitly approve of and condone their behaviour?
I wasn't saying that you are spending your time being angry and worked up. I was just replying to the other poster. I think that it's great to vent here about things that bother you, especially if it helps to keep you from being angry and worked up. Sometimes we just need to get those feelings out there in a safe space. But dwelling on it can be unhealthy. And no, I don't think that you Annie are dwelling on it.Oh my!
I'm not spending my time angry and worked up.
I wasn't saying that you are spending your time being angry and worked up. I was just replying to the other poster.
spending my time angry and worked up?...I wasn't saying that you are spending your time being angry and worked up. I was just replying to the other poster. I think that it's great to vent here about things that bother you, especially if it helps to keep you from being angry and worked up. Sometimes we just need to get those feelings out there in a safe space. But dwelling on it can be unhealthy. And no, I don't think that you Annie are dwelling on it.
I'm not spending my time angry and worked up.
I knew that - straightaway!I wasn't saying that you are spending your time being angry and worked up.
I am so sorry you have endured such rudeness and selfishness. It is all over the world. So sad it is on the Camino.VENT WARNING. If you don't want to hear it, pass on this post.
I'm in a bad mood and probably will delete this when I get over it.
But for now, I need to say it.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back has fallen.
It may seem like such a small thing, but . . .
Please.
If you don't understand how to work Spanish washing machines, DON'T TOUCH THEM!
They are MUCH different from our machines in the USA.
It is not uncommon for a cycle to be longer than 1 hour, unlike our 20 minute cycles.
Forcing the door open mid-cycle CAN BREAK THE MACHINE, resulting in expensive repairs or replacement.
I have heard complaints from SEVERAL owners about pilgrims breaking the machine.
Even with signs up in English, people ignore them.
WTF!???
One albergue (Santa Celia) closed their kitchen for at least one season because the washer had been forced open and broken twice. Who cares? The pilgrims coming in from Jaca who have no place to cook their food or wash their clothes!
I have just had the experience of a group leader and lodging OWNER asking that the pilgrims do not try to operate their machine. The owner had stayed an extra hour and a half waiting for a rude pilgrim who sat at the bar and drank instead knowing she was waiting to put his wash in.
She finally had to go make dinner for her own family. The group leader was given instructions on how to operate the BRAND NEW MACHINE and asked the pilgrims to please not touch the machine, but ask for help.
THEY AGREED.
The group leader starts the machine, goes to make a sandwich and comes back to find the washer door forced open. Luckily he got it to work again.
This is a place where we have developed a very good relationship with the owners. It would be a shame if that were ruined by spoiled, irresponsible tourists.
Rude, demanding, ignorant, and self-absorbed people are on the rise on the Camino, in my opinion.
I've heard several albergue owners comment that the money just isn't worth putting up with the foolishness.
Ours is a budget trip. I state in the handouts "This is a budget trip, not a five-star vacation." "We are not a company, we are pilgrims helping pilgrims." But I've discovered that many do not bother to read the material I send out. That assumption is based on the constant questions I get about material I covered in the hand outs.
For the amount of time I put in planning, making reservations, and emailing group members, I end up making less than minimum wage. You couldn't stay 5 nights in an American hotel for what people pay for 3 weeks paid lodging with us (and many other groups). And as many nice people as I've had on my trips, it seems there's always one who threatens to ruin it for everyone. I'm just about worn out.
Despite all the wonderful experiences I've had on the Camino (and there HAVE been more positive experiences than negative) in past years, I'm feeling "done."
- I have had a woman throw a tantrum and slam her suitcase all over antique furniture because she was tired.
- I've had a woman leave Orisson at 9 am and not get into Roncesvalles until 9:45 pm, never thinking about the rest of the group worrying sick if she'd fallen off a cliff. Everyone else arrived by 2 pm. This went on until I threatened to boot her off the trip and cancel her lodging reservations.
- I've had a man hang his dripping muddy wet raincoat on priceless antiques in a casa rural.
- One guy came in drunk late at night and started a blazing fire in the fireplace, then went to bed leaving it burning. The hostess and her help had to come down and put out the fire, leading to no more firewood being left for pilgrims.
- I watched an American man and his daughter START a fight and punch another pilgrim because the daughter lied about what was happening. If there had not been a mattress on the floor, the 2d man would have been dead, his head hit so hard on the floor.
- I've had a woman who insisted she spoke Spanish be extremely rude to taxi drivers and hotel workers, embarrassing me and making me want to crawl into a hole.
- I've had a woman scream in my face because she was unhappy about taxi service.
- I've had a woman call me in a panic and insist I hurry and get to a village because she couldn't find her lodging. I caught a taxi and found her drinking Sangria in the square with her friends - she stayed there until after 9 pm.
- I've had people insist on carrying 50 pounds too much, buy nick-nacks in nearly every village, increasing their weight, and refuse to pay pack transport, instead asking their fellow pilgrims to carry their excess weight, making other group members very uncomfortable to say no.
- After MANY warnings in the written material I send out, I've had several people get angry because I've told my group leaders NOT to carry their heavy packs up stairs. I can't risk my group leader getting hurt and people just refuse to pack light.
- I've had people complain the rooms were too small, too big, too hot, too cold, blah blah blah. The compared the pilgrim rooms at San Martin Pinario to jail cells. Really???
- I've had people LEAVE their room at SMP to go to a different hotel, and refuse to check out and leave the key for other pilgrims who needed the rooms. In other words, since they had "paid for" the room, even though they weren't using it, they wouldn't give up the key.
It's hard to smile and stay positive in the face of increasing rudeness and self-centeredness.
Where is the Camino Spirit?
Oh, it's there, but you have to peel back layers to see it much anymore, in my experience.
I do know myself.
I have learned I don't do well with "difficult people" - aka people who are SUPPOSED to be adults but act like spoiled children. They wear me down and I'm just past the age of wanting to deal with their crap.
So I should retire, I'm thinking.
I'll be glad when the Camino is no longer a fad and pilgrims instead of tourists return to walk.
But then, it's said you can never go back..
Shame, that...
Sorry for venting, but I needed to get it out.
I feel like starting a campaign or writing a book about all the BAD THINGS that happen on the Camino just to get the traffic down.
:::crawling into a hole:::
*****
I also need to add that I have met and led WONDERFUL people on the Camino.
Many more of those than the negative type.
Most of the people in my groups have been polite, fun-loving, respectful, spiritual, and kind PILGRIMS who I have thoroughly enjoyed. It just seems there's always that one or two in each group that tries to ruin it.
I'm grateful for the conversation this has opened up.
I will leave the post up.
Today is a better day!
Thanks all.
Thats you Peugeot 504 [my kids had one] the other poster.wasn't saying that you are spending your time being angry and worked up. I was just replying to the other poster.
dwelling on it can be unhealthy
And I wasn't saying what Omar should do or feel either, just speaking in generalities.Poor Omar has been walking The Camino's for a decade now in all parts of Europe Trecile , he knows how to get rid of his anxieties
And I wasn't saying what Omar should do or feel either, just speaking in generalities.
That was the theme of the threadPoor Omar has been walking The Camino's for a decade now in all parts of Europe Trecile , he knows how to get rid of his anxieties
Thornley.you are well namedIf Omar is the same old as the 504 Peugeot he will be grumpy .
Oh dear Annie. Sounds like you need a breakVENT WARNING. If you don't want to hear it, pass on this post.
I'm in a bad mood and probably will delete this when I get over it.
But for now, I need to say it.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back has fallen.
It may seem like such a small thing, but . . .
Please.
If you don't understand how to work Spanish washing machines, DON'T TOUCH THEM!
They are MUCH different from our machines in the USA.
It is not uncommon for a cycle to be longer than 1 hour, unlike our 20 minute cycles.
Forcing the door open mid-cycle CAN BREAK THE MACHINE, resulting in expensive repairs or replacement.
I have heard complaints from SEVERAL owners about pilgrims breaking the machine.
Even with signs up in English, people ignore them.
WTF!???
One albergue (Santa Celia) closed their kitchen for at least one season because the washer had been forced open and broken twice. Who cares? The pilgrims coming in from Jaca who have no place to cook their food or wash their clothes!
I have just had the experience of a group leader and lodging OWNER asking that the pilgrims do not try to operate their machine. The owner had stayed an extra hour and a half waiting for a rude pilgrim who sat at the bar and drank instead knowing she was waiting to put his wash in.
She finally had to go make dinner for her own family. The group leader was given instructions on how to operate the BRAND NEW MACHINE and asked the pilgrims to please not touch the machine, but ask for help.
THEY AGREED.
The group leader starts the machine, goes to make a sandwich and comes back to find the washer door forced open. Luckily he got it to work again.
This is a place where we have developed a very good relationship with the owners. It would be a shame if that were ruined by spoiled, irresponsible tourists.
Rude, demanding, ignorant, and self-absorbed people are on the rise on the Camino, in my opinion.
I've heard several albergue owners comment that the money just isn't worth putting up with the foolishness.
Ours is a budget trip. I state in the handouts "This is a budget trip, not a five-star vacation." "We are not a company, we are pilgrims helping pilgrims." But I've discovered that many do not bother to read the material I send out. That assumption is based on the constant questions I get about material I covered in the hand outs.
For the amount of time I put in planning, making reservations, and emailing group members, I end up making less than minimum wage. You couldn't stay 5 nights in an American hotel for what people pay for 3 weeks paid lodging with us (and many other groups). And as many nice people as I've had on my trips, it seems there's always one who threatens to ruin it for everyone. I'm just about worn out.
Despite all the wonderful experiences I've had on the Camino (and there HAVE been more positive experiences than negative) in past years, I'm feeling "done."
- I have had a woman throw a tantrum and slam her suitcase all over antique furniture because she was tired.
- I've had a woman leave Orisson at 9 am and not get into Roncesvalles until 9:45 pm, never thinking about the rest of the group worrying sick if she'd fallen off a cliff. Everyone else arrived by 2 pm. This went on until I threatened to boot her off the trip and cancel her lodging reservations.
- I've had a man hang his dripping muddy wet raincoat on priceless antiques in a casa rural.
- One guy came in drunk late at night and started a blazing fire in the fireplace, then went to bed leaving it burning. The hostess and her help had to come down and put out the fire, leading to no more firewood being left for pilgrims.
- I watched an American man and his daughter START a fight and punch another pilgrim because the daughter lied about what was happening. If there had not been a mattress on the floor, the 2d man would have been dead, his head hit so hard on the floor.
- I've had a woman who insisted she spoke Spanish be extremely rude to taxi drivers and hotel workers, embarrassing me and making me want to crawl into a hole.
- I've had a woman scream in my face because she was unhappy about taxi service.
- I've had a woman call me in a panic and insist I hurry and get to a village because she couldn't find her lodging. I caught a taxi and found her drinking Sangria in the square with her friends - she stayed there until after 9 pm.
- I've had people insist on carrying 50 pounds too much, buy nick-nacks in nearly every village, increasing their weight, and refuse to pay pack transport, instead asking their fellow pilgrims to carry their excess weight, making other group members very uncomfortable to say no.
- After MANY warnings in the written material I send out, I've had several people get angry because I've told my group leaders NOT to carry their heavy packs up stairs. I can't risk my group leader getting hurt and people just refuse to pack light.
- I've had people complain the rooms were too small, too big, too hot, too cold, blah blah blah. The compared the pilgrim rooms at San Martin Pinario to jail cells. Really???
- I've had people LEAVE their room at SMP to go to a different hotel, and refuse to check out and leave the key for other pilgrims who needed the rooms. In other words, since they had "paid for" the room, even though they weren't using it, they wouldn't give up the key.
It's hard to smile and stay positive in the face of increasing rudeness and self-centeredness.
Where is the Camino Spirit?
Oh, it's there, but you have to peel back layers to see it much anymore, in my experience.
I do know myself.
I have learned I don't do well with "difficult people" - aka people who are SUPPOSED to be adults but act like spoiled children. They wear me down and I'm just past the age of wanting to deal with their crap.
So I should retire, I'm thinking.
I'll be glad when the Camino is no longer a fad and pilgrims instead of tourists return to walk.
But then, it's said you can never go back..
Shame, that...
Sorry for venting, but I needed to get it out.
I feel like starting a campaign or writing a book about all the BAD THINGS that happen on the Camino just to get the traffic down.
:::crawling into a hole:::
*****
I also need to add that I have met and led WONDERFUL people on the Camino.
Many more of those than the negative type.
Most of the people in my groups have been polite, fun-loving, respectful, spiritual, and kind PILGRIMS who I have thoroughly enjoyed. It just seems there's always that one or two in each group that tries to ruin it.
I'm grateful for the conversation this has opened up.
I will leave the post up.
Today is a better day!
Thanks all.
Again, this post is almost 3 years ago.Oh dear Annie. Sounds like you need a break
I will be able to do this someday, I hope.on the next visit looked at pilgrims ... really looked, went beyond the surface, talked with the rude, talked with the silent, talked with the pre-occupied - and I found that all was well ... that my response to the earlier visit had all been in my head and that pilgrims are as they have always been - that rich mix of humanity
Exactly, @lizlane. I'm actually glad this thread is having an encore. As a reminder of how not to be.Though the basic message is that we should consider the impact of our actions on others, regardless of whether you are a tourist or a pilgrim. It's called being an adult not a brat.
The next question to you all. How do you deal with people who are being inconsiderate: do you talk to them, or not? Not looking for opinions, just curious to know how different people approach the situation - to ignore or not to ignore?
I will be able to do this someday, I hope.
(Well sometimes I can. Other times all I see in the kind of people Annie was talking about are oversized spoiled brats, and it really bugs me.)
Exactly, @lizlane. I'm actually glad this thread is having an encore. As a reminder of how not to be.
The next question to you all. How do you deal with people who are being inconsiderate: do you talk to them, or not? Not looking for opinions, just curious to know how different people approach the situation - to ignore or not to ignore?
...Obliviots are those folks who seem unable or incapable of recognizing that what they might be doing imposes on someone else...
Yes. And. There are people who do things they know are difficult for others, but they couldn't care less - or worse, seem entitled to being allowed to make trouble for others. We have all met them. Some of the people in Anemone's original posts are stellar examples.This is communal living. We all need to get used to it.
That would be my criterion. Obliviots are innocent of inconsiderate intention.does an action require a specific intent to make it inconsiderate?
OBLIVIOTS! What a word. Thanks!!
It's a new and delicious word for me too. Sometimes made-up words are better than real ones.
Thanks Dave!
Snap!I don't look for rude and selfish people so I haven't really seen many of them.
A fertile field of possibility. You have my condolences, Tinca.Fellow forum members we have a new mission. To get "Obliviots" into the OED (Chambers will do)
I will use it in any relevant context that I can: next weeks Board meeting pertains...
And let us thank all the Gods for that. Can you imagine what it might do for our innocence if we thought the b*ggrs were doing it deliberately. St @davebugg didn't appellate those: I guess out of a sense of forum decorum.That would be my criterion. Obliviots are innocent of inconsiderate intention.
No need to feel guilty about having a rant. You sound like you have the patience of a saint! If it was me I would probably be in prison for hitting some of these ignorant people!VENT WARNING. If you don't want to hear it, pass on this post.
I'm in a bad mood and probably will delete this when I get over it.
But for now, I need to say it.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back has fallen.
It may seem like such a small thing, but . . .
Please.
If you don't understand how to work Spanish washing machines, DON'T TOUCH THEM!
They are MUCH different from our machines in the USA.
It is not uncommon for a cycle to be longer than 1 hour, unlike our 20 minute cycles.
Forcing the door open mid-cycle CAN BREAK THE MACHINE, resulting in expensive repairs or replacement.
I have heard complaints from SEVERAL owners about pilgrims breaking the machine.
Even with signs up in English, people ignore them.
WTF!???
One albergue (Santa Celia) closed their kitchen for at least one season because the washer had been forced open and broken twice. Who cares? The pilgrims coming in from Jaca who have no place to cook their food or wash their clothes!
I have just had the experience of a group leader and lodging OWNER asking that the pilgrims do not try to operate their machine. The owner had stayed an extra hour and a half waiting for a rude pilgrim who sat at the bar and drank instead knowing she was waiting to put his wash in.
She finally had to go make dinner for her own family. The group leader was given instructions on how to operate the BRAND NEW MACHINE and asked the pilgrims to please not touch the machine, but ask for help.
THEY AGREED.
The group leader starts the machine, goes to make a sandwich and comes back to find the washer door forced open. Luckily he got it to work again.
This is a place where we have developed a very good relationship with the owners. It would be a shame if that were ruined by spoiled, irresponsible tourists.
Rude, demanding, ignorant, and self-absorbed people are on the rise on the Camino, in my opinion.
I've heard several albergue owners comment that the money just isn't worth putting up with the foolishness.
Ours is a budget trip. I state in the handouts "This is a budget trip, not a five-star vacation." "We are not a company, we are pilgrims helping pilgrims." But I've discovered that many do not bother to read the material I send out. That assumption is based on the constant questions I get about material I covered in the hand outs.
For the amount of time I put in planning, making reservations, and emailing group members, I end up making less than minimum wage. You couldn't stay 5 nights in an American hotel for what people pay for 3 weeks paid lodging with us (and many other groups). And as many nice people as I've had on my trips, it seems there's always one who threatens to ruin it for everyone. I'm just about worn out.
Despite all the wonderful experiences I've had on the Camino (and there HAVE been more positive experiences than negative) in past years, I'm feeling "done."
- I have had a woman throw a tantrum and slam her suitcase all over antique furniture because she was tired.
- I've had a woman leave Orisson at 9 am and not get into Roncesvalles until 9:45 pm, never thinking about the rest of the group worrying sick if she'd fallen off a cliff. Everyone else arrived by 2 pm. This went on until I threatened to boot her off the trip and cancel her lodging reservations.
- I've had a man hang his dripping muddy wet raincoat on priceless antiques in a casa rural.
- One guy came in drunk late at night and started a blazing fire in the fireplace, then went to bed leaving it burning. The hostess and her help had to come down and put out the fire, leading to no more firewood being left for pilgrims.
- I watched an American man and his daughter START a fight and punch another pilgrim because the daughter lied about what was happening. If there had not been a mattress on the floor, the 2d man would have been dead, his head hit so hard on the floor.
- I've had a woman who insisted she spoke Spanish be extremely rude to taxi drivers and hotel workers, embarrassing me and making me want to crawl into a hole.
- I've had a woman scream in my face because she was unhappy about taxi service.
- I've had a woman call me in a panic and insist I hurry and get to a village because she couldn't find her lodging. I caught a taxi and found her drinking Sangria in the square with her friends - she stayed there until after 9 pm.
- I've had people insist on carrying 50 pounds too much, buy nick-nacks in nearly every village, increasing their weight, and refuse to pay pack transport, instead asking their fellow pilgrims to carry their excess weight, making other group members very uncomfortable to say no.
- After MANY warnings in the written material I send out, I've had several people get angry because I've told my group leaders NOT to carry their heavy packs up stairs. I can't risk my group leader getting hurt and people just refuse to pack light.
- I've had people complain the rooms were too small, too big, too hot, too cold, blah blah blah. The compared the pilgrim rooms at San Martin Pinario to jail cells. Really???
- I've had people LEAVE their room at SMP to go to a different hotel, and refuse to check out and leave the key for other pilgrims who needed the rooms. In other words, since they had "paid for" the room, even though they weren't using it, they wouldn't give up the key.
It's hard to smile and stay positive in the face of increasing rudeness and self-centeredness.
Where is the Camino Spirit?
Oh, it's there, but you have to peel back layers to see it much anymore, in my experience.
I do know myself.
I have learned I don't do well with "difficult people" - aka people who are SUPPOSED to be adults but act like spoiled children. They wear me down and I'm just past the age of wanting to deal with their crap.
So I should retire, I'm thinking.
I'll be glad when the Camino is no longer a fad and pilgrims instead of tourists return to walk.
But then, it's said you can never go back..
Shame, that...
Sorry for venting, but I needed to get it out.
I feel like starting a campaign or writing a book about all the BAD THINGS that happen on the Camino just to get the traffic down.
:::crawling into a hole:::
*****
I also need to add that I have met and led WONDERFUL people on the Camino.
Many more of those than the negative type.
Most of the people in my groups have been polite, fun-loving, respectful, spiritual, and kind PILGRIMS who I have thoroughly enjoyed. It just seems there's always that one or two in each group that tries to ruin it.
I'm grateful for the conversation this has opened up.
I will leave the post up.
Today is a better day!
Thanks all.
Obliviots are those folks who seem unable or incapable of recognizing that what they might be doing imposes on someone else.
Umm that's a NO! I love being in the APOC group. I've paid my dues. I come here to "THE GROWN-UPS' TABLE" because I don't need my camino chewed up and spit back into my mouth in swallowable chunks. This forum is my nest and I learned to forage from the search feature.The OP was 2016, I really doubt it has changed much. The offenders don't visit the Forum and wouldn't understand "is it about me?" Just follow the APOC on FB.
The next question to you all. How do you deal with people who are being inconsiderate: do you talk to them, or not? Not looking for opinions, just curious to know how different people approach the situation - to ignore or not to ignore?
How do you deal with people who are being inconsiderate
I like it."Is everything all right mate "
I like it.
And have you actually done this, Thornley? What comes back?
So sorry to hear this. I did not have any of these experiences, but I know what you mean by mean, self-absorbed people on the camino. I stayed in hotels for the most part and used the wash-o-mats near by the hotels which were a lot less time and easy to use. I also traveled with a friend so we didn't have the group dynamic (thank God!) Hope your future Camino journeys are a lot less stressful. BREATHE!!!VENT WARNING. If you don't want to hear it, pass on this post.
I'm in a bad mood and probably will delete this when I get over it.
But for now, I need to say it.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back has fallen.
It may seem like such a small thing, but . . .
Please.
If you don't understand how to work Spanish washing machines, DON'T TOUCH THEM!
They are MUCH different from our machines in the USA.
It is not uncommon for a cycle to be longer than 1 hour, unlike our 20 minute cycles.
Forcing the door open mid-cycle CAN BREAK THE MACHINE, resulting in expensive repairs or replacement.
I have heard complaints from SEVERAL owners about pilgrims breaking the machine.
Even with signs up in English, people ignore them.
WTF!???
One albergue (Santa Celia) closed their kitchen for at least one season because the washer had been forced open and broken twice. Who cares? The pilgrims coming in from Jaca who have no place to cook their food or wash their clothes!
I have just had the experience of a group leader and lodging OWNER asking that the pilgrims do not try to operate their machine. The owner had stayed an extra hour and a half waiting for a rude pilgrim who sat at the bar and drank instead knowing she was waiting to put his wash in.
She finally had to go make dinner for her own family. The group leader was given instructions on how to operate the BRAND NEW MACHINE and asked the pilgrims to please not touch the machine, but ask for help.
THEY AGREED.
The group leader starts the machine, goes to make a sandwich and comes back to find the washer door forced open. Luckily he got it to work again.
This is a place where we have developed a very good relationship with the owners. It would be a shame if that were ruined by spoiled, irresponsible tourists.
Rude, demanding, ignorant, and self-absorbed people are on the rise on the Camino, in my opinion.
I've heard several albergue owners comment that the money just isn't worth putting up with the foolishness.
Ours is a budget trip. I state in the handouts "This is a budget trip, not a five-star vacation." "We are not a company, we are pilgrims helping pilgrims." But I've discovered that many do not bother to read the material I send out. That assumption is based on the constant questions I get about material I covered in the hand outs.
For the amount of time I put in planning, making reservations, and emailing group members, I end up making less than minimum wage. You couldn't stay 5 nights in an American hotel for what people pay for 3 weeks paid lodging with us (and many other groups). And as many nice people as I've had on my trips, it seems there's always one who threatens to ruin it for everyone. I'm just about worn out.
Despite all the wonderful experiences I've had on the Camino (and there HAVE been more positive experiences than negative) in past years, I'm feeling "done."
- I have had a woman throw a tantrum and slam her suitcase all over antique furniture because she was tired.
- I've had a woman leave Orisson at 9 am and not get into Roncesvalles until 9:45 pm, never thinking about the rest of the group worrying sick if she'd fallen off a cliff. Everyone else arrived by 2 pm. This went on until I threatened to boot her off the trip and cancel her lodging reservations.
- I've had a man hang his dripping muddy wet raincoat on priceless antiques in a casa rural.
- One guy came in drunk late at night and started a blazing fire in the fireplace, then went to bed leaving it burning. The hostess and her help had to come down and put out the fire, leading to no more firewood being left for pilgrims.
- I watched an American man and his daughter START a fight and punch another pilgrim because the daughter lied about what was happening. If there had not been a mattress on the floor, the 2d man would have been dead, his head hit so hard on the floor.
- I've had a woman who insisted she spoke Spanish be extremely rude to taxi drivers and hotel workers, embarrassing me and making me want to crawl into a hole.
- I've had a woman scream in my face because she was unhappy about taxi service.
- I've had a woman call me in a panic and insist I hurry and get to a village because she couldn't find her lodging. I caught a taxi and found her drinking Sangria in the square with her friends - she stayed there until after 9 pm.
- I've had people insist on carrying 50 pounds too much, buy nick-nacks in nearly every village, increasing their weight, and refuse to pay pack transport, instead asking their fellow pilgrims to carry their excess weight, making other group members very uncomfortable to say no.
- After MANY warnings in the written material I send out, I've had several people get angry because I've told my group leaders NOT to carry their heavy packs up stairs. I can't risk my group leader getting hurt and people just refuse to pack light.
- I've had people complain the rooms were too small, too big, too hot, too cold, blah blah blah. The compared the pilgrim rooms at San Martin Pinario to jail cells. Really???
- I've had people LEAVE their room at SMP to go to a different hotel, and refuse to check out and leave the key for other pilgrims who needed the rooms. In other words, since they had "paid for" the room, even though they weren't using it, they wouldn't give up the key.
It's hard to smile and stay positive in the face of increasing rudeness and self-centeredness.
Where is the Camino Spirit?
Oh, it's there, but you have to peel back layers to see it much anymore, in my experience.
I do know myself.
I have learned I don't do well with "difficult people" - aka people who are SUPPOSED to be adults but act like spoiled children. They wear me down and I'm just past the age of wanting to deal with their crap.
So I should retire, I'm thinking.
I'll be glad when the Camino is no longer a fad and pilgrims instead of tourists return to walk.
But then, it's said you can never go back..
Shame, that...
Sorry for venting, but I needed to get it out.
I feel like starting a campaign or writing a book about all the BAD THINGS that happen on the Camino just to get the traffic down.
:::crawling into a hole:::
*****
I also need to add that I have met and led WONDERFUL people on the Camino.
Many more of those than the negative type.
Most of the people in my groups have been polite, fun-loving, respectful, spiritual, and kind PILGRIMS who I have thoroughly enjoyed. It just seems there's always that one or two in each group that tries to ruin it.
I'm grateful for the conversation this has opened up.
I will leave the post up.
Today is a better day!
Thanks all.
Have you thought of setting up an anti-Refugio? Sit on a porch with a paint gun and a BIG bowl of ice cream and terrorize the beastly pilgrim.Yeah... you may be right. . . it CAN be like the Mickey Mouse Club, depending on the people in the group. I have had WONDERFUL groups of PILGRIMS, as well, and probably more of those than the others. Unfortunately, it is "the others" who leave the bad taste in one's mouth.
And I'm editing this post because you are SO right, but what can be done about it?
It is now a tourist destination, and some of that is the fault of people like me.
I long for a simpler Camino with fewer people who are grateful for what they get.
It was interesting serving at San Anton, Rebecca, because THOSE were the types of pilgrims we met. I would give them the spiel, " We have no hot water, (they'd nod), no heat (they'd nod), and no internet (they'd run out the gate!)" The ones who stayed longed for a quiet, simple rest. They were the ones meant for San Anton, and all appreciated its beauty and simplicity. It was a sweet sweet experience.
I think I need to go on pilgrimage to do penance for all these sinful feelings about others.
Or maybe I'll just go eat a bowl of ice cream and buy a paint gun.
does an action require a specific intent to make it inconsiderate?
In the past week, I have had 3 people ask me if I'm leading a group in the Spring. They're very interested. I also have two 14 year old grandchildren who I'd like to take. I thought maybe not THIS Spring, but 2021, then realized that will be a Holy Year, right?
So . . . I'm mulling it over. . .
Far, far in the distance, I hear the call of the Camino again . . . faintly, but it's there...
I understand your concern for your mother. I went through the same with mine. She would not give up her own place until she fell and broke her pelvis Then, she had to come to my house and lots of rehab facilities.Well, it's over 3 years later and here I sit, once again reading over this thread and smiling.
God, I love you all so much!
Thank you for those who supported me so kindly and thanks to those who busted my chops too.
Mom is tottering around on a walker and a cane these days, living alone again. However, I'm stationed only 5 hours away, hoping not to get a call that she's fallen again. I'm still not comfortable getting so far away and taking the chance that I'd have to return suddenly if she falls or gets ill again. It's a little stressful being the only child left to care for her.
My Morton's Neuroma is better, though not completely healed. A new pair of shoes and good inserts have helped.
In the past week, I have had 3 people ask me if I'm leading a group in the Spring. They're very interested. I also have two 14 year old grandchildren who I'd like to take. I thought maybe not THIS Spring, but 2021, then realized that will be a Holy Year, right?
So . . . I'm mulling it over. . .
Far, far in the distance, I hear the call of the Camino again . . . faintly, but it's there...
I understand your concern for your mother. I went through the same with mine. She would not give up her own place until she fell and broke her pelvis Then, she had to come to my house and lots of rehab facilities.
I wish you and your mother well
Taking your grandchildren on the Camino would be fantastic. Let me know if you put a group together. I have 2 grandkids that want to go.
I just read about the proposed walk. Are you not thinking of posting about it in a new thread? It deserves to be shining on its own...thank you
I'm putting a group together for Holy Year - May 2021
I'm rebuilding my website today and tomorrow
www.anniewalkers.com
I've been expecting the bubble to burst since 2002 when I thought numbers might be peaking. Hasn't happened yet. I wouldn't hold your breath!Honestly, I'm hoping at some point, the Camino fury dies down and it becomes quieter again.
Sounds like each tour member needs to carry a tracker.From Orisson? In my experience that is a 3 to 6 hour walk.
You probably missed the fact that the said clothes had hair on them!!!!I have removed the hairdryers from our B&B rooms after finding them being used for drying clothes!
Well, that was a rant!I can totally relate. I guess we all had our moments when we annoyed others. I myself remember that I was embarrassed after I realised what I had just done on some occasions. However, sometimes you meet people who are so far off with no idea about how to interact with other people in a respectful manner.
I know several people who work in the hospitality&tour guiding industry and some of their stories are quite shocking. One friend of mine told me that it has been a downward spiral over the last 10 years. With people more and more feeling entitled to things ... entitled to perfect weather, entitled to everything being like home, entitled to the tour guides wiping their arses because they payed money for their vacation. Totally ignoring that the tour guide is actually a human being and probably earns a fraction of what they earn.
I myself did do some guiding / hospitality staff work during wintertime. I was staff at a wilderness camp, doing Northern Light tours, cooking and serving food, cleaning cabins, preparing the sauna and hot tub ... the full programme ... and some people were just so annoying that I had a hard time to control myself and not punching their faces really hard.
People spitting out food on the floor because they were not used to the traditional favours of the North. People burning the boots they rented as they put their feet almost into the fire. People who rearranged every single piece of furniture in their cabin and spilled the wax of several candles on the wooden floors and didn't even bother to say they were sorry.
But I should also mention that there were many kind and thankful people. I remember one very young rich (and you would think rather spoiled) girl from London, who got me as her private snowmobile driver. She had booked a more expensive cabin away from the wilderness camp and away from the rest of the group. So she needed to be driven back and forth every time she wanted something from her cabin and in between the activities. At night I would stay in a tiny hut next to her luxury cabin, as a guard and to be there in case of emergency. She was so thankful, and she felt so uneasy that she had this luxury cabin while I had to sleep in a place she probably considered a violation of basic human rights (I thought it was totally OK). She (and the majority of others) did not have this feeling of entitlement and arrogance. So, there are many counterexamples. Just mostly one remembers the few really annoying idiots ...
Well, that was a rant!
Not camino related but my current irk is people who don’t stand on the right of the escalator so that the left side remains free for those who want to walk up, or walk down. I practise being pleasant when I ask them to please stand on the right.... I guess we all have some things that trigger us ;-)
I think that may loosely be related to the 'driving on the wrong side of the road' and of course the jury is still out on WHICH side of the road IS the wrong oneNot camino related but my current irk is people who don’t stand on the right of the escalator so that the left side remains free for those who want to walk up, or walk down. I practise being pleasant when I ask them to please stand on the right.
My guess is that in a country where one drives on the wrong side of the road, one should stand on the wrong side of the escalator too, and leave the right side free for walkers.I think that may loosely be related to the 'driving on the wrong side of the road' and of course the jury is still out on WHICH side of the road IS the wrong one
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